It's "that" Skyrim topic again...

[Dyan]

Okay so I know this topic has been done to death, but I just gotta do it. The endless argument over Stormcloaks VS Imperials. But one thing I've been noticing recently. People say that one of the Stormcloaks' biggest faults is that Ulfric is a puppet of the Thalmor. IMO what the Thalmor want is for the war to go on for as long as possible until both sides too weak to resist and then, BAM! Two birds with one stone. But as long as any side ends the conflict quickly enough then the Thalmor have a problem on their hands.

(Any other faults of the stormcloaks, racism, nationalism etc are free to be criticized however)

 

[Hades]

I think the Thalmor would be pretty happy to have their biggest rival lose a province thanks to their plots. It may be less profiteble then both sides weakening each other but the empire losing Skyrim seems like a clear victory for the Thalmor. The way i see it the point still stands. Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.

 

[Dyan]

Another thing I was thinking about: Does it say anywhere in the game how powerful the Thalmor currently are? Most lore says that the Great War catastrophic on both sides, but I haven't seen anything about their current strength.

 

[Dandark]

I believe they are still pretty powerful. If I remember rightly they had a big army ready to finish off the empire but it would have been costly so instead they agreed to a truce. However they still had that army and I imagine they have only increased their strength since then.


Still whenever I make a stormcloak character I like to imagine that he will pretty much solo the Thalmor with the voice and dragon companions. Completely unrealistic but fun to roleplay anyway. Only problem is I find it really hard to sympathize with some of the stormcloaks worse elements and I like the imperial Jarls more.

 

[Doom972]

I actually think that it might be for the best if the Thalmor just take over. The empire is weak in its current state (It's basically just High Rock, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil), and the current ruling Mede dynasty doesn't have the divine right that the Septims had. Skyrim would be very weak as an independent nation, and won't be able to resist oppose the elves' numbers and skill with magic.

I think the Thalmor would be pretty happy to have their biggest rival lose a province thanks to their plots. It may be less profiteble then both sides weakening each other but the empire losing Skyrim seems like a clear victory for the Thalmor. The way i see it the point still stands. Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.

It does make sense, but you can actually find a journal in the Thalmor embassy that approves what the OP said.

 

[Hades]

I actually think that it might be for the best if the Thalmor just take over. The empire is weak in its current state (It's basically just High Rock, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil), and the current ruling Mede dynasty doesn't have the divine right that the Septims had. Skyrim would be very weak as an independent nation, and won't be able to resist oppose the elves' numbers and skill with magic.

I think the Thalmor would be pretty happy to have their biggest rival lose a province thanks to their plots. It may be less profiteble then both sides weakening each other but the empire losing Skyrim seems like a clear victory for the Thalmor. The way i see it the point still stands. Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.

It does make sense, but you can actually find a journal in the Thalmor embassy that approves what the OP said.

For the better if the Nazi elves take over? Somehow I don't think they will rule more justly then the Mede empire.

Doesn't the document say the civil war continuing is just the desired state of affairs and thus a quick end must be avoided. Even if both sides weakening each other is the best outcome the empire losing a province would be a very nice consolation prize in the case of a quick Stormcloak victory.

 

[Doom972]

I actually think that it might be for the best if the Thalmor just take over. The empire is weak in its current state (It's basically just High Rock, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil), and the current ruling Mede dynasty doesn't have the divine right that the Septims had. Skyrim would be very weak as an independent nation, and won't be able to resist oppose the elves' numbers and skill with magic.

I think the Thalmor would be pretty happy to have their biggest rival lose a province thanks to their plots. It may be less profiteble then both sides weakening each other but the empire losing Skyrim seems like a clear victory for the Thalmor. The way i see it the point still stands. Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.

It does make sense, but you can actually find a journal in the Thalmor embassy that approves what the OP said.

For the better if the Nazi elves take over? Somehow I don't think they will rule more justly then the Mede empire.

Doesn't the document say the civil war continuing is just the desired state of affairs and thus a quick end must be avoided. Even if both sides weakening each other is the best outcome the empire losing a province would be a very nice consolation prize in the case of a quick Stormcloak victory.

