Jack Ma and Elon Musk are worried about population collapse

[Anti-American Eagle]

Now, when you say replaced....

How would you respond if I moved to Africa and convinced everyone I know to also move to Africa? Say Saudi Arabia. We declare it our country, refuse to work, demand welfare, start building christian enclaves, and begin lobbying for a bible based legal system. Also the call to prayer is offensive to my religion so they can't play that anymore, and I guess we demand to see Mecca.

How would you respond?

Obviously I don't intend to do this and I don't see why anyone should be able to pull that kind of antic.

 

[McElroy]

All in all immigration is an expenditure that won't pay itself back economically...

That depends on your timescale. If you start thinking in terms of decades, it almost certainly does.

If you want your pension covered when you're an oldster, you might really appreciate that long-term view.

That's a wish for the good fortune that the children of those immigrants are in the workforce 50 years from now (reasonable), and that without immigrants our society would be that much poorer which is not guaranteed at all. I wouldn't sanction immigration based on it, but I will admit that it might be the only option if birth rates won't increase (or due to some awful political decisions).

 

[Kwak]

Obviously I don't intend to do this and I don't see why anyone should be able to pull that kind of antic.

Who is?

 

[Anti-American Eagle]

Who is?

Not most of them but enough of them and I'm tired of being told I'm not allowed to point and go "what the hell is wrong with these people."

 

[Trunkage]

Now, when you say replaced....

How would you respond if I moved to Africa and convinced everyone I know to also move to Africa? Say Saudi Arabia. We declare it our country, refuse to work, demand welfare, start building christian enclaves, and begin lobbying for a bible based legal system. Also the call to prayer is offensive to my religion so they can't play that anymore, and I guess we demand to see Mecca.

How would you respond?

Obviously I don't intend to do this and I don't see why anyone should be able to pull that kind of antic.

I'm assuming your talking about Muslims. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How many Muslims are wanting to change laws in America? (Or any Western culture of your choosing. And substitute the (((them))) your talking about.)

Here's what I see. Muslims wanting to come here but also retaining their culture. I'm fine with them keeping their culture as long as it doesn't break laws. Eg. Burqas are fine as long as women aren't forced to do it or breaks security concerns. 99% of Muslins likes this and want it to happen. Because most like out laws. That's why they came here.

That's not you being replaced. That's your laws being respected.

Your example is really funny. That's what Native American have been saying for years. Whiteys don't seem to care when they actually DO this to others.

Everyone isn't like this, trying to force their ideology onto others. They just want to live peacefully following our rules. You pretending they act like white people to Native American does them a disservice. It also pisses all over actual Western culture.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Yeah it's like why the fuck would I have a kid when I can barely feed or house myself and spend no time with it.

The rich are right to worry though. If they don't have a constant supply of workers then they'd actually have to compete for workers and maybe pay more.

 

[Marik2]

The majority of tech jobs are going to be done by robots and AI. They shouldn't care so much about people not having kids.

 

[Avnger]

Who is?

Not most of them but enough of them and I'm tired of being told I'm not allowed to point and go "what the hell is wrong with these people."

Yeah... the only "them" who deserves that done to and said about is the "them" you belong to.

You're nothing more than one more member of the "them" who, throughout history, has demonized and scapegoated minorities, particularly immigrants, to cover up your own shortcomings and inadequacies.

25 years ago, you'd have been saying the same thing about the Vietnamese; 50 years ago, about the Chinese; 100 years ago, about the Irish; 150 years ago, about the Germans; 250 years ago, about the Spaniards and French.

 

[Dalisclock]

Yeah it's like why the fuck would I have a kid when I can barely feed or house myself and spend no time with it.

The rich are right to worry though. If they don't have a constant supply of workers then they'd actually have to compete for workers and maybe pay more.

I have one and that's it. We could afford a second but it would quite a financial hit to take. Daycare is expensive, but one of us quitting our job to take care of her world be even moreso(not to mention spending all day watching a toddler wears after awhile).

And then there's the issue of watching the news and wondering if my 2 year old is going to inherit a world worth living due to climate change and wanna-be dictators pretending to be democratic populists has me looking for how soon I can get a vasectomy.

Want people to have more kids? Start fixing the world(not making it worse and pretending everything is fine in a burning house). Raise wages so people can afford said kids. Make daycare more affordable and available.

It's easy to sit there and say "Well, people should have more kids" when you don't have to support said kids yourself. It's much easier to ask others to do all the hard work of child raising so you can relish in perpetual economic growth fantasies.

Rather we can accept we're going to have to stabilize the population at some point no matter what and start that process now rather then wait till it's forced upon us and bear the temporary pain of the having fewer young folk to support the olds.

