It's Time To Forgive George Lucas
- Thread starter MovieBob
- Start date
I found out that Star Wars episode 1 was coming out 2 years before it actually did, and so I set to work, I watched 1 episode of Star Wars EVERY SINGLE DAY for 2 YEARS......at the end of it I could recite the thing backwards if I had to, I could translate each one of R2D2s Lines into English without even thinking, I was a Star Wars expert by all accounts, and then when the day finally came that the film released, and I went with my father and mother to witness this momentous event, what did I get? SHAT ON!!!!! that's what!!!! there were SO SO SO many loop holes I couldn't stop counting them!!!!! the story was, well just not there, the special effects, Meh they were good, but not good enough to carry the film, and yes I realize that was a large part of the hype when episode IV was released, but that was never what I loved, I fell in love with the story of a young orphan's journey from farm boy to Jedi Master.
and the WORST THING about this, the thing that made it TRULY unforgivable, was that fact that we now had 3 crappy PREQUELS. NOW when I have kids, and I try to instill upon them the same love of star wars that I grew up with, it won't happen, because they will be young and impressionable. And if I don't show them the prequels someone else will. They will look at the superior special effects and instantly prefer episodes 1 2 and 3 because they will be too young to reach for the story. They will see Darth Vader, not as the menacing embodiment EVIL he once was and instead as a poor kid who was forced to grow up too fast and lost his loved one. They will not be shocked upon seeing Episode V for the first time with the ever famous lines "No Luke, I AM your father." because they will not see it as a mystery. they will be confused and possibly disgusted by the lustful looks that Luke gives Leah in Episode IV and even more so by the kiss she gives him in Episode V. and Finally the part where Luke asks Leah about her " REAL mother" and she goes on about her beauty, will be such BS they won't be able to understand why one twin who is five seconds old will remember her mother but the other that is eight seconds old does not.
THIS is why I and those like me will NEVER forgive George Lucas. Plain and Simple.
and the WORST THING about this, the thing that made it TRULY unforgivable, was that fact that we now had 3 crappy PREQUELS. NOW when I have kids, and I try to instill upon them the same love of star wars that I grew up with, it won't happen, because they will be young and impressionable. And if I don't show them the prequels someone else will. They will look at the superior special effects and instantly prefer episodes 1 2 and 3 because they will be too young to reach for the story. They will see Darth Vader, not as the menacing embodiment EVIL he once was and instead as a poor kid who was forced to grow up too fast and lost his loved one. They will not be shocked upon seeing Episode V for the first time with the ever famous lines "No Luke, I AM your father." because they will not see it as a mystery. they will be confused and possibly disgusted by the lustful looks that Luke gives Leah in Episode IV and even more so by the kiss she gives him in Episode V. and Finally the part where Luke asks Leah about her " REAL mother" and she goes on about her beauty, will be such BS they won't be able to understand why one twin who is five seconds old will remember her mother but the other that is eight seconds old does not.
THIS is why I and those like me will NEVER forgive George Lucas. Plain and Simple.
That was amazingly well written, and a good read all around.
It's not as though Star Wars is just going to go away. The prequels that many hated were still loved by some. They were by no means flops in terms of the box office, and it would be pretty shocking to not see some more films within the Star Wars universe.
Will it have anything to do with the original story? Who knows. But that doesn't really matter much to the vast majority of the population, as long as the movies are good.
It's not as though Star Wars is just going to go away. The prequels that many hated were still loved by some. They were by no means flops in terms of the box office, and it would be pretty shocking to not see some more films within the Star Wars universe.
Will it have anything to do with the original story? Who knows. But that doesn't really matter much to the vast majority of the population, as long as the movies are good.
Oooukay, even if I go along with Bob and forgive Lucas for SW 1-3 I can still hate him for the the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, right? Haha, just kidding! I don't really hate Ol' Georgie!
I just wish the senile old ass would stop making more mediocre movies.
P.S. I don't really get all this "LEAVE GEORGE LUCAS ALONE!!" business, it's not like the poor man is down on his luck right now. In fact, if I confess to being a dirty commie dog, will I be officially allowed to hate that filthy imperialist swine?
I just wish the senile old ass would stop making more mediocre movies.
