Jim's demented babbling towards the end of the video reminded me of a famous dramatic monologue, of which an excerpt is reproduced below:
I wonder if that was deliberate?
Jimquisition: Batman Is Everything Wrong With Square Enix
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
From my perspective the art in the more recent final fantasy games is absolutely wonderful. The story multilayered and complex. The problem is the actual gameplay is not on that level, as while everything else is being improved the combat systems and the like are obliterated and re made with each and every new game. And also the story is TOO complex to the point where things don't flow very well.
I can't pull up the source, but there was a recent poll that players can barely remember a game's story as it is- whether it was because of a lack of or their inability to grasp the story was not stated; what they do remember is the gameplay. So it makes sense that if how a game plays is not good the game will be dismissed by many as a bad game, as at the end of the game most people don't remember most of the story anyway.
I know its a terrible thing to say. Also in a good game the player is more likely to ask "this is marvelous and all, but why am I doing this?", and thats where the story plays in. Its the ability to answer that question that will separate a good game from a great game for most players. In the latest FF games you never have to ask that question- rather you tend to be wondering what in sam hell are you doing, cause one minute ago you were hiding in Hope's house and now you are in the middle of the forest surrounded by what appears to be creatures designed by an insane person while you thought you were supposed to be hunting down these massive overlord characters drawn by the creature designer's bunk mate. That is the question you will most likely not want a player to be asking, especially in an rpg.
I can't pull up the source, but there was a recent poll that players can barely remember a game's story as it is- whether it was because of a lack of or their inability to grasp the story was not stated; what they do remember is the gameplay. So it makes sense that if how a game plays is not good the game will be dismissed by many as a bad game, as at the end of the game most people don't remember most of the story anyway.
I know its a terrible thing to say. Also in a good game the player is more likely to ask "this is marvelous and all, but why am I doing this?", and thats where the story plays in. Its the ability to answer that question that will separate a good game from a great game for most players. In the latest FF games you never have to ask that question- rather you tend to be wondering what in sam hell are you doing, cause one minute ago you were hiding in Hope's house and now you are in the middle of the forest surrounded by what appears to be creatures designed by an insane person while you thought you were supposed to be hunting down these massive overlord characters drawn by the creature designer's bunk mate. That is the question you will most likely not want a player to be asking, especially in an rpg.
That Batman design looks pretty good. The only reason why the older FF games (or other Japanese games) don't have more elaborate designs is due to the hardware not being able to handle it. Mario and Sonic looks that way probably due to the hardware limitations when they were initially designed. If you don't like your favorite comic book hero getting redesigned I can understand, I even agree that Square Enix's games have major issues. But the issue is not design. Lightning looks cool in the third game, but she's just in a crap game.
This and Jim's video have encapsulated all of what I always knew about the 'now' Square Enix, it was always about style over substance, they cared more about how a game looked than how the story played out. They cared about how many bobbles and doo-dad's they could shove onto their characters instead of giving them the most important 'accessory', a personality that was more then cardboard thin. I think the last time FF wasn't boring and trite for me was FF9 and that was a LOOONG time ago.Zachary Amaranth said:
Hi there Jim loved this episode to bits. I did a couple of courses in 3D modelling and animation for video games and this is one of the important things that one could say about the whole thing. Rule of 3.
No more then three colours and three shapes. Well it's not in stone or anything but it's a good way of being mindful of not putting too much complexity into things.
AS for your other video in the xbox one. I certainly don't think you were referring to me when when you said people were offended.
However, I do think what you said about the Xbox One it was a little contradictory compared to the statements you made in your other videos where you criticized companies for apologizing and not doing anything.
Microsoft might not have apologized through words or press conferences but they have made changes for the better for the consumer. I just wish they'd apply the same strategy to Windows 8.
No more then three colours and three shapes. Well it's not in stone or anything but it's a good way of being mindful of not putting too much complexity into things.
AS for your other video in the xbox one. I certainly don't think you were referring to me when when you said people were offended.
However, I do think what you said about the Xbox One it was a little contradictory compared to the statements you made in your other videos where you criticized companies for apologizing and not doing anything.
Microsoft might not have apologized through words or press conferences but they have made changes for the better for the consumer. I just wish they'd apply the same strategy to Windows 8.
I'll have to look for reviews or gameplay. I've got them wishlisted and I might give them a shot if they get discounted or something.canadamus_prime said:
Yeah... honestly I don't think you're offending anyone when you take shots at such an easy target as Square Enix these days, they're rather like the Frank Miller of videogames now, they made some pretty cool stuff a looooooooooooong time ago, but now they've completely lost their goddamn minds.
I agree that the combat in Final Fantasy XIII was pretty bad. Don't try and do hybrid of turn-based and real-time combat. Personally I feel the FF XIII games should have had the Kingdom Hearts 2 combat system. One of the best combat systems in a JRPG next to Tales of Xillia.
The problem with square enix is they don't know how the contrast and cut out the dull unnecessary stuff.
If you put a character in a white room with one sword and you put another in a room filled with swords and wallpapered in swords, people is going to remember that one sword in the white room, it's just science.
