Jade Raymond Problem?
- Thread starter Leon P
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Isn't it kind of bothersome to ya'll that just because she's good looking you're assuming she can't possibly have made a good game? I mean...at some point you're going to have to accept that people you find physically attractive are capable of things besides standing there smiling at you.
Think about it for a second...
Why the hell would a company bring in a fake producer just to have a pretty face associated with its game?
They'd be an industry laughingstock if word ever got out.
She'd be risking her whole future. What's she going to do next?
Even if everyone involved kept the secret perfectly, the negative impact on the team's morale would be significant. Do you know any programmers or game artists who wouldn't absolutely hate the situation?
All for what? The majority of players who'll buy the product neither know nor care about the composition of your development team, anyway. How much money would you seriously stand to make?
You know what's a much better way to have a pretty face associated with your game? Just put a pretty face into the game.
Sure, an attractive, sociable person can sometimes get a better job faster than an unattractive, unsociable one. They've both still gotta prove that they can cut it. And, if that attractive, sociable person happens to be a woman in the gaming industry, having to deal with stupid shit like this right here any time you get anywhere more than makes up for that little advantage, doesn't it?
-- Alex
Why the hell would a company bring in a fake producer just to have a pretty face associated with its game?
They'd be an industry laughingstock if word ever got out.
She'd be risking her whole future. What's she going to do next?
Even if everyone involved kept the secret perfectly, the negative impact on the team's morale would be significant. Do you know any programmers or game artists who wouldn't absolutely hate the situation?
All for what? The majority of players who'll buy the product neither know nor care about the composition of your development team, anyway. How much money would you seriously stand to make?
You know what's a much better way to have a pretty face associated with your game? Just put a pretty face into the game.
Sure, an attractive, sociable person can sometimes get a better job faster than an unattractive, unsociable one. They've both still gotta prove that they can cut it. And, if that attractive, sociable person happens to be a woman in the gaming industry, having to deal with stupid shit like this right here any time you get anywhere more than makes up for that little advantage, doesn't it?
-- Alex
Yes! How dare we question the talent of someone behind such great gaming masterpieces like Jeopardy, Trivial Pursuit, The Sims Online or There! No, instead we have to create topics like this where all we can talk about is her cup size relative to her abilities as a programmer! MAKES ME SICK!Russ Pitts said:
Read the thread, then post.
EDIT I guess:
Because its a pretty average title overall and they needed some marketing hype delivered by the nerds much sought after "Beautiful girl".Alex_P said:
You mean like that Veronica Mars girl? Yep, she's in there too. It all screams of marketing.Alex_P said:
For what it's worth, Leon, I understand your point about being marketed to. Jade was -- whether through her own choices, the company's, or the gaming-journalism media's -- definitely a lot more visible than the typical game producer. Someone definitely made the decision that her image was worth promoting.
However, I think it's pretty ridiculous to imply she didn't actually work on the game just because she's pretty and her resume seems a bit sparse. Huge projects with bad managers don't just magically come together all by themselves; they fail and flounder and suck. And, as I said above, bringing in a puppet producer just to look pretty and give interviews would be a ridiculous strategy that no serious self-interested company would attempt.
-- Alex
However, I think it's pretty ridiculous to imply she didn't actually work on the game just because she's pretty and her resume seems a bit sparse. Huge projects with bad managers don't just magically come together all by themselves; they fail and flounder and suck. And, as I said above, bringing in a puppet producer just to look pretty and give interviews would be a ridiculous strategy that no serious self-interested company would attempt.
-- Alex
I did read the thread. Your argument has two foundations: Jade Raymond previously produced games that sucked AND nerds like hot girls. Therefore, the only reason she got a job producing Assassin's Creed is because she's attractive. I never knew about her until people claimed she was an advertising gimmick, so it certainly didn't work on me.
You're automatically assuming that she could not possibly 1) learn from her mistakes (if she made any) and 2) potentially shine when she isn't dealing with an IP that isn't inherently stupid. You're going to have to bring up better evidence than the fact that Jeopardy, Sims Online, and Trivial Pursuit weren't very good. Those games are going to suck even if Will Wright is producing them.
Stop accusing people who don't agree with you of being ignorant and actually address the issue they raise. Think about what they're saying, then post.
You're automatically assuming that she could not possibly 1) learn from her mistakes (if she made any) and 2) potentially shine when she isn't dealing with an IP that isn't inherently stupid. You're going to have to bring up better evidence than the fact that Jeopardy, Sims Online, and Trivial Pursuit weren't very good. Those games are going to suck even if Will Wright is producing them.
Stop accusing people who don't agree with you of being ignorant and actually address the issue they raise. Think about what they're saying, then post.
I actually posted a rant about this on another forum. I kinda sorta maybe agree with you. I think Raymond was totally capable at what she did, or rather I think the same of her capability as any other person whose work ethic I've heard nothing about. My problem was that a specific article I'd read had basically been about Jade Raymond. There are a very few producers or developers who get that kind of treatment and all of those are considered geniuses AND have been high-profile for years.Leon P said:
Personally, I think what happened was:
1)Jade Raymond does as producers and developers do: works on the game.
