Jim Sterling in court.

[Cap'nPipsqueak]

Did anyone know that there was actually a band called Digital Homicide?


Not a great recording, but they are pretty decent.

Think they'll sue Digital Homicide for using their name?

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

If you've been paying attention to their behavior, it quickly becomes apparent that the Romine Brothers have a serious case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Through the lens of genuine delusions of grandeur, their actions make sense: Of course Romine will win his lawsuits, because he's an unjustly targeted indie dev and justice will prevail. Of course he can handle all those cases at once, because he's so smart and works so hard that he can get it done (alternatively: Of course a lawyer will take his case pro-bono, after seeing how put-upon he and his brother are). And, of course, everything will work out in the end because he will be awarded all the money he asked for, and will never have to worry about anything again. He might even get a book deal when someone decides to write about his life story, and history will prove that he was right, and that big meanie-poo Jim will never make another video again.

The tragic thing is, cognitive dissonance will only strengthen his beliefs. He won't "snap out of it" and start acting rationally once he hits rock bottom; he's gonna dig in his heels, whine, wail, and gnash his teeth until he's no longer physically capable (or he finds some new target, like, say, family members).

I hesitate before diagnosing them with anything. It's just as likely if not more so that they've just invested so much into all this that turning back now is just not thinkable. Should he ever admit mistake, he may as well say that all his misery is his own doing. You can imagine how difficult that would be for anyone in his position.

 

[Mangod]

If you've been paying attention to their behavior, it quickly becomes apparent that the Romine Brothers have a serious case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Through the lens of genuine delusions of grandeur, their actions make sense: Of course Romine will win his lawsuits, because he's an unjustly targeted indie dev and justice will prevail. Of course he can handle all those cases at once, because he's so smart and works so hard that he can get it done (alternatively: Of course a lawyer will take his case pro-bono, after seeing how put-upon he and his brother are). And, of course, everything will work out in the end because he will be awarded all the money he asked for, and will never have to worry about anything again. He might even get a book deal when someone decides to write about his life story, and history will prove that he was right, and that big meanie-poo Jim will never make another video again.

The tragic thing is, cognitive dissonance will only strengthen his beliefs. He won't "snap out of it" and start acting rationally once he hits rock bottom; he's gonna dig in his heels, whine, wail, and gnash his teeth until he's no longer physically capable (or he finds some new target, like, say, family members).

I hesitate before diagnosing them with anything. It's just as likely if not more so that they've just invested so much into all this that turning back now is just not thinkable. Should he ever admit mistake, he may as well say that all his misery is his own doing. You can imagine how difficult that would be for anyone in his position.

Yeah, I wouldn't rule out the sunk-cost fallacy either. But still, you have to question their decision-making at this point - even if they win, nobody in their right mind would risk the PR nightmare that willingly doing business with them would entail.

 

[FalloutJack]

Do you think the Romines mental health state might get brought up during trial? For example, could the case be dismissed because Robert Romine is not capable of rationally dealing with criticism, i.e. he's mentally unsound?

I doubt it. A judge can't just declare someone mentally unfit. They have to have a psychological evaluation done that reveals broken mental processes. The most the judge can do under these circumstances is dismiss the case on the grounds that the case lacks merit.

I dunno. Given their behavior, even the blindest justice has to figure on there being something wrong with the mental faculties. I believe a judge can deem you incompetent, dismiss you, fine you, and tell you to get the hell out of their courtroom.

Did anyone know that there was actually a band called Digital Homicide?


Not a great recording, but they are pretty decent.

Think they'll sue Digital Homicide for using their name?

I would. Such besmirching of a band that at least produces something...

 

[Gades]

this video is by Youtuber Tarmack - he provides a little theory on DigiHom's business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX6Ge-KaoZg

Now, someone suggested to me, that there was a likely possibility the Romines never talked to a lawyer in the first place. That all was made up.

Did anyone know that there was actually a band called Digital Homicide?


Not a great recording, but they are pretty decent.

FYI, the Digital Homicide band posted a tweet a while back disclaiming to be the developer and has nothing to with them.

