Jimquisition: Downloadable Discontent

[Something Amyss]

What, you wouldn't be upset if someone raved and ranted at you for something you've never done, treating as if you had done it? I know I would be. I know I find the concept of "guilt by association" reprehensible.

To be fair, wouldn't that apply to the Jimquisition on Hepler? Because I have watched it (and pretty much every Jimquisition) and I've never threatened Hepler or even Phil Fish. Clearly, it does not apply to me, yet I am not upset.

...Well, I'm upset that something as basic as "don't threaten people" needs to be said, but it does.

I'd also note we're talking about someone who didn't bother to watch what he claims to be offended by. That would be the equivalent of me seeing you responded, skipping reading it, quoting you, and being mad that you insulted me for my stance on Steam.

I know you didn't do that, because I read your post (even if I pared it down for the quote), but you take my point, I hope.

Okay steam is DRM there has always been DRM with games.

And now it's guaranteed to be on any game in your Steam library!

Seriously, "disk" is not DRM, though. It's a platform. An audio CD is not, by its nature, copy protected[footnote]in fact, by Blue Book standards a copy protected CD is not a CD[/footnote]. Disks were copyable. Copy protection has existed through most of the history, but it's never been standard. Valve made the biggest leap in this field.

I don't know why people feel the need to apologise for Steam and pretend everyone else has always been as bad.

Ironic, coming from you Amaranth, as you're quite adept at judging people. Oh, yes I remember your antics on these forums, and it does not surprise me to see that you leap to the defense of content creators with nary a consideration to the people they insult.

I think I speak for many when I type these words: go bother someone else.

See, it's not ironic because any judgment or condemnation I may offer comes after actually reading, watching, or listening to things that are said. It doesn't even look like you read my post, since I mention specifically the irony of judging someone without having even bothered to listen to what they had to say. You admitted this. You said you didn't bother with Sterling's "rant" and yet you claimed you knew exactly what he said. Believe it or not, that is not the same as "judging" someone after you have heard them speak.

And, for the record, I am not leaping to anyone's defense. You have an intellectually dishonest argument and have professed such with what seems like pride. I abhor dishonesty. I would also note your premise is false, because Jim gets enough responses from people to demonstrate the types of people he's addressing do watch the show. It's not a mutually exclusive pool. There's a lot of them. Go figure.

It's nice that you remember me. I wonder, however, if you remember things I actually said, or if you made similar presuppositions to the ones you made here, or the ones you made to the video you didn't actually watch.

By your own words, I must add.

 

[Erttheking]

Snip

Snip

If this comes off as me butting in then I apologize for that but guys I really think both of you need to take a step back and calm down. The discussion that the two of you have been having is only a few posts long, but the way I see it it isn't going to end well. Both of you have taken one or two shots at each other already and it feels like you aren't talking about Jim and his videos and seem to be going at each other instead.. As it stands, I don't see this discussion going anywhere well. It's not constructive, it's already hostile, and to be honest it feels like it's getting personal very fast.

Come on guys. Please don't do this.

 

[deadpool.forever]

Jim is my official new man crush.

 

[daxterx2005]

Imagine having to pay for DK mode in 007?
Freaking ridiculous.

 

[Lyvric]

Yep, I agree with all of this. I think what bothers me the most about DLC despite the core concept is nice, is that most mobile/tablet games have to have it. It just feels like 90%+ of cellular games now have DLC worse than console/computer. This especially with the free before now costly concept.

 

[Saltyk]

Actually, I only watched the first sixty seconds of it, because I knew what it was going to be in it's entirety

Even better, you didn't bother watching it but cast judgment on the contents.

I like the fact that you're condemning echo chamber mentality from within an echo chamber. I'd call it irony, but that's become bog standard since Fox News went big in the 90s.

It's not my fault people lack basic pattern recognition. Jim's gotten so fucking predictable, I can guess with 86% accuracy the words and statements coming out of his mouth.

Ironic, coming from you Amaranth, as you're quite adept at judging people. Oh, yes I remember your antics on these forums, and it does not surprise me to see that you leap to the defense of content creators with nary a consideration to the people they insult.

I think I speak for many when I type these words: go bother someone else.