 

[Anti-American Eagle]

I'm assuming your talking about Muslims. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How many Muslims are wanting to change laws in America? (Or any Western culture of your choosing. And substitute the (((them))) your talking about.)

Here's what I see. Muslims wanting to come here but also retaining their culture. I'm fine with them keeping their culture as long as it doesn't break laws. Eg. Burqas are fine as long as women aren't forced to do it or breaks security concerns. 99% of Muslins likes this and want it to happen. Because most like out laws. That's why they came here.

That's not you being replaced. That's your laws being respected.

Your example is really funny. That's what Native American have been saying for years. Whiteys don't seem to care when they actually DO this to others.

Everyone isn't like this, trying to force their ideology onto others. They just want to live peacefully following our rules. You pretending they act like white people to Native American does them a disservice. It also pisses all over actual Western culture.

I wasn't talking about America. Maybe America in 50 years after you've fallen apart. But not America.

And yes. Awful things were done to the Aboriginals. But unless whites and everyone else who've been living there for generations decide to pack their bags and overpopulate Europe and the rest of the Eastern world they don't really have a choice now. I believe the Aboriginals should have a greater voice in politics, bring back their tribes, and assimilate legally with their now host countries to form something greater. But that's not going to happen.

Yeah... the only "them" who deserves that done to and said about is the "them" you belong to.

You're nothing more than one more member of the "them" who, throughout history, has demonized and scapegoated minorities, particularly immigrants, to cover up your own shortcomings and inadequacies.

25 years ago, you'd have been saying the same thing about the Vietnamese; 50 years ago, about the Chinese; 100 years ago, about the Irish; 150 years ago, about the Germans; 250 years ago, about the Spaniards and French.

I haven't seen the Vietnamese force their ways on others, except the Vietnamese. Same can be said of the Chinese and half of Asia. I'm Irish. The Germans rampaged across Europe and forced people into camps to work them to death. The Spaniards were so successful their victims for the most part speak their language and identify as hispanic. And the French... oh. right. the revolution that murdered people for having more.

We all do terrible things. But I'm not talking about the past. Why would I? What possible reason would I? I had the shit beaten out of me for years, mostly by people who grew up to go to college forget all of the shit they did and champion a cause from behind the screen. But I try not to care about the past. I'm more concerned with the present and the future and where we're headed. All I get anymore is tired. Tired of all of the shit going on and where things are headed.

Now, I haven't done a hell of a lot with my life to oppress anyone. I don't demonize or scapegoat either. That's a waste of time and does a disservice to what I actually think. I put a lot of effort into learning about the world and everything going on in it. And from more than one source too. Whoda thunkit. I don't believe homosexuals people should be murdered, or minorities for the matter. Or dragged off to camps. Or sent off to die in whatever hole they come from. I think they should stay and do something about said hole but that's another issue. I believe everyone should have a chance at a free life.

But. I must stress this. I don't think everyone has the right to another's land. I believe if they are to come they should come legally and assimilate to the local culture, instead of establishing enclaves and then making demands of the locals. As can be seen across europe. I believe immigration should be tighter, I believe refugees should settle in neighbouring land instead of picking and choosing across the world, and I believe we can all dream of a better world where we all get along. But it's not going to happen.

I'm tired of living at the barrel of foreign ideologies. I just want a stable life for me and my children. I've had enough bombs go off in my city.

You may think to yourself, hey wasn't he just talking about the aboriginals above? Yes. I was. And I don't think they should have been fucked over. But I don't see alot of solutions on the table for people who weren't even my ancestors had done to them.

[hr]

I'm going to shut up now because this should go nowhere. Back on topic.

Maybe Automation and Industrialization are ultimately bad for society. Maybe they're right. As long as we control populations maybe we should incentivize procreation. Then we can deal with all of the reasons we're failing. Maybe break it all and start from zero. But I really just want to be left alone more than anything else.

 

[Trunkage]

Yeah it's like why the fuck would I have a kid when I can barely feed or house myself and spend no time with it.

The rich are right to worry though. If they don't have a constant supply of workers then they'd actually have to compete for workers and maybe pay more.

I have one and that's it. We could afford a second but it would quite a financial hit to take. Daycare is expensive, but one of us quitting our job to take care of her world be even moreso(not to mention spending all day watching a toddler wears after awhile).

And then there's the issue of watching the news and wondering if my 2 year old is going to inherit a world worth living due to climate change and wanna-be dictators pretending to be democratic populists has me looking for how soon I can get a vasectomy.