 

[Mangod]

If you've been paying attention to their behavior, it quickly becomes apparent that the Romine Brothers have a serious case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Through the lens of genuine delusions of grandeur, their actions make sense: Of course Romine will win his lawsuits, because he's an unjustly targeted indie dev and justice will prevail. Of course he can handle all those cases at once, because he's so smart and works so hard that he can get it done (alternatively: Of course a lawyer will take his case pro-bono, after seeing how put-upon he and his brother are). And, of course, everything will work out in the end because he will be awarded all the money he asked for, and will never have to worry about anything again. He might even get a book deal when someone decides to write about his life story, and history will prove that he was right, and that big meanie-poo Jim will never make another video again.

The tragic thing is, cognitive dissonance will only strengthen his beliefs. He won't "snap out of it" and start acting rationally once he hits rock bottom; he's gonna dig in his heels, whine, wail, and gnash his teeth until he's no longer physically capable (or he finds some new target, like, say, family members).

I hesitate before diagnosing them with anything. It's just as likely if not more so that they've just invested so much into all this that turning back now is just not thinkable. Should he ever admit mistake, he may as well say that all his misery is his own doing. You can imagine how difficult that would be for anyone in his position.

Yeah, I wouldn't rule out the sunk-cost fallacy either. But still, you have to question their decision-making at this point - even if they win, nobody in their right mind would risk the PR nightmare that willingly doing business with them would entail.

Armchair diagnosing them with NPD doesn't do that though. Plenty of people make really bad legal and business decisions without it being the result of mental illness. Plenty of people are just stupid as shit, by which I really do mean that there are shits of approximately the same intelligence. Seriously, people are absolutely dumb as hell, and you only have to go outside to find that out. Just sign into social media for a little while. It'd be extroadinarily unprofessional for a psychologist to diagnose like this, and if you're not consulting the patient nor trained in psychology, then that diagnosis is of about the same quality as DH's game making. It's just that that shitty piece of work, which is far more unethical by practice, will never see the same level of criticism. And before you take any offense to that and get aggressive in response, I'd point out that was what DH did when their game was trashed for the shoddy work. You very much would not appreciate your response being used as somehow a point against your very competence.

What you suggest, of trying to accuse them of being mentally unsound and thus their case is dismissed, is frankly kind of disturbing. a) The case fails on it's own merits. Not by calling the other person crazy. b) Having a poor reaction to criticism or being unfairly litigious is not a mental illness. If anything, it's the most normal thing in the world. c) The idea that someone being mentally ill would remove their right to litigation undermines the very foundation of a democratic state, and would actually be a violation of the constitution of the United States.

Which just leaves it as a distasteful exercise in name calling. Better to stick to what they've actually done, than what you imagine in their heads.

I was just wondering, because I didn't know whether being delusional might be a cause for dismissal - it just made sense to me that, if a person is deemed to be of unsound mind, then, much like a vexatious litigant, they'd need someone to file lawsuit in their name. But you're right, we shouldn't play hobby psychiatrist - we'll just assume that the Romines are just incredibly bad at handling criticism.

Still, being bad at handling criticism doesn't change the fact that their way of handling it really has just made them look even worse than what the quality of their products have. I stand by my point: they're a video-gaming pariah, and doing business with them would probably result in people being damned by association.

 

[Fsyco]

I was just wondering, because I didn't know whether being delusional might be a cause for dismissal - it just made sense to me that, if a person is deemed to be of unsound mind, then, much like a vexatious litigant, they'd need someone to file lawsuit in their name. But you're right, we shouldn't play hobby psychiatrist - we'll just assume that the Romines are just incredibly bad at handling criticism.

Still, being bad at handling criticism doesn't change the fact that their way of handling it really has just made them look even worse than what the quality of their products have. I stand by my point: they're a video-gaming pariah, and doing business with them would probably result in people being damned by association.

NPD's not grounds to throw out a lawsuit. This will probably get thrown out for lack of jurisdiction or lack of standing, as Jim's lawyers suggested in their motion to dismiss. Granted, he might have more of a case for standing in this second case if the alleged harassment was directed at James Romine personally, and not at his brother or his company Digital Homicide. I'll confess I've not read the complaint for the new lawsuit, but if it's anything like the last one, I imagine it's full of holes.

