Jimquisition: Corrupt, Censoring, Suicidal Indie Devs

[Zacharious-khan]

JIM HAS A YOUTUBE CHANNEL WITH ORIGINAL CONTENT?!

WHY. HAS. THIS. NOT. BEEN. MENTIONED. EARLIER?

sub'd

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Am I the only one finding it ironic that Sterling is making an argument about censorship on a website that remove your comment for simply asking "Why"?

Um, who/what are you taking about? Did they just post "Why?" and nothing else?

What comment was removed, or do you mean they got a warning?

yeah, censoring criticism sucks. like implementing a CoC that banns people for publicly airing their grievances with how something is done.

you will not Escape the wrath of the guy who advertised his personal Youtube channel on the Escapist!
Thank God for Jim

Dude, you can't advertise on the side without paying them. That's what the other people who advertise did (that or they are partnered with/work with the site/people).

If you didn't pay them to show off stuff from your channel, they don't have to let it stay there. That isn't censorship, that's business.

Unless your channel is un-monetized. Then I could understand your grievance.

 

[Malbourne]

You can't attract more subscribers if you're that subtle, Jim. C'mon, get with the tweeters and the bookface.

OT: There don't seem to be many repercussions or security measures meant to dissuade these kinds of acts. Thank god for Jim and media outlets that take this sort of thing seriously and don't try (too hard) to make it a nice spectacle for the rest of us.

 

[SilverUchiha]

Jim, while I certainly enjoy your bashing of arrogant indie devs who think they can get away with this kind of bullshit simply because they're indie and their games are "early access," I do think doing this kind of video is getting a little old and is starting to leave a negative vibe about the whole "early access" indie scene.

I'm not saying your wrong, but perhaps we could get an episode focused on some of the positive things to have come from Steam Greenlight and the Early Access process? A sign to show that while these horror stories are true and we have to be careful when dealing with the Muxwells and Kobras, there are at least one or two cases out there that do it right, but just don't get the same press as the negative devs. Thus, they're sort of forgotten or pushed aside in the process.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Here's the thing, the phrase "Any publicity is good publicity" only works when it comes to opinion. Take a pop star, for example. They probably love that their anti-fans are just about as rabid as the fans, because it means that there's that-many more people out there plastering their name all over the place to get more exposure. This is why I tend to just ignore the things I don't like, because I know that if I go on Facebook and start griping about the musicians I hate, I'm basically just feeding the beast. When your company is being legitimately shitty though? You do NOT want that getting out. There are few things that people hate more than being censored.

ProTip for all devs: A bad review is better than news that you're censoring bad reviews.

 

[andersgeek]

To be fair, Best of Steam Greenlight is not criticism. It's comedy. It's pisstaking. I'm not saying that justifies abuse of Youtube's system, but when your content consists of taking the piss out of someone else's work without any constructive analysis, then I feel it would be best to be a bit more mild about potential backlash, kind of like what Retsupurae does with their content (they take it down themselves immediately if the target objects to it).

You got a point there, certainly. It's why I don't really like Jim's "Best of Greenlight" series.

On the other hand, this whole thing is about a trailer for a game. Trailers are being made as promotional material to be used by third parties to talk about [and, ideally, advertise] the product in question. A copyright claim for material that is generally covered by "fair use" policies is a whole nother level of idiocy atop the censoring criticism business and deserves to be called out.
Though, to be fair, most of Europe doesn't use this concept and the devs being Russian, it's some kind of cultural clash, I guess. Still, it's very bad form on the devs' part when there're a non-nuclear options to go about.

 

[Steve the Pocket]

I had no idea indie debs could pull such heinous bullshit! I'm more used to the Big Publishers Bad / Indie Studios Good dichotomy (that you yourself have drilled into my mind), but It's surprising to learn it's not that black-and-white after all.

Any studio is at much at risk of turning out to be evil as any other. It's just that the ones who have made it big are more likely to get away with it because they have so many fans left who won't call them on their shit. And are less likely to specifically try to censor criticism, for the same reason. One bad review that gets a lot of attention can destroy a brand-new indie studio, whereas tons of people will still buy EA's games because their target market is already mostly people with bad taste. And even EA was caught banning people from Origin - locking them out of their games as well as the community - for something as simple as trying to find workarounds for bugs. But like I said, big company = able to get away with it.

