Jimquisition: How To Sell Games Without Being A Lying Dick

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
How To Sell Games Without Being A Lying Dick

E3 was full of lies and conjecture, and that was stupid. At least one company was doing it right.
Also, Bug Princess.


Watch Video
 

Fappy

\[T]/
May 1, 2020
12,010
0
0
Country
United States
The more I see of it, the more I want Hyrule Warriors. I really hope Lu Bu turns out being a secret character or something XD
 

synobal

New member
Jun 8, 2011
2,189
0
0
Sadly Jim the guys with the advertising and PR degrees will not agree with you. As long as you pour money into advertising you'll be fine regardless of how much you lied.
 

Big_Isaac

New member
May 24, 2012
26
0
0
synobal said:
Sadly Jim the guys with the advertising and PR degrees will not agree with you. As long as you pour money into advertising you'll be fine regardless of how much you lied.
And the more money you pour into th advertising, the more you have to lie in order to increase the hype
 

Guffe

New member
Jul 12, 2009
5,106
0
0
Has to be one of the best starts of a video on this site in this episode xD
Guessing something 6 months before it happens = God/Profet :D
I guess I agree with most stuff in this video, but what synobal sais is also true. Good trailers and gameplay videos will sell your games. But I think many more are thinking the same way as Jim after this E3, after we had two very opposite ways to show of games and the majority seems to be (according to what I've read and heard) that the Nintendo way was the better this year.
 

shadowmagus

New member
Feb 2, 2011
435
0
0
But we can't like the WiiU, because samey gimmicks and bad graphics!

PC/WiiU Master race, reporting.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
I was bored by the E3 this year. Nintendo was the one company that showed interesting stuff, the rest was boring ass crap seen hundreds of times before.

Well, how long will it take for the usual suspects to come and defend the poor, afraid companies against the bad 'SJW' and their unfair attacks and treatment...
 

demented

New member
Oct 15, 2012
11
0
0
I have gotten so sick and tired of the Triple A industry. The greed, the homogenization of games, the lack of respect for customers and the outright lies. A while ago I began worrying that I had outgrow games. Then I realized that no, what I've outgrown is the bullshit of companies like Ubisoft and EA.

For me the next generation consists of a 3DS and a PC.

Also, loved the over the top ending in your video. I wish I could come just by thinking about myself.
 

lukesparow

New member
Jan 20, 2014
63
0
0
Sadly the gaming industry is run by a bunch of pathetic children.
It's about time for another crash.
 

Demonchaser27

New member
Mar 20, 2014
197
0
0
Good video Jim. My friends/brother and I have consistently been saying this kind of stuff for a few years now, at least. So I definitely agree with you on this. There may be ridiculously forgiving people out there, but I'm not on of them and neither are my friends. The Watch Dogs, Dark Souls 2, and other hype machines of late have basically destroyed any hope we have for the future iterations of said series. And that's unfortunately the price these publishers and developers pay for lying and manipulating footage or for allowing it to happen. Kudos to Nintendo for what they did at E3 this year. Maybe everyone else can get off their high horses and treat customers like respectable human beings from now on.
 

Imre Csete

Original Character, Do Not Steal
Jul 8, 2010
785
0
0
lukesparow said:
Sadly the gaming industry is run by a bunch of pathetic children.
It's about time for another crash.
Yeah, Nintendo is churning out decades old IPs on their current console as usual and everyone hails them as heroes, just because the other contenders are soulless idiots.

There are no winners here.
 

themilo504

New member
May 9, 2010
731
0
0
You have a new intro? THIS SHOW HAS BEEN RUINED FOREVER(I?m joking and I actually like the new intro).

The reason why companies lie is because they want you to pre order their games, and they don?t care about potential negative consequences later, or they expect you to keep buying their products no matter what they do.
 

Evonisia

Your sinner, in secret
Jun 24, 2013
3,258
0
0
The new intro/outro, it's wonderful!

Nintendo may be a relic of the past, but we also get the benefit of actually seeing gameplay as a result. That's a good deal, in my opinion. They put Bayonetta in Link's outfit, I'm pretty sure that's worthy of a hundred E3 awards right there!
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
The problem is they announce games too early and have been doing for years. It's part of the "Oh my god our £500 console has no games for it! Quick we need to get some announcements together!" panic cycle. The reason many of these games have no footage is because they don't exist in any sort of playable form yet. Much of the effort in making these games goes TOWARDS making the demos and promos.

The few devs who feel able to speak out have been saying for years how much time, effort and developer resources go into making these stage demo pieces and thet is they are not entirely CGI they are made from the ground up for a show because the base game is still pre-alpha (like actually, properly pre-alpha) and still has blank texture stand-ins and quake sounds. Many of these games we won't see until 2016, delays seem to be part of the landscape now and the cynic in me would say they put up release dates they know they won't hit because there is little consequence for delay and to make it look like there are more games in the near future than there actually are.