P.S. I don't really get all this "LEAVE GEORGE LUCAS ALONE!!" business, it's not like the poor man is down on his luck right now. In fact, if I confess to being a dirty commie dog, will I be officially allowed to hate that filthy imperialist swine?
I don't think the angst over the horrible prequel movies really has that much to do with anger directed at George Lucas as a person. It's more a feeling of betrayal - that we had all concluded that Mr. Lucas is a really great film-maker, only to be handed significant evidence to the contrary.
Now George Lucas might be a brilliant technological innovator or buisness director - but he's a terrible movie director. It's possible that given the right enviornment he can contribute great things to a movie, but the fact that he himself is ignorant of his own strengths and weaknesses remains a serious problem.
It's just that decades long misguided hero worship takes even more decades to redact. We all overestimated George and some people get really defensive about admitting that. Maybe he'll once again prove helpful to making a movie again - we'll see.
Now George Lucas might be a brilliant technological innovator or buisness director - but he's a terrible movie director. It's possible that given the right enviornment he can contribute great things to a movie, but the fact that he himself is ignorant of his own strengths and weaknesses remains a serious problem.
It's just that decades long misguided hero worship takes even more decades to redact. We all overestimated George and some people get really defensive about admitting that. Maybe he'll once again prove helpful to making a movie again - we'll see.
Lucas is an amazing producer, one of the best. He can find great people to do amazing things and Bob cites several perfect examples in his original post. The problem is when he gets his hands on the minutia things start to go all pear-shaped.
But I think it's important to know why Lucas has engendered such resentment. The original Star Wars trilogy was the fable and mythology that joined lifelong influences like Aesop, Church, King Arthur legends, and older siblings. Han was the rascal redeemed, Luke was the youth learning who he could be, and so on. Sure it's only entertainment to me now, but my inner kid feels like his rewrite of history is an attempt to change or invalidate the very culture which raised me. (I am shocked at how good the Clone Wars series is.)
But I can forgive that. I can also forgive that his changes to the film are on a very basic level defiling art, either out of hubris, or a very basic inability to "get it".
Really I guess I just pity him, the closer he actually get to something, the more likely it is to change from gold to crap. It's like his influence is an amazingly positive thing up to a point, then past a given event horizon it starts to implode.
But I think it's important to know why Lucas has engendered such resentment. The original Star Wars trilogy was the fable and mythology that joined lifelong influences like Aesop, Church, King Arthur legends, and older siblings. Han was the rascal redeemed, Luke was the youth learning who he could be, and so on. Sure it's only entertainment to me now, but my inner kid feels like his rewrite of history is an attempt to change or invalidate the very culture which raised me. (I am shocked at how good the Clone Wars series is.)
But I can forgive that. I can also forgive that his changes to the film are on a very basic level defiling art, either out of hubris, or a very basic inability to "get it".
Really I guess I just pity him, the closer he actually get to something, the more likely it is to change from gold to crap. It's like his influence is an amazingly positive thing up to a point, then past a given event horizon it starts to implode.
What's there to forgive?
and get rich off it. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisContinuity]
Nope, the closest thing he did to a prequel was that one of my other favourite cartoons [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Clone_Wars_%282003_TV_series%29], was sadly cancelled after 2 seasons ending in a cliffhanger.
and get rich off it. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DisContinuity]
Nope, the closest thing he did to a prequel was that one of my other favourite cartoons [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Clone_Wars_%282003_TV_series%29], was sadly cancelled after 2 seasons ending in a cliffhanger.
Theres two issues with the whole "George Lucas killed Star Wars" thing which i believe are....
1. The fan base took the works of Lucas (the original 3) and ran with it creating there own view of the star wars universe and are unhappy with how Lucas seems distant from the lore of the Star Wars universe. The issue being that Star Wars wasn't a fully realized IP when it was created and the detail that the fans look into the lore is more than what was originally created for the movies (thus much of the continuity errors).
2. The vision Lucas had for Star Wars was diffrent than what he was able to create (limited budget and technology) and by going back and "fixing" the originals to shower a better realized vision of what he wanted to make, he committed one of the cardinal sins of an artist by trying to change his original works of art.
