Jimquisition: Children of the Resolution

[deathjavu]

I'm not one of those hardware knowy peoples, so I don't know if this could be a thing, but I suppose the bigger concern for me would be that if a multi-platform game wants to prioritize power for some sort of gameplay/ai/other feature rather then graphics, it can't really just run at a lower resolution and scale things down. It could be forced to cut or simplify things. Now, I shouldn't exactly expect that to happen because AAA derp, but a man must hope for a game with such priorities.

Yup.

This necessary down-scaling so that games will work on everything is also known as "the most legitimate reason for PC gamers to hate consoles". This has kind of been the reality for us for...well, since consoles became popular enough to declare the "death" of PC gaming. Generally I'd say the effect is more limited to graphics though, so it's not the end of the world. Sometimes the controls are really shitty on obvious ports from console to PC (Dark Souls, which I loved, has some truly horrendous PC controls. The extremely mediocre Force Unleashed also had some shit controls very clearly designed for console.)

Well, I say all that, but in reality mostly this rift in power and in base hardware architecture really just meant games weren't released on PC at all. So, at least now the architecture (x86-64) is the same in PC's and consoles. Which will make it easier to move games between systems.

Not that games won't be arbitrarily restricted to one console or the other or away from PC's entirely for the benefit of the console itself because fuck the consumer, but it will be easier to make games available on all systems.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Jim is correct. It is funny. It's freakin' hilarious. All this graphics whoring pushed by the publishers and developers is just going to drive more gamers towards the PC. Especially now when more and more people are beginning to realize what all the advantages are. And with Steam Machine approaching, who knows, this may actually be the last generation of consoles.

 

[AdagioBoognish]

GLORIOUS PC GAMING MASTER RACE REPORT IN!

Let us overclock our graphics cards and re-bind the controls on our keyboards in a way that makes shooters barely playable while dismissing the ease and comfort of a gamepad in celebration of our innate superiority over the dirty console peasants!

First of all, you're literally fucking delusional if you think shooters play better with a gamepad.

Secondly, if I actually wanted to use a gamepad on my PC I CAN DO THAT, I have a fucking PS3 controller that I use to play emulated games with, if I wanted to use it for shooters I could.

But I don't since literally every single test has shown that people using Keyboard and mouse always wipe the floor with people using gamepads, even IF the gamepad users have aim-correction.

But it's okay, you can keep spreading your delusional console propaganda, we both know you're never gonna accept facts even when they're plainly and obviously available.

he said "ease and comfort" not superiority, and in that regard, he is absolutely right. i own many PC games, but for action games i break out my Xbox 360 Elite rechargeable game pad. for FPS i use a mouse and key board for FPS games due to having better accuracy.

Yeah, good ol' USB ports. PC is king. Funny when dudes, like the one a couple of quotes up, still let themselves get trolled though.

 

[AdagioBoognish]

I'm not one of those hardware knowy peoples, so I don't know if this could be a thing, but I suppose the bigger concern for me would be that if a multi-platform game wants to prioritize power for some sort of gameplay/ai/other feature rather then graphics, it can't really just run at a lower resolution and scale things down. It could be forced to cut or simplify things. Now, I shouldn't exactly expect that to happen because AAA derp, but a man must hope for a game with such priorities.

Yup.

This necessary down-scaling so that games will work on everything is also known as "the most legitimate reason for PC gamers to hate consoles". This has kind of been the reality for us for...well, since consoles became popular enough to declare the "death" of PC gaming.

I've never thought of it this way, but you make a lot of sense. It would explain why Fallout and Skyrim are launched with such scaled down textures and short rendering distances. I think the best part of the PC is the community though. Skyrim out of the box runs well over 60 FPS max settings on my computer, but after downloading the tons of graphic mods, hi-resolution packs, and gameplay overhauls that are available for free I'm having a hard time keeping my frame rate over 45. It's much prettier though and I think it's awesome I have the choice.

 

[medv4380]

So what are the 4k fanboys going to do when they find out its the same deadend as 3d.

