Jimquisition: An Industry Of Pitiful Cowards

Mylinkay Asdara

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Nov 28, 2010
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Demonchaser27 said:
Mylinkay Asdara said:
Demonchaser27 said:
Mylinkay Asdara said:
Okay, turn-based combat and the grind - sure I get where they are not the most popular things ever in an evolving industry where more and more action is available thanks to higher processing power and better graphics, but? who on Earth played Final Fantasy anything for the combat?! You play those games for the story, the characters, the pretty pretty cut scenes that are you reward for doing the grinding and the fighting. Swapping people in and out of combat - like FF10 does - was a nice innovation that spiced up the monotony of the whole turn based combat repetition and I could have been good with just that for at least 2 more games before I got antsy about seeing them hit it with the spice weasel again.
*slowly raises hand* I did...
Well okay then, my apologies? which ones did you enjoy the combat in most? I liked killing monsters a-plenty in most of them, but I can't say it's why I bought the games - I'm a story person for just about everything.
I enjoyed FF6 and FF7. I mean you had to avoid grinding a little bit. Well, little bit is an understatement, but you get the point. It was more of how you prepare your party and prepare your "materia (FF7)" or "Espers/magic (FF6)" in order to prep for a fight. It was just really satisfying to me to discover these insane combinations between your parties to efficiently win a battle or series of battles(arena). I loved the stories too.

I'm just saying, as much as I love games like Golden Sun, compare Golden Sun's combat to some of the Final Fantasy games and the depth just isn't there. It's like Checkers vs. Chess, same board and similar movements but there just isn't as much thinking and planning required in checkers. I mean its just my taste. I completely understand how someone could much more enjoy more active gameplay systems. I mean I absolutely love my DMC 3/4, Ninja Gaiden Black, Monster Hunter, Souls series. I just sometimes like to do the strategy thing, especially if their is planning that goes into it.
I can fully agree with you there - the additional strategic elements of the Final Fantasy magic systems (even that horrific draw system) have always added to the combat and the over all gameplay and not only that, but they are almost always some key part of the way of the world workings that you manipulate, adding to the sensation of being truly powerful but within the confines of that reality.

I'm hardly a combat buff - sometimes I'll get a wild hair that I want to be really playing something with a challenging combat based on reflexes and such, but like I said, I'm much much more of a story/world/characters buff than any combat system fan.
 

Cerebrawl

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Demonchaser27 said:
Cerebrawl said:
Romancing SaGa 3 stuff.
Well that sounds fantastic. I'm gonna have to look into that game. Thanks :)
One warning though: there's no handholding, very little direction on what you need to do, and quests are missable, a walkthrough/faq is actually recommended. The game is also very replayable(different main characters, different stories, different parties and different setups for those parties, etc). I spent way in excess of a hundred hours on it.
 

themilo504

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3d platformers were also largely declared dead at the start of the last generation, sure you still had games like ratchet and clank super mario galaxy and uncharted, but it?s a lot less compared to the ps2 era.

I think the reason why so many companies suddenly started seeing monsters that weren?t actually there was because of the economic crisis.
 

Timewarpman1

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I think I've come to a true insight into why the game industry, namely publishers, are hurting the media.

The publishers treat games like how most manufacturers treat their products.
Every competitor has got to be as good as better as the next guy. They will do everything in their power to convince or lie to their customers in order to sell more products than their competition.

But there is one major flaw in this process.
Video games are stories.

Now hear me out. Humans have been telling stories since the dawn of time. It's almost primitive but one of core products of creativity, to create a unique world according to out views. These stories have their own settings, characters, feelings, reasons...etc. It is through our creativity that breathes life into these worlds we call stories.

Products on the other hand are simply no more than tools that serve functions. There no creativity in a hand-saw or a bowling ball. Things like this only serve their intended functions and nothing more. So the only thing you can do with them is to improve their function, which at best is just a need or a want.

I understand now that publishers make the mistake of mixing the two together, as if each story was solely design to just serve a function and not actually be something unique.

Can you imagine if someone made a commercial blitz on say Shakesphere's Hamlet but now it has all new characters like a drunk cop with a heart of gold? Michael Bay explosions in every chapter? And printed on finely made cotton texture patterns to make the book feel even better than the original? Doesn't that sound fucking weird and stupid?
It is because it is. You can't take someone's unique world and try to make it better.

Same with video games. Trying to make these stories into something they were not originally intended to be because you needed to compete with Brown shooter '13 is as fucking stupid as the example I gave above.

Maybe that's why we all view the gaming industry as the over bloated cancerous mutant that it is today. A self-indulgent perversion of pure wonder and enjoyment for the illogical selfish desire to make a buck.

I think we need a surgeon for this problem.
 

Himax9

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You wanna know what "evidence" the industry took to throw good game design off a cliff?
Call-of-fucking-duty. Spunkgargleweewee.