Nazis? I don't really see anything resembling a concentration camp, or even a hint of it in text/dialogue. Is there something I missed?
They just have an inquisition-like organization that forbids the worship of Talos. All that it means is that Talos worshipping has to be done in secret. It's not fair, but it's not very different to what the humans did when they conquered the old Aldmeri Empire, if I recall correctly.

EDIT: If you want to reply to this post, read the rest of my posts on this topic.

 

[Dyan]

I actually think that it might be for the best if the Thalmor just take over. The empire is weak in its current state (It's basically just High Rock, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil), and the current ruling Mede dynasty doesn't have the divine right that the Septims had. Skyrim would be very weak as an independent nation, and won't be able to resist oppose the elves' numbers and skill with magic.

I think the Thalmor would be pretty happy to have their biggest rival lose a province thanks to their plots. It may be less profiteble then both sides weakening each other but the empire losing Skyrim seems like a clear victory for the Thalmor. The way i see it the point still stands. Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.

It does make sense, but you can actually find a journal in the Thalmor embassy that approves what the OP said.

For the better if the Nazi elves take over? Somehow I don't think they will rule more justly then the Mede empire.

Doesn't the document say the civil war continuing is just the desired state of affairs and thus a quick end must be avoided. Even if both sides weakening each other is the best outcome the empire losing a province would be a very nice consolation prize in the case of a quick Stormcloak victory.

Nazis? I don't really see anything resembling a concentration camp, or even a hint of it in text/dialogue. Is there something I missed?
They just have an inquisition-like organization that forbids the worship of Talos. All that it means is that Talos worshipping has to be done in secret. It's not fair, but it's not very different to what the humans did when they conquered the old Aldmeri Empire, if I recall correctly.

Well there is their secret agenda to end the world and return everyone (the elves) to Aetherius. The details are kinda fuzzy, but the banning of talos tied into that agenda.

 

[Scott Rothman]

They're both super evil, especially once you read into the whole forsworn backstory.

 

[Doom972]

I actually think that it might be for the best if the Thalmor just take over. The empire is weak in its current state (It's basically just High Rock, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil), and the current ruling Mede dynasty doesn't have the divine right that the Septims had. Skyrim would be very weak as an independent nation, and won't be able to resist oppose the elves' numbers and skill with magic.

I think the Thalmor would be pretty happy to have their biggest rival lose a province thanks to their plots. It may be less profiteble then both sides weakening each other but the empire losing Skyrim seems like a clear victory for the Thalmor. The way i see it the point still stands. Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.

It does make sense, but you can actually find a journal in the Thalmor embassy that approves what the OP said.

For the better if the Nazi elves take over? Somehow I don't think they will rule more justly then the Mede empire.

Doesn't the document say the civil war continuing is just the desired state of affairs and thus a quick end must be avoided. Even if both sides weakening each other is the best outcome the empire losing a province would be a very nice consolation prize in the case of a quick Stormcloak victory.

Nazis? I don't really see anything resembling a concentration camp, or even a hint of it in text/dialogue. Is there something I missed?
They just have an inquisition-like organization that forbids the worship of Talos. All that it means is that Talos worshipping has to be done in secret. It's not fair, but it's not very different to what the humans did when they conquered the old Aldmeri Empire, if I recall correctly.

Well there is their secret agenda to end the world and return everyone (the elves) to Aetherius. The details are kinda fuzzy, but the banning of talos tied into that agenda.

I never encountered this. Where in the game does it say that? Also, a plot to destroy the world sounds more like an over-the-top cartoon villain than nazis. It's so over the top that it's just silly.

 

[SanguiniusMagnificum]

I actually think that it might be for the best if the Thalmor just take over. The empire is weak in its current state (It's basically just High Rock, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil), and the current ruling Mede dynasty doesn't have the divine right that the Septims had. Skyrim would be very weak as an independent nation, and won't be able to resist oppose the elves' numbers and skill with magic.

I think the Thalmor would be pretty happy to have their biggest rival lose a province thanks to their plots. It may be less profiteble then both sides weakening each other but the empire losing Skyrim seems like a clear victory for the Thalmor. The way i see it the point still stands. Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.

It does make sense, but you can actually find a journal in the Thalmor embassy that approves what the OP said.

For the better if the Nazi elves take over? Somehow I don't think they will rule more justly then the Mede empire.

