Japanese Pop Stars Accused of Racism

UberNoodle

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boholikeu said:
UberNoodle said:
Erana said:
But the point still remains- the Japanese want outsiders to GTFO, and generally view themselves as a bit better than the rest of the world. Both of these count doubly for the Koreans due to these historical circumstances.
I wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment of that particular statement. I have been living in Japan for a long time, and I have not felt racism or predjudice in any real way.
You are quite lucky. I don't think that there are many other non-Japanese living in Japan that feel the same way you do.

I agree with you that there are probably a lot of people that mistake cultural differences for racism, or misinterpret things do to a language barrier, but just because you personally have never felt prejudiced against doesn't mean it's not a problem.

Also, (and you don't have to answer this question if you don't want to) are you white? If so, have you noticed a difference in how people in Japan treat you as opposed to foreigners of other races?
Well by the same token, that just because somebody has collected some bad stories, it is illogical to assume that those stories are the entirety of foreigners' experiences in Japan. It is even more dangerous to try to blanket the entire people of Japan with those stories, especially to imply that those stories represent a majority. I did not set out to say that there was no racism in Japan. I set out to say that the blanket statements that abound in English speaking forums whenever Japan's moral fibre is on topic, are quite often incorrect, and based solely on anecdotes and blanket statements. It is like using the cherry picked racists, the KKK, Christine O'Donnell and the Westborough Baptist Church as an indicative cross section of American attitudes.

And it is not just myself who would tell you the same thing that I did above. The amount of people calling racism in Japan are a very small part of the total foreigners (this does not include the generational foreign populace, many of whom have been granted citizenship or permanent residency) I have met and do meet regularly. The Japanese have as much potential for racism and predjudice as the average American or whoever, does. The difference is that in a nation like the USA, the racism is masked or so far buried that is difficult to detect and label so. What would a survey of the white populace show if one of the questions involved feeling tension when approached by black people? Many Japanese may answer the same way, but would it be for the same reasons?

The attitude that anecdotal evidence and the actions of individuals defines the nature of the whole populace, is in essence a falacy. When that data is taken to indicate that "if Japanese, is racist", then that is actually racism. In the USA, for example, poeple see different races every day. They are exposed to it constantly, on TV, on the street and in the office. In Japan, that is not so. For the most part, the language of the nation severely retards successful immigration. Perhaps statistics would show that allegations of racism lean towards poeple not yet able to communicate or relate to the Japanese.

The Japanese see the other cultures mostly via TV, media and occasional travel. Yet they enjoy a foreign culture in vast amounts. It is now a myth that "Americana rules". That is not so, and perhaps was only so for a short time, or in some American egos. The Japanese flock to new culture, for this has been their way since the opening up of their country not so long ago. Learning and adaptation, yet retaining what makes their culture unique. But as I said, that latter part is not surprising in that so few people outside of Japan can speak Japanese fluently, and so few Japanese can speak other languages fluently.

So, yes, I am white, and yes, there is more predjudice leveled at other Asians and Black people. Towards Asians, it is mostly an old fashioned predjudice with deep roots in history. Towards black people, it may even have been inherited by early exposure to American ideals of that time. More often than not, Japanese tell me that it is just the "look". They are unfamiliar to them. So different to anybody else they see on a daily basis, and they are so often so much taller and larger. For those poeple is not a matter of race, and therefore can be overcome.

My goal is to show the other side of the coin being shown by other posters, and that side is no exception to the rule. I have my own long experience and the collected experience of hundreds of other foreigners I have encountered, as well those of thousands of Japanese I have interacted with. I live here and I feel Japan thriving around me every day. There is no way that a statement that "Japan is racist" can be justified, and there's no way that direct comparison to the multicultural situations of post colonial nations, or of landlocked Eurpean nations, is suitable. That was my goal.
 

Scrythe

Premium Gasoline
Jun 23, 2009
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Greg Tito said:
Reina Tanaka, member of the sixth generation of Japanese girl group Morning Musume
Why do I find this the most disturbing part of this entire article? Japan has generations of the same pop band. Could you imagine the horror you would feel if it said "memeber or the sixth generation of American pop group New Kids On The Block"? Or TLC? Hanson?

Fuck, man.
 

Ghengis John

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Dec 16, 2007
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But isn't that just the cutest little Hitler that you've ever seen? I mean come on guys! Okay, honestly though I do doubt the Hello Hitler pencil cases will be big sellers.
 