Last I checked, the porn industry makes a tremendous deal of money, greatly moreso than legitemate theatre. Is this becasue porn is better designed, composed, and written than legitemate cinema?
No, it's becasue it is built from the ground up with the sole purpose of appealing to the lowest common denominator.

CoD is the gaming equivalent of porn; garbage with no real reedeming value other than that it is popular with idiots who have either a lot of disposable income or a lack of financial responsibility.
Everyone thought that Microsoft was positively influencing the industry when it proved that it could appeal to the drunken frat-boy crowd.

The problem with the drunken frat-boy crowd is that they are arrogant, stupid, and lazy.
How good could games specifically meant to appeal to the arrogant, stupid, and lazy possibly be?

You get games with lots of shiny explosions and pretty graphics, but absolutely NO creativity or skill required outside of one or maybe two intrisically simple abilities (Like twitch-reflexes). You get games where the OBJECTIVE of gameplay is to put yourself in a position where you are getting landslide voctories against those who cannot defend themselves-- and then declaring yourself intrisically superior to them in every facet of both gameplay and real life.
You get games that make money by ensuring that you can launch a dozen sequels with absolutely NO additions to the core gameplay and having them sell like hotcakes.

When the industry learns to treat creating a game more like creating art and less like selling porn, THEN we will see a new rennaisance in the videogame industry.
 

Demonchaser27

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Mylinkay Asdara said:
...but they are almost always some key part of the way of the world workings that you manipulate, adding to the sensation of being truly powerful but within the confines of that reality.
Dude... DUDE. This is what I absolutely love about older Final Fantasy games. That feel of the combat aspects/magic being directly related and being heavily integral to the lore of the game, and you mastering it. *Dies and goes to heaven*
 

Demonchaser27

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Cerebrawl said:
Demonchaser27 said:
Cerebrawl said:
Romancing SaGa 3 stuff.
Well that sounds fantastic. I'm gonna have to look into that game. Thanks :)
One warning though: there's no handholding, very little direction on what you need to do, and quests are missable, a walkthrough/faq is actually recommended. The game is also very replayable(different main characters, different stories, different parties and different setups for those parties, etc). I spent way in excess of a hundred hours on it.
Yeah I'm not against hand-holding. But I love games that don't hand hold. It feels more mysterious and rewarding when you find something. This sounds nice. I'll judge it as I play, lol. Thanks for the warning though.
 

Mylinkay Asdara

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Nov 28, 2010
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Demonchaser27 said:
Mylinkay Asdara said:
...but they are almost always some key part of the way of the world workings that you manipulate, adding to the sensation of being truly powerful but within the confines of that reality.
Dude... DUDE. This is what I absolutely love about older Final Fantasy games. That feel of the combat aspects/magic being directly related and being heavily integral to the lore of the game, and you mastering it. *Dies and goes to heaven*
Lady >.> (lol) but yeah I totally get the enjoyment factor. I'm all for things being integral to the whole both in and out of combat and it does great things for a game overall when that's done well.
 

Demonchaser27

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Mar 20, 2014
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Mylinkay Asdara said:
Demonchaser27 said:
Mylinkay Asdara said:
...but they are almost always some key part of the way of the world workings that you manipulate, adding to the sensation of being truly powerful but within the confines of that reality.
Dude... DUDE. This is what I absolutely love about older Final Fantasy games. That feel of the combat aspects/magic being directly related and being heavily integral to the lore of the game, and you mastering it. *Dies and goes to heaven*
Lady >.> (lol) but yeah I totally get the enjoyment factor. I'm all for things being integral to the whole both in and out of combat and it does great things for a game overall when that's done well.
My apologies my wonderful Mrs. (Miss?) Asdara. Thanks for the response. Have yourself a lovely day. :)
 

Mylinkay Asdara

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Nov 28, 2010
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Demonchaser27 said:
Mylinkay Asdara said:
Demonchaser27 said:
Mylinkay Asdara said:
...but they are almost always some key part of the way of the world workings that you manipulate, adding to the sensation of being truly powerful but within the confines of that reality.
Dude... DUDE. This is what I absolutely love about older Final Fantasy games. That feel of the combat aspects/magic being directly related and being heavily integral to the lore of the game, and you mastering it. *Dies and goes to heaven*
Lady >.> (lol) but yeah I totally get the enjoyment factor. I'm all for things being integral to the whole both in and out of combat and it does great things for a game overall when that's done well.
My apologies my wonderful Mrs. (Miss?) Asdara. Thanks for the response. Have yourself a lovely day. :)
Miss for now (got the ring, haven't had the ceremony lol) and thanks you too. I'm just finishing up a run through of the HD FFX going into X-2 (even though it's Barbie Dress Up in too many ways for my tastes, I wanna see the "good" ending one day and not on YouTube) but I own copies of like every FF before it on multiple platforms because I do love the series and I truly hope that they turn around to look at the best of their past before they put out something new again, because XI online was good but XII was kinda the same ideas left barren without the other players around to share it with you and XIII just fell right off my radar because it had no compelling characters or story in comparison to any other FF title imo.
 

