Japanese Eroge Company Renames Rape Games to "Platinum Games"

[cobra_ky]

However, simply calling this censorship is slightly off, it's merely addressing the knee-jerk issue. The real problem at the bottom of this whole thing has nothing to do with free speech.

Instead, it has to do with if one's open-mindedness is so very open-minded as to induce genuine harm. In a scenario out of the game, we don't walk through a park and see a man raping a screaming 10-year-old girl, shrug, and keep walking, thinking to ourselves, "well, who am I to judge?" So there's a definite limit to how open-minded you can be before you're condoning harm. In other words, there's a point where being open-minded is no longer a function of intelligence, but rather an irresponsible lack thereof.

Creating games about raping people is pretty close to that line. It's a bit of a stretch to say that a game like RapeLay will definitely get a person to start raping people, even psychological experiments finding varying results. However, it's not a stretch at all to say that the open sale of such a product is condoning rape on the level of being content in a game you can buy. At the point where we're a society that chooses to condone rape on an additional level, we're that much closer to the "well, who am I to judge" scenario above.

So, when you break it all down to the fundamentals, the reason why a restriction of a game like RapeLay applies is because the harm condoning it may bring to a society is greater than the harm not condoning it may bring to the benefit free speech brings to society.

this same argument applies equally well to murder or any other crime portrayed in video games.

Yes, but as this post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.128903.2785009] clearly outlines, you can't just say, "well, we allow violent games, so lets allow a game about tracking down and raping a 10-year-old." The reason being that the context is totally different, and the severity is a major factor.

i didn't say that. what i said was the argument that selling RapeLay condones rape can be applied equally well to GTA condoning murder. both encourage the player to commit violent crimes and reward them for doing so. if GTA isn't "severe" enough for you, i can point you to games about killing jews in concentration camps, or a suicide bomber trying to kill george w. bush.

 

[geldonyetich]

However, simply calling this censorship is slightly off, it's merely addressing the knee-jerk issue. The real problem at the bottom of this whole thing has nothing to do with free speech.

Instead, it has to do with if one's open-mindedness is so very open-minded as to induce genuine harm. In a scenario out of the game, we don't walk through a park and see a man raping a screaming 10-year-old girl, shrug, and keep walking, thinking to ourselves, "well, who am I to judge?" So there's a definite limit to how open-minded you can be before you're condoning harm. In other words, there's a point where being open-minded is no longer a function of intelligence, but rather an irresponsible lack thereof.

Creating games about raping people is pretty close to that line. It's a bit of a stretch to say that a game like RapeLay will definitely get a person to start raping people, even psychological experiments finding varying results. However, it's not a stretch at all to say that the open sale of such a product is condoning rape on the level of being content in a game you can buy. At the point where we're a society that chooses to condone rape on an additional level, we're that much closer to the "well, who am I to judge" scenario above.

So, when you break it all down to the fundamentals, the reason why a restriction of a game like RapeLay applies is because the harm condoning it may bring to a society is greater than the harm not condoning it may bring to the benefit free speech brings to society.

this same argument applies equally well to murder or any other crime portrayed in video games.

Yes, but as this post [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.128903.2785009] clearly outlines, you can't just say, "well, we allow violent games, so lets allow a game about tracking down and raping a 10-year-old." The reason being that the context is totally different, and the severity is a major factor.

i didn't say that. what i said was the argument that selling RapeLay condones rape can be applied equally well to GTA condoning murder. both encourage the player to commit violent crimes and reward them for doing so. if GTA isn't "severe" enough for you, i can point you to games about killing jews in concentration camps, or a suicide bomber trying to kill george w. bush.

And I just showed how it's not quite that simple. However, lets say I just accept your point at face value. What difference does this observation make?

Basically, you're trying to argue that one wrong makes two wrongs right. Does it really work that way?

I can find super violent games so we should have super sexual games! I can find examples of murder in real life, so there should be rape in real life too! Timmy hit me, so I raped Suzy!

