You know, I'm not sure that I've ever heard anyone make the argument "Well, I've 5 star'd Through the Fire and the Flames on Hard, so I could probably play real guitar." The only people who I have heard say anything close to that are pissed off musicians accusing gamers of thinking that. I think that gamers know that they are just a game...maybe we need musicians to realize that too.ygetoff said:
Jack White and Jimmy Page Don't Like Guitar Hero
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
So, it looks like the argument has evolved over the years of music games into this:
Pro Game:
Whine Whine, I don't want to challenge myself without the aid of bright flashy colors. But sometimes, I try to play a real instrument and I suck so I gave up. GH / RB doesn't make me feel bad about playing, and I know it's not the same. Cry Cry.
Pro Instrument:
Whine Whine, I don't find any reason to spend time relaxing in a format that doesn't enrich my mind. GH / RB makes me feel like an entitled douche, because I play a real instrument. I know it's not the same. Cry Cry.
We've made so much progress.
Pro Game:
Whine Whine, I don't want to challenge myself without the aid of bright flashy colors. But sometimes, I try to play a real instrument and I suck so I gave up. GH / RB doesn't make me feel bad about playing, and I know it's not the same. Cry Cry.
Pro Instrument:
Whine Whine, I don't find any reason to spend time relaxing in a format that doesn't enrich my mind. GH / RB makes me feel like an entitled douche, because I play a real instrument. I know it's not the same. Cry Cry.
We've made so much progress.
I'm a drummer, and I actually want to play Rock Band. If nothing else, just to see what it's like and learn some new grooves, even if the game simplifies them.
One point from way back, I seem to remember Feeder attributing at least part of their success to getting a sizable place on the Gran Turismo soundtrack, and feedback told them that lots of people had never heard of them, loved what they heard while playing and ended up buying cds or going to see them live.
This is not just a case of games 'using' musicians here, it works both ways if done right!
I certainly have lost no respect for any music just because I can clumsily 'sort of ' play along to it with Guitar Hero.
This is not just a case of games 'using' musicians here, it works both ways if done right!
I certainly have lost no respect for any music just because I can clumsily 'sort of ' play along to it with Guitar Hero.
I think that it's more along the lines of this...CaptainCrunch said:
Pro Instrument:
How dare those people play a game that simulates creating music without the years of practice and frustration! I'll bet they think they can really play an instrument. Grumble grumble.
Pro Game;
Why won't those musicians shut up and let us have fun?
I think the issue more at hand is that the musicians have been told that a great majority (not necessarily THE majority) of their listeners are only listeners because they heard it in the videogame first, which is something they resent, and for good reason. Music is generally thought of in two ways: as a foreground, such as in a concert or performance setting, or "listening to music" as an activity, and in the background, like "while studying" or "accompanying the movie." Music in a videogame seems to be, even in a videogame about music, putting their music in the background and therefore trivialized before the listener makes a connection and appreciates the music the way the performer might think it should be appreciated. It seems to me that Jack White isn't saying he necessarily thinks guitar hero is bad, what I think he's saying is that it's not the right way to find out which bands you like and don't like.
In fact, I think that the real problem is a certain NEWS ROOM CONTRIBUTOR who has a bit of a bias for some indeterminable reason; the sources don't give more quotations than those in the news post, and they don't imply anything at all that should provoke so many gamers becoming so defensive. I think it's well-established that someone who's going to be playing guitar hero won't, should it not exist, be instead doing something more productive.
Although Jimmy Page seems to be overreacting a bit with the whole drums on Christmas bit - perhaps he should not be grouped with White. Of course, I didn't know about either of them until reading the article on a videogame website, so maybe it's more of a "what's this world coming to" sentiment than a "videogames are bad" one.
In fact, I think that the real problem is a certain NEWS ROOM CONTRIBUTOR who has a bit of a bias for some indeterminable reason; the sources don't give more quotations than those in the news post, and they don't imply anything at all that should provoke so many gamers becoming so defensive. I think it's well-established that someone who's going to be playing guitar hero won't, should it not exist, be instead doing something more productive.
Although Jimmy Page seems to be overreacting a bit with the whole drums on Christmas bit - perhaps he should not be grouped with White. Of course, I didn't know about either of them until reading the article on a videogame website, so maybe it's more of a "what's this world coming to" sentiment than a "videogames are bad" one.
