Dammit Jim, I was eating chocolate pudding when that last line hit and caused a redecoration of my walls. Both poems are excellent as usual, I really enjoyed the contrast Yahtzee used to demonstrate his point and Jims...ah that last line, absolute killer. Keep it up guys, no matter what anyone says we do value your hard work and it's great that you give us all these wonderful things =)
Jim & Yahtzee's Rhymedown Spectacular: Whine Out Of Ten
- Thread starter Jim And Yahtzee
- Start date
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I don't think you understand me here, because I am not really disagreeing with you. I completely agree. There are tons of games getting high scores that I don't really like. Does the metacritic rating matter? Not at all. Is it a system that we have to live with? Yes, yes it is. It's not supposed to be used like that, but sadly it is. It doesn't matter if GameSpot or Destructoid consider 7/10 good, but flawed when the system they have to work with, Metacritic, thinks otherwise. They give the game 7/10 the game will show up as yellow as in below average. It's bullshit, it shouldn't be like this, but can you really deny that it is like this?saxman234 said:
When I visit the store page on Steam I get to see the score from Metacritic. Not from Destructoid, not from GameSpot, Not The Escapist, not IGN. Metacritic. The score that a game gets on Metacritic matters. Not because the score actually gives us any kind of information, but because it shows us the general opinion and because we translate it by Metacritics standards of good and bad. Deny this if you will, it doesn't change much.
1: Your suggested system is more than less our current one. And it does not combat score inflation, nor set artistic value more in focus.Matthi205 said:
2: Story, writing, characters, plot, narrative, ....and whatever are already been objectified. There already a guide to do all this right (I know exeptions exist to every rule).
i really loved Yatzee's bit. it was very dark. i forgot he was talking about GTA and not a real robbery for most of it.
1. Yes. While it combats neither, it makes scores utterly meaningless to the general public looking for good games. It only means Obsidian titles will be rated absurdly low, too. It makes the score nearly meaningless, thus making people read reviews again and companies be less considerate of simple scoring. At least I hope so.Goliath100 said:
2. While there are plenty of examples and guides on how to get this stuff right, its effect on the player is not quantifiable. And a description of exactly this is what people that read reviews want to know.
I am not sure how much pressure all reviewers have for inflating scores. I don't think any good reviewer will admit that they inflate their scores to meet the public's view. I think we just have differing views on what the problem is. We both agree that Metacritic is not a good system, but I think it is also consumers expecting that every game they are hyped about should get a 9/10 and then get angry when it does not get that. Or worse, they refuse to buy a game they want because it only gets a 7.5 from some reviews even though if they read the text they would find out that the game is everything that they wanted. Maybe there have been more high scores recently, or maybe we just see the high scores since the usual high profile games such as CoD, Mario, Assassins Creed are each time pretty good games (maybe not to my taste but still good to most people/reviewers opinion). I don't know if there is statistics for game review scores over time or if that would even tell us anything useful, maybe games are just getting better and more games do deserve a 9.Yopaz said:
'wow Jim was pissed' Is what I'd say if I didn't under stand why. But I do, the idiots the whine about 'non conformist' scoring need to stop breathing if they don't under stand 1) one point means nothing, or 2)people have different tastes.
I'd say they need to grow up, but we all know that's never gonna happen.
and Yahtzee, that was gold :3
I'd say they need to grow up, but we all know that's never gonna happen.
and Yahtzee, that was gold :3
Jim, I'm not sure if you're aware. You just let a Troll Gang rile you up.
GTA V was targeted because of the large number of people interested in it.
I'm not talking about people who just happen to have a different option, and are belligerent.
The ones targeting you were the Andy Kaufman variety. They're doing it just to grief you.
They think it's funny, and the belligerent gamer mentally only seems to fuel their fun.
I'm not guessing at this ether. One of the Trolls is a malicious stalker troll.
He's harassed game reviewers before, and is apart of a fairly large gang.
When I pointed out one of his alt accounts was probably his he decided to stalk me.
Ironically, this gives me access to his activity, and gave me a view of his gangs harassment of you.