No, it doesn't work that way. You might see this logic on a forum (e.g. alcohol's okay so MJ should be ok) and you'll even find supporters of that logic, but there is the only place the logic works: in uninformed mob rule.

This is because it's completely fallacious if you dig but an inch or two deeper: one wrong never makes two wrongs right, especially when you realize that these two wrongs are quite unlike eachother.

 

[matsugawa]

Thoroughbred?!

Seriously... thoroughbred?!

Platinum is an arbitrary word, ultimately meaningless outside the metallurgical sciences. At best it's a loaded word given that status by record labels.

But THOROUGHBRED?!

 

[NoTroll]

For all thsoe people who are saying or even implying that rape is worse than murder or that it's better to be dead than to have been raped, would you advise a someone who had been raped to kill themselves, since it would be a better alternative?

 

[LilGherkin]

They've just ruined my favorite color and medal.

 

[KarumaK]

EDIT: I wouldn't mind these so much if they had something useful about them... the same way I don't care how violent a game is if it has a decent or otherwise meaningful story.

Who knows, maybe one of those "Platinum" games is a coming to age story of a rapist with a heart of platinum, which will move you in a way art that doesn't involve non-consensual acts of sexual violence could never. I really doubt it, then again I can't read Japanese and this is really no reason to start.

What creeps me out more is the "Thoroughbred" category. Platinum as a title for a genre is ambiguous enough to be deceitful. People who enjoy "normal" sex games may research them from the misleading names. Thoroughbred has many creepier connotations at least to me. People who look into that category after thinking about the title have some "interesting" tastes to say the least.

Who knows. If anyone who has actually played these games can come forth and testify, please do.

"Thoroughbred" just scares me.

I've played Rapelay, gotta question?

Does it have a decent story? Like along the lines of a normal shooter?

It has exactly the kinda story you'd expect from a game about rape. That said I think it's on par with the story of your average shooter, keep in mind I don't like shooters.

Is the story meaningful at all?

No, it's just a set up.

 

[ygetoff]

EDIT: I wouldn't mind these so much if they had something useful about them... the same way I don't care how violent a game is if it has a decent or otherwise meaningful story.

Who knows, maybe one of those "Platinum" games is a coming to age story of a rapist with a heart of platinum, which will move you in a way art that doesn't involve non-consensual acts of sexual violence could never. I really doubt it, then again I can't read Japanese and this is really no reason to start.

What creeps me out more is the "Thoroughbred" category. Platinum as a title for a genre is ambiguous enough to be deceitful. People who enjoy "normal" sex games may research them from the misleading names. Thoroughbred has many creepier connotations at least to me. People who look into that category after thinking about the title have some "interesting" tastes to say the least.

Who knows. If anyone who has actually played these games can come forth and testify, please do.

"Thoroughbred" just scares me.

I've played Rapelay, gotta question?

Does it have a decent story? Like along the lines of a normal shooter?

It has exactly the kinda story you'd expect from a game about rape. That said I think it's on par with the story of your average shooter, keep in mind I don't like shooters.

Is the story meaningful at all?

No, it's just a set up.

I see. Would censorship of this game (or at least a strongly worded warning label on the box) be any loss to society?

 

[KarumaK]

EDIT: I wouldn't mind these so much if they had something useful about them... the same way I don't care how violent a game is if it has a decent or otherwise meaningful story.

Who knows, maybe one of those "Platinum" games is a coming to age story of a rapist with a heart of platinum, which will move you in a way art that doesn't involve non-consensual acts of sexual violence could never. I really doubt it, then again I can't read Japanese and this is really no reason to start.

What creeps me out more is the "Thoroughbred" category. Platinum as a title for a genre is ambiguous enough to be deceitful. People who enjoy "normal" sex games may research them from the misleading names. Thoroughbred has many creepier connotations at least to me. People who look into that category after thinking about the title have some "interesting" tastes to say the least.