Hey did you watch THIS video? So you remember that part where Jim said he didn't buy the costume? Maybe you could use that concept towards Jim and his vids. I mean if you don't like him, you can just not watch him. Then, at worst, you don't have to be offended by him. At best, Jim would get fired and you wouldn't have to hear him on this site anymore. See how that would work?

Oh, but doing that might be admitting that Jim is RIGHT about something. And that is unacceptable. Just like admitting that something he literally discussed two weeks ago isn't nearly as bad as you're making it out is unacceptable. Or admitting that, if you don't threaten the family of people in the gaming industry, he isn't talking about you, and you don't really have any good reason to get offended. Other than because you want to. Or you actually are guilty of some similar acts and Jim made you feel bad. Or you just want to complain.

You know what? I think I'll just ignore you. You obviously have nothing of actual value to say on any subject.

 

[Something Amyss]

calm down.

One way to ensure I am not calm is to dishonestly assert I am not calm or in need of being calm.

I will say this once and only once. Unless you are actually trying to rile me up, don't tell me to calm down, especially simply for dismissing someone else's dishonesty. Don't infer an emotional state that is not there. It's more irritating than the ad hominems that were already being slung at me.

Do this again--ever again--and you go on my ignore list and that's the end of any discourse.

Are we clear?

 

[JemJar]

Though its been around longer DLC first came to my attention in the days of The Elder Scrolls Oblivion. Anyone remember the horse armor DLC, and the uproar it inspired? Discussion waxed hot and furious among gamers on the forums at the time with naysayers, of which I was one, arguing how this was a terrible idea that companies would rampantly abuse. Others, such as the people at Bethesda, claimed it would usher in a new age of enlightenment where games could be living protean creations that would evolve and stay fresh as players would get tons of tiny updates rather than having to wait months or longer for expansions.

Pick your company. Gearbox's handling of Borderlands 2 DLC has been quite competent - yes, they've got some overpriced skins on DLC but given there are plenty of options offered for free in the game (and one bonus on with each DLC *content* pack too) it doesn't offend unless you get that collectathon urge.

Pokémon has a lot to answer for.

Otherwise the DLC has been pretty solid - the game was released in September last year, four DLC content packs (quality has been variable and the first couple were outsourced, which isn't quite "ideal") which have genuinely added a lot of content to the game, a lot of hours of fun and a lot (LOT) of endgame silliness for those in the community running around with all the shiniest loot.

They've released a couple of extra characters (the first may have just about sneaked in as on-disc sadly, though I think it was a pre-order only code & download situation) to send the roster from 4 to 6, they've boosted the level cap from 50 to 61 with another new-game-plus mode scaled to fit (though some people whine about the difficulty with varying degrees of justification) and today they release the next level cap increase to 72 and a little chunk of weird content to keep pushing the challenge onwards and upwards. It's been reasonably well handled.

Obviously there are good and bad examples, I just thought I'd write up a single experience of a game from a decent size developer getting it, by-and-large, right.

 

[Erttheking]

calm down.

One way to ensure I am not calm is to dishonestly assert I am not calm or in need of being calm.

I will say this once and only once. Unless you are actually trying to rile me up, don't tell me to calm down, especially simply for dismissing someone else's dishonesty. Don't infer an emotional state that is not there. It's more irritating than the ad hominems that were already being slung at me.

Do this again--ever again--and you go on my ignore list and that's the end of any discourse.

Are we clear?

I apologize. You have been very vocal about your political views all over this website and I was under the impression of someone of your political standings would consider comparing someone to Fox News to be a very deep insult. To be honest that was the post that I mainly had in mind when I replied to you, the post where you compared MachineMan to Fox News, a post that came off as very hostile and insulting. It was a simple misunderstanding. I apologize. There was no need for a reply that sounds like you're trying to threaten me.

I...no hard feelings right? I honestly was just trying to diffuse what I thought was a situation that was on the brink of spiraling out of control. I swear to GOD I wasn't trying to get you angry.

 

[Something Amyss]

the post where you compared MachineMan to Fox News

If you have to misrepresent what I said, perhaps you are the one who needs to calm down.

I called his echo chamber mentality "bog standard." I did not draw comparison to Fox News. The proximity of the words do not indicate comparison.

And as I don't want to be prodded into a situation where I might risk moderation in the heat of the moment, I'm going to walk away from this line of conversation. It would be nice if you just dropped it, but I don't hold out hope for that, so I'm simply going to remove myself from the equation here.