We had decades at 480i aka Standard resolution. Until programming produces something worth the upgrade, or manufacturing makes it cheap to upgrade 1080p is the new standard definition. Your looking at another 20 years.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

"Hail Gamepads!"

Just throwing this out there, but I fail to see how using WASD and the neighbouring keys is in any way, shape or form any worse than using a gamepad. It's mostly a question of personal comfort and of the game's innate design.

Consider Skyrim, for instance. It's absolutely playable with a gamepad. I've tried. I don't like it, though, because I'm just not all that comfortable with one. Far be it from me to judge those who do prefer it, though.

Then consider Kingdoms of Amalur. This game is so console-centric it hurts, to the point where I gave in and started using MotionInJoy to be able to use my PS3 controller with my PC. I could've used my wired XBOX controller, yes, but the sheer size of the thing makes long play sessions pretty much impossible for me. If I want to binge on a game, in the most ideal of circumstances, I personally *have* to rock the mouse and keyboard.

As to which platform is superior; I couldn't possibly care any less. Go twiddle your joysticks if it feels adequate to you, I'll stick to my key presses.

 

[AdagioBoognish]

Hahaha I just found this picture. Pretty much sums up Jims point about resolution doesn't matter, it's all about which platform gets the games.

 

[Airon]

Brrr-r-r-r-r-r-ring on the games.

Meanwhile, there's a 50% off sale of Gunpoint over at the new Humblebundle store, a game of pixelated cuteness and devious puzzle goodness.

And then I'll play Team Fortress 2 at 60 fps on my 1200p display, though I might switch to a 144 Hz 1080p display soon. If I really want to, and care enough to spend the cash. And I don't care THAT much.

I'm perfectly happy to hook funny soldiers to a harrier jet and see how fast I can smash them in to the side of a mountain on Just Cause 2 on the 360 at 720p.

Think I'd rather get a Steam machine in the future.

 

[deathjavu]

So what are the 4k fanboys going to do when they find out its the same deadend as 3d.

We had decades at 480i aka Standard resolution. Until programming produces something worth the upgrade, or manufacturing makes it cheap to upgrade 1080p is the new standard definition. Your looking at another 20 years.

Just like that expensive transition from VHS to DVD after 10 years of dominance, right? And then how no one wanted to switch to Blu-Ray after that? Look, technology upgrades faster these days thanks to...technology, actually. The time frames involved don't really mean anything one way or the other.

Higher resomolutions will still sell to consumers, it's an easy pitch. HD Tv's have almost become a poster child of "keeping up with the jones" style one-upsmanship, and unlike 3D an upgrade to 4K isn't a big change in how TV is viewed, it's just a better version of what people already have.

1080p isn't some magical special resolution where it's already as good as humans can visually distinguish and it never looks better. There's room for actual, visible improvement. And that's what'll sell 4K. The same thing that sold 1080i ...er, 1080p, that stalwart HD standard that's been with us always and was never 1080i.

 

[zumbledum]

1080p .. 1080 pee. ooo yes i remember thats the resolution we revert to when some numb skull dev doest put in an option to scale the UI and we either cant read or click on it!

i never had any plans to buy a bone anyway i avoid MS products where possible for other reasons. but wow it cant even handle 1080 as an option. thats pretty shocking really.

yeah yeah gameplay over graphics and all that but wow thats one weak ass system.

 

[Yoshi4102]

Well my TV is 720p and my PC is onlygodknowswhatp so I guess I can't be pissed off just yet.

 

[medv4380]

So what are the 4k fanboys going to do when they find out its the same deadend as 3d.

We had decades at 480i aka Standard resolution. Until programming produces something worth the upgrade, or manufacturing makes it cheap to upgrade 1080p is the new standard definition. Your looking at another 20 years.

Just like that expensive transition from VHS to DVD after 10 years of dominance, right? And then how no one wanted to switch to Blu-Ray after that? Look, technology upgrades faster these days thanks to...technology, actually. The time frames involved don't really mean anything one way or the other.

