Japanese Mayor Wouldn't Hire Johnny Depp

[Char-Nobyl]

Firstly, your claims about tattoos being a sign of avoiding prison aren't true. Most Russian gangsters receive their tattoos while in prison. The usual way to do it is with a guitar string threaded into an electric shaver, and to use blue biro ink. That's why the tattoos look faded. Not because of age, but because they weren't made with proper tattoo ink, but regular biro ink mixed with piss.

Ah, I think we got our wires crossed there. I was arguing against the notion that tattoos are a 'Get them outside of prison just in case you end up in prison' tool. But otherwise, what you're saying sounds about right...though I still hold that tattoos do look faded with time, especially if they're monochromatic.

Indeed, your argument about Russian gangsters avoiding prison runs counter to the fact that the hierarchy of the Russian mafia system is based on prison hierarchy. The Vor V Zakone syndicate was formed in the Gulags of Soviet Russia, where anything was enough to get you imprisoned. From the Gulags evolved a complex hierarchy of Mob lords, gangsters and criminal underclasses. If you want to read up a bit on it, look up the ***** Wars. It was an entire civil war between gangsters that took place entirely in Russia's prisons.

Look, mate, you're very knowledgeable, and I'm more than open to this back-and-forth, but I'm not going to google search '***** Wars.' I'm just...not. I really hope you understand why. I'll just take your word for it.

Secondly, Russian gangsters very much do use tattoos as a way of identifying each other. If you don't believe me, consider the fact that the Russian mob has regularly executed anyone they find sporting their tattoos who isn't themselves a Russian gangster. Russian gangs do use tattoos as a means of identification, and their tattoos have acquired a great meaning of symbolism over the years. For instance, someone with a cathedral or church tattooed on their body has done time in prison. Incidentally, I'm pretty sure Viggo Mortensen's character sports a Cathedral tattoo, meaning its certain that he's done time in prison.

If you've got a citation for the execution thing, that'd be great. Because some of the stuff here (especially church-imagery) has existed for much longer than the Russian mob, and most people don't consider them even loosely associated with them.

Someone with a tattoo of barbed wire around their head has been imprisoned for life with no chance of release.

And this'd be a tattoo you only see in prison, right?

Even more tellingly, people who fail the gangs, or insult them in any way, will often have humiliating tattoos forcibly placed on their foreheads, or other public areas, usually involving ethnic slurs or humiliating sexual imagery. Someone who narcs to the authorities, for instance, will have '*****' written on their forehead.

...okay, that's sounding like a bit of a stretch, assuming that this isn't something that takes place solely in prison. Because even in Russia and other former Soviet states, the means to remove tattoos isn't exactly rare. It sounds like an awful lot of work for something that can be undone with relative ease.

It's too much to go into here, but rest assured that in the Russian mob at least, tattoos have a very particular importance placed on them. Each tattoo is a badge of honour that tells people something particular about that individual: how many people they've killed, how many years they've served in prison, etc.

I guess it's the thinking-criminal in me that sees the potential problems with that, particularly the "People I've murdered" one. I hope it's at least A) more subtle and B) less stupid-looking than the 'teardrop' tattoos with the same message.

And to tie it back to the thread, it's not that different from how the Yakuza operate. Yes, they are different gangs operating in different parts of the world, but fundamentally the both use tattoos as a means of identifying each other. The fact that the Yakuza have specific tattoo shops which specialise in specific designs serves to show that, while it may not be identical to the system used by the Vors, they place a strong emphasis themselves on using tattoos as a way of standing in solidarity with each other.

But in this case, my previously-mentioned point about location and patterns comes back. Hell, unless Japanese prisons have fully-functioning tattoos parlors in them, the fact that their tattoos are almost universally elaborate murals says volumes about their differences in customs from that of the Russian mob.