Jimquisition: An Industry Of Pitiful Cowards

[NuclearKangaroo]

sure but again, relic has 15 years making RTS, great ones, one single failure cant possibly crumble them, specially since the funding for CoH 2 came from THQ from what i understand

theyd need many more failures before they go under

Petroglyph despite having some westwood devs, was never that good, like i said i can barely find any info on their games

So did Westwood - and I could argue that Westwood were around longer - and they pissed all their reputation and critical acclaim away until they basically ended up as an industry level joke (see: Petroglyph).

I won't lie and claim COH 2 was a Universe at War level disaster area, but it is something that needed big time damage control.

Petroglyph is not Westwood

is like putting candles on a rock and saying its a cake

 

[Sir Shockwave]

Petroglyph is not Westwood

is like putting candles on a rock and saying its a cake

Having (or once having as the case is) 50% of the former Westwood staff and being the spiritual successor company makes it - no matter how much you choose to gloss over or ignore it - a part of that story, whether you like it or not.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

Petroglyph is not Westwood

is like putting candles on a rock and saying its a cake

Having (or once having as the case is) 50% of the former Westwood staff and being the spiritual successor company makes it - no matter how much you choose to gloss over or ignore it - a part of that story, whether you like it or not.

no, is part of those people's history, not the dev, is not the same team, they arent working with the same resources or under the same direction

Petroglyph is not Westwood, even with your logic it doesnt make sense

say the other half of Westwood got together and formed another developer, would that developer also be westwood? say there was a "developer X", and some people left that developer to form Petroglyph with the guys from Westwood, would Petroglyph then be Westwood or "developer X"?

 

[Sir Shockwave]

no, is part of those people's history, not the dev, is not the same team, they arent working with the same resources or under the same direction

Petroglyph is not Westwood, even with your logic it doesnt make sense

say the other half of Westwood got together and formed another developer, would that developer also be westwood? say there was a "developer X", and some people left that developer to form Petroglyph with the guys from Westwood, would Petroglyph then be Westwood or "developer X"?

I'm sorry, but what?

The other half of Westwood was sent around to various departments of EA, to the point where I cannot be certain if any returned to work on any of the C&C games between Generals and C&C 4, and we all know how THAT ended. The factions that left over Universe at War haven't been on any projects since, and have more than likely left the games industry entirely.

Petroglyph is the spiritual successor company of Westwood. They may not be in name, but are so in spirit and are very, very quick to always toot their own horn of being (and I quote from the website) "Founded in 2003 with veterans from the previous Westwood Studios" (and they still tout about the company being made mostly of Ex-Westwood staff to this day).

It doesn't matter if they changed direction or not - they insist on carrying on in the name of Westwood.

 

[AnotherRumpKicker]

Here's a fun game: Pretend this episode is about 'female representation in the game's industry' and you get the exact same argument that people who disagree with you have been saying for the last two years.

 

[Nazulu]

I remember hearing these things, and I remember I said BULLSHIT back then too. I reckon all types of games can sell well, it just needs to be made well. And for franchises like Starfox and F-Zero, I doubt it was the games just becoming less popular as to why they didn't sell as well, like the competition with one of the greatest consoles ever. I don't understand Beyond Good & Evil though.

 

[PotatoeMan]

Given the changes made in the games mentioned, why do we still have QTE's in games? Does anyone think they are a good idea or add anything to a game?

 

[ToastiestZombie]

You shouldn't forget the Silent Hill series. Although that's not really the "it just won't sell" kind of idiocy, it's the "the terrible HD collection, terrible sequels and terrible spin-offs we put barely any effort into didn't sell, that must mean SH isn't popular!" kind.

 

[igor2201]

On page 6 I posted a really long post about how most of the complaints listed in the video were not supported by the facts of the actual situation. Including Silent Hill and other big survival horror games. However since my post didn't go with the rest of the "ooo you are so right" mentality of this thread of comments it has been ignored.

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

no, is part of those people's history, not the dev, is not the same team, they arent working with the same resources or under the same direction

Petroglyph is not Westwood, even with your logic it doesnt make sense

say the other half of Westwood got together and formed another developer, would that developer also be westwood? say there was a "developer X", and some people left that developer to form Petroglyph with the guys from Westwood, would Petroglyph then be Westwood or "developer X"?

I'm sorry, but what?

The other half of Westwood was sent around to various departments of EA, to the point where I cannot be certain if any returned to work on any of the C&C games between Generals and C&C 4, and we all know how THAT ended. The factions that left over Universe at War haven't been on any projects since, and have more than likely left the games industry entirely.

Petroglyph is the spiritual successor company of Westwood. They may not be in name, but are so in spirit and are very, very quick to always toot their own horn of being (and I quote from the website) "Founded in 2003 with veterans from the previous Westwood Studios" (and they still tout about the company being made mostly of Ex-Westwood staff to this day).