2)She also talks to journalists about it.
3)Through attractiveness, sociability and knowing about the game she gets the "omg, hot girlz" response from idiot journalists/gamers.
4)More people pay attention.
5)Jade keeps doing her thing and possibly decides "Hey, I've got a game to sell. One I'm excited about, one I love talking about and that's paying the bills AND if it's a success my career can only go up," so she decided to do more interviews. That's what PR does: goes with whatever angle sells the product.
6)Gamers start noticing all the attention she's getting and, since lots of gamers are idiot guys on the internet, many try to paint her as an attention whore.
So that's my thoughts on the controversy, and I'm not saying you're one of those guys.
Saskwach said:
I agree with what your saying on this
I agree just because shes pretty doesn't mean she cant create a brilliant game!
I'm no sexist Im in a class of which 20/40 game graduates are females
(so being sexist gets me no where)
"Isn't it kind of bothersome to ya'll that just because she's good looking you're assuming she can't possibly have made a good game? I mean...at some point you're going to have to accept that people you find physically attractive are capable of things besides standing there smiling at you."
that argument is just plain childish
but the fact all this attention was brought onto her just because she was pretty was annoying
instead of her so called 'talent'
And I assume even more annoying for a female games designer who gets little to no attention
My thought on the original post:
If she was a figurehead, then, whatever. All I'd heard PR wise from my little gamers den was that there was going to be a game where you got to stab people. A lot. During the Crusades an in the holy land no less. Mm, stabbing stuff. So if it was a PR stunt, I never heard it. Must have been on the wrong side of the t'internet or somesuch.
My second thought- well, some producers make some lame or crazy stuff before they hit gold. Peter Jackson, case in point. Lotsa crazy stuff, then.. BOOM! Lord of the Rings. Nice.
Either way, I still got to run around Acre and Jerusalem stabbing stuff. Shame the plot was lame and made all the 'Multiple people of faith folks made the game' stuff a nonsense.
If she was a figurehead, then, whatever. All I'd heard PR wise from my little gamers den was that there was going to be a game where you got to stab people. A lot. During the Crusades an in the holy land no less. Mm, stabbing stuff. So if it was a PR stunt, I never heard it. Must have been on the wrong side of the t'internet or somesuch.
My second thought- well, some producers make some lame or crazy stuff before they hit gold. Peter Jackson, case in point. Lotsa crazy stuff, then.. BOOM! Lord of the Rings. Nice.
Either way, I still got to run around Acre and Jerusalem stabbing stuff. Shame the plot was lame and made all the 'Multiple people of faith folks made the game' stuff a nonsense.
actually wikipedia has been proven to be as accurate if not more so than other places, including things such as the encyclopedia britanicagibboss28 said:
i think with Jade it's a two fold issue. she's very attractive and yes there are some hot female coders and more than you'd think, tho she hasn't done a lot of popular titles. she was given a lot of face time because of her attractiveness.
now this practice hasn't been all that common over here, in japan it's a very common practice to have the producer given face time, Kojima is akin to a rockstar. north american developers are doing it more and more, such as CliffyB
another issue comes from the fact that she's a woman, our society happens to vilify women and iconify men. look at how much CliffyB is hyping gears of war 2 and spouting his mouth off, no one calls him a media whore, if it was Jade doing that, she's whoring herself out
Always charmed when words get stuffed in my mouth. Particularly when it's to change the subject. Never called you sexist, I accused the topic poster of assuming she couldn't make a good game because she's hot and her background is obscure. What would you call the assumption that a woman was hired only because she's attractive?sunami88 said:
Why was Leon P trying to scope this young lady out in the first place? was his "gut feeling" a little...lower than his gut? 
(I don't blame you for this, Leon, we're mostly men here) Was is that he could simply not believe that she could be a successful games producer and a woman? And hot? You can be all three and there's no necessary contradiction.
(I don't blame you for this, Leon, we're mostly men here) Was is that he could simply not believe that she could be a successful games producer and a woman? And hot? You can be all three and there's no necessary contradiction.
"I agree with what your saying on this
I agree just because shes pretty doesn't mean she cant create a brilliant game!
I'm no sexist Im in a class of which 20/40 game graduates are females
(so being sexist gets me no where)"
earlier statement NO I can belive you can be successfully and atractive
Ive had a man crush on Hideo since I was 10
ahaha
I agree just because shes pretty doesn't mean she cant create a brilliant game!
I'm no sexist Im in a class of which 20/40 game graduates are females
(so being sexist gets me no where)"
earlier statement NO I can belive you can be successfully and atractive
Ive had a man crush on Hideo since I was 10
ahaha
They don't need to give out a Producer's salary to hire a pretty face.
In the past to do this there were booth babes for trade shows, and now there are the Frag Dolls.
I always get a laugh when I see a video being posted with them (looking at you Endwar). All I really want to see is the game, people can find everything else in real life.
In the past to do this there were booth babes for trade shows, and now there are the Frag Dolls.
I always get a laugh when I see a video being posted with them (looking at you Endwar). All I really want to see is the game, people can find everything else in real life.