It's like watch_doge. The game had a complete looking 'gameplay' trailer more than two years before it was actually finished (or unfinished if you have the PC version) and ended up being many years, and a downgrade later, down the pipeline.
 

sXeth

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
2,604
98
53
Lest I be taken as a contrarian, I'll start by stating I agree with this episode entirely.

But I'm curious as to what the take on the supposedly "in engine" obviously scripted and edited (cause ya know, that slow-mo complete camera shift is blatantly obviously not an ingame thing and I don't know how anyones expected to believe it is) Zelda Wii-U thing is.

I'm also still incredibly amused that Sony had the gameplay demo of Far Cry 4 (scripted out as it may be) while Ubisoft only had the cinematic. They made a gameplay demo... but wouldn't show it themselves.
 

tm96

New member
Feb 1, 2014
200
0
0
I think there was a lesson to all of the industry don't lie. Any more predictions wise prophet Sterling?
 

lukesparow

New member
Jan 20, 2014
63
0
0
Imre Csete said:
lukesparow said:
Sadly the gaming industry is run by a bunch of pathetic children.
It's about time for another crash.
Yeah, Nintendo is churning out decades old IPs on their current console as usual and everyone hails them as heroes, just because the other contenders are soulless idiots.

There are no winners here.
While it is true a lot of what they showed were old franchises, I don't think it's fair to chain them up for it.
Most of the games they showed actually did some really original things with those franchises, essentially almost making them a new IP.
Take the new Zelda for example. Having it set in a fully open world is extremely fresh for the series.

They also showed some genuinely new IP's.
But yea, it was mostly their charm, contrasted with the soullessness of their contenders that made them "win" E3.
 

DrOswald

New member
Apr 22, 2011
1,443
0
0
Seth Carter said:
Lest I be taken as a contrarian, I'll start by stating I agree with this episode entirely.

But I'm curious as to what the take on the supposedly "in engine" obviously scripted and edited (cause ya know, that slow-mo complete camera shift is blatantly obviously not an ingame thing and I don't know how anyones expected to believe it is) Zelda Wii-U thing is.
Nintendo made it absolutely clear what that was: A 20 second preview of what a Zelda Wii U cutscene may look like. They never claimed that this is what the gameplay would look like, and rightly so - I clearly won't look like that. That would be a bad game.

I, personally, think that is just fine. Cutscenes are an important part of many games and it makes sense that the first teaser trailer would be a mini cutscene as the development is not far enough along to actually show gameplay indicative of the actual game. We will see gameplay of Zelda Wii U before it's release. This is just a sort of confirmation for the fans of how far along the project is.

Where this can become a problem is when game companies try to pass off in engine cutscenes as indicative of gameplay in the sort of shady way Colonial Marines did.
 

Thanatos2k

New member
Aug 12, 2013
820
0
0
I'm looking forward to the reviews when Hyrule Warriors come out. Reviewers have savagely bashed Dynasty Warriors for years, so will simply wrapping a guaranteed high review score franchise around it expose them for hypocrites? Or will they slap their 6s and 7/10s on it and be assaulted by the swarm of rabid fanboys?

Either way, I will enjoy the show.
 

templar1138a

New member
Dec 1, 2010
894
0
0
Like the new intro slates.

Yeah, I stopped caring about E3 after the debacles, but after hearing about this year, my respect for Nintendo has grown. Hell, they've always maintained at least SOME respect with me. Recently I took a sledgehammer to my Xbox 360 because it was defunct AGAIN after having already been sent it in for "repairs" three times (the first two were in a row, actually), and I didn't feel that what few games for it I have that I don't already have the PC version for were worth sending it in again. I'll hold on to my Rock Band games and peripherals in the HOPE that Microsoft learns a lesson from the Xbone and builds backwards compatibility into their next console (though I doubt it, and even if they do, it probably won't be as far back as the 360).

The point is that my Gamecube, which I bought back in 2001, still works today. And I've never had to send it in for repairs (aside from getting replacement controllers from Gamestop because I wore the old ones out). Clearly, Nintendo didn't have the bad ethic of designing its consoles to break down by the time the next one came out. This makes me very happy because I have the Gamecube versions of my four favorite Zelda games. If Hyrule Warriors and the new Zelda game itself actually seem like something I want to play, then I'll consider getting a Wii U. As it is, it's looking like the massive numbers of enemies in Hyrule Warriors just walk around waiting to get mowed down, and I'm worried that the attempts at open-worlding the new Zelda will make it not FEEL like a Zelda game. Still, fingers crossed.
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
14,334
0
0
Yeah, I'm actually excited for Hyrule Warriors and I never get excited for games anymore. That should tell you something. I don't understand why these companies feel the need to outright lie in the press conferences and with their promo material. It ultimately hurts them in the end. Well it would except people don't stop buying their games, so they're probably not going to stop doing it. Meh.
 