BoomingEchoes

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May 12, 2014
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I know this comes many weeks after this video, and I don't know if anyone else as said this in the over 200 comments posted here, but I feel like know the reason (or one of them) why Square-Enix made the sudden choice it made that these games weren't worth making any more, and it's about the same thing can be said about why Konami and Capcom had neutered their highly popular Survival Horror series.

Sometime in the later half of the PS2 era of gaming the internet (and I'm sure you can see where this is going, with the inclusion of that word) began to come into it's own as we know it today. With that came the fledgling days of the war over what's the best thing ever, for everything ever. During that time the PS2 especially was seeing a wide array of varied titles seeing huge amounts of love, most of which are still beloved, but, as evidenced in Jim's video, shoved to the side genre, such as survival horror and proper RPGs.

Somewhere along the way during all this there was a large anonymous rumbling in the distance (at least in the western end of the internet) comprised of thousands of little voices thundering in unison saying that JRPGs were boring, slogging, shite, and that people didn't want to spend 50+ hours on* these games any more.. A similar voice was also over the dark horizon that said survival horror games weren't favored because -ironically- "they're scary."

Now, I think this caused the companies that saw huge success from these genres to panic. This sort of outpouring of criticism from the very people who line their coffers with the treasure of hundreds of countries was something they didn't feel they should ignore in such a time of newness for things like that to be said so openly and without couth. Now we know they're fine just ignoring us and going about their business, largely forgoing everything we say to pad their botton line, under the black flag of "they'll buy anything, even when they complain about it) --but they had to learn that they could do that, before they could do that.

Survival horror may have actually had hard numbers to the effect that helped them to dwindle from the big-publisher spotlight; because it seems like we were always told that these games didn't have huge because horror as a genre in any visual medium is something of a hard sell. But a company like Square-Enix, who's entire industry presence, between both companies that Voltroned up in 2003 to comprise the whole entity we know today, had been the long, turn based, story heavy, JRPG, suddenly started to bail out on what had been long established as it's lifeblood somewhat shortly after these sorts of comments started becoming common place to see across the internet.

Funny enough, in the time these comments started to show the most, was the time between FFX and FFXII. FFXII had a long history of being delayed for a lot of strange reasons that no other company would ever have claimed to be a reason, including one of the key members of the development team getting sick, causing development to slow to a halt (if memory serves)a few times. What we ended up with when the game finally released, as the PS2 era was just on it's way out the door, was a vastly different sort of game then we had seen before. Coincidence? Probably, it's tough to say this far removed from it and from a series where every game is different in it's own way.

Any way, the sudden rise of internet swaying may not be the *entire* reason, but I feel it's safe to say that on such turbulent and uncharted waters of that time, especially for Square-Enix and all it had, and was beginning to, endure, they tried to take the safer route, which meant leaving a lot of fans to drown.

Here's the problem, and the problem that Jim probably ran into, not knowing what kind of trouble he runs into while researching his topics: the internet isn't as good at cataloging and retention as it claims to be. You look up something from that far back, and you'll likely not find a single word said from back then, if you even find anything at all, but a bunch of after-the-fact crap that was posted as far back as just a few years ago spoken from nostalgia, because those sites have updated this, or had to make room on their server for that. Even caches from that far back are sort of hard to come by.

There may not have been anything Jim could do to find out exactly what people were saying that swayed the industry so hard in this area, short of asking people who were in the industry at the time --but many of those people, likely still employed in it, will possibly be toting some hind-sight company like, because, well, it's easier to remember what was beaten into you then it is wasting time trying to remember what a bunch of any idiots on the internet said about something that doesn't really matter to you any more.

I also couldn't possibly come into this video expecting that he'd comb hundreds of ancient comment sections and forums to amass even the slightest imprint of what people were feeling at that time --that's something that had to have been lived through in the moment it happened, and remembered for what it was. (In otherwords: people of the far future are going to have a shite time trying to figure us out.. Like Liara trying to figure out the Protheans)

It's not exactly like it is today, where companies are still doing the same crap they did 6 years ago, because they figured out that feeding us the same game-thing every year, which fuels the same things said every year (with diminishing returns every time it's repeated), is better business to them then new experiences -which is a whole other topic all together- and leads to being able to relive the same sentiments every year, pretty much without fail.

(*and about this -this is also where the rise of more and more 10hrs or less games came from. People made it very clear during that near-transitional period, that they didn't want to put in huge amounts of time into games -usually stating that they didn't have the time to do that.. Fast forward to today, and people largely seem to slide in the other direction, saying that if they can't play a game for some untold amount of hours past 10, that they can't justify the game or the price of it.. Funny how that works out..)