It doesn't matter if they changed direction or not - they insist on carrying on in the name of Westwood.

just because they said it, doesnt mean they are westwood

i bring my questions again

IF the other half of westwood had formed their own dev team, would they also be westwood? which company would be the real westwood, this new dev or petroglyph?

IF petroglyph was formed from ex-devs of westwood and some other developer we will call "developer X" would petroglyph be considered westwood or "developer X"?

see the "IFs"? these are hypothetical questions, if you are going to argue petroglyph is westwood under that logic of yours, you should be able to answer these

 

[igor2201]

These hypothetical questions have merit. Black Isle studio upon closing a chunk of the staff went on to form Obsidian Entertainment, another chunk formed Troika Games. Neither one is Black Isle.

 

[Sir Shockwave]

just because they said it, doesnt mean they are westwood

i bring my questions again

IF the other half of westwood had formed their own dev team, would they also be westwood? which company would be the real westwood, this new dev or petroglyph?

IF petroglyph was formed from ex-devs of westwood and some other developer we will call "developer X" would petroglyph be considered westwood or "developer X"?

see the "IFs"? these are hypothetical questions, if you are going to argue petroglyph is westwood under that logic of yours, you should be able to answer these

Except that your hypothetical are irrelevant, as this hasn't happened and has a minute chance of happening. But I'll humor your questions.

Technically, both studios would, as they chose to carry on the Westwood legacy and both have Westwood Era veteran staff, there would just be a fork in continuity as the story branched itself out between Petro and Dev X. They would both technically be considered Westwood, but you'd have people like us arguing back and forth on a scale that makes our argument look like a civilized tea party. The (possible) differentiation is that Petro would be extreamly vocal about it, while Dev X might be...a lot less vocal about it.

However, this hasn't happened and is extremely unlikely to happen, given the Westwood employees who didn't join Petroglyph remained with EA and got shuttled around various other studios, and those who left over the Universe at War debacle have most likely left the industry (see: Adam Isgreen).

 

[igor2201]

Wow talk about ignored on a comment thread

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

just because they said it, doesnt mean they are westwood

i bring my questions again

IF the other half of westwood had formed their own dev team, would they also be westwood? which company would be the real westwood, this new dev or petroglyph?

IF petroglyph was formed from ex-devs of westwood and some other developer we will call "developer X" would petroglyph be considered westwood or "developer X"?

see the "IFs"? these are hypothetical questions, if you are going to argue petroglyph is westwood under that logic of yours, you should be able to answer these

Except that your hypothetical are irrelevant, as this hasn't happened and has a minute chance of happening. But I'll humor your questions.

Technically, both studios would, as they chose to carry on the Westwood legacy and both have Westwood Era veteran staff, there would just be a fork in continuity as the story branched itself out between Petro and Dev X. They would both technically be considered Westwood, but you'd have people like us arguing back and forth on a scale that makes our argument look like a civilized tea party. The (possible) differentiation is that Petro would be extreamly vocal about it, while Dev X might be...a lot less vocal about it.

However, this hasn't happened and is extremely unlikely to happen, given the Westwood employees who didn't join Petroglyph remained with EA and got shuttled around various other studios, and those who left over the Universe at War debacle have most likely left the industry (see: Adam Isgreen).

you didnt answer the second question

anyways regarding your argument, i guess then that westwood exists in some sort of quantum state, being able to exist in two places at the same time, thatd mean when both devs make competing games, i guess its westwood competing agaisnt westwood, when one employee leaves petroglyph to worh on the other developer, he/she left westwood... to work on westwood, if one of the devs closes its doors, it means westwood is dead forever... and also not


so no, sorry that logic does not work, just because one is "extreamly vocal" about something doesnt make it a reality, i could be extremely vocal about being able to fly, that doesnt mean ill grow wings



the reason why i asked these questions had nothing to do how likely this scenario was, if the logic behind your argument was actually sound, these question shouldve been able to be answered without any contradictions, as you can see, that wasnt the case

 

[Sir Shockwave]

you didnt answer the second question

anyways regarding your argument, i guess then that westwood exists in some sort of quantum state, being able to exist in two places at the same time, thatd mean when both devs make competing games, i guess its westwood competing agaisnt westwood, when one employee leaves petroglyph to worh on the other developer, he/she left westwood... to work on westwood, if one of the devs closes its doors, it means westwood is dead forever... and also not

so no, sorry that logic does not work, just because one is "extreamly vocal" about something doesnt make it a reality, i could be extremely vocal about being able to fly, that doesnt mean ill grow wings

the reason why i asked these questions had nothing to do how likely this scenario was, if the logic behind your argument was actually sound, these question shouldve been able to be answered without any contradictions, as you can see, that wasnt the case

If you read closer, I answered both questions in the same paragraph.