In light of number 1 Lucas should of honestly realized that theres no way in hell to go back and make more Star Wars movies without pissing a lot of people off. Eather he didn't foresee the backlash of making episodes 1,2,3 or he accepted that people would be pissed and went full force in making the movies how he wanted them to be with zero regard for what the fans would think.
One thing that is clear is that Lucas changed a fair bit in his style and view as an artist between the original movies and the prequels. By going back to this IP with a new and diffrent outlook and trying to change much of the tone of the series was really a critical mistake and now hes paying for it. (with making a boat load of cash, gaining the ire of a large portion of the Star Wars fanbase, and the disgrace as an artist for trying to fix a past work.)
I loved the originals and was only upset with episode 1 (putting Jar Jar into ANY movie is a crime against humanity, let alone in a Star Wars movie). Honestly i was ok with 2 and 3 but understood that they did not equal the greatness of the originals.
1. The fan base took the works of Lucas (the original 3) and ran with it creating there own view of the star wars universe and are unhappy with how Lucas seems distant from the lore of the Star Wars universe. The issue being that Star Wars wasn't a fully realized IP when it was created and the detail that the fans look into the lore is more than what was originally created for the movies (thus much of the continuity errors).
2. The vision Lucas had for Star Wars was diffrent than what he was able to create (limited budget and technology) and by going back and "fixing" the originals to shower a better realized vision of what he wanted to make, he committed one of the cardinal sins of an artist by trying to change his original works of art.
In light of number 1 Lucas should of honestly realized that theres no way in hell to go back and make more Star Wars movies without pissing a lot of people off. Eather he didn't foresee the backlash of making episodes 1,2,3 or he accepted that people would be pissed and went full force in making the movies how he wanted them to be with zero regard for what the fans would think.
One thing that is clear is that Lucas changed a fair bit in his style and view as an artist between the original movies and the prequels. By going back to this IP with a new and diffrent outlook and trying to change much of the tone of the series was really a critical mistake and now hes paying for it. (with making a boat load of cash, gaining the ire of a large portion of the Star Wars fanbase, and the disgrace as an artist for trying to fix a past work.)
I loved the originals and was only upset with episode 1 (putting Jar Jar into ANY movie is a crime against humanity, let alone in a Star Wars movie). Honestly i was ok with 2 and 3 but understood that they did not equal the greatness of the originals.
Star wars fans might have forgiven bad movies if their heart was in the right place, but the prequel trilogy isn't just bad, it's just plain wrong, created with no regard for what made the original trilogy great.
Personally, I hate George Lucas for replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christiansen in Return of the Jedi. However else you feel about the star wars movies, digitally replacing an actor with someone else is just plain horrible, both to Sebastian Shaw and actors in general. Go fuck yourself, Lucas.
Personally, I hate George Lucas for replacing Sebastian Shaw with Hayden Christiansen in Return of the Jedi. However else you feel about the star wars movies, digitally replacing an actor with someone else is just plain horrible, both to Sebastian Shaw and actors in general. Go fuck yourself, Lucas.
wait bambi whaaat???The_root_of_all_evil said:Ah, then fair game. I picked the reference so you could feel my pain.zelda2fanboy said:You could. Note that my handle is somewhat ironic. Zelda 2 is the most punishing and most hated game in the series. It's fanboy poison.The_root_of_all_evil said:You could say the same about Zelda
We all have our little rage-points, that's one of mine. Don't even get me started on Michael Gradeduchaked said:
Not updated the sound and the video though, so it looks like it's been camcordered in a cinema. And that's before I start on Indiana Jones and the Fridge of Doom
It's like watching Steve Martin doing Clouseau. You know that even at his greatest, he can't top the sheer love the original had, but still he keeps digging.
It's because I love the Universe that I get so annoyed when the "author" decides to re-write it against not only his own ideals, but those that made it popular in the first place.
Next week I'll tell you how Disney has re-wrote Bambi so that Bambi's Mother never dies, she just goes away. True story.
lol nvm, never really got into that movie even as a kid
idk why, it just felt...slow
I saw "The People vs. George Lucas" at SXSW. It's a very entertaining documentary, if nothing else, but as a documentary it sits in an odd place.
