Japanese Pop Stars Accused of Racism

[Tom Phoenix]

EDIT: Double post bug still in effect...

 

[YuheJi]

I'm trying to be as non-racially-insensitive as I can when I say this, but I guess I don't get why a Japanese woman slanting her eyes looks like a Korean? Then again, I tend to have trouble telling different Asian races apart, but that's mainly a fault of my own.

Still, Uncle Hitler? How could they have thought that would go over well?

i feel bad for saying this but i didnt really know that there was any difference in the different asian races.

There are minor differences, but I hadn't heard of Koreans being more "slanty-eyed" before. However, it isn't hard to see why it would cause an uproar. Japan is pretty well known for belittling the other Asian countries (Korea, China, etc.).

 

[dex-dex]

Korean person = Fine

Hitler = HOLY SHIT OMG NO!

Seriously...Hitler?

exhibit A


would you like some jello hitler?

 

[Something Amyss]

i feel bad for saying this but i didnt really know that there was any difference in the different asian races.

Not sure that's something to feel bad about.

And yeah, the "Korean" cracks kind of pale compared to the "Uncle Hitler" bit.

 

[fulano]

Dumbness is universal. Long live Japan.

 

[Erana]

The Hitler thing? I dunno about that, but the Japanese's view of Koreans is kinda like American's view of people from Mexico and South America.
I'm suprised there's been that much backlash from this. I suppose this IS the West's view on the matter, though.

Thats crap because South Korea is basically Japan with a powerful military. Are you sure Canada is the word you were looking for? Maybe its how Canadians view Americans?

I graduated with a minor in Asian studies. My professor (who I TA'd for) dedicated his +40 year career in Asian studies to Japan in particular. I have been to Japan twice for academic purposes. When I was in some of the major contemporary art museums in Tokyo, there were several displays focusing on the issue of Japanese-Korean relations, and well over half of these were even translated into English (Often by the artists themselves) when dealing with written or verbal language.
In other words, I got my understanding straight from the horse's mouth.

That being said, Koreans have, in recent Japanese history, looked down on Korea. Part of this stems from a general ethnocentricity. Just ask a Japanese person about the drastically declining population. They'll voice their concern, but if you bring up the idea of allowing non-Japanese people to immigrate, they'll be appalled at the thought. Even half-Japanese, or people of Japanese descent born/raised elsewhere are likely to receive the cold shoulder. Sure, they can visit, but Live in Japan as a permanent residence?
Also, World War II is still affecting these matters- the imperialism of the Japanese during this time in history was so extreme, the Koreans (And Chinese, and anyone else they decided to take over) were declared in the public mind to be sub-human. Just look up the Rape of Nanking to see the kinda things they did. They shoehorned Japanese everything over the people they conquered, outlawing the native language, and renaming the entire population.

A big strain on the Japan-Korea relationship is that the Japanese never apologized. Only now, as generations put space between the country and the war crimes of the past have the countries begun to make ammends. The Japanese also shipped Koreans to Japan to be used as a workforce. This has led to a group of Korean-Japanese people who often feel compelled to hide their identity, and struggle to be accepted by the Japanese. Interestingly enough, though, these people have helped ignite the popularity that South Korean media had in the youth culture of Japan. While this has wained, all those South Korean boy bands 'n such really helped the relationship between the two countries.

But the point still remains- the Japanese want outsiders to GTFO, and generally view themselves as a bit better than the rest of the world. Both of these count doubly for the Koreans due to these historical circumstances.

 

[UberNoodle]

Stupid? Yes. Racist? Yes, though unintentially. Something to vilify Japan for? Not at all. As said above, Miss Cyrus did the same thing and upset the Chinese. There are frequent examples of unintentional racism all over the world.

As for racism against Koreans in Japan, of course there is. There will be predjudice whereever cultures meet. I've been living in Japan for almost a decade now, and while I do hear some commentary against Chinese and Koreans, it is most often from the older generation. Therefore, is it any different than my home country? No. So many elderly have very little friendly to say abouty many other cultures. They are a product of their "small-world" time.

So, yes, there is racism in and from Japan. Can Japan be painted in a bad light historically? Yes. Is history as simple as that? No. Is the predjudice a majority factor? No. Does the predjudice only go one way? Not at all. Korean, Chinese and Japanese gov'ts are constantly taking shots at each other. Rightwingers in each country are always finding ways to offend each other. Revisionist history, right wing stunts, political baiting, etc, all run rampant. So, various entities in Korea are having a field day with this news, especially the Right. In a whille, some Korean celebrity will put their foot in it too, and the roles will be reversed.