Jan 27, 2011
3,741
0
0
Thanatos2k said:
I'm looking forward to the reviews when Hyrule Warriors come out. Reviewers have savagely bashed Dynasty Warriors for years, so will simply wrapping a guaranteed high review score franchise around it expose them for hypocrites? Or will they slap their 6s and 7/10s on it and be assaulted by the swarm of rabid fanboys?

Either way, I will enjoy the show.
Me too. :p Proof that major game reviewers are full of shit? Or proof that gamers take review scores way too seriously? Either way, it'll be a fireworks display for the ages.

*starts making popcorn*


---
ON TOPIC:

YES YES A HUNDRED TIMES YES. The reason so many of us likes old Ninty's E3 show was the flood of gameplay they showed. Not only were those gameplay trailers, but they STREAMED live play of them playing the games. If it possible for them to downgrade things before release? Yeah. But I don't think they're that stupid.

---
demented said:
For me the next generation consists of a 3DS and a PC.
It's working out pretty well for me so far. Although after E3, I think I'm going to need a WiiU sometime soon. I want to play Splatoon and Hyrule warriors pretty hardcore now. XD
 

Racecarlock

New member
Jul 10, 2010
2,497
0
0
Jimothy Sterling said:
How To Sell Games Without Being A Lying Dick

E3 was full of lies and conjecture, and that was stupid. At least one company was doing it right.
Also, Bug Princess.


Watch Video
All very fine points jim, but do you really think the industry gives a fuck? Once they make their money, they care nothing about any of their customers after that point. They don't care. Because as long as the marketing is good enough and they make their money, they refuse to give two shits about anything after that.

The industry is not run by gamers. It's run by businessmen and marketers, both of which don't play games. We might be their source of income, but they know the marketing tricks now. Even if we're here, most people don't know about us. So they'll buy anything with good enough marketing. This is business, where profit is worshipped above all else.

This is why there's probably going to be another crash.
 

Thanatos2k

New member
Aug 12, 2013
820
0
0
synobal said:
Sadly Jim the guys with the advertising and PR degrees will not agree with you. As long as you pour money into advertising you'll be fine regardless of how much you lied.
While simultaneously complaining about how developer costs are spiraling out of control as you dump as much money into advertising as you paid to code it.
 

Flatfrog

New member
Dec 29, 2010
885
0
0
Great video as ever, but I have to don my semantic grammar Nazi hat to point out a pet hate:

"Why should we pre-order, let alone buy at launch?" makes no sense. The "let alone" portion of that sentence needs to be the *less likely* option: "why should we buy at launch, let alone pre-order?", or "why should we pre-order, or even buy at launch?".

Sorry about that :)
 

veloper

New member
Jan 20, 2009
4,597
0
0
All we, as gamers, need to stop doing, is keep falling for the same old tricks. False advertisement isn't going away until that happens.

The problem with that is that gamers become savvy and jaded only with age and experience, while new blood is both a given and a necessity for this popular hobby of ours.
 

KazeAizen

New member
Jul 17, 2013
1,129
0
0
demented said:
I have gotten so sick and tired of the Triple A industry. The greed, the homogenization of games, the lack of respect for customers and the outright lies. A while ago I began worrying that I had outgrow games. Then I realized that no, what I've outgrown is the bullshit of companies like Ubisoft and EA.

For me the next generation consists of a 3DS and a PC.

Also, loved the over the top ending in your video. I wish I could come just by thinking about myself.
If you have the money why not add a Wii U to that list as well? They seem to be the ones getting the most interesting software over the next 2 years.
 

gamegod25

New member
Jul 10, 2008
863
0
0
synobal said:
Sadly Jim the guys with the advertising and PR degrees will not agree with you. As long as you pour money into advertising you'll be fine regardless of how much you lied.
That certainly seems to be the mindset, so long as they get people to buy the game what happens after that is irrelevant even if treating your customers like shit will only lead to trouble further down the line. It's a sad mindset of humanity in general, grab all you can today no matter the future cost.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
I really did find myself thinking, "well, wait. Would I be bothered by Watch Dogs' visuals if Ubisoft hadn't lied?"

And the answer is "probably not."

Pizza is a decent meal, but you might be disappointed if you got it when you had (pre-)ordered fillet mignon.

The other problem is, as Racecarlock puts it:

Racecarlock said:
Once they make their money, they care nothing about any of their customers after that point. They don't care. Because as long as the marketing is good enough and they make their money, they refuse to give two shits about anything after that.
I mean, what should be the teachable moment from Watch Dogs and what is the teachable moment are completely different. This should have been a moment where we taught them a lesson about how they can't get away with lying to us, but instead, we taught them that they can lie to us, be exposed, spark massive outrage, and still be a million-selling game. Watch Dogs is a dominant media force. What's to stop Gearbox from learning the message that maybe they should lie more or lie bigger next time?