First of all, the only people who will want to see it, and will enjoy it much, are Star Wars fans who are already intimately familiar with the debates and subject material presented. There's not much knowledge granted to the audience except for a few obscure details, and most of the pleasure comes from seeing people like Neil Gaiman talk about Chewbacca.
The reaction was pretty stark between people who knew about the material in advance and people who didn't. After I came out of the theater, there were a lot of non-Star Wars fans in line dismissing it as "two hours of pussy geeks whining about who shot who first" in a scene they didn't remember in the first place. So though I enjoyed it, and think other Star Wars fans will enjoy it, I don't think it will have any wide appeal and I'm not sure who the target audience is. The fans won't learn anything, non-fans are just perplexed by the subject matter, and to be honest, a lot of the pleasure comes from "hey, a debate I had with my friends is on a movie screen!" moments. Ultimately the film pretty much comes to the same conclusion as MovieBob, but as a thesis it doesn't make much of an impact. It won't change any minds, but it's worth seeing.
First of all, the only people who will want to see it, and will enjoy it much, are Star Wars fans who are already intimately familiar with the debates and subject material presented. There's not much knowledge granted to the audience except for a few obscure details, and most of the pleasure comes from seeing people like Neil Gaiman talk about Chewbacca.
The reaction was pretty stark between people who knew about the material in advance and people who didn't. After I came out of the theater, there were a lot of non-Star Wars fans in line dismissing it as "two hours of pussy geeks whining about who shot who first" in a scene they didn't remember in the first place. So though I enjoyed it, and think other Star Wars fans will enjoy it, I don't think it will have any wide appeal and I'm not sure who the target audience is. The fans won't learn anything, non-fans are just perplexed by the subject matter, and to be honest, a lot of the pleasure comes from "hey, a debate I had with my friends is on a movie screen!" moments. Ultimately the film pretty much comes to the same conclusion as MovieBob, but as a thesis it doesn't make much of an impact. It won't change any minds, but it's worth seeing.
Allow me to be one of the few to make this statement: I don't like Star Wars. Never have. Still to this day I haven't fully watched the first three movies. I adore sci-fi movies so I'm grateful for all the Lucas has done but I'm still miffed about the abortion of a movie that was the last Indiana Jones.
Besides, Star Wars is way more fantasy than sci-fi
Besides, Star Wars is way more fantasy than sci-fi
Realistically, was it ever his fault? There was so much hype surrounding the Star Wars prequels that it got Molyneux-ed. I happen to quite like the prequels, and have never seen anything wrong with them. Ever. OK, maybe lil' Ani's voice was a tad annoying, but come on, it's not Lucas' fault if we expected films made 20 years after the originals to be exactly the same...
I can forgive lucas for he prequals, they were not well written by any means, My friends and I still qoute the second one mockingly all the time, I thougth the first and third were actually decnent movies, the second was almost unforgivable. Maybe its becuase the prequals were released while i was still new to eh series so there is less hate. HOWEVER indiana jones had enough time to become nostaglic in my mind when they released the 4th, AND I WILL NEVER FORGIVE ANYBODY INVOLVED WITH THAT MOVIE AS LONG AS I LIVE YOU CANT MAKE ME, I AM CHINA BITCHES. err sorry about that last bit maybe it was my growing hate for shia lebouf, or maybe it was the refrigerator(dont pretend you dont know what im talking about), perhaps it was the lack of nazis, or the abundance of F*ING aliens, but I can never forgive, I can move on but I cant forgive that atrocity.
See, I'm the opposite. I never really understood why people seemed to hate Indy 4 so much; I thought it was fun. Maybe not the paragon of movie brilliance, but still a lot of fun. And since ancient astronaut theory is something that fascinates me, I didn't have a problem with it.
The Star Wars prequel trilogy, though, makes me want to punch small furry things. The first one I enjoy, and will always enjoy, mostly owing to the fact that it has Liam Neeson and Jar Jar Binks didn't bother me as much as he seemed to bother other people. (I also liked Jake Lloyd, which seems to be heresy in most circles.) But the second and third movies are not something I can really forgive - though most of that is the fault of Hayden C. and not necessarily George Lucas. Though he could have helped avoid some of that terrible writing ("Anakin...you're breaking my heart!") and might have bothered to read his own novels (the RotJ novel now has several incongruities thanks to the Prequels that no amount of frantic retconning can fix) but I suppose that it's hard to see and manage your own faults when everyone else tells you how eternally awesome you are.