 

[Narcogen]

The Hitler thing? I dunno about that, but the Japanese's view of Koreans is kinda like American's view of people from Mexico and South America.
I'm suprised there's been that much backlash from this. I suppose this IS the West's view on the matter, though.

Thats crap because South Korea is basically Japan with a powerful military. Are you sure Canada is the word you were looking for? Maybe its how Canadians view Americans?

Just because there is no basis in fact for making that comparison doesn't mean that it isn't made.

Just because Asian nationalities look more alike than dissimilar to others, doesn't mean they don't, or wouldn't, discriminate amongst themselves based on physical differences.

As for the Hitler thing-- Germany and Japan were allies, and I imagine that's an attempt to appeal to pre-war greatness nostalgia. If Nazism held no appeal even today, Germany wouldn't need to ban mention of it.

 

[UberNoodle]

The Hitler thing? I dunno about that, but the Japanese's view of Koreans is kinda like American's view of people from Mexico and South America.
I'm suprised there's been that much backlash from this. I suppose this IS the West's view on the matter, though.

But the point still remains- the Japanese want outsiders to GTFO, and generally view themselves as a bit better than the rest of the world. Both of these count doubly for the Koreans due to these historical circumstances.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment of that particular statement. I have been living in Japan for a long time, and I have not felt racism or predjudice in any real way. So many Westerners who come here, have vivid imaginations. We tend to think in terms of racism due to our own cultures' struggles with such issues. We assume the worst when we don't understand what is being said. Japan is for the most part monocultural. It has a language only spoken within its borders. It has a culture that developed in relative isolation for thousands of years. It has also, as you said, emmerged only recently from powerful imperialism. Not so long ago, it was a feudal society with a caste system. You've visited Japan and gotten one man's interpretation of Japan. You've no doubt studied. However, the way you see Japan is not at all how I see her.

It is amazing that in the short time since opening her doors to the world, she has become what she is today. The rapid adoption of foreign ideas, culture and practices is unprecendented. In that short period, she underwent a time of foreign conquest, becoming a formiddle military force. She was all but destroyed by the Second World War, and yet leapt back, becoming a formiddle force in manufacturing, trade and the world economy. It amazes me that she and her people have grown so much and to me, the fabric of Japanese society is forever changing. That's why, I find your appraisal of her quite limiting, and a disservice.

Japan does have inequality, but if your litmus test for racial equality is the USA, or some similar Western nation, then I can't help but see problems with that. For starters, as much as Western nations proclaim to have multicultures, they essentially demand fluent English use as the only means to reach true, pervasive success with in them. How many non-English speaking CEOs are there in your country? Probably none. Yet, English is a language already exported to hundreds of countries all over the world. It is the official language of hundreds of countries. Can the same be said for Japanese?

Can Japan be a multiculture and still retain its language and cultural identity? The USA, for example, began as an immigrant culture and will always be an immigrant culture. Where is the edict that all nations must release their heritages for pluralism? Surely it is the right of each country to decide this. As foreigners, we have no claim on Japan. We have to do as the Romans do, so to speak. However, so many non-Asian immigrants to Japan DO NOT, do as the Romans do. They fail to learn Japanese. They treat their stay as temporary and therefore run amok. I say this from experience. It is not exactly hyperbole.

Multiculture is impossible without common language. Without communication and sharing, understanding is immpossible, therefore predjudice is inevitable. It would be unfair to demand that Japan become an English speaking nation in order to accomodate the minority of foreigners wishing to live here. Yet, until enough foreigners speak Japanese, partake in Japanese culture, engage in JApanese community activities and life, etc; there will be fear and misunderstanding.

Therefore, I don't think that Japan can be so easily vilified for its issues with race and equality for foreign residents. It is not a country like the USA, in the slightest. It is so often the Western immigrants who complain, but perhaps it is because they have never experienced what being an immigrant to an alien country is like, until now.

HOWEVER, the big CAVEAT is this: Japan, China and Korea have a long history together, and it is much much much longer than the World Wars. Many outsiders looking in, seem to forget that. Ties are ancient between these peoples. For example, both the Japanese and the Koreans can get a blue spot on their back as babies (so do Mongolians), which goes away as they get older. Japanese, Korean (and Mongolian) share many linguistic similiarities. Zen Buddhism, the dominant type in Japan, was imported to Japan via Korea.

