Jimquisition: Corrupt, Censoring, Suicidal Indie Devs

Infernal Lawyer

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Oskuro said:
CrazyFikus said:
Censorship of valid criticism is bullshit
I find that qualifier troublesome, and have seen it used by several people on this very thread.
What is considered "valid" criticism? What isn't? Because I'm pretty sure that, in all the instances of publisher censorship Jim mentioned, the publishers were (and probably still are) convinced that those criticism where not "valid"


So lets fix it:

Censorship of any criticism is bullshit
I kinda-sorta disagree. I would argue that if you're not even TRYING to back up your opinion with anything more substantial than "this game is shitty", your opinion isn't required.
 

Infernal Lawyer

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NuclearKangaroo said:
Aaron Sylvester said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
actually id like something like this, often we hear a lot of shit from terrible indie game, how about bringing some light to some hidden gems?
To be fair hidden gems don't stay hidden for very long. They are quickly brought to the surface and become popular by sheer word of mouth (power of the internet etc :p).
well yeah, to an extend, but there are still some games out there that could use the spotlight, for instance, this game, looks super cool

http://store.steampowered.com/app/248310/?snr=1_7_15__13

is it any good? fucked if i know, its been 1 week since it came out and there are still no reviews on it, and 15 dollars is a bit too much of a gamble for me
I can't comment on the quality, but where the hell did you get the idea that there are no revies on it? There's only 202 for that game. Unless you meant ones outside of the Steam Store?
 

FFMaster

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lasati said:
On the other hand, I paused the video when you said "You do not start shit with a media personality" and that really struck me.
Was perfect fine with what he was saying. Even tho i do think on the whole its the game makers choice if videos of the game they make can be monetized for the gain of the person making the video. I still perfectly open to other views as the fair use stuff is a grey area still which really needs clearing up for good or ill.

However "You do not start shit with a media personality", sorry that abusing your position. You are basically say its fine to start shit with anyone else, but be nice and say please and thank you to someone in the media so they will be nice back. This is the bullshit that has caused the score inflation when it comes to gaming reviews making them mostly useless now. This is the rubbish that makes it so that people are less trusting of reviews for bigger games, because people "don't start shit with the media" so they pander to them, and the media pander back with quotes about how "Titanfall was the greatest game" ever and we should "believe the hype" (as an example, and look how that turned out).

Its elitist, its bollocks and it is a bully tactic. You basically just said "your the scrawny kid so i get to kick you in the face cause you did nasty to me", and its perfectly fine cause your a media personality. Rather than talk it out and inform the person why they are wrong in your videos like your normally do, you instead pull out the media personality card as a way to force your point through (because you don't shit with them remember).

Lots of respect lost from me here with that statement, will affect my viewership of both your vid and your new vid you do with yahtzee
 

Strazdas

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you know the worst thing about this? these developers do not get punished for this at all. they just go create a new studio with new name for almost no cost and continue the cycle. If the devs were legally punishable by law for wrongful claims (btw, all wrongful copyright claims should be, the way its set up now runs contrary to general principles of law) then they would actually learn.

Aaron Sylvester said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
actually id like something like this, often we hear a lot of shit from terrible indie game, how about bringing some light to some hidden gems?
To be fair hidden gems don't stay hidden for very long. They are quickly brought to the surface and become popular by sheer word of mouth (power of the internet etc :p).
No.

Popular gens dont stay hidden for long. some games are niche games (nothing wrong with that) and only attract audience of that niche. they could be great, but if that niche is not large enough it may not get to frontpage ect.

NuclearKangaroo said:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/248310/?snr=1_7_15__13

is it any good? fucked if i know, its been 1 week since it came out and there are still no reviews on it, and 15 dollars is a bit too much of a gamble for me
actually 11.5 on humble store right now. steam is hardly ever chepest.
 