Who knows. If anyone who has actually played these games can come forth and testify, please do.

"Thoroughbred" just scares me.

I've played Rapelay, gotta question?

Does it have a decent story? Like along the lines of a normal shooter?

It has exactly the kinda story you'd expect from a game about rape. That said I think it's on par with the story of your average shooter, keep in mind I don't like shooters.

Is the story meaningful at all?

No, it's just a set up.

I see. Would censorship of this game (or at least a strongly worded warning label on the box) be any loss to society?

A warning label wouldn't be any real problem, I just happen to think that if you need to see a warning label you shouldn't be touching the thing in the first place. Censorship however inevitably bring you to a variety of questions; Where does it stop? Who decides what to censor? Why should someone else decide what I can/can't do in my free time? To name a few.

 

[The Lost Big Boss]

If there is ever a time we needed Jack Thompson...

 

[neosonichdghg]

I see. Would censorship of this game (or at least a strongly worded warning label on the box) be any loss to society?

A warning label would be perfectly reasonable. But if it's sold in the US, it has one - an 'AO' tag on the front and a box on the back detailing exactly why it's rated 'AO'. I would also imagine it has a detailed description of what the game contains on the back of the box and an illustrative tagline just under the title or picture on the front. Pretty much every game does.

EDIT: And then there's the fact that, you know, it's called RapeLay. If you buy a game called RapeLay and don't realize it's about rape, you deserve what's coming to you.

Censorship? It would be a huge loss, for the exact reason that censoring the neo-nazis or NAMBLA would be a huge loss to society. It would be the prosecution of thought-crime, the destruction of information simply because someone (or even a lot of someones) doesn't like it. Enforcing the First Amendment doesn't require a given piece of content to be justified. Subverting it, and censoring something, is what requires specific and compelling justification.

 

[dudeman0001]

This is just...really pathetic, disgusting, and sad. Call me a weak-stomached fool who wants to shut down games because I don't personally like them, but if I were in charge, those 'rape games' would be banned, all of them, and I'd put out a notice saying, 'If you attempt to replicate said rape simulators, there will be severe consequences and/or lawsuits against your companies.'

Creating a rape simulator is never justified no matter what you try and call it.

Are you stupid?

Every hour some dweeb spends playing one is another hour he can't use for ACTUAL RAPE.

You're not weak-stomached, you're just the kind of moron who morally equates fiction and reality.

Do you seriously think that this "game" would be enough to appease the urges of a rapist? These games don't lower crime rates, that's ridiculous.

 

[dudeman0001]

People are completely over reacting to the existence of these games. There's a whole psychological aspect of rape fantasy that makes it appealing to people who would never want to rape/be raped. It's taboo for one, there's a whole lot of powerplay in there that people from bdsm culture would find appealing, so on and so forth. Here's a look at it from a female perspective.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/brainstorm/200805/why-do-women-have-erotic-rape-fantasies

I'm a chick, I've played some of the little flash 'platinum' games online out of curiosity and they're so far divorced from reality that I'm not really threatened by idea of men playing them. As far as I'm concerned it's just an extension of the drive that makes regular couples break out the fluffy handcuffs when they're feeling a bit saucy.

Seriously, if people took the principles they learned from erotic media and used them in real life then 70's plumbers and pool-cleaning guys would have been the most over sexed guys on the planet. Hot female twins everywhere would be having constant threesomes oblivious of the disturbing incest aspect of it, and pregnancy rates would be down all over the world because guys would all... pull the train out of the tunnel... out of some strange need to watch themselves... unload the cargo... okay I'm running out ridiculous euphimisms but you get what I mean!