While Imperial Japan are responsible for some terrible acts in modern history, we can't label that as the entirety of cultural interactions between the three peoples. The issue is not that simple, and therefore not a black and white issue of apologies and forgiveness. The cruel treatment of Koreans in Japan is shameful, and like other nations with the same dark patches of immigration history, Japan have done much to rectify these, such giving citizenship to these ethnic koreans.

So in closing, and I'm sorry for going on and on, the multiculture ideal of the West will be slow going in nations such as Japan, and I would wager, any nations that have isolated culture and language. Great offenses were committed by Japan during the wars and offensive, but that is truly RECENT history, far too fresh in the culture to be quickly resolved, even by now. Add to that the ancient history, feelings of entitlement and betrayal some of which are hundreds or thousands of years old.

 

[binvjoh]

I was gonna "defend" them. Then I read the Hitler part.

Though they're not racist, just stupid.

 

[UberNoodle]

The Hitler thing? I dunno about that, but the Japanese's view of Koreans is kinda like American's view of people from Mexico and South America.
I'm suprised there's been that much backlash from this. I suppose this IS the West's view on the matter, though.

As for the Hitler thing-- Germany and Japan were allies, and I imagine that's an attempt to appeal to pre-war greatness nostalgia. If Nazism held no appeal even today, Germany wouldn't need to ban mention of it.

They weren't allies ideologically, however. The Japanese did not subscribe to the Nazi's persecution of the Jews, hence, there is a large population of Jews in Kobe, or at least there were. Many of them were in Japan, under the protection of Kobe, from Germany. A Japanese diplomat in Europe organised thousands (I think, or at least hundreds) of visas out of Europe via Japan, to escape the Nazis. YOu don't hear about him much as he flies in the face of how certain entities would like to paint war-time Japan.

When you talk about using Hitler for comedic purposes, one only has to look at Western culture's constant lampooning of him in media, personal conversation and language. A "hitler" or "nazi" is now a person too strict. The hitler debarcle with that Japanese pop-star was a misunderstanding born of youthful ignorance. It happens all the time, especially today where no taboo is immune, and there are no "sacred cows" so to speak. It wasn't due to a pining for war-time nostaligia or some such nationalism.

 

[The Random One]

I find it hilarious that Japanese make slanty eyes to look Korean (since we Westerns make slanty eyes to look Japanese). Broad generalizations are always stupid, so don't make generalizations, broad. (I couldn't help myself.)

As for Hitler it's weird to think that he's only considered the embassador of evil here in the west, but it's true. There was actually a Hitler-themed restaurant somewhere on Southeast Asia. It took down its weird decor after Jewish groups complained (while here in the West there would be riots on the street).

It's a big leap for that to consider Hitler a good guy, but I bet that if you didn't know his history you'd think of him as 'mustache guy'.

 

[Benny Blanco]

The Hitler thing? I dunno about that, but the Japanese's view of Koreans is kinda like American's view of people from Mexico and South America.
I'm suprised there's been that much backlash from this. I suppose this IS the West's view on the matter, though.

But the point still remains- the Japanese want outsiders to GTFO, and generally view themselves as a bit better than the rest of the world. Both of these count doubly for the Koreans due to these historical circumstances.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment of that particular statement. I have been living in Japan for a long time, and I have not felt racism or predjudice in any real way. So many Westerners who come here, have vivid imaginations. We tend to think in terms of racism due to our own cultures' struggles with such issues. We assume the worst when we don't understand what is being said. Japan is for the most part monocultural. It has a language only spoken within its borders. It has a culture that developed in relative isolation for thousands of years. It has also, as you said, emmerged only recently from powerful imperialism. Not so long ago, it was a feudal society with a caste system. You've visited Japan and gotten one man's interpretation of Japan. You've no doubt studied. However, the way you see Japan is not at all how I see her.

It is amazing that in the short time since opening her doors to the world, she has become what she is today. The rapid adoption of foreign ideas, culture and practices is unprecendented. In that short period, she underwent a time of foreign conquest, becoming a formiddle military force. She was all but destroyed by the Second World War, and yet leapt back, becoming a formiddle force in manufacturing, trade and the world economy. It amazes me that she and her people have grown so much and to me, the fabric of Japanese society is forever changing. That's why, I find your appraisal of her quite limiting, and a disservice.