Want people to have more kids? Start fixing the world(not making it worse and pretending everything is fine in a burning house). Raise wages so people can afford said kids. Make daycare more affordable and available.

It's easy to sit there and say "Well, people should have more kids" when you don't have to support said kids yourself. It's much easier to ask others to do all the hard work of child raising so you can relish in perpetual economic growth fantasies.

Rather we can accept we're going to have to stabilize the population at some point no matter what and start that process now rather then wait till it's forced upon us and bear the temporary pain of the having fewer young folk to support the olds.

Yep, kids are expensive. We waited to have our second when our first was at school to reduce costs. Paying two child care fees would be bank breaking.

 

[McElroy]

Okay, I'm updating my top 3 worst reasons to not have children. In no particular order they are "world already has enough", "climate change", and "it's the economy that wants children and I don't like the economy".

The feeling that the world is already crap and only getting worse is a legitimate concern though and changing that can be difficult. Not forgetting that our contemporary culture disincentivizes having kids.

 

[Hawki]

Reads comments about "them"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lguVYxb0KPU

"You're one of them!"

 

[Seanchaidh]

I'm also not by any means saying the rich are just kicking back all day while their underlings toil and struggle

They pretty much are, but OK.

Yeah it's like why the fuck would I have a kid when I can barely feed or house myself and spend no time with it.

The rich are right to worry though. If they don't have a constant supply of workers then they'd actually have to compete for workers and maybe pay more.

There are many and various financial instruments to deal with such things. In this day and age, the theft of other people's produce is so abstracted that the real economy almost doesn't matter-- if you have the money, anyway.

 

[Agema]

That's a wish for the good fortune that the children of those immigrants are in the workforce 50 years from now (reasonable), and that without immigrants our society would be that much poorer which is not guaranteed at all. I wouldn't sanction immigration based on it, but I will admit that it might be the only option if birth rates won't increase (or due to some awful political decisions).

Well, basically old people cost more than younger people (mostly healthcare bills) and don't produce much.

Therefore, an age-heavy population has a relatively higher proportion of people producing little that need to be paid for by people who work. So 1) we bleed future generations of workers dry, 2) get more workers, 3) slash expenditure on the elderly, 4) massively save/invest now (e.g. pension) to cover the later cost.

And I don't see 4 happening, what with 80% GDP debt and the country run by tax-cutting obsessives.

 

[McElroy]

That's a wish for the good fortune that the children of those immigrants are in the workforce 50 years from now (reasonable), and that without immigrants our society would be that much poorer which is not guaranteed at all. I wouldn't sanction immigration based on it, but I will admit that it might be the only option if birth rates won't increase (or due to some awful political decisions).

Well, basically old people cost more than younger people (mostly healthcare bills) and don't produce much.

Therefore, an age-heavy population has a relatively higher proportion of people producing little that need to be paid for by people who work. So 1) we bleed future generations of workers dry, 2) get more workers, 3) slash expenditure on the elderly, 4) massively save/invest now (e.g. pension) to cover the later cost.

And I don't see 4 happening, what with 80% GDP debt and the country run by tax-cutting obsessives.

Hell if I know or care how things get done in the UK. You guys are even leaving the EU. :^)

 

[stroopwafel]

I understand how the neoliberal aristocrats want to have higher birth rates b/c they want as much people as possible competing for the same shitty jobs to drive the cost of labor down. It's why corporations in the west are also so staunchly pro-feminist b/c they are the biggest supporter of immigration. The resulting muslim enclaves do have much higher birth rates but they still have the left as their mouthpiece to be put alongside other professional victims like the LGBTIQ community or feminists that hyper politically correct (social) media attributes to the oppressive tyranny of the heterosexual white male.

It really makes me laugh to be honest how the enemy of the left or feminists in particular is the straight white male who is having less and less children and as a result is aging and declining in numbers while muslims are their best friends. I truly wonder what the left thinks muslim's affinity is with gays, lesbians or feminism in general when demographics start to turn into their favor. I guess we'll find out in the coming years.

And the demographics will change so much in the coming decades that the west could have just as well already committed cultural suicide. The rule of law, separation of powers, minority rights, gender equality; all will crumble under the demographic decline of western populations and the mass influx of anti-democratic minorities.

But I guess the writing has already been on the wall for a long time. Rent and housing costs are ridiculously expensive to benefit the few. People competing for the same shitty jobs. Social alienation and loneliness epidemics that dissolved the glue that held society together. The explosive rise in psychiatric and developmental disorders. Record youngsters having no sex. The U.S. becoming an aristocracy where the super rich feed the peasantry with heavy painkillers to numb the pain of their existence while in Europe the bloated welfare state crumbles under the weight of an ever aging population, ballooning health care system and declining workforce.