 

[KoalaMan412]

When going to DH's website, it seems they posted a link of a local news article that wrote about them.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/2016/09/21/yuma-digital-homicide-video-games-sue-users/90742572/

 

[Mangod]

When going to DH's website, it seems they posted a link of a local news article that wrote about them.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/2016/09/21/yuma-digital-homicide-video-games-sue-users/90742572/

Read the article. It feels a little... odd. It never really brings up the Romine brothers own, petulent behaviour during this sorry process. It's painting them as innocent victims, basically, which I doubt anyone here would consider to be accurate to reality - a lot of their problems are of their own making.

 

[KoalaMan412]

When going to DH's website, it seems they posted a link of a local news article that wrote about them.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/2016/09/21/yuma-digital-homicide-video-games-sue-users/90742572/

Read the article. It feels a little... odd. It never really brings up the Romine brothers own, petulent behaviour during this sorry process. It's painting them as innocent victims, basically, which I doubt anyone here would consider to be accurate to reality - a lot of their problems are of their own making.

Yeah, it seems this journalist didn't know the bigger picture about them or even as to why they were being "harassed" or getting death threats in the first place. Along with that, it seems the reason the Romines posted the link to this article in both their website and on twitter is to try to get some sympathy points for them to get a lawyer if possible.

 

[Elwes]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/2016/09/21/yuma-digital-homicide-video-games-sue-users/90742572/

Read the article. It feels a little... odd. It never really brings up the Romine brothers own, petulent behaviour during this sorry process. It's painting them as innocent victims, basically, which I doubt anyone here would consider to be accurate to reality - a lot of their problems are of their own making.

Very few articles, news or otherwise, are wholly accurate or provide a view of the bigger picture.

The article is from a local news outlet covering a local company and local resident who've featured in a news story that has made it onto the world wide stage.

Valve don't talk to anyone and "requests for comment" may as well be directed towards a brick wall.
The court records are a matter of public record and are usually uninteresting. Not that it stops them being misrepresented and misinterpreted : Lots of news outlets are saying the courts have issued a subpoena for Valve's records... the court hasn't. But it seems a lot of journalists just cut and paste what someone else (incorrectly) assumed.
Jim Sterling is (mostly) keeping out of it. Let's be honest, his legal advice was probably "keep your gob shut".

So they are left with James Romine to talk to. So they would have talked to him and gotten his side.

And honestly, I do empathise with Mr Romine a little (as I've mentioned repeatedly in this thread).

From his side, he's not doing anything illegal. He's developing a long list of low quality games. But if providing low quality products wasn't in demand, South Eastern Asia would probably go out of business in about a week. Plus there are a lot of other developers producing low quality games too and publishing them on Steam and none of those are being singled out.

However he crossed paths with a controversial reviewer who isn't universally liked with a larger than life persona. So he decided to make a stand when he perceived he was being attacked.

I'm sure in his mind, he was only ape'ing Jim's style and defending himself and his own choices. Jim's criticism were characteristically over the top and in some cases, factually inaccurate (claiming shutterstock purchased images were stolen from another game). I assume James Romine took it all to heart and seized upon the tone and inaccuracies, ignored the shortcomings of his own products and felt under attack and singled out. Things escalate. Teddies get thrown out of the pram. More inaccuracies get publicised as evidence of wrong doing. For example, ECC Games was ALWAYS Every Click Counts on Steam - as evidence by their steam icon which never changed. The text name on Steam was changed, I assume as a result of the criticism. But there was a narrative that somehow James Romine was "pretending" to be the "real" ECC Games. Let's ignore the fact that there's no reason why two companies can't operate with the same name, even within the same country, never mind different countries - so the idea of "real" is just story telling. The narrative got traction, the reality was left in the gutter. Again, I'm presenting a blinkered viewpoint here, ignoring the majority of missteps and failings of James Romine - because I'm attempting to see this from his side. Follow that up with Jim's "loyal" fans making his life hell - doing stuff which is downright disgusting and hugely out of proportion when compared with writing low quality games.