NuclearKangaroo

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Infernal Lawyer said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
Aaron Sylvester said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
actually id like something like this, often we hear a lot of shit from terrible indie game, how about bringing some light to some hidden gems?
To be fair hidden gems don't stay hidden for very long. They are quickly brought to the surface and become popular by sheer word of mouth (power of the internet etc :p).
well yeah, to an extend, but there are still some games out there that could use the spotlight, for instance, this game, looks super cool

http://store.steampowered.com/app/248310/?snr=1_7_15__13

is it any good? fucked if i know, its been 1 week since it came out and there are still no reviews on it, and 15 dollars is a bit too much of a gamble for me
I can't comment on the quality, but where the hell did you get the idea that there are no revies on it? There's only 202 for that game. Unless you meant ones outside of the Steam Store?
outside the steam store yes

no metascore yet

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/freedom-planet
 

NuclearKangaroo

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Strazdas said:
you know the worst thing about this? these developers do not get punished for this at all. they just go create a new studio with new name for almost no cost and continue the cycle. If the devs were legally punishable by law for wrongful claims (btw, all wrongful copyright claims should be, the way its set up now runs contrary to general principles of law) then they would actually learn.

Aaron Sylvester said:
NuclearKangaroo said:
actually id like something like this, often we hear a lot of shit from terrible indie game, how about bringing some light to some hidden gems?
To be fair hidden gems don't stay hidden for very long. They are quickly brought to the surface and become popular by sheer word of mouth (power of the internet etc :p).
No.

Popular gens dont stay hidden for long. some games are niche games (nothing wrong with that) and only attract audience of that niche. they could be great, but if that niche is not large enough it may not get to frontpage ect.

NuclearKangaroo said:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/248310/?snr=1_7_15__13

is it any good? fucked if i know, its been 1 week since it came out and there are still no reviews on it, and 15 dollars is a bit too much of a gamble for me
actually 11.5 on humble store right now. steam is hardly ever chepest.
you get the idea, kangaroo likes to be careful with his money, ill usually check some professional reviews about a game, maybe check the steam store for some extra feedback, then buy the game
 

Kingjackl

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FFMaster said:
However "You do not start shit with a media personality", sorry that abusing your position. You are basically say its fine to start shit with anyone else, but be nice and say please and thank you to someone in the media so they will be nice back. This is the bullshit that has caused the score inflation when it comes to gaming reviews making them mostly useless now. This is the rubbish that makes it so that people are less trusting of reviews for bigger games, because people "don't start shit with the media" so they pander to them, and the media pander back with quotes about how "Titanfall was the greatest game" ever and we should "believe the hype" (as an example, and look how that turned out).

Its elitist, its bollocks and it is a bully tactic. You basically just said "your the scrawny kid so i get to kick you in the face cause you did nasty to me", and its perfectly fine cause your a media personality. Rather than talk it out and inform the person why they are wrong in your videos like your normally do, you instead pull out the media personality card as a way to force your point through (because you don't shit with them remember).

Lots of respect lost from me here with that statement, will affect my viewership of both your vid and your new vid you do with yahtzee
I wouldn't call it an 'abuse of his position', since the whole incident started when the developers chose to censor Jim's criticism. He wasn't singling them out when he criticised their game on his Youtube channel, since he does it for plenty of other Greenlight devs. The developers chose to react the way they did, and Jim is well within his right to fire back in kind. It's the job of the media to shed light on this sort of thing, and as a rule they do not like censorship. Any journalist worth his salt who has his work censored will fight to expose that shit. Your Titanfall example doesn't make sense, since if the media was abusing it's power over the industry, they wouldn't have to pander to publishers like that.

There have been a few people posting similar comments like this, and I think it's because it's one of the few Jimquisitions where he's kicking down, not up. When Jim slagged off EA, Ubisoft and Microsoft for shitty business practices, everyone was cheering him on. Now he's doing the same to low-budget indie developers and it makes him look like the bad guy. It doesn't seem to matter that what the developer did was genuinely anti-consumer and that they should be called out on it.

If his channel was the only example of this happening, then I would agree that he's abusing power to air a personal grievance. But, given that there have been similar incidents like the TB one, and the game's developers have started censoring criticism on their Steam page, I'd say it's an issue worth discussing. The fact that it's only happening with indies as opposed to triple A publishers is unexpected, but that doesn't mean the indies should be treated any better for it.
 