Had someone ELSE played Anakin Skywalker, I might have been able to handle the prequels with a little less rage. Alas, they were not, and I was only able to manage them because there were a few decent actors (read: Ewan McGregor) and lots of pretty lightsaber fights.
The Star Wars prequel trilogy, though, makes me want to punch small furry things. The first one I enjoy, and will always enjoy, mostly owing to the fact that it has Liam Neeson and Jar Jar Binks didn't bother me as much as he seemed to bother other people. (I also liked Jake Lloyd, which seems to be heresy in most circles.) But the second and third movies are not something I can really forgive - though most of that is the fault of Hayden C. and not necessarily George Lucas. Though he could have helped avoid some of that terrible writing ("Anakin...you're breaking my heart!") and might have bothered to read his own novels (the RotJ novel now has several incongruities thanks to the Prequels that no amount of frantic retconning can fix) but I suppose that it's hard to see and manage your own faults when everyone else tells you how eternally awesome you are.
Had someone ELSE played Anakin Skywalker, I might have been able to handle the prequels with a little less rage. Alas, they were not, and I was only able to manage them because there were a few decent actors (read: Ewan McGregor) and lots of pretty lightsaber fights.
I'm a little late to the party not checking the escapist news for a couple days, but I'm here now.
I liked the prequel trilogy. No, I didn't like Jar Jar Binks or the Gungans in general, but I thought the movies were overall pretty good. I liked that the added effects gave a viseral feel to the lightsaber duels, I enjoyed seeing armies of clones and droids duking it out on other planets, to say nothing of the truely massive space battles. And now that it's continuing with the Clone Wars cartoon series, I'm glad to see more of the canon star wars universe being fleshed out. He's filling in the space between the new and old trilogy, and part of me hopes that after we've gone from start to finish that he'll continue on to the new republic era. Of course, Lucas has, to the best of my knowledge, denounced that star wars even exists after the last movie, but it could happen.
I liked the prequel trilogy. No, I didn't like Jar Jar Binks or the Gungans in general, but I thought the movies were overall pretty good. I liked that the added effects gave a viseral feel to the lightsaber duels, I enjoyed seeing armies of clones and droids duking it out on other planets, to say nothing of the truely massive space battles. And now that it's continuing with the Clone Wars cartoon series, I'm glad to see more of the canon star wars universe being fleshed out. He's filling in the space between the new and old trilogy, and part of me hopes that after we've gone from start to finish that he'll continue on to the new republic era. Of course, Lucas has, to the best of my knowledge, denounced that star wars even exists after the last movie, but it could happen.
As much credit that I give George Lucas for the hell he went through making "A New Hope", I am even more grateful over the fact that he barely influenced the two sequels (he did some things in "Return of the Jedi" but that seemed minimal to me). Because if he would have given it as much attention as he did with the first movie we would have been given a very different, worse off trilogy.
Basically, he didn't know what he was doing. In a business sense he at least appears brilliant, but when creating a compelling, immersive story he clearly lacked expertise (and still does today). A New Hope worked because it was kept as simple and focused as possible, and the two following movies worked because he let over the reins to much more experienced people.
Clearly, his interests shifted from making movies to simply advertise merchandise after the original trilogy. Since he stopped caring about making a coherent and engaging experience, I stopped caring as well.
With the Theatrical version of the original trilogy having a place of honor on my shelves, I am more than content.
Basically, he didn't know what he was doing. In a business sense he at least appears brilliant, but when creating a compelling, immersive story he clearly lacked expertise (and still does today). A New Hope worked because it was kept as simple and focused as possible, and the two following movies worked because he let over the reins to much more experienced people.
Clearly, his interests shifted from making movies to simply advertise merchandise after the original trilogy. Since he stopped caring about making a coherent and engaging experience, I stopped caring as well.
With the Theatrical version of the original trilogy having a place of honor on my shelves, I am more than content.