Doesn't the document say the civil war continuing is just the desired state of affairs and thus a quick end must be avoided. Even if both sides weakening each other is the best outcome the empire losing a province would be a very nice consolation prize in the case of a quick Stormcloak victory.

Nazis? I don't really see anything resembling a concentration camp, or even a hint of it in text/dialogue. Is there something I missed?
They just have an inquisition-like organization that forbids the worship of Talos. All that it means is that Talos worshipping has to be done in secret. It's not fair, but it's not very different to what the humans did when they conquered the old Aldmeri Empire, if I recall correctly.

Well there is their secret agenda to end the world and return everyone (the elves) to Aetherius. The details are kinda fuzzy, but the banning of talos tied into that agenda.

I never encountered this. Where in the game does it say that? Also, a plot to destroy the world sounds more like an over-the-top cartoon villain than nazis. It's so over the top that it's just silly.

They believe in the supremacy of Mer, and specifically in the superiority of the Altmer (High Elves). They want to return society back to "the good ol' days" before the First Empire when elves (Ayleids) ruled and enslaved the humans and beastfolk. So yeah, the Nazi comparisons are there. And it would NOT be better if they started to run the show, believe me...

 

[Doom972]

I actually think that it might be for the best if the Thalmor just take over. The empire is weak in its current state (It's basically just High Rock, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil), and the current ruling Mede dynasty doesn't have the divine right that the Septims had. Skyrim would be very weak as an independent nation, and won't be able to resist oppose the elves' numbers and skill with magic.

I think the Thalmor would be pretty happy to have their biggest rival lose a province thanks to their plots. It may be less profiteble then both sides weakening each other but the empire losing Skyrim seems like a clear victory for the Thalmor. The way i see it the point still stands. Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.

It does make sense, but you can actually find a journal in the Thalmor embassy that approves what the OP said.

For the better if the Nazi elves take over? Somehow I don't think they will rule more justly then the Mede empire.

Doesn't the document say the civil war continuing is just the desired state of affairs and thus a quick end must be avoided. Even if both sides weakening each other is the best outcome the empire losing a province would be a very nice consolation prize in the case of a quick Stormcloak victory.

Nazis? I don't really see anything resembling a concentration camp, or even a hint of it in text/dialogue. Is there something I missed?
They just have an inquisition-like organization that forbids the worship of Talos. All that it means is that Talos worshipping has to be done in secret. It's not fair, but it's not very different to what the humans did when they conquered the old Aldmeri Empire, if I recall correctly.

Well there is their secret agenda to end the world and return everyone (the elves) to Aetherius. The details are kinda fuzzy, but the banning of talos tied into that agenda.

I never encountered this. Where in the game does it say that? Also, a plot to destroy the world sounds more like an over-the-top cartoon villain than nazis. It's so over the top that it's just silly.

They believe in the supremacy of Mer, and specifically in the superiority of the Altmer (High Elves). They want to return society back to "the good ol' days" before the First Empire when elves (Ayleids) ruled and enslaved the humans and beastfolk. So yeah, the Nazi comparisons are there. And it would NOT be better if they started to run the show, believe me...

What made the nazis the scum that they are, is the holocaust. Unless the elves decide to systematically kill all the other races, I can't say that they are that evil. We never get to see how things look within the Thalmor territories. You could be right, but until I have a way to learn about it through the games or lore, I can't say that there's any evidence suggesting that.

As for the Thalmor not being better rulers: The ideals of real-life modern societies aren't implemented in this world. It's still a world of masters and servants. Without a strong government, Tamriel would only continue to deteriorate. The Empire is weak and definitely can't control its own lands, which is why it keeps losing them.

 

[Lopende Paddo]

never thought godwins law would apply to a thread about skyrim but here we are.

OT: I bow to my thalmor masters!

 

[Flaery]

My opinion of the Imperials is the same as my opinion of the NCR or Camarilla; I can sympathize with the people who hold disdain for them, but I never thought said people could run things any better.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

I really don't like the Stormcloaks. I can summarise the points as follows:

- They're xenophobic. They constantly talk about how their way of life is being destroyed, when I feel like reminding them that they live in the snowy arse-end of Tamriel. Quite frankly, if there wasn't a war on no one would care.