I could overlook square's poor aesthetic designs, but the fucking nonsensical stories is what I can't forgive. In a world where even superheroes movies are trying to be more realistic by giving a scientific explanation to their plot, square is going far into the other direction by putting people in a world they just can't relate with. Hell! even naruto got a scientific explaination (within its universe) for the sharingan and how they works.
People can only enjoy so much alien concept at a time. If you tell us we're in a alternate world that ninja still exist but everything else is almost the same as our world, we can easily consume that. But the FF of these days just makes me choke.
If you put a character in a white room with one sword and you put another in a room filled with swords and wallpapered in swords, people is going to remember that one sword in the white room, it's just science.
I could overlook square's poor aesthetic designs, but the fucking nonsensical stories is what I can't forgive. In a world where even superheroes movies are trying to be more realistic by giving a scientific explanation to their plot, square is going far into the other direction by putting people in a world they just can't relate with. Hell! even naruto got a scientific explaination (within its universe) for the sharingan and how they works.
People can only enjoy so much alien concept at a time. If you tell us we're in a alternate world that ninja still exist but everything else is almost the same as our world, we can easily consume that. But the FF of these days just makes me choke.
I'll give you hair (though he was hardly the first character with insane hair), but angst and zippers? His original design has no zipper overload, and the angst he has in FF7 is overplayed massively. He doesn't suffer from angst at the start nor the end, he has one particular "arc" if you will where he suffers from it, but it has a purpose and he gets over it.Silentpony said:
Of course the "expanded universe" of FF7 where they decide to have him act completely unlike who he was at the end of FF7 really doesn't help in that perception I suppose.
No, it isn't. No one thing was bad. But all of them together were.KingdomFantasyXIII said:
I like eggs, sausage, french toast and orange juice. But stick them all in a blender and make a breakfast smoothie and I wouldn't touch the thing. This is the essense of over design, Squares main problem. No one element is bad on it's own, but all the elements together clash and compete for attention dragging the whole work down. This is called over designing.
Again you miss the point. I like Vanille's design. I like Lightning's design. But in the actual game, with all the other things going on in the game, everything competes for attention and it all ends up a mess. No single element is bad, but together they do not work. Over design.
Again, I said I liked the costumes. But it isn't just Lightning's costume. If it were just her costume in a vacuum it would have been fine. It is everything together. Over design.
Yes it was. There might be a decent story buried under there somewhere, you even get glimpses of it every once in a while, but overall it is buried in the mess. We are introduced to 5 our of 6 of the main characters before we know anything about the first character we met. The story splits its focus between multiply story lines and tons of out of order flashbacks. These all compete for attention, none of them ever resolving before jumping back or forward or sideways to another story thread. What does any of it mean? We don't know, we don't get told that until a dozen hours into the game. Incredibly poor narrative execution.
And I know that just because I hate a character doesn't mean everyone does. I never said they did. That doesn't make me think they they are right.
No, it never has, because that exact kind of generalized statement is entirely accurate. Tetsuya Nomura is employed by Square Enix. Square Enix is a company run by people. Square Enix has a CEO and a corporate board. The upper management. These people are the organization of Square Enix. They continue to employ Tetsuya Nomura. If his overall art direction is the problem then they share in the blame for hiring him and continuing to employ him. They are supposed to handle problems like this They are not stuck with Tetsuya Nomura and if it is in the interest of the company to remove them then they have a responsibility to do so. They are supposed to manage the company. That is literally their job. That is why they are called "management."
Don't get me wrong; they have serious problems (although, with the exception of mobile gaming, I'd say those are mostly better than they were a few years ago). It just seems weird to base that criticism in something so out of date. It's like wanting to criticize Ubisoft and going about it by enumerating all the flaws in the first Assassin's Creed. Honestly, what the video makes me think more than anything is that Jim didn't play FF XIII-2 or Lightning Returns and didn't have time for a 60-hour RPG before making his video. LR is kind of weird, but is at least something different, whereas XIII-2 does a lot to address most of his complaints with XIII. It cuts out most of the made-up words, explains the few it does have in dialogue instead of weird files in the menu, and tells a story in which one always knows where one is going, what one is trying to do, and why one would want to go there and do that. That's hardly a major accomplishment, but it does show learning from past mistakes. I can't say the video is wrong, but it feels like it fell through a time-warp from 2011 or 12 and doesn't seem especially relevant to anything now.-Dragmire- said:
This video is so true. I was a huge FF fan way back when. The last title I played was FF10, which I already thought was the beginning of the end. Some years ago I tried a demo of a more recent installment and I felt like a 90 year old Alzheimer patient. First I was confused, then I got progressively angry because nothing made any sense to me. That was the first time in my life I felt to old for something (all thought: modern anime has a similar effect on me).
Fucking bang on this week Jim. I haven't played FFXIII cos it looks like garbage, but I did recently play "Type-0", the fan translated PSP Final Fantasy game. Everyone is praising it (see /v/ and neogaf and gamefaqs) but it's just utter garbage and I'm mad at myself for even spending a few hours on it. 
"FML" etc.
"FML" etc.
If you look at concept art for even the earliest Final Fantasy games, it's all extremely overelaborate. A lot of characters look like they tried to dress themselves in a Persian rug store, and only through the naturally simplifying elements of sprite limitations did their much more simple, elegant designs come about.