Jimquisition: Fun & Priorities

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Agayek

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Oct 23, 2008
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Jimothy Sterling said:
Fun & Priorities

Grand Theft Auto V is designed to be fun, says Rockstar. Sounds like a no-brainer, but that little bit of PR buzztalk says a lot more than you may think.

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So I can't stop myself from asking any longer:

What is it with the shrimp you put in every video? I can't make any kind of sense out of it, save that, from the audio context, it's some kind of "THIS SHIT IS BAD" visual flag. Is there anything more to it, or did you just decide one day that prawns were evil and would be used to represent evil forevermore?
 

1337mokro

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Dec 24, 2008
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Really Jim? You didn't share the Gospel of Jim with that poor misguided woman? You are just going to let her worship the false shepherd?

I joke but seriously the use of the word fun is of no significance at all. This is basically a PR guy sitting in the back crunching numbers saying "Streamlined" doesn't fair well with audiences. We would do better to replace the word with fun, that has tested much better.

It is not uncommon for PR people to literally mandate the disuse or the use of a word simply because of the effect it will have. It seems Jim bit the bait hook line and sinker and made an entire episode praising the PR guy's smart move playing straight into his hand.

Fun is just another word for streamlined until the final product gets released and we can see for ourselves.
 

MCerberus

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Jun 26, 2013
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Magog1 said:
I guess Illinois is filled with dumb people like me.
Having a different subjective judgement than others is fine, but this is nerd culture so you're going to get a lot of people ready to counter with in-depth descriptions of why something didn't work for them. GTA4, for example was relatively humorless, slow, controlled really wonky for its time, and is forever compared to Saints Row Two. SR2 had a lot of pot humor, wacky side-missions, and was still grounded in drama (the Brotherhood in particular was a sickening escalation of revenge).

But no, you're not dumb for liking anything, unless it's drinking bleach.
edit- or Dominos pizza. seriously.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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Agayek said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Fun & Priorities

Grand Theft Auto V is designed to be fun, says Rockstar. Sounds like a no-brainer, but that little bit of PR buzztalk says a lot more than you may think.

Watch Video
So I can't stop myself from asking any longer:

What is it with the shrimp you put in every video? I can't make any kind of sense out of it, save that, from the audio context, it's some kind of "THIS SHIT IS BAD" visual flag. Is there anything more to it, or did you just decide one day that prawns were evil and would be used to represent evil forevermore?
The what in my videos?
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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karma9308 said:
canadamus_prime said:
All of this should be fairly obvious. ...unless you're an accountant I guess.
I've got an accounting degree, and this is obvious to me. Though I'm fine with being the exception tp the rule.

Was the story in the intro true Jim?
Well maybe just brain dead corporate executives then.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

Alleged Feather-Rustler
Jun 5, 2013
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My problem is that Rockstar is know for making games that are...how shall I put it? Not fun? Maybe that's too obvious...

Point is, I don't for a second trust Rockstar's saying 'No trust us, online play will make the game fun!" is any different that "No trust us, Dead Space 3 will appeal to a wider audience." As far as i can tell, every bad choice made in AAA gaming, Rockstar is also making. The only difference is Rockstar has as gall to call them 'fun', where as EA is a least honest that they just want more money. It sounds like Rockstar knows its game wont sell well, that its already failed to appeal to a larger audience and it now covering its ass so when sales are dismal, they can say "Oh, I guess people don't like fun. Did we establish that? Our games are fun!"
Its all very corporate and transparent. Jim usually would call them out, saying 'Who cares if YOU think your game looks fun? Prove to us, the gamers, that its fun! Prove to US that adding online play is fun rather than just telling us this is what fun looks like and if we don't buy it, well I guess we don't like fun."
 

Xariat

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Jan 30, 2011
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T3hSource said:
I thought that you were going to talk about using 'fun' as an excuse for games. If games are looked at as art, they don't necessarily need to be fun, they just need to be engaging.