Bruce

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Kobra Studios - as incompetent at developing games as they are at fighting GI Joe.
 

medv4380

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zvate said:
medv4380 said:
The phrase Bad publicity is good publicity is still true. To understand it you have to go back to one of its original phrases for it.
Oscar Wilde said:
The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/there-is-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity.html

Jim, TB, and other being negative about a game is good publicity. Dev's attempting to censor people is actually the only thing worse than them talking about how bad their game is. Censorship is the silence that kills them.
Your the one failing to look to the source. Oscar Wilde based much of his career upon lampooning those he disliked and found objectionable... can you name a single one of them. I can't; but the message is what has persisted. I will probably forget Kobra studios tomorrow and not recall them again until I am browsing steam and see a familiar screen shot or a familiar name on the page... and then I will make a face and move on. No more and no less.

Also, Silence has yet to end a single dispicable human practise of any sort I can think of and is simply a pathetic and futile responce to anyone activly abusing others.
So your unable to see the parallel context of those who were attempting to silence Oscar Wilde's criticism. You must have a sad life with the inability to preserve even the most basic examples of irony.
 

Apl_J

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Video Game Industry: Where the little guy is an asshole, too. (So is the consumer, the big guy, and the critic).

That's just a generalization, of course, but its still begs the question of why this happens against all logic. I mean, I'm beginning to grow tired of Jimquisition solely because it talks about stupid decisions made by people in charge of my passion. Its absolutely depressing. Not only is it plain deplorable, its not even done well, even by the big guys with wallets and lawyers to throw around.

Goddamn, I hate the industry so much.
 

Raspberry Gecko

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It's intriguing that Jim mentioned Ashton Raze right at the start of the video, I believe they're one of the writers for a game called Starbound, whose developers have gone on a warpath of silencing criticism of the game and it's developers.

It's even seen one developer go as far as attempting to undermine the legitimacy of the overwhelming amount of critical reviews the game has received on Steam as one forum trolling, or as meaningless because they focus more on the developer's handling of the game's development than the game itself.
 

hydrolythe

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Ima Lemming said:
I got into a row [http://www.codiekitty.com/MOREC/misc3.htm] with an indie developer who released their terrible game (which also included plagiarism in the form of doctored sprites from Final Fantasy IV and Chrono Trigger, and a line pinched from Yahtzee's Witcher review) on actual Sega Genesis cartridges instead of a more mainstream outlet (though a port of it has been Greenlit).

Still, those guys should be counting their lucky stars that they've managed to stay far enough under the radar enough that they're answering to a nobody like me and not somebody like Jim Sterling.
Yeah, though I hear most reviewers actually liked the game. I have seen why you do not (and perhaps you would compare it to this http://www.lemon64.com/?mainurl=http%3A//www.lemon64.com/games/details.php%3FID%3D3135 ) and like you for it, though I still wonder what you have to say to the more mainstream critics that like it though, mainly as they have more influence on the general gaming community than you.
 

Sergey Sund

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Concerning youtube channels:
Jim, I have a small hint for you. It is my understanding that, if one of your YT channels gets 3 strikes it is deleted. Further, it will be illegal for you to just start a new YT channel when your old one gets taken down.
However, all YT channels that you currently possess at the time of the take down can remain in your possession.
So:
Why not create a bunch of safety-channels right now? It can be 3, it can be 10, holy shit, go out and make it 30!
Just have some backup channels around should this take-down shit go on!
Just remember to write down all the information for the extra email addresses, passswords, and shit that you're going to need. But look at it like this: Once you have spend an entire anfternoon doing nothing but making email addresses to create new fail safe channels you will never have to be frustrated by a channel strike again. If necessary, just burn your bridges, say "fuck it", and move on to the next channel name.
 

Demonchaser27

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I've lost a lot of love for indie development that I once had. For every Shovel Knight (I wish the game was a bit longer, although :/) there are at least 15 Guise of the Wolves. And I'll not lie, there is nothing these developers deserve to have in their favor for the laziness and intrepid shit they've been flinging. However, while I agree with the underlying tone of this episode, I'm not sure that I'm okay with how your handling it here Jim.

You're essentially playing the "my **** is bigger" card. I totally understand these type of indie devs as well as bigger companies deserve scorn for what they've been doing, but this episode felt like less of a criticism and more of a pissing match. Antagonizing people is bad, but even then to do so in this manner, solely because you know your in a better position than them. Its one of the things that bothered myself and you so bad about Microsoft was it not, Jim? This, "I can do whatever I want and say whatever I want because I have more power in this situation than you do." I most certainly believe its wrong what these devs are doing but the egoism in this particular episode came off quite a bit stronger than usual. I do imagine your growing tired of the attitudes of these devs, but I'm not sure this is the best way to solve this problem. Its like your testing them, drawing a line and daring them to cross it with a threat expulsion. This no-bars antagonism isn't something I necessarily agree with.
 

