Jimquisition: Fake Nerd Girls
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Just guessing, and feel free to disagree with mere here, but maybe there's an element of hypocrisy on the part of the women that do go to conventions dressed like pikachu in a miniskirt. The idea that they can essentially pander, even totally whore themselves out for attention, then criticize or even badger men for being attracted to that sort of thing. It's like the old joke about showing cleavage then being shitty to men for looking. I'm just guessing here.
Or maybe enough men have been derided for being shiftless video gamers by women and this is some sort of backlash?
Or maybe men are tired of watching other men get all saccharine or turn into creepy stalkers because women attract this kind of attention deliberately and shift the conversation away from games and too how hot she looks dressed in that cheerleader outfit? Even I admit frustration when I wanted to talk about a game and women turned themselves into big sexy game related ornaments to divert the conversation to themselves (No I'm sure they don't dress in skimpy outfits for attention and to feel attractive, who the hell wants that, right?)
There's a reason for everything, even if said reason is trivial, so I'm sure there's a reason for this.
Or maybe enough men have been derided for being shiftless video gamers by women and this is some sort of backlash?
Or maybe men are tired of watching other men get all saccharine or turn into creepy stalkers because women attract this kind of attention deliberately and shift the conversation away from games and too how hot she looks dressed in that cheerleader outfit? Even I admit frustration when I wanted to talk about a game and women turned themselves into big sexy game related ornaments to divert the conversation to themselves (No I'm sure they don't dress in skimpy outfits for attention and to feel attractive, who the hell wants that, right?)
There's a reason for everything, even if said reason is trivial, so I'm sure there's a reason for this.
Words change. In the same breath as saying that nerd means something to be derided, but someone also needs to go through that sort of dirision to have pride in the name, well, that's hypocracy.GLo Jones said:
Nerd and geek culture have been commodified and is the popular thing right now. We should be revelling in it.
I was one of those who suffered through it, and it offends me that one must go through that to be accepted these days.
I used to hate these Mega64 bits, but then I realized this is them making fun of the extreme and often twisted views some guys have of girls as gamers.
Enjoy!
Enjoy!
Well it seems pretty obvious.. I don't have an issue with videogame hot girls. Or hot non videogames girls, or hot videogame dudes.. or any combination of likenesses..
But FAKE is something that is understandably annoying.
As lots of other people, I have a problem with phoneyness in general. I've met some very attactive men/women that are into videogames, and you can tell their love for the subject, on the other hand I've met insecure people pretending to love videogames that etray themselves and sound like some stereotype just to fit into a group. And there lies the problem... why pretend to be something that you are not? what purpose does it serve? Is it insecurity that makes you show yourself in a certain way just to be accepted?
It's honestly sadenning to see people like that, and personally I find that it can also get extremely annoying when people bastardize the things you love as a fashionable product.
In general when someone has a deep personal understanding / love for something, and he/she sees someone else capitalizing on the commercial / superficial aspects of that something... it is annoying.
So.. duh... pretty weak episode.. I suppose you're tired jim.
But FAKE is something that is understandably annoying.
As lots of other people, I have a problem with phoneyness in general. I've met some very attactive men/women that are into videogames, and you can tell their love for the subject, on the other hand I've met insecure people pretending to love videogames that etray themselves and sound like some stereotype just to fit into a group. And there lies the problem... why pretend to be something that you are not? what purpose does it serve? Is it insecurity that makes you show yourself in a certain way just to be accepted?
It's honestly sadenning to see people like that, and personally I find that it can also get extremely annoying when people bastardize the things you love as a fashionable product.
In general when someone has a deep personal understanding / love for something, and he/she sees someone else capitalizing on the commercial / superficial aspects of that something... it is annoying.
So.. duh... pretty weak episode.. I suppose you're tired jim.
How paranoid do you have to be to think talking to someone is a test? If someone is wearing a damn pikachu shirt and I happen to really like pokemon, then of course I'm going to want to talk to her about pokemon and of course if she doesn't know, it's going to be disappointing. When that happens over and over, and every attempt and video game discussion with a pretty lady ends the same way, people are going to start getting fucking irritable.Taunta said:
So no, not every attempt at conversation over a t-shit/costume/keychain etc. is a fucking pop quiz. Sometimes we're just excited to see someone with think shares an interest with us and want to talk about it.