And actually, the whole thing is closer to heirs and successors, and the civil wars both bring about. If one Dev left one company to work for another, it would basically mean one Dev left one faction of Successors to go and work for the other one. Effectively, he would be turning traitor. It's not that big of a logical fallacy involving quantum physics - you couldn't actually hyperbole it any further from that.

However, this is all extremely off topic and we could be arguing all thread about it.

To go all the way back to my original argument, while (for now) Blizzard and Relic have been content to sit and mine their respective cash cow and let the genre stagnate (Starcraft and COH respectively), Focus have at least been trying to branch out and develop new IP. They have the Wargame series as their respective Cash Cow yes, but Etherium is a step in another direction for them, and it's at least in some way pushing things forwards rather than milking (or in Petro's case, trying to use Nostalgia and bank on your former reputation to get people to look the other direction while your attempts to get back on your feet go explosively wrong).

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

you didnt answer the second question

anyways regarding your argument, i guess then that westwood exists in some sort of quantum state, being able to exist in two places at the same time, thatd mean when both devs make competing games, i guess its westwood competing agaisnt westwood, when one employee leaves petroglyph to worh on the other developer, he/she left westwood... to work on westwood, if one of the devs closes its doors, it means westwood is dead forever... and also not

so no, sorry that logic does not work, just because one is "extreamly vocal" about something doesnt make it a reality, i could be extremely vocal about being able to fly, that doesnt mean ill grow wings

the reason why i asked these questions had nothing to do how likely this scenario was, if the logic behind your argument was actually sound, these question shouldve been able to be answered without any contradictions, as you can see, that wasnt the case

If you read closer, I answered both questions in the same paragraph.

And actually, the whole thing is closer to heirs and successors, and the civil wars both bring about. If one Dev left one company to work for another, it would basically mean one Dev left one faction of Successors to go and work for the other one. Effectively, he would be turning traitor. It's not that big of a logical fallacy involving quantum physics - you couldn't actually hyperbole it any further from that.

However, this is all extremely off topic and we could be arguing all thread about it.

To go all the way back to my original argument, while (for now) Blizzard and Relic have been content to sit and mine their respective cash cow and let the genre stagnate (Starcraft and COH respectively), Focus have at least been trying to branch out and develop new IP. They have the Wargame series as their respective Cash Cow yes, but Etherium is a step in another direction for them, and it's at least in some way pushing things forwards rather than milking (or in Petro's case, trying to use Nostalgia and bank on your former reputation to get people to look the other direction while your attempts to get back on your feet go explosively wrong).

so first they were westwood, then they were their successors and now they are a faction, make up your mind


is not off topic, you are arguing universe at war ruined petroglyph, i argue they were never good to begin with, if you want to include westwood in the petroglyph package it would be a different story, but as ive said many times now, petroglyph is not westwood, and you seem to agree now

 

[geldonyetich]

Personally, I blame money-grubbling execs for the whole snafu. This poor approach to future proofing reeks of focus groups and obsessing over profit margins. Do that long enough, and you forget that computer games are supposed to be fun first, and the money-making aspect happens as an after-effect.

 

[generals3]

So... On one hand people complain that gaming companies don't change enough and now they complain they changed stuff...

You gotta know what you want.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Okay, turn-based combat and the grind - sure I get where they are not the most popular things ever in an evolving industry where more and more action is available thanks to higher processing power and better graphics, but? who on Earth played Final Fantasy anything for the combat?! You play those games for the story, the characters, the pretty pretty cut scenes that are you reward for doing the grinding and the fighting. Swapping people in and out of combat - like FF10 does - was a nice innovation that spiced up the monotony of the whole turn based combat repetition and I could have been good with just that for at least 2 more games before I got antsy about seeing them hit it with the spice weasel again.

*slowly raises hand* I did...

Well okay then, my apologies? which ones did you enjoy the combat in most? I liked killing monsters a-plenty in most of them, but I can't say it's why I bought the games - I'm a story person for just about everything.

 

[SilverStuddedSquirre]

So... On one hand people complain that gaming companies don't change enough and now they complain they changed stuff...

You gotta know what you want.

We all know exactly what we want, and have been Screaming it a Squeenix for THIRTEEN FUCKING YEARS. Exactly WHO is complaining about Squeenix remembering who they are? For 13 years we have been waving fist fulls of money saying FFVII please, with some shiny new graphics. Or at least something of the caliber of 7,8, and 9. We have been loud, expressive and VERY very,clear as to our desires. We have also been ignored. They claim that the graphics would cost too much, despite making all 3 thirteen excrements in shiny, lovely graphics.

I am sorry, but your comment makes no sense.