There are countermeasures to reduce these kinds of people, but that would be a very long and involved post.
General rule of thumb is to recognize them, and not engage. That's what they want.
Unfortunately gamers are a target rich environment for them.
GTA V was targeted because of the large number of people interested in it.
I'm not talking about people who just happen to have a different option, and are belligerent.
The ones targeting you were the Andy Kaufman variety. They're doing it just to grief you.
They think it's funny, and the belligerent gamer mentally only seems to fuel their fun.
I'm not guessing at this ether. One of the Trolls is a malicious stalker troll.
He's harassed game reviewers before, and is apart of a fairly large gang.
When I pointed out one of his alt accounts was probably his he decided to stalk me.
Ironically, this gives me access to his activity, and gave me a view of his gangs harassment of you.
There are countermeasures to reduce these kinds of people, but that would be a very long and involved post.
General rule of thumb is to recognize them, and not engage. That's what they want.
Unfortunately gamers are a target rich environment for them.
Yahtzee had me grinning like a maniac during his fast paced sections, and Jim summed up the big problems with the reveiw reactions in a wonderfully direct manner.
There are a number of things I find odd about the concept of "ludonarrative dissonance."
Leaving aside the fact that most of those games make the dissonant behaviors completely optional (so if you think the character is inconsistent, it's all too often because you're choosing to play them that way), there's also the fact that most of the critics complaining about "ludonarrative dissonance" are the artsy types interested in "The Human Condition" and verisimilitude... and yet the dissonance could easily be interpreted as the inconsistencies, hypocrisies, and hidden traits that real people have.
A lot of people DO act different in conversations (cutscenes) then they act when it comes time to actually do stuff (gameplay), and conveniently overlook past events and actions when they discuss their moral codes and their worldview. It's how people are, and it's one of the most interesting things you can explore in character drama.
Leaving aside the fact that most of those games make the dissonant behaviors completely optional (so if you think the character is inconsistent, it's all too often because you're choosing to play them that way), there's also the fact that most of the critics complaining about "ludonarrative dissonance" are the artsy types interested in "The Human Condition" and verisimilitude... and yet the dissonance could easily be interpreted as the inconsistencies, hypocrisies, and hidden traits that real people have.
A lot of people DO act different in conversations (cutscenes) then they act when it comes time to actually do stuff (gameplay), and conveniently overlook past events and actions when they discuss their moral codes and their worldview. It's how people are, and it's one of the most interesting things you can explore in character drama.
OT, thanks Jim & Yahtzee for brightening my Wednesday!A had to laugh at that last line in Jim's poem. I guess that's one of the arguments that the fanboys are pulling out, eh? "This part of the game isn't bad, because it's satire"?
In any case, I agree that the scoring system really has lost all sense of meaning, where 9s and 10s are constantly handed out so you get the feeling that anything less than a 8.5 isn't even worth bothering with. I mean, you're allowed to not like someone's else's opinion on your favorite game, but calm the fuck down, people. We're allowed to not think your favorite game is as perfect as you think it is (also remembering that many of the whiners haven't even played the damn thing to form their own perfect opinion of it anyway).
Thank god for you, Jim.
Oh and Ben, that was amazing too. Game devs need to make sure that the gameplay and storytelling aren't at odds with each other to be taken seriously. That said, there ARE benefits in just losing your rag in a sandbox game without having to deal with the consequences...
In any case, I agree that the scoring system really has lost all sense of meaning, where 9s and 10s are constantly handed out so you get the feeling that anything less than a 8.5 isn't even worth bothering with. I mean, you're allowed to not like someone's else's opinion on your favorite game, but calm the fuck down, people. We're allowed to not think your favorite game is as perfect as you think it is (also remembering that many of the whiners haven't even played the damn thing to form their own perfect opinion of it anyway).
Thank god for you, Jim.
Oh and Ben, that was amazing too. Game devs need to make sure that the gameplay and storytelling aren't at odds with each other to be taken seriously. That said, there ARE benefits in just losing your rag in a sandbox game without having to deal with the consequences...