Jimquisition: Free To Wait

[AznaktaX]

So, I'm only a few seconds in, and for a moment I was afraid you totally lost it.

Yeah, its wierd though. If these are so bad (and they are) then why do the dominate the market so badly.

Not quite sure, but I have two guesses.

1. These games have something in them that tries to make you addicted. In some cases, it succeeds.

If you have already used a sum of money in one of these fee to pay games, say f.e. Shakes & Fidget (and yes, I'm a victim), you might eventually realize "Oh, f**k, this game sucks after all. But now, I'm already so far into it, there's no turning back."

In my case, I don't give any more money to Shakes & Fidget, but I have made a few friends in it, I'm already pretty high level, so I still continue to play.

Don't know how long it will last though.

2. The casual market is big right now.

And....no offence, but new gamers these days, regardless of age, seem to be more likely to play a game that basically holds their hand.

Give it to them "for free", and it's easy to bait them in.

It's a huge chance for game companies who want to give us less and less for as much money as possible.


Btw, all you need is a concept that will look interesting to gamers.

The world doesn't have to be ready for it, and it doesn't happen only in mobile gaming.

The Kinect is an example of a non-mobile gaming concept that suckered gamers in, despite many games not functioning properly.

And it doesn't happen only in gaming.

Movies have 3D.

It's an interesting concept that yet causes huge eye strain, and in some cases it's completely unnecessary, the world is obviously not ready for it, yet movie companies keep using it, so they can charge you (I don't remember) double prize for the ticket.

But I digress.

You get my point, I hope.


P.s. Oh, I know what will break Jim.

A f2p Aliens game.

*sees everyone in the forum glaring at him, preparing their Load out guns*

I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding, don't shoot. XD

 

[BakedSardine]

The Homer lip syncing was absolutely brilliant!

Thank god for Jim! (and me)

 

[Sheo_Dagana]

Good... good... let the hate flow through you, Jim!

No, seriously. Let it ride. You're absolutely right and I am always saddened every time I see one of my friends getting tricked into playing one of these 'games.' I had heard of the Simpsons game but didn't know about that Dungeon creator one.

Bravely Default actually has a mode exactly like that, except that instead of currency, you collect street passes to get more workers. So it's either social interaction or wait it out. I guess I'll be leaving my 3DS on all the time now...

 

[shteev]

*Are* there loads of free to play games worth playing, Jim?

I ask genuinely because I can't find any. I'd love to play some.

 

[Flatfrog]

I think I've worked out what the dividing line is on these Free to Wait games and I think it's that microtransactions should never be for consumables. I don't mind paying money for something that makes the game run faster *for ever*. What makes thinks like DK despicable is that they make you pay a fairly considerable amount just to get past *this bit* - and then it's done. And then you have to wait some more. That's what makes it feel like being held to ransom. But a game where I can pay to make it *better* seems perfectly fair. Paid upgrades - good. Paid consumables - bad.

Obviously for multiplayer games that's still a problem because Pay to Win is pretty despicable too, so for multiplayer there's an additional stricture that you should only be asked to pay for things that have a purely aesthetic effect - costumes, decorations etc - or that are shared between all players - new level maps, weapon drops etc.

 

[Sanunes]

Even though EA made this piece of garbage of a "game" I can't see it being any worse then Square Enix with their Final Fantasy price gouge or the over inflated price of their "remakes" of classic Final Fantasy games or any of the people that just make these games to treat people like a walking wallet. Personally I have never found any of the "games" that require me to wait or pay money to go faster to attract my interest at all, there might be good versions, but like anything in life people will exploit it.

 

[deathbydeath]

I agree this video is more of a rant but it's deserved in this case. Jim has often mentioned good free to play models that work - like Loadout in this video! It's not that F2P is a bad model it's just that it's being abused. Part of his/our anger, which was mentioned towards the end of the video, is that F2P can be a great model but is being completely abused by people like EA.