EDIT: No I'm not against fun games, my point is about using 'fun' as an excuse, or vice versa. Fun is subjective after all.
this is kinda what you sound like

[http://imgur.com/xel4PUq]

Yes fun might be subjective, but so is everything else in a game. Calling "fun" an excuse would be silly because fun things are fun.

of course is the things marketed as fun isn't fun at all then that's a whole other issue.
 

PunkRex

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Feb 19, 2010
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AC10 said:
I really didn't find GTA4 to be any fun though x_x.
Because it doesn't appeal to you, see, see what I did, DID YOU ALL SEE WHAT I DID!? I'm so smart...
 

Jman1236

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Jul 29, 2008
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Going from GTA:SA to GTA 4 was, what I felt at least, a step backwards. Now with three main characters, a large open world that is open at the start, and new side activities and ways to spend money other than to buy guns, this is starting to look like a major evolution for the series.
 

Bruce

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Jun 15, 2013
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TheMemoman said:
Jim, since you mention The Lone Ranger for what it clearly is, have you seen the other end of the spectrum: Pacific Rim?

Grown Ups 2 it's overtaking it at the box office by the same average moviegoer that seems to hate Pacific Rim, clearly because... I don't have a fucking clue. I gave up trying to understand mankind a long time ago, I just watch you show for Halloween costume ideas, really.
I figure it has fallen victim to Michael Bay's Transformers movies. Those movies were all successful, and varying degrees of unpleasant. That is the trouble with soulless cash-ins that work, they tend to ruin the market for the very things they are cashing in on.
 

Teoes

Poof, poof, sparkles!
Jun 1, 2010
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That's funny - I was watching the GTA5 video thinking "Ooh, that looks fun. And that. That looks fun too. I am now interested in this game." THAT'S why! They put the surbliminers in my advertising - I've been had! Damned Rockstar.

I was also confused by the intro story, in that I thought the direction it was going to take was that Jim would open the door and the lady would go "Oh my God! I mean Oh my Jim!" and then give him all the monies she'd previously been collecting. After all, if you're collecting for your church you're collecting for Jim.
 

Arppis

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May 28, 2011
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Let's hope the controls are WAY better than what we usualy see from Rockstar. So it could be more "fun".
 

Johnson McGee

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Nov 16, 2009
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The Dead Space 3 Microtransactions are one of the best examples of bad game design motivated by cash-flow. If part of a game is so tedious or boring that people want to pay to skip it, why include it at all?

With GTA 5 I hope one of the fun changes is bringing back Vice City's cartoonish car physics. In GTA I want to peel around corners while mashing the accelerator and bouncing off curbs into the stratosphere. If I wanted realistic driving I'd buy Forza or something.
 

Nazulu

They will not take our Fluids
Jun 5, 2008
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Seems like a slow week for news, but good point anyway. Though I don't think anyone was actually thinking of the right words to describe what their focus is, just an average explanation to get through it all like someone who's sick of life. The game play vids are the only thing that carries any weight, and GTA5 looked alright.
 

crimson sickle2

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Sep 30, 2009
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The video during the uncanny valley segment now makes me wish there was a horror video game that capitalizes on the effect. That thing (sitting on the chair) was scary.
 

TWEWER

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Feb 8, 2009
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People of the Internet, you are allowed to say no to charities. You're only wasting your time and the charity's representative by trying to make a BS excuse to get out of it.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Aug 3, 2011
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Jim, shut the door in their face. If they cant take a polite hint then fuck em. :) GTA4 sucked....mainly the driving. GTA5 looks awesome. But then the world in GTA:SA was great, but the wilderness sucked. You had missions where you drive for 10 minutes to get to the mission area.....and then you failed the mission. Back to the driving. Sucked so much.

Back to the point. Companies make games to make money. A AAA title is for the maximum buyers....its meant to be for every body. Other games have less budget, can be awesome and thus dont need as much sales. Its the same as movies. Why does WWZ need $250 to make a zombie movie when other directors have made awesome movies for a lot less. Day of the Dead is better than WWZ (the movie, not the book) and yet they are now remaking that as well.

