Jimquisition: Cutscenes Aren't A Failure State

[Therumancer]

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Actually...I wasn't trying for absurdity that time. Only pointing out that those aspects too are extraneous and do not, even taken as part of a whole define a game, again, it's the rules that do that.

But when I say something like:

This is like saying a cake isn't a cake because you put a cherry on top. I'm not saying it just to give you a silly image in your head. I'm saying it because I'm trying to create a analogy to make things a little simpler for both myself and you to understand...though clearly that isn't working. x)

But, with regards to the above, yeah, they're tools, but you know what? None of those are interactive in the slightest! I know...we like to think we're right there, and if the experience crafted is a successful one, I reckon that that -should- be the feeling you as the player are getting, but what I'm trying to get at, is that a cutscene is no different than using music, artwork and story to further and enhance this experience and only detracts from the game when it is used improperly, not merely used.

The only stumbling block I'm having with this is your insistence that the existence of such fundamentally changes the nature of a game entirely, and to such an extreme degree that it is no longer considered a game regardless of the full and actual impact on any given game. And more, that the use of cutscenes in games is a -problem- rather than a device that can be used for good or ill.

And sir, really, I can only disagree at this point, because there's not much else I can say...at least without devolving into further awful analogies rehashing the same things.

As for the trash talking robot, wasn't -this- soooo much fun?:

<youtube=wCgOqs0e4Ag>

on the video

Other than that, I will say that your dealing with absurdity because the analogy is inherantly ridiculous in the context of the debate. A cake is not defined in such a way that adding another ingrediant to it, causes it to stop being a cake. The cherry is just part of the ornamentation your adding to the frosting. A game on the other hand is defined by being playable, and through the interaction with it, when you remove that interaction from it, it ceases to be a game. Using cut scenes is removing the interaction from the game, because you are no longer controlling the events of the game, or interacting with it, but rather just watching things happen. Interactive movie, is a label that exists to distinguish a form of entertainment that includes interactive and non-interactive components, as opposed to games or movies which are made up of one or the other.


It's a simple pass/fail situation, which is why I'm talking about absurdities. Either it's interactive, or it's not. If your including cut scenes that move the product without any interaction from the player, then it's not a game any longer.

 

[RobfromtheGulag]

I was pretty down on cut-scenes, but thankfully Jimquisition reminded me of the good ones. I found the ending cg for Silent Hill 4 woefully inadequate for dragging the woman around half the entire game. I do enjoy watching bosses bit the dust after I've completed the battle, ala Devil May Cry [1].

As I mentioned in another post recently though, cutscenes should always be skip-able. Even if it's an RPG, some guy out there is going to find it enticing enough to play multiple times, and some, if not all the cutscenes are going to be wasted time for him. If you're there for the gameplay it's unpleasant to have to set the controller down for 10 minutes at a time here and there like Gould's apartment in Crysis 2 and go make a sandwich or something. One of those typical 'Press Start, Skip' options would enrich that gaming experience a lot.

 

[Grunt_Man11]

I thought the cutscenes in Gears 3 were executed superbly. Same for the Halo games - yet they wouldn't be so good in CoD or Portal.

And there's a reason for that.

CoD's soldier of the hour, and Portal's... ugh... portal gun using character are silent protagonists.
While Halo's Master Chief/Noble Six, and Gears of War's Marcus Fenix are NOT silent protagonists.

Call me crazy, but I don't think that's a coincidence.


Also, who else misses games with opening cut-scenes that get you pumped to play?