Japan does have inequality, but if your litmus test for racial equality is the USA, or some similar Western nation, then I can't help but see problems with that. For starters, as much as Western nations proclaim to have multicultures, they essentially demand fluent English use as the only means to reach true, pervasive success with in them. How many non-English speaking CEOs are there in your country? Probably none. Yet, English is a language already exported to hundreds of countries all over the world. It is the official language of hundreds of countries. Can the same be said for Japanese?

Can Japan be a multiculture and still retain its language and cultural identity? The USA, for example, began as an immigrant culture and will always be an immigrant culture. Where is the edict that all nations must release their heritages for pluralism? Surely it is the right of each country to decide this. As foreigners, we have no claim on Japan. We have to do as the Romans do, so to speak. However, so many non-Asian immigrants to Japan DO NOT, do as the Romans do. They fail to learn Japanese. They treat their stay as temporary and therefore run amok. I say this from experience. It is not exactly hyperbole.

Multiculture is impossible without common language. Without communication and sharing, understanding is immpossible, therefore predjudice is inevitable. It would be unfair to demand that Japan become an English speaking nation in order to accomodate the minority of foreigners wishing to live here. Yet, until enough foreigners speak Japanese, partake in Japanese culture, engage in JApanese community activities and life, etc; there will be fear and misunderstanding.

Therefore, I don't think that Japan can be so easily vilified for its issues with race and equality for foreign residents. It is not a country like the USA, in the slightest. It is so often the Western immigrants who complain, but perhaps it is because they have never experienced what being an immigrant to an alien country is like, until now.

HOWEVER, the big CAVEAT is this: Japan, China and Korea have a long history together, and it is much much much longer than the World Wars. Many outsiders looking in, seem to forget that. Ties are ancient between these peoples. For example, both the Japanese and the Koreans can get a blue spot on their back as babies (so do Mongolians), which goes away as they get older. Japanese, Korean (and Mongolian) share many linguistic similiarities. Zen Buddhism, the dominant type in Japan, was imported to Japan via Korea.

While Imperial Japan are responsible for some terrible acts in modern history, we can't label that as the entirety of cultural interactions between the three peoples. The issue is not that simple, and therefore not a black and white issue of apologies and forgiveness. The cruel treatment of Koreans in Japan is shameful, and like other nations with the same dark patches of immigration history, Japan have done much to rectify these, such giving citizenship to these ethnic koreans.

So in closing, and I'm sorry for going on and on, the multiculture ideal of the West will be slow going in nations such as Japan, and I would wager, any nations that have isolated culture and language. Great offenses were committed by Japan during the wars and offensive, but that is truly RECENT history, far too fresh in the culture to be quickly resolved, even by now. Add to that the ancient history, feelings of entitlement and betrayal some of which are hundreds or thousands of years old.

I think it's a bit difficult to describe the Japanese portrayal of Koreans as "racism" when they are such a closely linked race - in DNA terms they are about as close as you can get, given the long-term trend of immigration from the Korean peninsula to Japan (the first emperor is said to be descended from Korean nobility as well). A European equivalent might well be English and Dutch: racially and linguistically very close but still culturally different.

In a word, this is xenophobia rather than actual racism. Both Japan and Korea are pretty bad on that score.

As for the Hitler thing, I really don't know what that country thinks of the man. After all, they were allied to him (curiously, he thought that Japanese society was the only one which Jews could not take over, for some reason or other, so declaring them honourary Aryans - another loaded and inaccurate term) during the war and the post-war Japanese recognition of the bad things the Axis powers did was a little bit overshadowed in their minds by the fact that two major cities were vapourised. It took decades for the Japanese government to make even the most half-hearted official apology for their actions towards other Asian nations (including but not limited to: murder, rape, slavery, theft) simply because most Japanese thought that they were the victims of the Americans- 2 nuclear explosions and an occupation during which your country is practically dismantled will do that.

Add this to the broad Japanese self-perception as a superior people to those around them and it's not all that shocking that wacky "Uncle Hitler" references show up. After all, when you remove the horrific impact of his actions and the realisation that his ideas about race were horribly flawed pseudoscience, Hitler becomes just a funny-looking man in a distinctive costume.