On that note, I'm disappointed that there was no calling out of Steam for giving developers admin privileges in the Steam community. Depending on who you listen to, criticizing their game or even reporting bugs with the intent of getting the attention of the QA team can get your thread deleted at best, and possibly get you banned from the entire Steam community. The trouble is, I have no idea who to believe.

 

[Mikeyfell]

yeah, censoring criticism sucks. like implementing a CoC that banns people for publicly airing their grievances with how something is done.

you will not Escape the wrath of the guy who advertised his personal Youtube channel on the Escapist!
Thank God for Jim

Dude, you can't advertise on the side without paying them. That's what the other people who advertise did (that or they are partnered with/work with the site/people).

If you didn't pay them to show off stuff from your channel, they don't have to let it stay there. That isn't censorship, that's business.

Unless your channel is un-monetized. Then I could understand your grievance.

Who said anything about my channel?
Who said I have a channel?

I see links to Youtube videos on the Escapist all the time.
Hell I've posted links to Youtube videos and never got in trouble for it.
It's only fair that Jim can do the same.
The content creators following the same rules as the audience is fair.

Banning people from commenting just because they have a legitimate grievance with the way something works is just kind of shitty.
Just like Jim said in at least 4 videos
I'm just surprised that more people haven't caught on that that's a really shitty business practice that should be done away with.

If indy devs keep deleting criticism they'll just create an echo chamber of yes-men and people who don't know that they're being pushed around by an oppressive system, and if they keep getting away with it they'll never improve.

 

[Little Duck]

Hey remember when we hated this guy? Why can't these devs be like this guy? Take that criticism and make something better from it.

 

[Ima Lemming]

I got into a row [http://www.codiekitty.com/MOREC/misc3.htm] with an indie developer who released their terrible game (which also included plagiarism in the form of doctored sprites from Final Fantasy IV and Chrono Trigger, and a line pinched from Yahtzee's Witcher review) on actual Sega Genesis cartridges instead of a more mainstream outlet (though a port of it has been Greenlit).

Still, those guys should be counting their lucky stars that they've managed to stay far enough under the radar enough that they're answering to a nobody like me and not somebody like Jim Sterling.

 

[Eri]

Hey Jim, great episode, as per usual.

Just wanted to ask if you were going to make an episode regarding the Everquest Landmark title (which is in beta), seeing as it is apparently one, big, fiasco. Would love to hear your opinion on the matter.

Here's a review about it to give you an idea:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA97SqR9jvY#

According to Reddit, that video is full of crap. So maybe things are not as they seem.

 

[GamemasterAnthony]

Did anyone think of Cobra (GI Joe)? Cobra studios could be a an attempt by Cobra commander to take over the world through video games. Man that sounds stupid.

OT: Censorship on the internet won't work unless the individual doing it controls it as well. So yeah we maybe hearing stories of indie devs behaving like this for a long time.

I so forsee Angry Joe taking advantage of that to mock Cobra studios. (If he hasn't already.) Those who have seen some of his reviews know what I'm talking about. EDIT: And direkiller beat me to the punch on that point.

Personally...I'm surprised by one thing. In the wake of all these exposures of indie developers pulling this crap, why hasn't there been any sort of prosecution against them? I'd be more than willing to file criminal charges against these twatmonkies if I knew who to file a complaint to if this bullshit and chips happened to me!

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Firstly.

If indy devs keep deleting criticism they'll just create an echo chamber of yes-men and people who don't know that they're being pushed around by an oppressive system, and if they keep getting away with it they'll never improve.

Sadly, I'm doubt the people Jim is going after are interested in even putting out good games, let alone improving.

Second.

Who said anything about my channel?
Who said I have a channel?

True. You didn't say it was yours. However, when you say something like: "you will not Escape the wrath of the guy who advertized his personal Youtube channel on the Escapist!"

xD You can't completely blame me for thinking this was a bit more personal for you.

Third.

I see links to Youtube videos on the Escapist all the time.
Hell I've posted links to Youtube videos and never got in trouble for it.
It's only fair that Jim can do the same.
The content creators following the same rules as the audience is fair.

As I said, they get to advertise things because they work for the site. Kind of like how employees are able to give out personal business cards.

