It's Not You, BioShock 2, It's Me

[Monshroud]

Let me preface this by saying I absolutely love Bioshock, and I am currently I think about 1/2 way through Bioshock 2. (In Siren Alley)

What I see Susan talking about is something similar a lot of people said about the 2nd Matrix movie. Many people were blown away by The Matrix, it was an interesting idea, had good characters, some great action, the whole 'bullet time' effect, and introduced a really cool sci-fi world. Years later the 2nd movie came out and we wanted that same level of 'Wow!', but there wasn't one. There was nothing 'new' to discover, it was just the continuation of what we know. Sure there are a few new faces, but there really isn't anything 'new' to evoke that sense of wonder.

So far, Bioshock 2 is similar in those regards. We know and understand the world. Sure things are more run down now, there are some new faces, but we are largely just experiencing the same world a second time. There are some various gameplay changes, but not so many that things feel different, and that's a good thing I think. Where there was Ryan, there is now Lamb. Where we had Atlas, we have Sinclair. Where we had Dr. Steinman and Cohen, we have Grace and the Preacher guy.

Overall so far (since I haven't beaten the game) I think 2k has created a great continuation of the world they created. Susan, I would tell you to set your DVR to record the Olympics and see what new things you can discover about the world of Rapture.

 

[Jared]

I actually somewhat liked how they kept it the same. Because, it is as mentioned, still keeps all the charm, all the familiarity and all the epicness the first game brought us!

 

[Citrus]

Bioshock 2 improved the gameplay of the original Bioshock by quite a bit, so you'd think it would be a better game.

But it's true; the spark is gone. I didn't play the original Bioshock for its mediocre gameplay, but for the atmosphere and the story, which I think Bioshock 2 is lacking. The story isn't as tight (or rather, it's tighter, but just isn't as good), there is no more mystery to Rapture, and the whole moral choice gimmick still comes off as strained, even if they did try to make it more relevant this time around. I didn't like the ending either, to be honest. I felt like it was trying to tug at my heartstrings, but it failed and wound up being pretty corny. And this is from someone who actually liked the ending to the original Bioshock (the good ending, that is).

Anyway, my point is that Bioshock 2 improved the gameplay of the original Bioshock but was a step backwards in terms of story and atmosphere, which was Bioshock's main appeal to begin with.

 

[ZeroDotZero]

Maybe not as heartbreaking as Saw Masha Today, but you'll get a nasty shock in the form of an Audio Diary on the corpse of a Big Daddy in Fontaine Futuristics.

 

[The Thief]

I really should have seen this coming, myself. Bioshock has a place in my heart, but Bioshock 2 sits on my shelf. It felt like a well made game, but it didn't feel new. I could force myself to finish, but I'd rather replay Mass Effect 2. I'll get back to it eventually, once the mood seems right, but humanity is in danger and there are collectors to fight.

 

[Monshroud]

In regard to the "terribly depressing audio log", there is one that's almost as sad as "Saw Masha Today". I don't remember his name, but there are a few logs left by a man trying to find his missing daughter, who happens to have been (SHOCKING!) turned into a Little Sister. Anyway, eventually you

Would this be the Mark Meltzer logs? This was actually a great tie in to what 2k did for the lead-in to the game. If you visited www.somethinginthesea.com in the months before Bioshock 2's release you were following the story of Mark and played various puzzle games to uncover story about Bioshock 2, and even about the creation of Rapture. The site is still up and you can see everything that is there.

 

[Sight Unseen]

The second half of the game IMO come quite close to Bioshock 1's level of storytelling and immersion. Gil Alexander is an awesome character, and the final stage of the game is just as awesome as the final stage of Bioshock 1 was. Play through the whole game before you judge it as a hollow expansion, because the story really picks up partway through the game, in my opinion anyway.

 

[BlueInkAlchemist]

While I don't disagree with you, Susan, and this might just be a virtue of how I play the game, but for me there are some moments in Bioshock 2 that are incredibly downright heartwarming as well as being a lot of fun that weren't present in the original.

 

[Xocrates]

Personally I prefer Bioshock 2, but recognize the first one as the better game.

I find that 2 is better paced, and more consistent in its story, up to the much more satisfying ending than the first one.