So now, here's James Romine. Doing nothing illegal, but being subjected to things which probably are (faeces in the mail and death threats probably are). His games which were making him a living (maybe), are now not selling (maybe). New games he publishes are jumped upon by a horde of crazy angry internet people who were never likely to buy his games in the first place and are driving away potential customers. Lots of people contributed the situation getting to where it is now. He can't go after the people who sent faeces in the post. He can't go after the internet crazies (yet). But he can go after the person he sees are most responsible for making him the poster child of everything wrong with developers and Steam, and does what the vast majority of us do and ignores how his own choices contributed.

So what is a put upon guy to do? He (or someone he's talked to) convinces him that he can demonstrate a direct relationship between his loss of income and the spotlight he finds himself in. Even moreso, when some of that spotlight's foundations are built upon provably inaccurate information spouted by the same egotistical reviewer that brought this shi*storm down on his head in the first place. Then add in that a lot of the "opinion" was written down in the form of tweets or website articles and things get a lot easier to document. Then add into the mix a perception that perhaps the egotistical reviewer is actually getting a lot of beneficial exposure from his misery and maybe even cynically seized upon a minor developer producing poor games and the situation as a whole at the outset to create an artificial controversy that he himself will benefit most from. That sort of deliberate misrepresentation and mischief, especially where it demonstrably injures a person's reputation and/or exposes that person to public hatred, contempt or ridicule, is recognised by the law... it's called "Defamation". Finally, throw in the legal situation from specific points of view allow for defamation to be true even if malice was not a contributing factor as long as some form of negligence can be shown. So now (perhaps) in James Romine's mind (and perhaps in reality) is a legal viewpoint that "Person X said/write bad things that were wrong, those bad things have resulted in demonstrably negative personal outcome and it was possible to know those wrong things were wrong, therefore deformation has occurred".

Can James Romine show that (1) a false statement was made? (2) that the false statement was communicated to a third party? (3) some form of negligence or malfeasance occurred? and that (4) all of that resulted in an element of quantifiable damages? ... Well, I guess Judge John J Tuchi will tell us.

All of which presumes that James Romine is a normal person in extraordinary circumstances, with normal human failings and a specific (and likely flawed) view of the legal situation. If he's using the courts to forestall criticism, waste people's time, cause them undue stress and perhaps even indirectly DOX people - then all bets are off.

... and I still REALLY, really hope Jim plays down his eventually victory and treats James Romine with compassion and pity rather than going for the easy target and the cheap laugh. Not least because I perceive it as both the moral high ground and probably the cruellest thing he could do.

 

[Mangod]

When going to DH's website, it seems they posted a link of a local news article that wrote about them.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/2016/09/21/yuma-digital-homicide-video-games-sue-users/90742572/

Read the article. It feels a little... odd. It never really brings up the Romine brothers own, petulent behaviour during this sorry process. It's painting them as innocent victims, basically, which I doubt anyone here would consider to be accurate to reality - a lot of their problems are of their own making.

Yeah, it seems this journalist didn't know the bigger picture about them or even as to why they were being "harassed" or getting death threats in the first place. Along with that, it seems the reason the Romines posted the link to this article in both their website and on twitter is to try to get some sympathy points for them to get a lawyer if possible.

I've actually mailed the journo in question with some stuff about what DigiHom's done over the last two years to earn their pariah status. Yeah, death threats are not something they should be recieving (nor shit in the mail), but they've done nothing to salvage their own reputation - quite the opposite; their every action just digging them deeper into the hole they're currently in. We'll see if they follow up on that article.

But if providing low quality products wasn't in demand, South Eastern Asia would probably go out of business in about a week.

Ok, I agree with a lot of what you say, but that comment?

 

[Elwes]

But if providing low quality products wasn't in demand, South Eastern Asia would probably go out of business in about a week.

Ok, I agree with a lot of what you say, but that comment?

"You just won the internet"

Bahh, I'm too old for memes. Is that good or bad?

In fairness, if you hadn't quoted it - I'd have probably edited it to say "about a quarter of [well, somewhere else]". Because I checked the maps and the majority of countries I was thinking of aren't actually in South East Asia and those same countries have a lot more going for them than just cheap low quality products.
But I got quoted, so I'm stuck with my mistake ;-p

 

[Mangod]

But if providing low quality products wasn't in demand, South Eastern Asia would probably go out of business in about a week.