I've never attended a gaming convention so I don't really know where all this stuff comes from, but booth babes would be different because they are promo models. They'll act like their interested in the game/games while in costume because it's their jobs. Tomorrow they might be modeling in a bikini at a car show acting interested in muscle cars. You will find out who the real person is if you see or know them in between the jobs.Combustion Kevin said:
Your right. Any problems I have with a new person assimilating into a group is at least half my fault. I just want to relay the fact that it is always difficult for any culture (especially an ill defined one such as nerd culture) to incorporate elements that are perceived as different. Jim didn't even try to tackle the issue but just said people where stupid for not immediately getting over their credulity and accepting whatever is the new talking point of the month.ShadowKirby said:
But wouldn't women who have been a part of the "nerd culture" for as long as the men also be wary of posers/fakes or newcomers? I am also afraid that if I am publically happy that full grown women dress up as sexy mlp characters because it adorable I will be labled as a hormone crazed sexist that only views women as sex objects. I feel like I can't win no matter what position I take up here.
Because the original post was portrayed as one. Read between the lines.irmasterlol said:
"She said she liked video games and could only name one console."(In a list of "fake gamer girls", so we already know the conclusion to this story)
"She said she liked video games" (so I asked her about consoles) "And she could only name one console" (therefore she "failed the test" and I determined her "fake", because we already know I determined her "fake" when the story began)
Also, again, last time I checked, knowledge about the source material is not required for buying a t-shirt that you think is cute. Just because someone doesn't know about Pokemon doesn't mean you can't still talk to them about Pokemon. Maybe it means they're interested in Pokemon but never really had a chance to get into it. This is your chance to teach them about Pokemon, but instead you (or the OP) choose to reject them. That doesn't make them very likely to try to get into Pokemon again.
And the point is not about "people who get disappointed when someone is not as interested in something as you are". It's about "people who set arbitrary rules for (specifically) women to prove themselves worthy enough to join their arbitrary club".
I never said every attempt at conversation was a pop quiz, thanks for putting words in my mouth. But the examples in the OP were quizzes.
Wait, nerd girls are a thing?
Wait, FAKE nerd girls are also a thing!?
Wait, people are angry about this?!
Meh, doesn't bother me either way, although I do like the "safe male haven" idea.
I'm also not surprised that the video for Lollipop Chainsaw was not shown in the UK...
Wait, FAKE nerd girls are also a thing!?
Wait, people are angry about this?!
Meh, doesn't bother me either way, although I do like the "safe male haven" idea.
I'm also not surprised that the video for Lollipop Chainsaw was not shown in the UK...
Actually Jim it would have been nice if you addressed the actual issue. Interestingly you don't touch the issue of the reception less attractive, or those of average apperance, receive in comparison.
You also seem to miss the point that the arguement "they aren't hurting anyone" doesn't apply here, you say you can't understand how this hurts anyone, but if that's the case I can't help but wonder how closely you've listened to the actual complaints.
The rage over the "fake nerd girls" is pretty much about exploitation. The basic idea being that if you have a hot girl promote something, it's going to manipulate men into spending money on that product or service. If you put a hot girl into the equasion on a product aimed at a male demographic famous for not having any luck with girls at all, it's even more effective. That's advertising in a nutshell, and in of itself wouldn't be that big a deal, IF it wasn't being directly tied to the whole "Camwhore" phenomena and other internet honey traps. The idea being that a fairly attractive girl, seperated by the barrier of The Internet, but able to promote herself, can insinuate herself into communities of people starving for female attention, and then parley her attention into gifts and benefits, through generating "hits" for a channel if nothing else. Some of the contreversies over online gift or "wish lists" have also circulated around girls doing this kind of thing using such services to receive their payment.
The anger in this case isn't so much about wanting to keep "fandom" male only, so much as it is that most of the guys getting upset wish that there were attractive women into this stuff, but there are so many fakes that it has become expected.