The problem is that it never reaches the highs of the first (but it never gets as bad as its lows either). The sense of discovery is all but gone, and none of the characters are as good as, say, Andrew Ryan or Sander Cohen (I think it says a lot about the first Bioshock that Fort Frolic, one of the most celebrated levels, was nearly irrelevant to the overall plot).

 

[carpenteria]

It's been said in various places that as a game Bioshock 2 is vastly superior to it's original. Using plasmids and weapons at the same time is much better, encouraging you to use both as opposed to favouring one or the other.

Anyway that's not the point. It's not the game, it's the emotional attachment you have to the story. I think there are 2 main issues; The first is the fact that there isn't a great deal new to show off, at least nowhere near the first game where EVERYTHING was new. When you arn't experienceing somthing new every level you get the feeling of "been here done that."

The other issue is that in the first, you wern't told who "you" were. The fact was, ala Half-Life, for all intents and purposes the player IS the protaganist in every sense. While there is some unknowns about Delta (and I'm not quite finished so I could be wrong) the fact is you walk into his shoes with a great deal of pre-conceived notions about Big Daddies and Rapture in general. As far as I was concerned when I first started the game, Big Daddies, while usually unfortunate victims, are pretty single minded and straightforward. A lot harder to eke out a connection with that in mind as opposed to a clearly human charecter with a blank slate.

Could change my mind by the time I'm finished though. Still a damn fine game, and look forward to finishing it.

 

[UnravThreads]

BioShock 2... I finished it the day it came out (~6hrs) and whilst I thoroughly enjoyed the game, I was left unsure what to think about it. For me BioShock 2 expanded on BioShock 1 and its story more than anything else - You learnt about the trigger phrase a bit more via audio diaries, you felt the effects of BioShock 1's conclusion... I'm going to spoiler tag the rest of my thoughts just in case.

Spoiler

Truth be told, I was expecting too much. With BioShock it was all new and you didn't know who to trust and especially once Fontaine revealed himself you couldn't trust anyone (except maybe Tenenbaum).
With BioShock 2 I was expecting this to come through. I expected people to turn on me, to try to kill me - but they didn't. Of the three people you kill/save, I only killed Alex the Great because it seemed like the right thing to do. He wasn't who he was when he came to Rapture - He'd become something horrible and it was clear to see he was insane and had to be killed for his own good. There was no really big plot twist (or none that I noticed) with the most surprising thing, for me, being the section where you play as a Little Sister near the end of the game.

 

[Wolfram23]

It's been said in various places that as a game Bioshock 2 is vastly superior to it's original. Using plasmids and weapons at the same time is much better, encouraging you to use both as opposed to favouring one or the other.

Anyway that's not the point. It's not the game, it's the emotional attachment you have to the story. I think there are 2 main issues; The first is the fact that there isn't a great deal new to show off, at least nowhere near the first game where EVERYTHING was new. When you arn't experienceing somthing new every level you get the feeling of "been here done that."

The other issue is that in the first, you wern't told who "you" were. The fact was, ala Half-Life, for all intents and purposes the player IS the protaganist in every sense. While there is some unknowns about Delta (and I'm not quite finished so I could be wrong) the fact is you walk into his shoes with a great deal of pre-conceived notions about Big Daddies and Rapture in general. As far as I was concerned when I first started the game, Big Daddies, while usually unfortunate victims, are pretty single minded and straightforward. A lot harder to eke out a connection with that in mind as opposed to a clearly human charecter with a blank slate.

Could change my mind by the time I'm finished though. Still a damn fine game, and look forward to finishing it.

This is true, but I found that those pre-conceived notions are partially what made it even better, because I think it's pretty obvious from the outset that you're not a normal Big Daddie. By the end of the game you find out the history of Delta, Big Daddies, and Big Sisters. The first game was about the failure of Rapture and of Ryan's dream but this game is almost exclusively about the sisters and the daddies and how it all ties into Rapture (well and the whole Ryan vs Lamb, self vs utopian stuff but it's all related).
Let's just say the last area of the game and the end of the story is very, very interesting. Although the actual ending may be dissapointing to many, but I won't go into further details.


