I think that Portal is the best AAA (if you can call it that) example of this. The environments rarely change and the cast is amazingly small. Even Portal 2 pulled this off wonderfully. I still laugh at the call of the Space Sphere SPPPPPAAAAACCE!
Jimquisition: Beneath A Steel Skyrim
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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I'll be honest: The opportunity for wordplay with the title was just as big a determining factor as any for using Skyrim as the comparison.
Do yourself a favour then and check out Wadjet Eye games, they have some very interesting, thought provoking games. In fact the latest humble bundle has their Blackwell Trilogy in it if I'm not mistaken. Also don't pass up Sanitarium on GOG.SupahGamuh said:
I know, he can't be all bad if he liked BASS.D0WNT0WN said:
You have no idea how disappointing this is to play. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Hard:_Nakatomi_Plaza]D0WNT0WN said:
Jim, what did you make of Dragon Age II? That was the game that came immediately to mind when you were talking about what made Beneath a Steel Sky great; I enjoyed it enough to play it through eight times, but others' praise was not so forthcoming. What about you?
You seem to have repeated the same statement three times with a little change in wording... Wonder if that should tip me off to some sarcasm or that is just an editing error...
Does Jim actually do any research before he makes his videos?
"Skyrim offers a level of freedom that games have never even dreamed of"... umm I can name plenty that dreamed, least of all previous TES games.
And Telltale the only studio making point & click adventures? What is he smoking? There are plenty of developers around, DOZENS if you bothered to delve below mainstream releases you'd find them.
I think Jim just wants to make videos about whatever his favorite games are at the time, and try to link them together in any way he can. He does have a point though, that bigger isn't necessarily better - and that is why Skyrim fails to compel me, because it seems to believe it is.
"Skyrim offers a level of freedom that games have never even dreamed of"... umm I can name plenty that dreamed, least of all previous TES games.
And Telltale the only studio making point & click adventures? What is he smoking? There are plenty of developers around, DOZENS if you bothered to delve below mainstream releases you'd find them.
I think Jim just wants to make videos about whatever his favorite games are at the time, and try to link them together in any way he can. He does have a point though, that bigger isn't necessarily better - and that is why Skyrim fails to compel me, because it seems to believe it is.
Jim, you ARE great and I DO thank Gawd for you. I would lend out my head for your eyeballs but my head is a bit full at the moment.
As for Beneath the Steel Sky and just about every other PnC type of game...I never grew up as a PC gamer so I missed out on about 99% of them. I remember playing Broken Sword on the GBA but not really being a big fan of that one. Aren't the Sam and Max games on the Wii at this point? As for the older PnC ones, even if I could find them would they be compatible with my computer, my OS, etc? Or is this one of those instances when you would smack me on the head and tell me that this is what Steam is for?
As for Beneath the Steel Sky and just about every other PnC type of game...I never grew up as a PC gamer so I missed out on about 99% of them. I remember playing Broken Sword on the GBA but not really being a big fan of that one. Aren't the Sam and Max games on the Wii at this point? As for the older PnC ones, even if I could find them would they be compatible with my computer, my OS, etc? Or is this one of those instances when you would smack me on the head and tell me that this is what Steam is for?
Is it just me, or did this episode feel rather padded? He said that smaller games can be just as compelling as Skyrim like four times or something.
I think he didn't do a great job illustrating his point like he usually does. Strange.
What I took away from it was that more environments =/= better, because without lack of detail and lack of characterization for that environment, people could give two shits less about it. Not that you can't create a large-scale game with memorable places, but for every Republic of Dave that has you loving it there's a monotonous town with very similar geograpical circumstances and infrastructure filled with twenty copy-paste NPCs with the same faces repeating the same lines over and over.
I think a good example of this would be Bioshock, in regards to revisiting Rapture in Bioshock 2 and relocating in Bioshock Infinite. I hear a lot of people saying they actually regret playing Bioshock 2 because it took away from the first Bioshock. They feel that it wasn't the same place they grew attached to in the first, and was more of an ugly figment. And not in the intentional its-that-way-because-the-writers-want-to-make-a-point way, just in a strange, unsettling way. Whereas for Bioshock Infinite, people are upset that its going to be taking place in Arcadia. They feel isolated because its not Bioshock to them. To be fair, I think the latter group has a point, but it certainly goes to show how much an attachment to a place and its characters can really affect somebody's experience with a game.
What I took away from it was that more environments =/= better, because without lack of detail and lack of characterization for that environment, people could give two shits less about it. Not that you can't create a large-scale game with memorable places, but for every Republic of Dave that has you loving it there's a monotonous town with very similar geograpical circumstances and infrastructure filled with twenty copy-paste NPCs with the same faces repeating the same lines over and over.
I think a good example of this would be Bioshock, in regards to revisiting Rapture in Bioshock 2 and relocating in Bioshock Infinite. I hear a lot of people saying they actually regret playing Bioshock 2 because it took away from the first Bioshock. They feel that it wasn't the same place they grew attached to in the first, and was more of an ugly figment. And not in the intentional its-that-way-because-the-writers-want-to-make-a-point way, just in a strange, unsettling way. Whereas for Bioshock Infinite, people are upset that its going to be taking place in Arcadia. They feel isolated because its not Bioshock to them. To be fair, I think the latter group has a point, but it certainly goes to show how much an attachment to a place and its characters can really affect somebody's experience with a game.