No, he isn't hating on free-to-play games, he's hating on free-to-play games with time delays/free-to-wait games. Loadout is not a free-to-wait game, it's ftp with inoffensive microtransaction options. I have seen two types of successful ftw games (the aforementioned Fallen London and Eliminate Pro), and I peruse those kinds of markets far less than the "casual" gamer, let alone someone like Jim Sterling.

Laying out these sorts of blanket condemnations despite evidence to the contrary is simply bad practice, especially for someone with a voice as loud and as heard as Jim's is. I don't doubt that the examples he used in the video are deserving of the verbal thrashing they've been given, but merely saying something is wrong is useless unless you provide ways to do it right.

 

[GAunderrated]

I love this video jim and I am very glad you had the balls to call out the developers on being apart of this shit. I don't like the fact that people are willing to give developers a pass because the big bad EA and other publishers are "forcing" them to exploit customers. I always felt that as a cop out excuse and pathetic.

I have spent over $100 on Dota2 cosmetic items and I don't feel like I was ripped off at all. I've played over 800 hours of fun on that game and every purchase I made was completely optional. Where I did try Simpsons tapped out due to a gf who enjoyed it and I couldn't play it for longer than 20 minutes without requiring a purchase to continue the "gameplay". I never spent a dime on that game and pity those who lack the willpower or foresight to not waste money on a reverse ATM.

It's all the allure of a slot machine without the promise of a small chance of return.

 

[kajinking]

Warframe to me is just the best F2P model I've ever seen. I downloaded that game on a whim since it looked decent back in July and figured I'd play it a while, get bored, and go off to something else like I always do. 6 Months and 306 hours of gameplay later I've gladly paid around $30 for some cosmetic stuff but the fact of the matter is that I could have not spent a single cent and still had all that entertainment for FREE.

95% of Warframe's store stuff can be earned in game if you wait long enough meaning you end up paying for convience like you're supposed to in these type of deals. I want a new helmet? My options are pay for it, or wait till the RNG throws it up for free to be earned in-game. Plus they even make getting the premium currency (platinum) stupidly easy to get by by offering random coupons as log in rewards (going as high as 75% off for 24 hours).

This is how you do F2P, use great gameplay to lure people in then let them make the choice of what they WANT to spend without making them feel like they HAVE to.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

*Are* there loads of free to play games worth playing, Jim?

I ask genuinely because I can't find any. I'd love to play some.

League of Legends and DOTA 2 have reasonable Free to pay setups.

Tribes Ascend and Team Fortress 2 also do it well. I think there's also Path of Exile and Warframe...But I haven't played path of Exile yet, and I haven't touched warframe in months...

So yeah, good free to play DOES exist. It's just becoming more and more rare as everyone and their CEO jumps on the bandwagon and tries to ride it full speed off a cliff.

If you're looking for good "free-to-wait" games...The only one I know of that's good is Fallen London.

 

[Lunar Templar]

That 'addressing the devs making these 'games'' bit...

That was a thing of beauty Jim, it's been to long since we've seen such righteous fury and these fools deserve to be bent of a rail like that.

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

Jim, for once we completely agree. Mobile games are the "populist" option now - for many people who wouldn't otherwise play videogames - and it's just disgusting that they're exposed to this when they first get into them. It just sickens me that some people will be so short-sighted in their outlook that that they'd bring down the credibility of themselves and the business that they're in for a quick payday.

What I really want to say, though, is th

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[Megacherv]

I can't say I agree with that last sentiment. Developers work at a studio doing what they're told. It's a job, they're people living in a society that requires money to survive, so they'll carry on doing what they're told. They won't necessarily like it, but if they don't do it the higher-ups that make these awful decisions will stop paying them, and then those developers won't be able to support themselves or their families. Please don't shout at the developers for this.

 

[whycantijustdeletemyaccount]

.