Ok, I agree with a lot of what you say, but that comment?

"You just won the internet"

Bahh, I'm too old for memes. Is that good or bad?

In fairness, if you hadn't quoted it - I'd have probably edited it to say "about a quarter of [well, somewhere else]". Because I checked the maps and the majority of countries I was thinking of aren't actually in South East Asia and those same countries have a lot more going for them than just cheap low quality products.
But I got quoted, so I'm stuck with my mistake ;-p

1) It's good. You've won, after all.

2) The Arizona Republic actually got back to me about the article. Turns out they were aware of the criticism that DigiHom had recieved, and are editing the article to better reflect "the difference between earned criticism and undue harassment", since the article was written to A) talk about a local Arizona business, and B) "[have] a conversation about who will protect a person or a business from online harassment".

 

[Fsyco]

I'd like to point out that despite having an article written about them in a sympathetic light, and including a link to their GoFundMe page in said article, nobody's kicked any more money to their GFM thing.

SNIP

I have no sympathy for the Romines, because they remind me uncannily of several horrible people I know in real life. Especially since the reason that the Romines are being 'singled out' from the terrible devs on Steam is that they just can't stop picking fights and escalating things. Every other "shitty dev on Steam" story lasts maybe a week or a month at most; DH have been at this for 2 years now. Nobody cares about the Earth: Year 2066, Guise of the Wolf, Day One: Gary's Incident, or Journey of the Light developers because those people have kept themselves out of the public eye and not tried to maintain any longstanding feuds.

If he really was just a decent guy in a hard spot? He'd apologize for his behavior and try to improve his image. He wouldn't be on the war path. Filing a lawsuit against Jim probably took more time, money, and effort than it would take to just clean up his image, listen to feedback, and repair the bridges he's burned. Let's not forget that Jim was originally a similar spot when he debuted on The Escapist. His videos were widely disliked, people were angry and said things ranging from harsh criticism to abusive bile, and The Jimquisition seemed liked an overall doomed prospect. But he worked to change how people perceived him, and now he's reasonably popular and well-liked, enough so that he can fund himself through Patreon donations. What he didn't do was file spurious lawsuits or act belligerent with people.

 

[Cap'nPipsqueak]

Wait. This fuckwit is forty-six? And he acts like this?

 

[Elwes]

1) It's good. You've won, after all.

Aye.
But I won the internet. I mean. Have you SEEN the internet?
The internet makes Mos Eisley spaceport look like Shangri-La.
*shudder*

 

[Mangod]

1) It's good. You've won, after all.

Aye.
But I won the internet. I mean. Have you SEEN the internet?
The internet makes Mos Eisley spaceport look like Shangri-La.
*shudder*

No no no, you misunderstand; the Internet is the competition that you just won!

Also, the AZ article has been updated:

"Many have criticized Digital Homicide?s games for being hastily made and sold for as little as 94 cents, calling them an example of ?asset flipping,? a term coined by Jim Sterling to describe when game developers buy pre-made game assets and put them together opposed to developing full environments and characters themselves.

While not illegal, many gamers frown upon the practice as lacking artistry.

Big problems began in November 2014 when popular YouTube personality Jim Sterling posted a video of himself playing and criticizing a Digital Homicide game, and the Romines posted a video in response criticizing Sterling. They called him an (expletive) "idiot" and "moron" who will ?flap (his) stupid mouth? to create a ?useless? review.

Responses and videos flew back and forth, and Sterling's hundreds of thousands of fans began attacking the Romines and Digital Homicide.

The Romines then issued a demand for Sterling to take down his original critique video under copyright infringement, a move that many viewed as unacceptable censorship."

So it's giving a more nuanced picture of the mess that's going on.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Wait. This fuckwit is forty-six? And he acts like this?

Older people go to court for stupider reasons.

I've seen it. And it makes me want to watch my behavior all the more as I travel around the sun.
[sub][sub][sub]Never doubt the pettiness of morons.[/sub][/sub][/sub]