 

[Erttheking]

the post where you compared MachineMan to Fox News

If you have to misrepresent what I said, perhaps you are the one who needs to calm down.

I called his echo chamber mentality "bog standard." I did not draw comparison to Fox News. The proximity of the words do not indicate comparison.

And as I don't want to be prodded into a situation where I might risk moderation in the heat of the moment, I'm going to walk away from this line of conversation. It would be nice if you just dropped it, but I don't hold out hope for that, so I'm simply going to remove myself from the equation here.

I'm sorry. If that was the situation and what you were trying to get across, I am truly and utterly sorry.

 

[Mayamellissa]

Basically he has said exactly what I told my friends the other day about why I'm no longer interested in a lot of DLC or many of the newest games. Hyperdimension Neptunia, Disgaea 5, and the newest DOA are also examples of this DLC offense. Characters necessary for a fleshed out wonderful game have been held ransom. Accessories and costumes are missing but oh look: there they are as DLC for at least a dollar or more when you could have gotten them for free in the past. Publishers who cut out important or entertaining pieces of games so they can make a buck or two more on the DLC are asking to get their bank accounts and games shoved up their asses and left out public displays of humiliation.

 

[Gunner 51]

I should be rightly riled up here, but I am not. I saw the practice of rip-off DLC coming years ago, but that's mostly because I'm a hard boiled cynic.

But like Jim, I do like the idea of DLC - but it's execution has been completely botched.

Back when it first started it took the form of meaty epansion packs and a fair price, But then it slithered onto Map Packs which were pretty expensive, but seeing how multiplayer games weren't quite ubiquitous as they are today - it never mattered that much.

But nowadays, the publishers are cutting slabs out of the games and reselling them on top of your 50 quid you paid for a full game to start with. I'm predicting that the future will be that you purchase a super basic game (at full price) with microtransactions to make up the difference, and at premium price at that.

The sad thing is that every gamer knows they're being ripped off and has repeatedly said "No more." But the sixty four thousand dollar question is "at what point do they actually speak with closed wallets?"

 

[wulfgar_red]

CDP RED is doing good job with support after game release, so usually i buy their stuff at full price because. know they will add content for free and improve game. vote with your wallet

 

[Psychobabble]

the post where you compared MachineMan to Fox News

If you have to misrepresent what I said, perhaps you are the one who needs to calm down.

I called his echo chamber mentality "bog standard." I did not draw comparison to Fox News. The proximity of the words do not indicate comparison.

And as I don't want to be prodded into a situation where I might risk moderation in the heat of the moment, I'm going to walk away from this line of conversation. It would be nice if you just dropped it, but I don't hold out hope for that, so I'm simply going to remove myself from the equation here.

I'm sorry. If that was the situation and what you were trying to get across, I am truly and utterly sorry.

You have absolutely no reason to apologize. Both of them inflicted their spate of petty bickering on the rest of us, you simply asked them to stop before it got out of hand. With I might add the best of intentions as it seems your concerns were for them, not yourself.

Amaranth's angry browbeating of you over his wounded feelings, even after you offered apology, shows me that while this person holds his own feelings as sacrosanct, he has little respect for the feelings of others. My advice would be to simply add him to your ignore list, as I am doing, and this sad situation will never again occur.

 

[putowtin]

As I've always said, "you don't have to buy it if you don't want it!"

Let me explain, I'm not saying it right to charge $5 for a skin (clothing or weapon) and if your game has been out a while then drop your DLC price, after all it may attract new customers/players. The Oblivion Horse Armour was... well silly, it is a skin, not a very helpful skin, but people bought it, so to them it have value (or they were completionist, and believe me I know that pain)

If you feel a DLC will expand your enjoyment/ add length to a game and you're willing to spend your hard earned cash on it, then go ahead. If however, you think the price is too high or your not sure what it will add, then don't be surprised if you don't like it when curiosity compels you to purchase!

 

[Quellist]

The "Tales of..." series is probably one of my favorite JRPG series, and yet I will never buy DLC for it, ever. You even had some footage of the Tales of Vesperia DLC, where it wants you to pay real money for things like a one time buy of extra experience or money, and not even that much of it. 300,000 gald isn't worth any amount of real money.