 

[Lvl 64 Klutz]

I hope this game model dies a quick death; Who would support something like this?

It can be done well."Triple Town" on IOS was essentially it's demo. You start with a certain number of moves. When you run out you can wait for some moves to regen or pay a dollar for more moves than you start off with or pay $5 for infinite moves and 3 other maps. It's developers like Ea and Activision who take advantage of it then other talentless studios rush to copy them. I can guarantee Glu,chillingo, or gameloft are this second making a free to wait flappy bird clone, and it sickens me.

I was going to post something like this, but then I realized that Jim's point still holds water. Yes, some games offer expedited waiting for really cheap, and others with a stamina system let you play for 90 minutes+ and recharges stamina at a decent rate, but the fact still remains the games are using a hostile system for getting the player to spend money. His argument is that a good Free to Play model uses incentives to reward players for supporting the developer rather than punishing players that don't.

 

[Living_Brain]

There's a bigger problem than the developers: The c***s that eat this shit up, throwing their money at these corporations and f***ing liking it that way.

 

[ObsidianJones_v1legacy]

I can't say I agree with that last sentiment. Developers work at a studio doing what they're told. It's a job, they're people living in a society that requires money to survive, so they'll carry on doing what they're told. They won't necessarily like it, but if they don't do it the higher-ups that make these awful decisions will stop paying them, and then those developers won't be able to support themselves or their families. Please don't shout at the developers for this.

I'm sorry to pick you out, but you touch on a point in a way that I'm curious about. I can understand your opinion. it's one shared by a lot of people even on this very site. But this side issue that has popped in my head after reading your post made me curious about something that you didn't even touch upon, but I still want to ask the question to the Escapist because of it.

I wonder why we offer such leniency to Developers who produce game tripe just because they are told, but we as gamers as a large majority have nothing but vitriol and disdain for Game reviewers who need to eat just as bad as these developers? They were told by their upper ups to give a ten out or ten for an average game because that game paid to be plastered all over their gaming site. At large, we jump on that reviewer for not having the credibility to possibly lose his job and go hungry.

It's not like his or her company will say '... we support you for sticking by your moral constraints. We're going to get sued, but we're going to back you a hundred percent for having the balls that we didn't have when we accepted the money'. No. He or she will be fired. And probably won't be able to find another job for a while because even though people want good writers, they want people to follow the rules of the company.

And lest we forget, The game pr team didn't go to the reviewer, they went to the company. They gave that reviewing company the money and said give us a good review. But we give the reviewer equal amount if not more hate as we give the reviewing site as a whole. Why is that, Escapist?

 

[Johnson McGee]

I'm surprised there was no mention of the "5-star rating or else we pester you" or the "only way to unsubscribe is in grey-on-black german text" crap with Dungeon Keeper as well.

 

[shteev]

*Are* there loads of free to play games worth playing, Jim?

I ask genuinely because I can't find any. I'd love to play some.

Are you kidding man? They are every where. Just looking at my desktop icons I've got League of Legends, Blacklight Retribution, Warframe, Path of Exile

Ok, right, sorry, I was lost in my own little bubble there for a second. There are indeed good free to play PC games. I haven't found a good mobile one since Triple Town tho.

 

[GAunderrated]

I can't say I agree with that last sentiment. Developers work at a studio doing what they're told. It's a job, they're people living in a society that requires money to survive, so they'll carry on doing what they're told. They won't necessarily like it, but if they don't do it the higher-ups that make these awful decisions will stop paying them, and then those developers won't be able to support themselves or their families. Please don't shout at the developers for this.

I completely disagree. There is always another option. Those developers choose to make this product fully knowing what kind of company EA is and what type of game they are making. People need to be held responsible for their actions, stop blaming it on "society", "corporations", or the "government" forcing them to work these jobs.

They have every right to sell out their ethics and integrity to support their families, but that does not mean they are somehow immune to being called out for it.