The west has become a joke and China sees an omen. Must be nice to be a billionaire though.

 

[Dalisclock]

Okay, I'm updating my top 3 worst reasons to not have children. In no particular order they are "world already has enough", "climate change", and "it's the economy that wants children and I don't like the economy".

You apparently aren't noticing that overpoplation/overconsumption and climate change go hand in hand with one another. Dealing with the first will go a long way towards dealing with the second.

Please don't tell me you one of those people who thinks the Arctic melting is just a fluke or something that has nothing to do with how we've been pumping carbon into the air like crazy.

 

[Avnger]

I understand how the neoliberal aristocrats want to have higher birth rates b/c they want as much people as possible competing for the same shitty jobs to drive the cost of labor down. It's why corporations in the west are also so staunchly pro-feminist b/c they are the biggest supporter of immigration. The resulting muslim enclaves do have much higher birth rates but they still have the left as their mouthpiece to be put alongside other professional victims like the LGBTIQ community or feminists that hyper politically correct (social) media attributes to the oppressive tyranny of the heterosexual white male.

I'd love to live in this fantasy world for just a few minutes. I'm honestly not sure how you function in reality where the rest of us exist though. I'd ask you to provide a single source, but we both know you don't have any evidence to back it up.

It really makes me laugh to be honest how the enemy of the left or feminists in particular is the straight white male who is having less and less children and as a result is aging and declining in numbers while muslims are their best friends. I truly wonder what the left thinks muslim's affinity is with gays, lesbians or feminism in general when demographics start to turn into their favor. I guess we'll find out in the coming years.

In the US? They're, as a group, better than white Christians, particularly evangelicals.

And the demographics will change so much in the coming decades that the west could have just as well already committed cultural suicide. The rule of law, separation of powers, minority rights, gender equality; all will crumble under the demographic decline of western populations and the mass influx of anti-democratic minorities.

Nothing like a good dose of racism and xenophobia backed up by nothing except rhetoric, I guess. Truly part of a balanced breakfast.

But I guess the writing has already been on the wall for a long time. Rent and housing costs are ridiculously expensive to benefit the few. People competing for the same shitty jobs. Social alienation and loneliness epidemics that dissolved the glue that held society together. The explosive rise in psychiatric and developmental disorders. Record youngsters having no sex. The U.S. becoming an aristocracy where the super rich feed the peasantry with heavy painkillers to numb the pain of their existence while in Europe the bloated welfare state crumbles under the weight of an ever aging population, ballooning health care system and declining workforce.

And absolutely none of those things are caused by minorities. They're, by and large, caused by those white males you were claiming to be oppressed earlier (as white men make up the largest part of the economic top 1%, well out of proportion to population demographics).

The west has become a joke and China sees an omen. Must be nice to be a billionaire though.

You're free to leave and emigrate to somewhere else at any time. Don't let the door hit you on the way out

 

[stroopwafel]

I'd love to live in this fantasy world for just a few minutes. I'm honestly not sure how you function in reality where the rest of us exist though. I'd ask you to provide a single source, but we both know you don't have any evidence to back it up.

With the European refugee crisis it are mostly women welcoming immigrants of muslim countries with open arms(both actual and voting for pro-immigration political parties) with feminists and the left putting them under the same umbrella of other professional victims of the 'patriarchal tyranny' as muslims would somehow support gay rights or gender equality. This is so ridiculous that it's a good example of how ideologically blinded they are. It's also a fact corporations want open borders and are staunchingly pro-immigration. You can look it up.

In the US? They're, as a group, better than white Christians, particularly evangelicals.

With this example I was largely talking about Europe but the U.S. sees similar demographic changes with Spanish soon becoming the most spoken language, and the severe social unrest and extreme polarization in the U.S. isn't exactly a secret either.

Nothing like a good dose of racism and xenophobia backed up by nothing except rhetoric, I guess. Truly part of a balanced breakfast.

No racism at all as I never claimed any ethnicity is either superior or inferior. But what is racist about the reality of a population in decline when muslims(in Europe) are the only ones with higher birth rates and thinking muslims will support democratic values or gender equality is a pipe dream of the pro-immigration left?

And absolutely none of those things are caused by minorities. They're, by and large, caused by those white males you were claiming to be oppressed earlier (as white men make up the largest part of the economic top 1%, well out of proportion to population demographics).

I was talking about the oligarchy which 2% aren't exactly representative of the common folk.

You're free to leave and emigrate to somewhere else at any time. Don't let the door hit you on the way out

No.