Higher resomolutions will still sell to consumers, it's an easy pitch. HD Tv's have almost become a poster child of "keeping up with the jones" style one-upsmanship, and unlike 3D an upgrade to 4K isn't a big change in how TV is viewed, it's just a better version of what people already have.

1080p isn't some magical special resolution where it's already as good as humans can visually distinguish and it never looks better. There's room for actual, visible improvement. And that's what'll sell 4K. The same thing that sold 1080i ...er, 1080p, that stalwart HD standard that's been with us always and was never 1080i.

Using the VHS to DVD to BluRay transition is a False Analogy. Your ignorance of sales trends over the last decade, and the underlying history of the HD and Digital transition is laudable(/sarcasm).

Prior to the establishment of 1080p you're amateur analysis might have been seen as a Homer Simpson analysis. Duh! PC monitors were better than 1080p a decade ago, but when 1080p finally got a foot hold the manufacturers were able to do something. They were able to cut the price of 1080p monitors due to economies of scale. The lower price changed the buying trends, and over a decade PC's wen't from having better than 1080p to all have 1080p. It's only recently that any of them have even bothered to produce better monitors. Those are all tied to them needing to do something with all the 3D production lines that have FAILED. Without the economies of scale the "better" PC monitors will always be overpriced and under utilized.

The question then become why did it take 2 decades for HD and Digital to finally take hold? The transition was supposed to happen early in the 90's to supplant the Standard Definition established in 1972. The problem was that no one wanted to upgrade because there was no programming that was offered. DirecTV tried a lot just to get people to upgrade until they found out that if they Put their NFL Sunday Ticket in HD the TV's sell hand over fist. Eventually local stations had to upgrade as well because no one wanted to watch the local Football game unless it was in HD. Only after a significant number of Football fans had HD TV would anyone else even consider offering regular HD programming. Heck, a lot of local stations are 480p because the cost of upgrading to HD is still not profitable enough, or offer enough of an improved experience. However, not even putting football games in 3D could sell the things to anyone other than the crazy with a grand to throw away.

Without the programming the TV's won't sell. However, BluRay didn't sell HD, Movies didn't sell HD, Keeping up with the Jones' didn't sell HD, ONLY American Football Sold HD. What do you think will sell 4k? Football? Forbes thinks "Gaming" will, but the systems don't have the ability to take advantage of that. Without a lot more RAM they never will. You think PC's will do it? They weren't able to push us to HD what makes you think they'll sustain 4k.

Think about this, HD didn't change how we view TV much ether, but it still took two decades to get it adopted. And getting it only resulted in a massive PC downgrade. Congratulations, you're back at 1995 resolutions. Lets see how long you get to keep it this time.

 

[MB202]

*whoosh* Right over my head.

...Also, why did Jim leave Destructoid?

 

[Covarr]

A bit of overgeneralization here; the Xb1 is perfectly capable of 1080p, provided the game is willing to either cut the graphics in other areas such as framerate or particles or whatever to match. I'm sure Minecraft: Xbox One Edition will run at 1080p.

Regardless, the message behind this video is a good one. In the end it really does come down to games. Graphics snobs are quite frankly better off with a high-end PC anyway, making the power debate between Xb1 and PS4 rather meaningless, and everyone else is better with whatever machine has the games they want. If you want Halo 5, it doesn't really matter that the PS4 outpaces the Xb1, does it?

P.S. Thanks

 

[Strazdas]

Wait, people hate Adam Sessler? I thought he was all around liked by most.

not since he said that 720p looks better than 1080p.

GLORIOUS PC GAMING MASTER RACE REPORT IN!

Let us overclock our graphics cards and re-bind the controls on our keyboards in a way that makes shooters barely playable while dismissing the ease and comfort of a gamepad in celebration of our innate superiority over the dirty console peasants!

You sir should be a stand up comedian. i havent seen anything so randomly flat out false about PC controls for a long time!
Ill let you in on a little secret: Keyboard is more confortable than controller or keypad.