There is also a little more to the "cred" involved than you, or other critics speaking against this, want to give credit to. A nerd is by definition a social outcast, a pariah, a hermit, who is scorned by society. Someone who by nessecity takes escapism to extremes, and winds up becoming an expert on a lot of this kind of media. A greater-than normal interest in comics, video games, or whatever does NOT make you a nerd or "hardcore" in this context. Your attractive girl by definition can and does fit into society, and that creates a barrier that is hard to overcome, not to mention means that the person is going to lack the focus to become the "real deal" in regards to the media itself. To put things into perspective here if you look at a lot of these "Nerd Girl Responses" people have been trying to get to catch on, like oh "I haven't read every issue of Batman, and neither have you", kind of miss the point that a real nerd who is fiaxated on Batman probably HAS read every issue of Batman, going to extreme lengths to obtain scans if nothing else. What's more it goes further than that, let's say "hot nerd girl" is an expert on Batman and has more than a passing of interest, understand that the REAL nerd is probably also an expert on half a dozen other things to the same degree. This occurs because the Nerd literally has no life in a traditional sense due to beign a Nerd, a pariah, an outcast.
Also I'll point out that men DO get the same kind of responses, with gaming and "geek culture" becoming a bit more popular, there has also been a backlash against "casuals" in general and in paticular against the "Bro" or "Fratboy" involvement in gaming, to the point of that group being mocked even more than the false nerd girls. It's just that you see less desperate nerd boys wanting to white knight some jock.
Basically, if your one of those who can claim to have a life other than gaming or "nerd media", a solid circle of friends you deal with in person (as opposed to other nerds you deal with at a safe distance), and similar things, then your really not a "nerd" in this context. That might not bother the nerds if it wasn't being used for purposes of manipulation, or if you didn't have people demanding and receiving "cred" as nerd-culture experts when they hardly fit the bill.
I guess what I'm saying is that the nerd-cosm is a refuge for the pathetic, now that it's producing something that society is beginning to value, there are attempts to take that without the rest of it. Not to mention is that your typical outcast longs for acceptance on their own terms, when you get some attractive girl or "Bro" doing research on a subject over Wikipedia (the obsession of Nerds in catalogging their favorite forms of escapism has contributed to the problems) and then acting as a spokesman for "Geek culture" as opposed to a REAL, pasty, obese, acne-covered, behemoth of a geek, it breeds resentment. Being a big, fat dude Jim you have the advantage of being someone who fits the stereotype, by your own admission, you are a member of the club, or at least can pass.
Yes, this is pretty damning towards nerds (arguably my own people, especially now) even as I say it, but it's the truth.
The question of whether an attractive girl could ever truely be a nerd IRL is a subject of debate in of itself. It can be argued that a girl who is conventionally attractive always has the option to be accepted by society as long as she remains attractive, which prevents her from ever truely joining the "nerd herd".
Also don't misunderstand, nerds love their eye candy, booth babes are something a lot of nerds have defended. Just don't try and present the models as being nerd girls. Nerds can accept and appreciate the advertising (even if more aware of it than I think those presenting it would like, which is half the problem, nerds are a paranoid and hyper-aware bunch).
Oh yes, and also Jim, you might not be aware of this, but among Nerd culture when it comes to "Nerd Girls" on the internet who are not tied to a product, there is a sort of game going. When one of these shows up you have the nerds talking to her sort of side-betting privatly on how long it takes for her to try and get something out of them. This is actually sort of what spawned the entire "Tits Or GTFO" meme, since flashing their boobs is one of the things these girls eventually work into their routine in their effort to exploit you. The girl shows her boobs, and she expects something from you even if she's subtle about it, with the implication that you need to make her happy to see them again (or perhaps hints of more), it can be done in differant ways. The meme is kind of a "let's cut through the chase, we know why your here".
You also seem to miss the point that the arguement "they aren't hurting anyone" doesn't apply here, you say you can't understand how this hurts anyone, but if that's the case I can't help but wonder how closely you've listened to the actual complaints.
The rage over the "fake nerd girls" is pretty much about exploitation. The basic idea being that if you have a hot girl promote something, it's going to manipulate men into spending money on that product or service. If you put a hot girl into the equasion on a product aimed at a male demographic famous for not having any luck with girls at all, it's even more effective. That's advertising in a nutshell, and in of itself wouldn't be that big a deal, IF it wasn't being directly tied to the whole "Camwhore" phenomena and other internet honey traps. The idea being that a fairly attractive girl, seperated by the barrier of The Internet, but able to promote herself, can insinuate herself into communities of people starving for female attention, and then parley her attention into gifts and benefits, through generating "hits" for a channel if nothing else. Some of the contreversies over online gift or "wish lists" have also circulated around girls doing this kind of thing using such services to receive their payment.