Ima Lemming

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hydrolythe said:
Ima Lemming said:
I got into a row [http://www.codiekitty.com/MOREC/misc3.htm] with an indie developer who released their terrible game (which also included plagiarism in the form of doctored sprites from Final Fantasy IV and Chrono Trigger, and a line pinched from Yahtzee's Witcher review) on actual Sega Genesis cartridges instead of a more mainstream outlet (though a port of it has been Greenlit).

Still, those guys should be counting their lucky stars that they've managed to stay far enough under the radar enough that they're answering to a nobody like me and not somebody like Jim Sterling.
Yeah, though I hear most reviewers actually liked the game. I have seen why you do not (and perhaps you would compare it to this http://www.lemon64.com/?mainurl=http%3A//www.lemon64.com/games/details.php%3FID%3D3135 ) and like you for it, though I still wonder what you have to say to the more mainstream critics that like it though, mainly as they have more influence on the general gaming community than you.
I have found two [http://rpgfan.com/reviews/Pier_Solar_and_the_Great_Architects/index.html] other [http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9117291] reviewers at major game sites who disliked it, though not nearly as much as I did. Granted, one of them spent his entire review complaining about it and still gave it a 69%.

As for why just about every other review of the game is positive, imagine if Twilight had been marketed in such a way that only teenage girls heard about it. Or if Muxwell had only made Earth: Year 2066 available to his friends.

Pier Solar is Genesis fanboy porn; the people it was catered to didn't care that there were only two enemy formations a dungeon, or that the story was made by ripping stuff from other 16-bit RPGs then stitching it all together with cliche, or that the developers stuck a line from an avid hater of JRPGs into a JRPG, they just wanted to see the Genesis pull off Mode 7.

I haven't played Zak McKracken, but since the developers never marketed their game by dredging up an embarrassing 20-year-old console war, nor insulted the competition while ripping it off, nor asked their friends at a major computer gaming website to nuke a poll because people were "trolling" it by giving the game low scores, I'm inclined to think any flaws it had were the result of developers who were just misguided instead of arrogant.
 

Wolf Hagen

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Huh? Apperantly the game was taken down from steam greenlight...
Nor anywhere on steam to be seen. Yay! :D
 

Fsyco

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Wolf Hagen said:
Huh? Apperantly the game was taken down from steam greenlight...
Nor anywhere on steam to be seen. Yay! :D
The game was originally released on Android last week, though, and is still available for purchase for 4 bucks. It has okay reviews, even (although I have no idea if the devs just removed the bad ones, but there is one 1-star review). They might actually still make money off this, since it seems like very Android gamers have heard of what the devs are doing to our Lord and Savior Jim Sterling.

medv4380 said:
The phrase Bad publicity is good publicity is still true. To understand it you have to go back to one of its original phrases for it.
Oscar Wilde said:
The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/there-is-no-such-thing-as-bad-publicity.html

Jim, TB, and other being negative about a game is good publicity. Dev's attempting to censor people is actually the only thing worse than them talking about how bad their game is. Censorship is the silence that kills them.

"No such thing as bad publicity" is a myth, because the word 'bad' can mean so many things, and there's a sort of uncanny-valley-esque thing going on with it. 'Bad' could mean the game is boring, buggy, generic, poorly designed, unimmersive, or a whole host of things. It has to be an interesting kind of bad that doesn't turn people away.

For example, when child stars do that thing where they re-invent themselves as edgy and sexual (latest incarnation: Miley Cyrus), it generates alot of buzz and controversy, but it's not too weird and out-there so that people still wanna buy their stuff. It's about partying and sex and drugs, and people generally like those things. Then you get to your "famous person says or does a thing they shouldn't" kind of controversy (Gary Oldman, Mel Gibson, Chris Brown), and those might create temporary spikes in buzz in the short term, but in the long term people don't want to associate themselves with whatever awful thing you said or did, which can kill a career.
 

Guilen-

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Overall point about censorship aside, the guy who looks vaguely like a nazi in this video sure makes an aspiring developer not even want to bother. This is lesser Escapist Magazine right here.