Business is what it is. Niche stuff doesnt sell. Books, games, movies, music or whatever. Well, it sells, but then budget comes into account. An budget is the problem.
 

GamemasterAnthony

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Dec 5, 2010
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I have a question: At what point on this failed planet did the gaming industry no longer take fun into consideration when making their games?

Jim definitely nailed it on the head with this one. Perhaps Microsoft should also take notes because something like this could also be used as an arguement against DRM in a way. After all...how bloody fun is it when game companies PREVENT you from having fun with a game in order to protect their IP?
 

Neverhoodian

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Apr 2, 2008
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Well said, Jim.

Gotta say, I loved your choice of Rocko's Modern Life as an example of a legitimate attempt to entertain people. Such an awesome show.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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To be honest Jim I don't think this installment was cynical enough. :)

From my long experience with video games and watching the industry it seems to me that "fun" is tossed around when a game developer can't think of any other way to justify something they are doing. "We did it this way because we think it's more fun" oftentimes comes about as a way of trying to justify why they couldn't produce the innovations that were promised.

To use an example, look back at the old MMO "Age Of Conan" (which is still running) it made a number of lofty promises, most of which were achievable within then-current technology, but delivered on very few of them. Some of their promises like having formation-based PVP fighting, a system in which instead of running around and trying to circle strafe each other as a DPS lonewolf or semi-invulnerable self healer, you would have to get into position with other players and actually coordinate like an actual military action in order to succeed. The idea was to even have specialized characters like pikemen who were going to specialize in formation based PVP combat. Needless to say Funcom dropped this idea which a lot of people were looking for, and actually pretty late in the dev process after it had been hyped seriously, their justification was "it wasn't fun" and instead they pretty much delivered the same kind of MMORPG PVP experience that everyone else had with things at best being loosely coordinated pre-made teams of lone wolves, as opposed to everyone having to form up and coordinate in formations, or mages combine powers in rituals to achieve bigger effects and so on. At the end of the day "fun" was used as an excuse for "we just really can't deliver this". To some extent you also see this in their "The Secret World" product where their much lauded totally free-form "play anything you want" character system is actually highly regimented as only very specific things tend to work together, you have to unlock powers in a specific order, and your given a pretty tight limit on how many abilities you can have active at one time. All of which makes sense from a game design perspective, but at the same time isn't what they promised, and again was justified as being in the name of "fun".

To bring this around to the example put forth in "The Jimquisition", it seems to me that "Grand Theft Auto V" is largely using "fun" as a justification for not having innovated much and having pretty much stole wholesale from other games. That's in of itself not a bad thing, I agree that innovation for the sake of innovation generally doesn't work out. However in the clips I've seen of "Grand Theft Auto V" I see a lot of cover based shooting, with "blind firing" options present in some other games, combined with things like underwater swimming (which a lot of games have), and base jumping with parachutes and such which is something that was mastered to an extreme degree in titles like "Just Cause 2". To be fair all of these things can be great fun, but when I see a company parroting "fun, fun, fun" while pretty much trotting out a checklist of things you'd more or less expect nowadays, it makes me quite cynical, it seems "we did it because it's fun" is the claim because really they couldn't find any other way to justify it. It would be like "Call of Duty" using "fun" as a justification for it's painful stagnation, along with all the other "follow the leader" shooters trying to pretend they are "Call Of Duty".

Speaking entirely for myself, I haven't been all that impressed by the new "Grand Theft Auto", sure it's the prettiest one in the series, but it seems pretty derivative to me. Nothing there really impresses me the way CJ rocketing around with a jet pack did in "San Andreas", largely because that was pretty new and fresh at the time, you toss a Jet Pack in now it's nothing special because well... we've already seen that, and it's actually a step backwards to not have crap like that which people have been trying to drill into Rockstar's head for a while now. I guess it doesn't have to be innovative to be good, but at the same time I look at it and can't help but wonder what is supposed to make this one stand out from other sandbox mission & mayhem games other than the high quality of the graphics (which you expect, due to it being the latest one out).