The anger in this case isn't so much about wanting to keep "fandom" male only, so much as it is that most of the guys getting upset wish that there were attractive women into this stuff, but there are so many fakes that it has become expected.
There is also a little more to the "cred" involved than you, or other critics speaking against this, want to give credit to. A nerd is by definition a social outcast, a pariah, a hermit, who is scorned by society. Someone who by nessecity takes escapism to extremes, and winds up becoming an expert on a lot of this kind of media. A greater-than normal interest in comics, video games, or whatever does NOT make you a nerd or "hardcore" in this context. Your attractive girl by definition can and does fit into society, and that creates a barrier that is hard to overcome, not to mention means that the person is going to lack the focus to become the "real deal" in regards to the media itself. To put things into perspective here if you look at a lot of these "Nerd Girl Responses" people have been trying to get to catch on, like oh "I haven't read every issue of Batman, and neither have you", kind of miss the point that a real nerd who is fiaxated on Batman probably HAS read every issue of Batman, going to extreme lengths to obtain scans if nothing else. What's more it goes further than that, let's say "hot nerd girl" is an expert on Batman and has more than a passing of interest, understand that the REAL nerd is probably also an expert on half a dozen other things to the same degree. This occurs because the Nerd literally has no life in a traditional sense due to beign a Nerd, a pariah, an outcast.
Also I'll point out that men DO get the same kind of responses, with gaming and "geek culture" becoming a bit more popular, there has also been a backlash against "casuals" in general and in paticular against the "Bro" or "Fratboy" involvement in gaming, to the point of that group being mocked even more than the false nerd girls. It's just that you see less desperate nerd boys wanting to white knight some jock.
Basically, if your one of those who can claim to have a life other than gaming or "nerd media", a solid circle of friends you deal with in person (as opposed to other nerds you deal with at a safe distance), and similar things, then your really not a "nerd" in this context. That might not bother the nerds if it wasn't being used for purposes of manipulation, or if you didn't have people demanding and receiving "cred" as nerd-culture experts when they hardly fit the bill.
I guess what I'm saying is that the nerd-cosm is a refuge for the pathetic, now that it's producing something that society is beginning to value, there are attempts to take that without the rest of it. Not to mention is that your typical outcast longs for acceptance on their own terms, when you get some attractive girl or "Bro" doing research on a subject over Wikipedia (the obsession of Nerds in catalogging their favorite forms of escapism has contributed to the problems) and then acting as a spokesman for "Geek culture" as opposed to a REAL, pasty, obese, acne-covered, behemoth of a geek, it breeds resentment. Being a big, fat dude Jim you have the advantage of being someone who fits the stereotype, by your own admission, you are a member of the club, or at least can pass.
Yes, this is pretty damning towards nerds (arguably my own people, especially now) even as I say it, but it's the truth.
The question of whether an attractive girl could ever truely be a nerd IRL is a subject of debate in of itself. It can be argued that a girl who is conventionally attractive always has the option to be accepted by society as long as she remains attractive, which prevents her from ever truely joining the "nerd herd".
Also don't misunderstand, nerds love their eye candy, booth babes are something a lot of nerds have defended. Just don't try and present the models as being nerd girls. Nerds can accept and appreciate the advertising (even if more aware of it than I think those presenting it would like, which is half the problem, nerds are a paranoid and hyper-aware bunch).
Oh yes, and also Jim, you might not be aware of this, but among Nerd culture when it comes to "Nerd Girls" on the internet who are not tied to a product, there is a sort of game going. When one of these shows up you have the nerds talking to her sort of side-betting privatly on how long it takes for her to try and get something out of them. This is actually sort of what spawned the entire "Tits Or GTFO" meme, since flashing their boobs is one of the things these girls eventually work into their routine in their effort to exploit you. The girl shows her boobs, and she expects something from you even if she's subtle about it, with the implication that you need to make her happy to see them again (or perhaps hints of more), it can be done in differant ways. The meme is kind of a "let's cut through the chase, we know why your here".