 

[217not237]

You know, I think cutscenes are like stealth or QTEs. When they're done well, like in my all time favorite game, Silent Hill 2, great, give 'em to me. However, they're done poorly, like in my all time least favorite game, Metal Gear Solid 4, I just think they're a bother. Metal Gear Solid 4 failed by having a cutscene:gameplay ratio of about 1:1, even though a lot of it lacked any real purpose. 45 minutes of enough plot points to fill maybe 10 minutes. It really felt like filler there, and I could have spent that time, I dunno, reading a book. In Silent Hill 2, though, it's implemented really well. It doesn't have any cutscenes that would have been made just as good in gameplay, and they are all fairly brief and important. Anything minor the game wants you to see can be seen, you just have to LOOK for it. This is perfect for a game since it embraces the game aspect without entirely selling itself to gameplay. Also, I'd rather see the camera take fascinating camera angles in a scene that has no real interactivity than the standard camera. Zooming in on Maria in the cutscene just before James fought the two Pyramid Heads was great at showing me what was going on in an exciting way.

 

[ChupathingyX]

Visual Novels are NOT a sub-genere of video games, they are a sub-genere of books (novels) that are simply working in an electronic format. "Choose Your Own Adventure" books gone electronic.

What about visual novels such as Symphonic Rain, Kamidori or Sengoku Rance?

 

[Kahunaburger]

Cutscenes are okay. But they fall into the same category as CoD style limited-interactivity "cinematic" experiences - things that do not involve playing the game. Too many cutscenes get very obnoxious very quickly.

 

[Metalrocks]

i never had any problems with cut scenes. i was always happy when one came. like jim said, after a hard battle against a boss, you do enjoy a cut scene were you can sit back and relax a bit. and at times it is the only way to explain the story line better then being interactive all the time.
cant understand people why they winch about it. is it really a must to be in control the entire game like in HL? no, you dont have to be.

nice episode

 

[DTWolfwood]

I like cinematics more than cutscenes.

It just feels like more effort was put into it

 

[Vault101]

I agree

Ive actually said it myself..they are just a tool, somthing that can be used for good or bad

 

[ThoughtlessConcept]

The earliest game I remember where the cut-scenes really added to the game had to be Final Fantasy 10, they were so epic and extremely beautiful at the time, they made my eyeball's tingle.

 

[Acier]

Jim, I don't know if you read the comments but...

The moment I saw Deadly Premonition I squealed with delight. An underdog of a game with many flaws that was able to overcome them and provide an overall entertaining experience.

Oh and good argument as always. Taking my internal arguments and wrapping them up in a eloquent, posh sounding, and handsome burrito of joy.

 

[jovack22]

lol s club 7 brings back some memories...

 

[targren]

Yes. Yes they do. So does the skip button.

All too often, no it doesn't.

Latest offender I've played: Lego Pirates of the Carribean.

Yes, I've seen the movies, and yes, the little gags can be amusing the first time through. Making me sit through them every time I replay a chapter in story mode, however, is a dick move.

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

I've always looked at cutscenes as take 'em or leave 'em.
But I do have *one* that I really don't like in God Of War III, the one near the beginning just before you get blasted down to Hades. I have just played through one of the most epic openings I have ever played and all of a sudden things get really slow.
I slaughtered dozens of olympian soldiers, saved the mighty titan, Gaia, from a ten-mile long sea-serpent/horse, killed the great god of the sea, Poseidon, by mercilessly beating him against the mountain he used to call his home, and successfully summited the tallest of mounts, Olympus. Topped off with Kratos and Zeus giving their war cries:
"I will have my revenge!"
"Petulant child! I will tolerate your insolence no more!"
I am no more ready to fight the king of the Gods than I am RIGHT THERE, and then he blows me down to Hades for a lot of block-dragging, note-reading, and lever-turning.
I understand they need to balance out the excitment of that opening with something slow, and I know it would be a criminally short game if you fought Zeus right there, but d*mn, it's just so anti-climactic!

 

[notimeforlulz]

They aren't such a bad idea, they can break up the action for pacing's sake so that the player doesn't get bored of the game play altogether in an action heavy game.

 

[zehydra]

Meh, cut-scenes might be good for story-telling but they're bad for immersion.

 

[loudestmute]

Jim Sterling: The S-Club 7 of video games.

I wonder how MovieBob would take to being called "The Zebrahead of film critics"