Gamegodtre

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Aug 24, 2009
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Tsaba said:
Uncle Hitler? Seriously? All the other crap is just trivial compared to that last bit.
Upbeat Zombie said:
The Korean bit was fine but the Hitler part was pretty messed up.
technically they were allies with germany in the war and secondly it wasnt Hitler who dropped atomic bombs on them i would find it more odd for them to draw pictures of Uncle Sam,
also funniest thing to do to Hitler is call him Uncle Hitler

Popido said:
First thing that I thought after reading this.
http://www.meh.ro/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/meh.ro4915.jpgOh Japan, you crack me up lil' buddy.
what is this from i have to read it, on a side note who the hell thought of Super Aryan?
 

Onyx Oblivion

Borderlands Addict. Again.
Sep 9, 2008
17,032
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Well, that's some fancy new coding. Don't mind if I do try it for myself.

[gallery=42]

Also, that's totally fucked up.
 

faceless chick

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Sep 19, 2009
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do asians making fun of asians amount to racism?
if i make fun of a texan, am i racist?

btw, japan makes fun of EVERYONE around them (look at their portrayal of chinese people), this is hardly new.

the hitler thing though is kinda creepy.
 

cefm

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Mar 26, 2010
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Teach them sensitivity? Why?

They're being marketed towards Japanese, who are massively racist (about themselves and pretty much everyone else). If what they're doing reflects the prevailing cultural beliefs in the culture they belong to and are being marketed to, then what's the problem? You can complain about the bigotry in the Japanese culture, but it sure as hell isn't the fault of some no-talent trash-pop group.
 

elbowlick

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Jul 1, 2009
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UberNoodle said:
elbowlick said:
As for the Hitler thing-Koreans have fucking restuarants named after the guy.
I would like to actually see more than anecdotal evidence of that, and the use of the word's intent, if you don't mind. I'm interested.

Anyway, I don't really think that any regular Web user can say much about the appropriation of Hitler's name, when doing is a long-standing Internet meme.
I'm assuming these aren't shopped:

http://image2.linkinn.com/userfile/pictures_1004/Image/Hitler_Themed_Restaurant_in_Asia_21.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1199/867407368_5c22912abb_o.jpg
 

Nesutaa

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Nov 9, 2009
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This doesnt surprise me at all. There are times when I genuinely think Japan does not know what other people look like. Just look at most of the black people they've put in their games...
 

boholikeu

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Aug 18, 2008
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UberNoodle said:
boholikeu said:
UberNoodle said:
Erana said:
But the point still remains- the Japanese want outsiders to GTFO, and generally view themselves as a bit better than the rest of the world. Both of these count doubly for the Koreans due to these historical circumstances.
I wholeheartedly disagree with the sentiment of that particular statement. I have been living in Japan for a long time, and I have not felt racism or predjudice in any real way.
You are quite lucky. I don't think that there are many other non-Japanese living in Japan that feel the same way you do.

I agree with you that there are probably a lot of people that mistake cultural differences for racism, or misinterpret things do to a language barrier, but just because you personally have never felt prejudiced against doesn't mean it's not a problem.

Also, (and you don't have to answer this question if you don't want to) are you white? If so, have you noticed a difference in how people in Japan treat you as opposed to foreigners of other races?
Well by the same token, that just because somebody has collected some bad stories, it is illogical to assume that those stories are the entirety of foreigners' experiences in Japan. It is even more dangerous to try to blanket the entire people of Japan with those stories, especially to imply that those stories represent a majority. I did not set out to say that there was no racism in Japan. I set out to say that the blanket statements that abound in English speaking forums whenever Japan's moral fibre is on topic, are quite often incorrect, and based solely on anecdotes and blanket statements. It is like using the cherry picked racists, the KKK, Christine O'Donnell and the Westborough Baptist Church as an indicative cross section of American attitudes.

And it is not just myself who would tell you the same thing that I did above. The amount of people calling racism in Japan are a very small part of the total foreigners (this does not include the generational foreign populace, many of whom have been granted citizenship or permanent residency) I have met and do meet regularly. The Japanese have as much potential for racism and predjudice as the average American or whoever, does. The difference is that in a nation like the USA, the racism is masked or so far buried that is difficult to detect and label so. What would a survey of the white populace show if one of the questions involved feeling tension when approached by black people? Many Japanese may answer the same way, but would it be for the same reasons?

The attitude that anecdotal evidence and the actions of individuals defines the nature of the whole populace, is in essence a falacy. When that data is taken to indicate that "if Japanese, is racist", then that is actually racism. In the USA, for example, poeple see different races every day. They are exposed to it constantly, on TV, on the street and in the office. In Japan, that is not so. For the most part, the language of the nation severely retards successful immigration. Perhaps statistics would show that allegations of racism lean towards poeple not yet able to communicate or relate to the Japanese.