I completely agree but its gotten worse, with Xillia almost all of the costumes (which as i'm sure you know have traditionally been rewards for sidequests) are now DLC only

 

[JimB]

I know this is off topic, but Jim have you lost some weight? You look a bit slimmer.

I actually thought the same thing. Maybe it's just the hair and glasses, but I don't think so.

 

[Eve Charm]

I'm going to attack the tales series here because there is doing it right and doing wrong. Now no comment on buying glad or xp, thats as bad as battlefield and every other game for quick unlocks, you want to waste that money go right ahead, It's only more scumbaggy the harder the stuff your selling is to unlock. Persona 4 arena takes the cake there, You want your fav character to be your support during battle, get ready to do some insane task or insane grinding or pay like 3 bucks... Lets go after Vanity items here!

Now the full disclosure is, anyone that played and beat Tales of games around the ps2 or even ps1 era before the whole DLC marketplace extra costumes were free on the disc. You unlocked them mainly by getting an title in the game, and then equipping the title changed your costume, or you beat the game and in the new game plus shop costumes were a choice for your next play-through. Did these costumes add anything to the gameplay, No but a player that goes through a lot to unlock something, vanity or useless or not, Is so much better then points added to a meaningless score.

Now something that just vanity whither or not the player or community buy it or not an how much they buy depends on pricing! When your stuff is in a market place one thing you should do is price your stuff Competitively! When Tales games are asking 3-5 dollars for their vanity costumes a piece, and another game is offering 1-2 dollars per or an discount if you buy a set of four buy 2 or 3 dollars. Now I have to point the finger at Little Big Planet and say, This guy, does it right. I've spend upwards of probably 30 bucks on LBP 1 vanity items alone, probably the same amount on LBP 2, Did I have to, Hell no, Just buying and playing the game you unlock or get outfit pieces to make upwards of 20 themed outfits not counting you can mix and match everything. Driving the nail in harder the game was online, if you bought some costumes and made an badass sack boy or girl you could show it off yo uour buddies in game because the costumes you bought came in pieces and they are mix and matchable to. Also not that we needed more of a reason to check the shop they gave out a lot of stuff, For FREE. Lastly to drive some value added, to your purchases, when LBP vita came out and they said, "Hey guys you know all that stuff you bought for LBP 1 and LBP 2, well you get to use all that stuff in the vita version and don't have to pay a cent to do it, also that goes the same for karting, oh and wait if you buy vita stuff that will work on LBP2 for the PS3..." Now I'm pretty damn sure I'm not the only one that looked at that and said "Here's a bunch of money for everything I remotely want cause that is FRIGGEN AWESOME!"

Now looking at tales, You may or not unlock a costume on your own in game, I'm not really sure, but they basically say, "Don't want the default costumes, Pay me 5 bucks in graces, 3 buck in Xillia. Oh you want everyone to look the same, 30 or 40 bucks in Graces, 18 bucks in Xillia. Now a bit worse, if you want all the costumes in Xillia, right now if the 3rd set they've shown hit the market place, 54 bucks plus your planning on more already and the games been out a month about? Is that worth it for just costumes that you can't mix and match, can't show off, and really do nothing, No. Now I don't have to buy it I know, but Namco sure as hell wants me to buy it advertising it to no end. Hell the 3rd set is costumes classic characters wore to try to pull at nostalgia to weasel the money out of me. Now this has been a complaint since Vesperia in what 2009 so I'm not the only one that feels this way and till they set the price at a decent price, I won't buy it. 1 to 1.50 per or a complete pack for 5 or 7 bucks hell ya, 18 not an chance.

Now as for competition, DOA 5 of all games, gives you 2 - 3 times as many costumes for the same amount of money you would spend on Xillia costumes. This is DOA for friggen sake. It's not like in the game already they don't have a ton of costumes to choice from and I'm sure as hell with umm physics and how in decent some of them look, they took a lot more time and effort to make! I mean, if you can't even out price them and basically everyone else on the market, I'll buy their crap first before I think of wasting money on your crap.

 

[JPArbiter]

a friend of mine and I had an interesting conversation about DLC as it relates to Fallout New Vegas. he called it BS because many of the things integrated into the DLC were being developed for the main game and then cut, particularly Ulysses, Elijah, and the Burned man quest arcs.

my argument was that was what made them good, they fit within a certain context, and allowed content that was being developed but cut due to time or budget to be brought back, albeit not in the originally planned way.