And Coldalarm: you beat it in 6hrs? Wow... that's why I didn't play on easy. Or medium. I probably took 10-12 hrs to beat it. Can't really say but it took several days and at least 3-4hrs per.

 

[Lord Beautiful]

Maybe it's just me, and I'm not trying to start anything, but I didn't feel anything so fantastic with Bioshock.

I never found it too amazing to blow my socks off (nice phrase, eh?) although it was good.
Maybe it's just my lack of perception, but Bioshock almost felt cliche outside of the story.

I'm in agreement with you here. The game was good, by all means, but not particularly great, and especially not excellent. The art style and architecture was somewhat interesting, but it didn't have any notable effect on me.

I look at it like this. BioShock is kind of like a decent cake where the icing forms a piece of abstract art that everyone but you seems to really enjoy. They're focused on the icing, proclaiming this cake extremely tasty simply because this art is so "thought-provoking", while you're actually eating the damn thing thinking,This cake isn't bad, but I've had better.

 

[carpenteria]

ErdyErdyErdy

This is true, but I found that those pre-conceived notions are partially what made it even better, because I think it's pretty obvious from the outset that you're not a normal Big Daddie. By the end of the game you find out the history of Delta, Big Daddies, and Big Sisters. The first game was about the failure of Rapture and of Ryan's dream but this game is almost exclusively about the sisters and the daddies and how it all ties into Rapture (well and the whole Ryan vs Lamb, self vs utopian stuff but it's all related).
Let's just say the last area of the game and the end of the story is very, very interesting. Although the actual ending may be dissapointing to many, but I won't go into further details.

Well thats good to know. It would seem that most of the positive comments seem to stem from those who have actually finished so I should probably get to that then.

If only there wasnt 8 hours of work between now and home...

 

[Tiamat666]

I have to side with the people who don't feel so grand about BioShock at all. It's certainly a good game - it's a decent, atmospheric shooter with a storyline and unique setting. But I had a hard time accepting it at first. I hate clowns and I hate circusses, and something about Rapture and the villains there reminds me alot of both.

I had alot of moments where I felt the game was trying really hard to scare me or making something seem dramatic, but it just didn't work out. There was simply too much sillyness and ridicule in the enemies, the sounds, the look of the world, for me to take it seriously. I just don't dig into crazy women in skirts wearing masks attacking me with crowbars. I guess it makes sense in the context of the storyline, but they could have worked on the graphics to make it look more presentable. Considering how "serious" the story is, they should have tried harder not to make The NPCs look like ridiculous cartoon characters.

I had to force myself to continue past the first few levels, because the game seemed too silly for me. I have to admit that it got better later in the game and eventually I found it quite enjoyable, but nothing jaw-dropping as everyone had led me to expect.

And I don't get how people call this a sequel to System Shock. Having a few minigame-puzzles doesn't make it anything like System Shock. BioShock is still a shooter. System Shock is a cyberpunk 3D adventure game.

 

[carpenteria]

I hate clowns and I hate circusses, and something about Rapture and the villains there reminds me alot of both.

I guess you didnt get great savings from the Circus of Value then?

 

[Susan Arendt]

I have the feeling that BioShock 2 will be a more consistent game, maintaining the same high quality throughout, as opposed to BioShock, which had some genius levels, and then some real duds. But the highs of BioShock 2 won't be as high as those of BioShock.

That's my guess, anyway. Have to play more to know for certain.

 

[Tiamat666]

I hate clowns and I hate circusses, and something about Rapture and the villains there reminds me alot of both.

I guess you didnt get great savings from the Circus of Value then?

That's actually a perfect example for what I mean. The storyline is serious, the events tragic, yet everything is made to appear silly and ridiculous.
Why on earth do machines that sell items have to be called "Circus of Value" with a clown poster and that silly voice greeting you every time you activate it?

This conflict of what the game tries to be runs through the whole thing and to me, ruins what could have been a much better game.

 

[Sunrider]

Maybe it's just me, and I'm not trying to start anything, but I didn't feel anything so fantastic with Bioshock.

I never found it too amazing to blow my socks off (nice phrase, eh?) although it was good.
Maybe it's just my lack of perception, but Bioshock almost felt cliche outside of the story.

My feelings exactly.