 

[Mrrrgggrlllrrrg]

They should draw Uncle Busey, he's the best kind of uncle next to Uncle Ted Nugent.

 

[Lt. Vinciti]

Wait...

Asian people can be "racist" to other asian people....

HOLY CRAP....

 

[UberNoodle]

snipped

Thank you for that great post. Yes, xenophobia is the best word. You added some more examples of the close ties between the two peoples. I would say that much of the offense between them is around a sense of betrayal and entitlement, perhaps, after such a long history together. We can't look at their history by isolating only recent events or those events supportive of our particular agendas. Like any relationship, theirs is a continuum, and possibly could be overcome by a good session of make up sex.

As for the Hitler stuff, go up to post 52. Search for "They weren't allies ideologically, however. The Japanese did not subscribe to the Nazi's persecution of the Jews" in the thread. There's a very interesting story about the Jews of Kobe, sheilded from the Nazis, enabled to escape to there by a Japanese diplomat. The "superior Japanese" was a product of imperial propaganda due mostly to the divine origins of the imperial family purported by Shinto. Please read post 52. I am certain that "uncle hitler" was nothing more than childish ignorance, and it is nothing more "offensive" or "insensitive" than what Youtubers do daily with Hitlter and Naziism.

The Japanese today don't so much see themselves superior. It's more that they see their culture as inherently "hard to understand" for outsiders. I see this as just a cute display of inexperience. The Japanese haven't really had much experience with multiculturalism, so they find it hard to believe such a unique culture as theirs be understood by outsiders. They'll learn. The youngster already are, and many are now going the other way, developing a severe cultural cringe. I can indentify with that. I'm Aussie. But Australians are now becomming nationalistic .. again.

Anyway, bear in mind, that after WW2, Japan was occupied by Allied forces, and thus Japanese media and news was restricted from discussing the war and even the implications of the bombs. This ban was long enough to greatly stunt the culture's ability to deal with their "Imperialist ghosts". The Japanese importance on the needs of the group, and the ethic of "shikataganai" ("it can't be helped"), are perhaps the central things that allows the Japanese to just turn their backs on what's not working and change direction, suddenly. And it is their ability to work together, for the sake of the whole, that allows them to make these changes quickly and together.

Most Japanese didn't know what was happening during the war. The government practised extreme propaganda, and the people, conditioned by it, believed it, for the most part. What other choice did they have? Jail? Death? Yes, in some cases. It is the same focus on the whole in Japanese culture which also made the propaganda almost instantly pervasive - dissent is difficult in a group culture. Think about it positively though. They are a small island nation, still involved in practices ancestor worship, as well as indigenous animistic spirituality. The idea that all people must pull together, as one, for all were connected and confined together, was logical.

And honne and tatemae - "true feeling" and "outward feeling" plays a huge part in allowing propaganda to take hold as truth, and also to limit the level of post war expression, at least directly, on Japan's actions as a military and gov't, and on Japan's experiences as a poeple. Of course, there was also the Allies restrictions on discussion of the war and the bombs. Japan's therefore unspoken suffering, shame, guilt and confusion (most civilians had no idea what was really happening outside of the country), met with its new dedication to forge a better nation. Perhaps there was no room for the Past anymore, once at the threshold of the "New Japan". Japan then did an amazing turn around, becoming what it is today. That might not have been possble had society been torn into factions by retrospection and a fixation on the past. I'm not saying that this was the right thing to do, but then again, what is "right" anyway

I hope my post wasn't too long for you.

 

[boholikeu]

But the point still remains- the Japanese want outsiders to GTFO, and generally view themselves as a bit better than the rest of the world. Both of these count doubly for the Koreans due to these historical circumstances.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment of that particular statement. I have been living in Japan for a long time, and I have not felt racism or predjudice in any real way.

You are quite lucky. I don't think that there are many other non-Japanese living in Japan that feel the same way you do.

I agree with you that there are probably a lot of people that mistake cultural differences for racism, or misinterpret things do to a language barrier, but just because you personally have never felt prejudiced against doesn't mean it's not a problem.

Also, (and you don't have to answer this question if you don't want to) are you white? If so, have you noticed a difference in how people in Japan treat you as opposed to foreigners of other races?

It's not racism. Korean is NOT A RACE.

God I hate it when people use the word racism incorrectly. The word you're looking for is prejudice.

You obviously don't live in Asia. Here people consider nationality to be essentially synonymous with race.