I remember playing a game on Sega Genesis called Oasis. Or was it Legend of Oasis? I don't remember, but the game took place over a small island and you explored the whole thing discovering different spirits to aid you. Years late, I still fondly remember that game.
Excellent episode Jim.
I've actually been going through the same process and finding much more enjoyable experiences when I play games that capture the magic of truly compelling environments/story, rather then played games by companies that just throw a bunch of money at a developer and then telling us how good it is through over-saturated advertising.
Skyrim was the first game to wake me up from this, and since then I've been playing a shit load of indies and smaller games and I agree, they are very similar experiences even though they are considerably "different".
I just finished To The Moon recently which also does this well, theres not much to explore and theres no combat, but its without a doubt one of the most fleshed out and real feeling game I've played in years. If you're still in your mellow adventure game vibe, I suggest trying it out.
I dont want to say I've given up on AAA games, but I certainly look at them differently now. Its just sad to see such huge games lacking in such an important area of game design, which is emotion.
It so cool to see you talk about and confirming the exact same thing I've realized just this week.
Thanks again Jim, stay awesome.
I've actually been going through the same process and finding much more enjoyable experiences when I play games that capture the magic of truly compelling environments/story, rather then played games by companies that just throw a bunch of money at a developer and then telling us how good it is through over-saturated advertising.
Skyrim was the first game to wake me up from this, and since then I've been playing a shit load of indies and smaller games and I agree, they are very similar experiences even though they are considerably "different".
I just finished To The Moon recently which also does this well, theres not much to explore and theres no combat, but its without a doubt one of the most fleshed out and real feeling game I've played in years. If you're still in your mellow adventure game vibe, I suggest trying it out.
I dont want to say I've given up on AAA games, but I certainly look at them differently now. Its just sad to see such huge games lacking in such an important area of game design, which is emotion.
It so cool to see you talk about and confirming the exact same thing I've realized just this week.
Thanks again Jim, stay awesome.
You know, just yesterday I saw someone mention that the Myst/Riven-style puzzle-adventure game has been reborn as the MMORPG, for pretty much the exact same reasons you mentioned. They're both extremely different from each other, almost complete opposites, but their purpose is to suck you into a world that--if all goes well--you end up falling in love with. Which is what I love the most about games. If only Myst Online: Uru Live had come together better than it did.
And since everyone else is mentioning games, I'll do it too: Ico.
(And even though I know the Facebook commenters won't read this: HELL YES to Machinarium, one of the most perfect games I've ever played, and FUCK NO to The Whispered World, one of the most disappointing games I've ever played.)
And since everyone else is mentioning games, I'll do it too: Ico.
(And even though I know the Facebook commenters won't read this: HELL YES to Machinarium, one of the most perfect games I've ever played, and FUCK NO to The Whispered World, one of the most disappointing games I've ever played.)
I have been hankering to play those sorts of games recently but it's really hit and miss whether you get a good one or not. The main review sites tend to ignore them so it's hard to know what you are spending your money on.
I wish the guys who made Broken Sword would make another 2D one they were awesome.
I wish the guys who made Broken Sword would make another 2D one they were awesome.
Myst.
They have a new one.
Relatively new.
It's as buggy as shit. Really buggy.
And I love the hell out of it.
It's not small, not really anyways, but it still has that loving familiarity to it. Like the last ones, the game was created with a very acute attention to detail, and the feeling you get when you read, on your own will, a 30+ page journal, and start to understand it and see it come together... it's exhilarating.
It's Myst Online Uru-Live.
The best part is that it has Open Source elements to it. Sure, that opens the doors for wierd and undesirable shiiiiieeeeeeieieieieit, but there's probably a couple good developers out there who keep in the Myst spirit.
Hell, I'd go as far to say that every aspiring developer should play this game. It won't teach you how to properly use a shader engine, or why you should just use Frostbyte for everything, it won't teach you alot of things, but at least it'll teach you how to make a game. It'll teach you how to create a world.
Then you can take that knowledge, and create your world in the Frostbyte 2 engine with top quality shaders and explosion physics and all that jazz, and make something nobody can afford not to play. Yes, I could really go for a game with the same attention to detail Myst has always had, but made with more efficient tools right now.
They have a new one.
Relatively new.
It's as buggy as shit. Really buggy.
And I love the hell out of it.
It's not small, not really anyways, but it still has that loving familiarity to it. Like the last ones, the game was created with a very acute attention to detail, and the feeling you get when you read, on your own will, a 30+ page journal, and start to understand it and see it come together... it's exhilarating.
It's Myst Online Uru-Live.
The best part is that it has Open Source elements to it. Sure, that opens the doors for wierd and undesirable shiiiiieeeeeeieieieieit, but there's probably a couple good developers out there who keep in the Myst spirit.
Hell, I'd go as far to say that every aspiring developer should play this game. It won't teach you how to properly use a shader engine, or why you should just use Frostbyte for everything, it won't teach you alot of things, but at least it'll teach you how to make a game. It'll teach you how to create a world.
Then you can take that knowledge, and create your world in the Frostbyte 2 engine with top quality shaders and explosion physics and all that jazz, and make something nobody can afford not to play. Yes, I could really go for a game with the same attention to detail Myst has always had, but made with more efficient tools right now.