I don't buy into that. I've never met someone who outright seemed to believe that because they can play Guitar Hero, they can play a real guitar. The kids that brag about Guitar Hero are no different than the kids that brag about Halo or Counterstrike or Call of Duty. They're nerdy little gamers who need their mothers to knock them upside the head.CoziestPigeon said:
EDIT: And if you DO know someone like that, the problem is easily fixed: hand them a real guitar. Jesus. Quit whining about it. Guitar Hero isn't ruining the music industry. The music industry was dead the moment someone bought a Soulja Boy record.
So what your saying is that Guitar Hero means that kids get there fix for rock stardom through a video game instead of becoming a high school dropout, get hooked on cocaine, and choke to death on there own vomit before there 30? Thanks Guitar Hero, society owes you one!
Well the number of people who would become serious musicians, never mind successful ones is pretty small to begin with, and I don't think that group has really changed in size due to the existance of music based games, I mean there are still plenty of "basement bands" hoping to make it big.
Not to mention the fact that even with such small numbers, I've actually been hoping for less musicians because I'm one of those critics who feels that rather than standing by developing band with ups and downs, right now there are simply so many that if a band falters they just replace them with something else. A very much "flavor of the week" kind of thing combined with ruthless profiteering and absolutly no loyalty to the talent. Basically if a band hits a rough spot, the industry won't be there for them, but if they get through it on their own and there is money to be made, well they will be the first knocking on the door.
There are exceptions to this behavior of course, but the bottom line is that I think less musicians would mean a return to older models and the industry standing by the talent it has rather than taking a plug and play attitude and disposing of any act they don't have an immediate use for, figuring they can always drag them out of the gutter and dust them off later if they really need them (which is typically unlikely to the eyes of many in the industry).
At any rate, Zepplin is timeless enough where they really don't have issues with popularity, but I think a lot of older music is getting attention because of these games (as others have said), rather than falling by the wayside.
Love him or hate him, but Meatloaf was exceptional in being able to do the "Cross Generational" thing with songs like "I Would Do Anything For Love, But I Wouldn't Do That" and "Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through". Right now I think Guitar Hero is providing a means for older acts to more easily do the same kind of thing with their older music. Not everyone scores big with new material the way Meatloaf did, and a chance to resurrect older stuff usually isn't bad.
>>>----Therumancer--->
Not to mention the fact that even with such small numbers, I've actually been hoping for less musicians because I'm one of those critics who feels that rather than standing by developing band with ups and downs, right now there are simply so many that if a band falters they just replace them with something else. A very much "flavor of the week" kind of thing combined with ruthless profiteering and absolutly no loyalty to the talent. Basically if a band hits a rough spot, the industry won't be there for them, but if they get through it on their own and there is money to be made, well they will be the first knocking on the door.
There are exceptions to this behavior of course, but the bottom line is that I think less musicians would mean a return to older models and the industry standing by the talent it has rather than taking a plug and play attitude and disposing of any act they don't have an immediate use for, figuring they can always drag them out of the gutter and dust them off later if they really need them (which is typically unlikely to the eyes of many in the industry).
At any rate, Zepplin is timeless enough where they really don't have issues with popularity, but I think a lot of older music is getting attention because of these games (as others have said), rather than falling by the wayside.
Love him or hate him, but Meatloaf was exceptional in being able to do the "Cross Generational" thing with songs like "I Would Do Anything For Love, But I Wouldn't Do That" and "Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through". Right now I think Guitar Hero is providing a means for older acts to more easily do the same kind of thing with their older music. Not everyone scores big with new material the way Meatloaf did, and a chance to resurrect older stuff usually isn't bad.
>>>----Therumancer--->
No punchline? He knocked the guy's head off with a Guitar Hero controller! How is that not funny?MaxTheReaper said:
On topic: This is a stupid argument. Gamers want to live out fantasies. Let them play their little plastic guitars and drums. Maybe it'll inspire them. Musicians will continue to devote hours of practice to forming chords, getting good tone, and hitting the damn solos from Free Bird. Life will go on and everyone can enjoy themselves doing something they like. Why is there any kind of argument about this?
As much as I'd hate to disagree with Jack White for being such a god, I have to say this is the best response I've seen.Branes said:
That's rather sad, but then again, I don't have delusions that I could have taken on the Nazis by just playing Call of Duty, and even though "it took a video game to expose me to it", it made me interested in studying things about World War II further, why should it be any different for music? There's probably people who bought limited edition Vinyl for a band they enjoyed listening to while playing GH, nothing wrong with that.