That's close to what I'm saying.Smilomaniac said:
What I said - originally - was that poseurs exist in nearly every subculture. They always have and they always will. The idea of the "fake nerd girl" is that an girl pretends to be a nerd to get male attention - which for the most part doesn't exist nearly as much as the gamer/geek/or nerd subculture say it does.
You won't catch a Cinephile telling a poseur to fuck off and making some sort of meme out of it. You will probably see them attempt some conversation, they may come off as snobbish, but there's usually enough there for the poseur to genuinely learn about something.
To be honest this issue to me is about as relevant as femi-nazi's. I hear about it all the time on the internet, but I am yet to actually meet anybody who has this attitude in real life.
So to me I just consider it yet another thing blown completely out of proportion.
So to me I just consider it yet another thing blown completely out of proportion.
I'm not gonna go too deep into this as it's not really something I give a lot of thought, but gaming has been a mostly male thing for a while now, and is full of young males full of hormones. This makes them easier for "pretty" girls to exploit, I'm not gonna say they have exploited this because, apart from the "I'm a girl give me stuff" in WoW you hear about I can't really recall any examples I could reference here.ms_sunlight said:
The reason nobody questions dudes if they are proper nerds or not is because in most cases they have nothing to gain by just pretending. Hell, in many cases they might have something to lose due to how 'gamers' and 'nerds' are seen by those who do not fit into those categories.
Girls, on the other hand, can have something to gain from it. I have also seen it happen in my social circles.
My memory is a bit hazy, but in the girls' defense I do think I've seen boys do similar things as well, although not related to gaming so not really all that relevant to this discussion.
For the record; I'm not in the misogynist camp, I'm simply saying I can see where some of them are coming from.
I'm sick of this crap, we like stuff because we like it not to impress guys don't be so self important 
Oh so we are okay to ogle but not actually be one of you? Nice...really nice >_>Therumancer said:
Personally I think us male geeks should be more insulted by the fact that gaming industry seems to content to stereotype us as Horny, Social outcast virgins who would buy something just because a hot girl promises it would help us "score". I'm looking at you axe male grooming products.
I can understand, to a degree, one developing a distaste for "fake gamers" of any gender. As it has been stated, it wasn't long ago that many of us were, at best screwed with, and at worst demonized for our particular hobby, interest, culture, whatever you'd like to call it. Since those days, gaming has gone mainstream & many other facets of geek culture have followed. Now those same people (or demographics of people) are claiming to be a part of our culture, with no real interest or investment in it, because it's trendy. It's reasonable to think that some might feel a bit like the big kids that beat them up when they were little are trying to steal their toys even after they've all grown up.
I have my own grievances with the mainstreaming of geek culture; what was once essentially owned & operated by the intellectual elite is now being over-run with the rest of the world because they have money too. Why produce quality for the hardcore when the lower tiers of society will pay just as much & in greater numbers for the brown-grey mush that is console gaming. We got out-voted & that sucks.
& yes, there are absolutely women out there who will put on a geek-face so they can feel like the center of the universe. There aren't a ton of them, as compared to actual female geeks; they just all flock to conventions because that's a good strategy if you want to get oggled. These women are sad excuses for people, so desperate for attention that they've take up a fake personality just to fit in with a group they scorned 10, 15, 20 years ago. I might go as far as to say they're annoying for taking up space in our gathering places.
That is as far as I'd take it: Annoying
They don't really take away from what we do or what the true geeks have. They barnacles with bleached blonde hair & should be treated no more seriously
I have my own grievances with the mainstreaming of geek culture; what was once essentially owned & operated by the intellectual elite is now being over-run with the rest of the world because they have money too. Why produce quality for the hardcore when the lower tiers of society will pay just as much & in greater numbers for the brown-grey mush that is console gaming. We got out-voted & that sucks.
& yes, there are absolutely women out there who will put on a geek-face so they can feel like the center of the universe. There aren't a ton of them, as compared to actual female geeks; they just all flock to conventions because that's a good strategy if you want to get oggled. These women are sad excuses for people, so desperate for attention that they've take up a fake personality just to fit in with a group they scorned 10, 15, 20 years ago. I might go as far as to say they're annoying for taking up space in our gathering places.
That is as far as I'd take it: Annoying
They don't really take away from what we do or what the true geeks have. They barnacles with bleached blonde hair & should be treated no more seriously