They make content for the site, so they get a pass because they do things for the site that directly helps them. That's fair game.

Finally.

Banning people from commenting just because they have a legitimate grievance with the way something works is just kind of shitty.
Just like Jim said in at least 4 videos
I'm just surprised that more people haven't caught on that that's a really shitty business practice that should be done away with.

You're being a bit vague. Did this person complain about not being able to advertise, or did they just advertise?
Also, if they protested the rule by braking it and advertising anyway, then they knew the risks, and got what was coming to them.

 

[Abnaxis]

Honestly, I've worked with enough small companies to say this type of censorship will always be a problem. The thing is, just because someone goes into an entrepreneurship, doesn't mean they will act professionally. I've worked for and with many smaller, 5-15 employee companies, and there are always a few owners, that will agonize over every bag of paperclips they have to buy because to them, that's less beers in their home cooler--they don't see it as a necessary expense, they see it as a personal sacrifice. Similarly, they will internalize any negative event in their business--like an employee leaving or a lost contract--in a personal way, and villify whoever they perceive as causing their ire.

I haven't worked with video game developers before, but I see the same behavior here. I see a lot of "did they really think that would work" in the video and in the comments, but the fact is "think" doesn't factor into it at all. Just because you have the skills and the drive to create a video game, doesn't mean you have the shrewdness or the fortitude to look at criticism in an objective way. I can say from experience, that there is a subsection of the population that will see the criticism as an assault on their way of life--costing them valuable Budweisers--and they actively look for any way to lash out at their perceived aggressors, whether it costs them in the long run or not.

That's not to say that the bullshit shouldn't be called out, just that the phenomena is by no means limited to indie games developers, it's more just a reality of dealing with small enterprises of all sorts. I hope the backlash will suffice to make people think before they lash out at critics (or better, make them think hard before releasing a game), but the core problem itself is never going to go away. It's human nature.

 

[CaitSeith]

The way I see it, triple AAA can be good or bad, nothing extreme (well, it doesn't seem so right now)

And that's so sad. AAA used to be symbol of awesomeness and creative breakthroughs. Now it's a symbol of hype and flashier graphics.

 

[Lunar Templar]

Hey remember when we hated this guy? Why can't these devs be like this guy? Take that criticism and make something better from it.

Because they lack something Jim has.

The understanding that they can always improve, and that they, the content creators, will not always see the critical flaws in their works. It takes humility to have your work ripped apart and listen to why people hated it and seek to improve it.

Devs like these twats, as well as the two the fucked with TB do not have this trait.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Really I thought the TB episodes would have been a loud enough message about this situation. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it I guess.

 

[Vegosiux]

Jim, while I certainly enjoy your bashing of arrogant indie devs who think they can get away with this kind of bullshit simply because they're indie and their games are "early access," I do think doing this kind of video is getting a little old and is starting to leave a negative vibe about the whole "early access" indie scene.

I'm not saying your wrong, but perhaps we could get an episode focused on some of the positive things to have come from Steam Greenlight and the Early Access process? A sign to show that while these horror stories are true and we have to be careful when dealing with the Muxwells and Kobras, there are at least one or two cases out there that do it right, but just don't get the same press as the negative devs. Thus, they're sort of forgotten or pushed aside in the process.

This is pretty much how I feel, yeah.

We know there's a lot of shit in the industry. And we know that it's going to keep happening if we let it happen and keep buying and buying into it.

But I think there's some such thing as too much focus on it. We keep hearing about the seedy underbelly of the industry. It would be nice to hear what's good about it now and then. I guess we get tired of even cynicism, and need to take a break for something lighter now and then.

And this isn't to bash Jimquisition, it's easily still one of my favorites...but I think one genuinely, non-ironically fluffy rosey episode per year would be quite nice

Really I thought the TB episodes would have been a loud enough message about this situation. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it I guess.

Wrong. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to have their butts kicked by the nerds who do!

 

[Vegosiux]

-blah, double post...-

 

[Madd the Sane]

Do they not know that filing a fake DMCA take down notice is a crime ? YOU could take them to court and win.

I doubt it would be Jim doing the suing. It'd more likely be YouTube itself.

Youtube needs a system by which it can have repercussions for people filing a false copyright strike. The system as it stands has lead to people unable to fight claims potentially having their accounts closed.

This. Oh so this.