The Japanese see the other cultures mostly via TV, media and occasional travel. Yet they enjoy a foreign culture in vast amounts. It is now a myth that "Americana rules". That is not so, and perhaps was only so for a short time, or in some American egos. The Japanese flock to new culture, for this has been their way since the opening up of their country not so long ago. Learning and adaptation, yet retaining what makes their culture unique. But as I said, that latter part is not surprising in that so few people outside of Japan can speak Japanese fluently, and so few Japanese can speak other languages fluently.

So, yes, I am white, and yes, there is more predjudice leveled at other Asians and Black people. Towards Asians, it is mostly an old fashioned predjudice with deep roots in history. Towards black people, it may even have been inherited by early exposure to American ideals of that time. More often than not, Japanese tell me that it is just the "look". They are unfamiliar to them. So different to anybody else they see on a daily basis, and they are so often so much taller and larger. For those poeple is not a matter of race, and therefore can be overcome.

My goal is to show the other side of the coin being shown by other posters, and that side is no exception to the rule. I have my own long experience and the collected experience of hundreds of other foreigners I have encountered, as well those of thousands of Japanese I have interacted with. I live here and I feel Japan thriving around me every day. There is no way that a statement that "Japan is racist" can be justified, and there's no way that direct comparison to the multicultural situations of post colonial nations, or of landlocked Eurpean nations, is suitable. That was my goal.
Actually, I agree with most of what you say above. I was pretty much responding to the "I have been living in Japan for a long time, and I have not felt racism or predjudice in any real way" statement, and the implication afterward that any foreigner that does complain about prejudice is just "misunderstanding something about the language or the culture". I found that bit just as surprising as if a minority in America had said the same thing with "minority" replaced for "foreigner".

For the record, I don't think Japan is a racist country (at least, not any more so than America, my home country), but I do think it's a bit naive to imply that racism isn't a problem here. It is, just as it is a problem is many other countries around the world, America included. I realize that you probably only made the above statements in response to the anti-Japanese stereotyping and backlash here, but it still felt a little too apologist for me.

In regards to racism in general, I think there's a big difference between simple ignorance and actual malicious bigotry. The former is certainly more forgivable, and I think it probably constitutes much of what foreigners experience over here. I think that was pretty much your point, and that we can't view racism here in the same way we view it back in the West. I agree with that, so long as you also agree that it shouldn't be ignored. After all, even if the root of a racist action/statement is simple ignorance, it still need to be corrected. It's not right to give someone a free pass to say whatever they want simply because they didn't grow up in a multicultural environment.
 

UberNoodle

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elbowlick said:
UberNoodle said:
elbowlick said:
As for the Hitler thing-Koreans have fucking restuarants named after the guy.
I would like to actually see more than anecdotal evidence of that, and the use of the word's intent, if you don't mind. I'm interested.

Anyway, I don't really think that any regular Web user can say much about the appropriation of Hitler's name, when doing is a long-standing Internet meme.
I'm assuming these aren't shopped:
Hm, very interesting. That was in Mumbai. The name only lasted a short while before being changed to Cross Cafe. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_Cafe) Worth noting that the swastika is pretty much identical as a symbol synonymous with Hindu and Buddhism. I remember some people in the UK comlaining when English monks had a procession somewhere. Think about it: shaved heads and that symbol.

The third picture, I think the jury should remain out on that. Does a moustache like that always mean Hitler? Could he not just be an old man?

Anyway, I wonder about things this way: with the fervor shown by Western kids for lampooning Hitler (the YouTube videos expecially) and turning him into an moronic caricature, perhaps it is only Western history that keep him human and real. Removing that, perhaps we'd see the current youth culture around Hitler emerge in signage or cafe names as well. I'm certain that his use in Asia has almost nothing to do with anti-semitism or anything like that. He's something alien there, but known as controversial and flagrant, and clearly quite detached from their own realities. To Western kids, the same thing is happening. Hitler isn't the cruel dictator their parents and grandparents know. He's a buffoon that says "No no no" about pop-culture, or rants and raves about it in his war-room. In a few generations, will be as potent a symbol as Kaiser Wilhelm II or whoever, is today?
 

UberNoodle

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boholikeu said:
Actually, I agree with most of what you say above. I was pretty much responding to the "I have been living in Japan for a long time, and I have not felt racism or predjudice in any real way" statement, and the implication afterward that any foreigner that does complain about prejudice is just "misunderstanding something about the language or the culture". I found that bit just as surprising as if a minority in America had said the same thing with "minority" replaced for "foreigner".

For the record, I don't think Japan is a racist country (at least, not any more so than America, my home country), but I do think it's a bit naive to imply that racism isn't a problem here. It is, just as it is a problem is many other countries around the world, America included. I realize that you probably only made the above statements in response to the anti-Japanese stereotyping and backlash here, but it still felt a little too apologist for me.

