Answer my question. When were you talking about? When you said it was working better.
It's ok to be angry about capitalism
- Thread starter XsjadoBlaydette
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You replied to my post to someone else concerning capitalism and outsourcing. And I said capitalism still works when you can't outsource (labor to poor countries). Thus, you don't need such exploitation for it to work.
You said it worked at a certain time before all that international outsourcing was happening.
When? When was it working better? Answer the question. Pre-1900s? Pre-1950s?
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You guys refer to current capitalism as late-stage capitalism, and hate it for some reason. Are you guys saying early-stage capitalism doesn't work either?
Also, what better system do you have that's better than capitalism?
That's some nice avoiding answering the question you've got there.
"late-stage capitalism" is an aspirational goal; if it is late stage now, it can be gone in the near future.
"doesn't work" is a misnomer. Capitalism works. Serfdom works. Slavery works. But for whom? Capitalism works for the employer. Serfdom works for the lord. Slavery works for the master.
communism. it works for the people.
I didn't call it that. Now when were you talking about? You were the one who made the claim that it was working better at some point.
Capitalism doesn't need exploitation to work. You can have all the employee protections and no exploiting of poor countries and capitalism still functions just the same. You also said capitalism isn't the high bar people think it is when it's better than the alternatives.
Capitalism doesn't need exploitation is my point. Anything can use exploitation. And, again no, communism doesn't work.
There was less exploitation of poor countries and less monopolistic companies before; hence, it was working better. It's also on people to a degree, like why did everyone buy from Amazon to make them into what they are, didn't you'll notice what they were doing? I did and very rarely bought from them. Now, it's kinda hard not to buy from Amazon for certain things and even when I go to some store's actual website to buy something, it still comes in an Amazon package...
When was there less exploitation? Stop just saying "in the before times". When? When the British Empire went to war against China to force them to import British opium? When the East India Company imposed a shipping monopoly and violently dominated the colonies? When the Transatlantic Slave Trade was in full swing? When?
I literally gave an example of a friend making pottery for his job and couldn't after NAFTA because that labor got outsourced. There's so much more outsourced labor now than there was not that long ago (and probably during your lifetime).
I fail to see how that example shows a time in the past, before globalised supply chains, that capitalism was working much better. In fact, to the naked eye, that anecdote looks completely pointless.
Well, if you go back to the 1400s, you don't have global companies exploiting people and whole countries. At that time it doesn't get much bigger than the Fugger for capitalists. I mean, the East India trading company was founded in 1600 and i struggle to remember anything earlier of similar size and influence that can reasonably described as capitalist.
Globalized (well, continent-spanning) supply chains are, of course, older.
Sure, but it's a stretch to consider the 1400s capitalist as we understand the term. Capitalism as we describe it emerged in the 16th-18th centuries.
Capitalism is by definition exploitative, just like slavery and serfdom. If it weren't, there would be no surplus-- no profit-- and little point to owning private property to be worked by others. Which is to say productive assets like factories, farm fields, quarries, mines, and so forth: things which capitalists own and workers operate to make the capitalists rich. Capitalism is inherently exploitative; where there isn't exploitation there isn't capitalism. There is something else.
Well, it is still the time of the Hansa which certainly had some related attributes. But yes, it was not exactly common. More here and there are communities/structures/organisation, that look capitalist if you squint.
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