As to minecraft being an example of gameplay over graphics, I tend to competitive games at lower resolutions as to lower the chance of strain on my machine. It doesn't matter how good a game looks if you lost because you skipped a frame.

There also a trend on competetive games being less demanding usually. i mean i used to play some competetive games (though im not competetive player myself) on machine built 10 years ago and it worked. Funny thing, at 20 FPS with lag spikes i was still getting close to the top of the match. But i got bored of that fast, you need to have a thing for these games to play them.

Lovely as usual, Jim

I'm pretty sure who argue that 720p is better than 1080p are the self-same individuals who claim that the human eye can only see at 24fps.

Cognitive dissonance much?

First of all human eys process 25 frames per second due to how eye colbs work and while it does need further research, current one shows thats about the limit +- few frames for different people perhaps.
Secondly. there is HUGE difference between 720p and 1080p.
your theory is wrong.

You know, I can't help but feel that your retort to a rather simple comment was way more vicious than it needed to be. Seriously, was something like that really worth getting angry over?

are people getting all richeous and self-confirming about the imput method using trying to tell everyone that other imputs are somehow inferior and stupid and by that post claiming that whole pc gamers group is silly, worth getting angry over?
Of course it is!

In fact, there are games legitimately running at 1080p on PS3 & 360. Not upscaled: legit 1080p. It is how much work done per pixel that is limited by resolution choice.

No there is no. The console does not have physical capability to output at this resolution without upscaling. It wasnt designed to do this, ever.

 

[irishda]

I'm sorry I didn't have time to watch the video or read the comments, I was too busy playing Dynasty Warriors 7 Empires on PSN to care.

(I lied. I read some of the comments. I'm not surprised at how insufferable PC gamers still are. "Keyboard is more comfortable than a controller. FACT!" Yeah? How many people get carpal tunnel working a controller? Bottom line: when the consoles are released people are only going to ask two questions. How much and what games are with it? No one's going to be "pushed to PCs" because of resolution or DRM or any of that.)

 

[QUINTIX]

No there is no. The console does not have physical capability to output at this resolution without upscaling. It wasnt designed to do this, ever.

Wipeout HD would like a word with you
As does Microsoft's XNA documentation wrt predicated tiling

 

[Igen]

Excellent episode. Had a good laugh multiple times. God speed Jim. =D

The new systems having such a low resolution is hilarious. Being mainly a PC player, I comfortably sit back and watch the show.

 

[Lopende Paddo]

GLORIOUS PC GAMING MASTER RACE REPORT IN!

Let us overclock our graphics cards and re-bind the controls on our keyboards in a way that makes shooters barely playable while dismissing the ease and comfort of a gamepad in celebration of our innate superiority over the dirty console peasants!

I haven't over-clocked a thing on a 2 year old pc and can play most things on highest settings, also, you can connect almost any gamepad you want to a pc. I'm not against consoles either, I've got a Ps3 and a X-box 360 for games that are exclusive to those consoles and for playing games with friends in splitscreen.

Just face it, pc is better when looking at almost all aspects. consoles are more user friendly and have better marketing (marketing for pc is for loose parts, unless you buy something like alien ware which are the same parts pre assembled and with a hefty price increase)

Pc has the potential for top graphics, a huge indie scene, mods, is a multifunctional platform (movies, music, games, work, etc) that works the way you want it to. it's also upgradeable part by part, you might spend 1000 euros (1340.20 U.S. dollars) for a new pc, but once you've got one ( a 600 euro pc will probably play anything that's optimized although not on max settings) you can periodically upgrade parts for 50-200 euros and be able to play anything released.

it does not have gta5.... that is a pretty big minus.... good thing it has fallout 2 , that evens it out a bit.

now i'm going to use my epic gaming pc to play minecraft and see if i can make my pc crash by exploding half a million tnt blocks.

Cheers

 

[search_rip]

forgive me because I'm not technically savy but I remember MS even dare to say that the Xbox One will support 4K resolution (3840×2160) (2160p) video output and comes with a 4K grade HDMI... and all that becomes a blatant lie because it's stuck at 720p... am I right?