So you're saying this:

"Defining Moment: I wish I could say that the first instance of bloody cock or the rape that takes place on top of the child's enormous bed were the defining moments of the game. That would have been enough - more than enough - but, these are both things I have seen in Hentai games before. Pregnancy and abortion are new twists on this filthy genre, and they were disturbing, but they still don't quite win out. No, the winner on this one are the tears that glisten and move in the little girl's eyes. That sort of attention to detail wins this game a huge pile of disturbing points."

Doesn't bother you in the least? Or were you only reffering to whatever flash game you played?

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

Could you respond to my stance, specifically that creating rape simulators is wrong, WITHOUT making ad hominem attacks

No.

You're admitting to making a logical fallacy and then continuing to use it anyway? Clever. Until you feel like having a reasonable discussion, this debate is over.

 

[Wounded Melody]

As long as they don't ban my yaoi rape games, all is good.
But, if they want to ban games w/ rape, shouldn't they ban a lot of manga and anime?

 

[BlueMage]

I knew I loved Japan for a reason!

This ... isn't actually one of them. Cue all the Japedophiles (replaces Weeaboo folks) whining because they're going to be kept even further away from the opposite gender now.

 

[Jacques 2]

Just a quick question to those who argue that you can choose not to kill people in GTA, that are not trying to kill you? Have you ever played GTA and if so, did you make that choice? Even Mario involves killing to some extent, via the crushing weight of an Italian plumber (why don't we scream weightist and racism for that?) coming to bear upon small animals, some of which, do not have any ability or will to harm you unless you directly approach them. I know one person, who hasn't killed anyone in GTA, but played it, not that they made it very far, but they played it for a half hour without killing anyone, they might be more objective than some of the arguers here, but I doubt anyone here could give that view, short of never playing a video game.

Video games are artificial constructs in which there are entities that are modeled, textured, and/or animated, to resemble people, animals, objects, buildings, and ideas. Depending on the nature of the construct, you may apply certain effects to certain entities via certain actions. These entities then respond in a predetermined way, or one of several predetermined results in order to simulate variety or give a sense of randomness, or simply to remove the repetitiveness that a single repeating response can cause. The creators of the construct, or later modifiers, enable the player to effect objects in specific ways. In pong, you move you're player, which is a paddle, to come into contact with a dot that then reflects off of you according to the way you hit it, slowing or speeding up depending on the movement rate of the paddle. That dot then traverses what is defined as an empty space with 2 walls, perpendicular to the paddles, the goal being to get the dot to pass the opponent's side of the screen. The dot is a mathematically drawn circle, shaded in with pixels, which represents the idea of a ball. It is not a ball, it is a virtual entity taking on the appearance of one, with limited believability. You can apply to that entity certain meanings from outside of the construct, but that dot has only the meaning it is supplied by it's creators in the format it was created in; it has no feelings, no imagination, no thoughts, it is an entity in a construct.

Were an entity to be created that could think or feel, then ethics would be a question.

 

[shadow skill]

I chuckle at these threads. Plenty of normal people roleplay rape with a partner or partners. Why then should a game give people so many problems? Are we going to tell people that are into S&M that they cannot roleplay the way they feel like?

 

[cobra_ky]

And I just showed how it's not quite that simple. However, lets say I just accept your point at face value. What difference does this observation make?

Basically, you're trying to argue that one wrong makes two wrongs right. Does it really work that way?

I can find super violent games so we should have super sexual games! I can find examples of murder in real life, so there should be rape in real life too! Timmy hit me, so I raped Suzy!

No, it doesn't work that way. You might see this logic on a forum (e.g. alcohol's okay so MJ should be ok) and you'll even find supporters of that logic, but there is the only place the logic works: in uninformed mob rule.

This is because it's completely fallacious if you dig but an inch or two deeper: one wrong never makes two wrongs right, especially when you realize that these two wrongs are quite unlike eachother.

actually, my argument is that neither type of game is particularly wrong. if you believe that super violent games should be subject to the same restrictions you're proposing for sex games, well, that's certainly a tenable position. it is, however, one i do not share.