In regards to racism in general, I think there's a big difference between simple ignorance and actual malicious bigotry. The former is certainly more forgivable, and I think it probably constitutes much of what foreigners experience over here. I think that was pretty much your point, and that we can't view racism here in the same way we view it back in the West. I agree with that, so long as you also agree that it shouldn't be ignored. After all, even if the root of a racist action/statement is simple ignorance, it still need to be corrected. It's not right to give someone a free pass to say whatever they want simply because they didn't grow up in a multicultural environment.
I am full agreeance with you. I wasn't trying to be apologist, but when meeting somebody else's opinion, and its far to the opposite extreme, it almost ensures that you swing to your own equivalent. We both agree that predujudice or different treatment in Japan can have many reasons behind it. The Western view is filled with personal "rights" and "freedoms" and so forth, and to not be allowed to do something or go somewhere is interpreted a suppression of those. The rationale many people come to is racism or predjudice, whichever fits best. Of course, every time that someone is excluded when others are not, is predjudice, but not every time should be viewed as a stoning offense. Sometimes being foreign is rejected in the same way as tatoos or outlandish hair would also be, for the sake of some echelon of sensitive customers, residents or people. Sadly, those gatekeepers don't seem to realise how hurtful it is to be rejected so. They seem to view the matter only for its intrusion on some social status quo, and so on. I can't believe that there's hate or maliciousness is always behind such actions. Like we agree, there is a lack of understand and appreciation for multicultural factors in Japan, and I agree that such minds should be given opportunity to broaden. Perhaps they won't, or can't, but their kids will surely. As for the real racists of Japan and any country: thankfully they are usually a minority, and they can be bred out.
 

boholikeu

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Aug 18, 2008
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UberNoodle said:
boholikeu said:
Actually, I agree with most of what you say above. I was pretty much responding to the "I have been living in Japan for a long time, and I have not felt racism or predjudice in any real way" statement, and the implication afterward that any foreigner that does complain about prejudice is just "misunderstanding something about the language or the culture". I found that bit just as surprising as if a minority in America had said the same thing with "minority" replaced for "foreigner".

For the record, I don't think Japan is a racist country (at least, not any more so than America, my home country), but I do think it's a bit naive to imply that racism isn't a problem here. It is, just as it is a problem is many other countries around the world, America included. I realize that you probably only made the above statements in response to the anti-Japanese stereotyping and backlash here, but it still felt a little too apologist for me.

In regards to racism in general, I think there's a big difference between simple ignorance and actual malicious bigotry. The former is certainly more forgivable, and I think it probably constitutes much of what foreigners experience over here. I think that was pretty much your point, and that we can't view racism here in the same way we view it back in the West. I agree with that, so long as you also agree that it shouldn't be ignored. After all, even if the root of a racist action/statement is simple ignorance, it still need to be corrected. It's not right to give someone a free pass to say whatever they want simply because they didn't grow up in a multicultural environment.
I am full agreeance with you. I wasn't trying to be apologist, but when meeting somebody else's opinion, and its far to the opposite extreme, it almost ensures that you swing to your own equivalent. We both agree that predujudice or different treatment in Japan can have many reasons behind it. The Western view is filled with personal "rights" and "freedoms" and so forth, and to not be allowed to do something or go somewhere is interpreted a suppression of those. The rationale many people come to is racism or predjudice, whichever fits best. Of course, every time that someone is excluded when others are not, is predjudice, but not every time should be viewed as a stoning offense. Sometimes being foreign is rejected in the same way as tatoos or outlandish hair would also be, for the sake of some echelon of sensitive customers, residents or people. Sadly, those gatekeepers don't seem to realise how hurtful it is to be rejected so. They seem to view the matter only for its intrusion on some social status quo, and so on. I can't believe that there's hate or maliciousness is always behind such actions. Like we agree, there is a lack of understand and appreciation for multicultural factors in Japan, and I agree that such minds should be given opportunity to broaden. Perhaps they won't, or can't, but their kids will surely. As for the real racists of Japan and any country: thankfully they are usually a minority, and they can be bred out.
Ah, good to see we've come to an agreement after all. Kind of a rarity on Internet forums. =)
 

Skorpyo

Average Person Extraordinaire!
May 2, 2010
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So, as the Japanese are (obviously) asian; then, making their eyes "Slanty"(er?) makes them, more(?) asian?

Which would mean that Koreans are the Uber-Asian?

My brain hurts.
 

The Hairminator

How about no?
Mar 17, 2009
3,231
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Brace for racism-

Arr rook same :,D

No, but seriously, I don't see why this is relevant on the Escapist.
 

The Wooster

King Snap
Jul 15, 2008
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Japanese people make their eyes slanted in order to the take the piss out of Koreans? Either racism or some seriously dry ironic humour.