- They're hypocrites. They complain that the worship of Talos has been outlawed, when they did far worse to the Forsworn in the name of good-old Nord values (I know it wasn't the Stormcloaks themselves that did that ,but Nords in general).

- Ulfric Stormcloak's justification for killing the King (a rather young King, at that) boils down to "Because I could."

- Ulfric acts like a petulant child at the negotiation at High Hrothgar. First he tries to tell the Imperials who they can and can't bring to the meeting. Then he asks for a major city in exchange for a tiny one. And if you side with the Imperials on both of these issues, he whines that you're being unfair to the Stormcloaks.

- Apparently Ulfric is so self-centred he's okay with having an entire army name themselves after him.

I'll admit that most of my problems with the Stormcloaks stem from Ulfric Stormcloak being an idiot and a Thalmor plant as well. But since he seems to be placed as the charismatic figure head and leader on everything they do, I think it's fair to judge them for that.

 

[Dandark]

I actually think that it might be for the best if the Thalmor just take over. The empire is weak in its current state (It's basically just High Rock, Skyrim, and Cyrodiil), and the current ruling Mede dynasty doesn't have the divine right that the Septims had. Skyrim would be very weak as an independent nation, and won't be able to resist oppose the elves' numbers and skill with magic.

I think the Thalmor would be pretty happy to have their biggest rival lose a province thanks to their plots. It may be less profiteble then both sides weakening each other but the empire losing Skyrim seems like a clear victory for the Thalmor. The way i see it the point still stands. Ulfric is playing right into the Thalmor's hands.

It does make sense, but you can actually find a journal in the Thalmor embassy that approves what the OP said.

For the better if the Nazi elves take over? Somehow I don't think they will rule more justly then the Mede empire.

Doesn't the document say the civil war continuing is just the desired state of affairs and thus a quick end must be avoided. Even if both sides weakening each other is the best outcome the empire losing a province would be a very nice consolation prize in the case of a quick Stormcloak victory.

Nazis? I don't really see anything resembling a concentration camp, or even a hint of it in text/dialogue. Is there something I missed?
They just have an inquisition-like organization that forbids the worship of Talos. All that it means is that Talos worshipping has to be done in secret. It's not fair, but it's not very different to what the humans did when they conquered the old Aldmeri Empire, if I recall correctly.

Well there is their secret agenda to end the world and return everyone (the elves) to Aetherius. The details are kinda fuzzy, but the banning of talos tied into that agenda.

I never encountered this. Where in the game does it say that? Also, a plot to destroy the world sounds more like an over-the-top cartoon villain than nazis. It's so over the top that it's just silly.

It's part of the more hidden lore that most people don't know exists. Im no expert but I think it goes along the lines of Elves used to be like demigods but degenerated to the state they are in now with high elves being the closest to their former glory. They want to destroy reality so that they return to their former state, how that works is another topic.
Their are a bunch of towers(Some are actual towers, some are not and it's just a figure of speech) that hold up the reality that is mundus(The mortal realm). The thalmor want to destroy these. Ulfric stormcloak unwittingly destroyed one in Skyrim by dividing the Nords and starting a civil war which is pretty much the best result the Thalmor could have wanted from the banning of Talos.

 

[RJ 17]

It's been a good long while since I've played Skyrim, but as I recall I didn't make my choice based on the politics. To me Ulfric came across as a colossal dick so I gleefully looked forward to killing him. I did the Civil War missions last, so I was already a high-powered mage by the time I did it. Just strolled on into the castle, launched some massive fireballs, summoned a blizzard, and the room was cleared in no time.

Apparently his ghost possessed all the nobles that end up taking the place over, because every time I walked in there all I got were sneers and insults from the people that I had apparently helped(?). So I decided to hop up onto the banquet table and use the massive kerplosion that is the Master Fire spell and sent all their bodies flying back against the wall.......only to find out that every one of them had the Immortal Plot Armor equipped. Yeah, it was disheartening, but it was worth it just to see the effect of that fire spell executed in the middle of an unsuspecting crowd. :3

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Does it have to be one or the other? I never played the storyline quests, so I don't know. Can you just make yourself king or something?

You can't, but you can completely ignore the civil war aspect of the game.