For all the protests, we'll buy the games. Maybe not me specifically, or you specifically, but we as a whole.

And every year, people protest the hype of E3. Each year, the complaints get louder, but EA and Ubisoft and Activision get all the more bombastic. And despite those protests, each year we see these games sell phenomenally well. I can't believe that they will listen until there's a reason to. And we're not giving them cause to do anything but lie more. If you're outraged, but still buying the game, the latter part is all they see.

Fappy said:
The more I see of it, the more I want Hyrule Warriors. I really hope Lu Bu turns out being a secret character or something XD
Probably the best you can hope for is a cameo (a la Samurai Warriors)

I'm kind of hoping we see Zelda characters show up in a future Warriors Orochi game.
 

KazeAizen

New member
Jul 17, 2013
1,129
0
0
Caramel Frappe said:
Yeah, I have to say ... E3 was almost a let down if it wasn't for Nintendo's amazing display of games and bringing us the good stuff.
On Microsoft's and Sony's end- it was almost all trailer like or scripted gameplay. It bored me. To make matters worse, it was all about survival with a military shooter gig thrown in there.

.. Stop it guys. I'm not even sure if this is because of how successful Call of Duty has been, or if you see we need more scruffy white protagonist males running around with big guns- but can't we get more than that? Nintendo who wasn't in the best position with money due to lack of sales on the WiiU and stuff- has stolen E3 and convinced me to perhaps buy one. That's how powerful and well presented their conference was. They didn't hide around the bush with their gameplay and felt honesty was the way to go.

And it was. Plus the Robot Chicken screentime was genius along with their 'getting to the point' speeches worked very well in their favor. You could say that they saved E3 from being a huge let down.
Also if their Amiibos take off with the kids like Disney Infinity or Skylanders has they will probably be printing money again before you know it. Hell with the opening to their conference I almost didn't care if they showed new software because having Reggie fighting Iwata Super Smash style with a doll up of Jojo's bizarre Adventure thrown in was so inherently awesome and goofy it would've made E3 worth it just to see that.
 

carnex

New member
Jan 9, 2008
828
0
0
Ufff. You are, for once nicely and to the point idealistic. It would be awesome to have games represented from the get go as they are. I would love that. However...

Let me premise this with stating that I despise marketing as it stands today and that I do not agree with their actions. But at the same time I must admit that they know what they are doing and that their tactics work.

Simply said honesty doesn't sell, or more truthfully, honesty does not sell as well as deception and confusion. Yes, it would be great if we had, from the start, only true gameplay videos (even if that idea is stupid for variety of reasons including that game does not get final polish until late in development cycle) but job of marketing is not to tell us the truth. It's job is to sell us things. And hype and elation does that better than truth. When commercial ends and we go on with our lives content more or less goes forgotten and what is left is tone and feeling it provoked and that is what lures people into purchasing product (except for borderline fanatical hobbyist and professionals which are in majority on any gaming forum)

Let's just look at a classic example, Coca Cola. Their commercials have absolutely nothing to do with their product. And why would they? Product itself is a guilty pleasure, we know it's bad but we like the taste and sugar rush we get. Therefor their commercials go with generating positive feelings within us. Joy of friendship, music, love... Carbonated caramel soda has nothing to do with any of that but feelings linger. And look at how successful Coca Cola is.

I really have to go, I just hope I gave you people some food for thoughts.
 

Fappy

\[T]/
May 1, 2020
12,010
0
0
Country
United States
Zachary Amaranth said:
I really did find myself thinking, "well, wait. Would I be bothered by Watch Dogs' visuals if Ubisoft hadn't lied?"

And the answer is "probably not."

Pizza is a decent meal, but you might be disappointed if you got it when you had (pre-)ordered fillet mignon.

The other problem is, as Racecarlock puts it:

Racecarlock said:
Once they make their money, they care nothing about any of their customers after that point. They don't care. Because as long as the marketing is good enough and they make their money, they refuse to give two shits about anything after that.
I mean, what should be the teachable moment from Watch Dogs and what is the teachable moment are completely different. This should have been a moment where we taught them a lesson about how they can't get away with lying to us, but instead, we taught them that they can lie to us, be exposed, spark massive outrage, and still be a million-selling game. Watch Dogs is a dominant media force. What's to stop Gearbox from learning the message that maybe they should lie more or lie bigger next time?

For all the protests, we'll buy the games. Maybe not me specifically, or you specifically, but we as a whole.

And every year, people protest the hype of E3. Each year, the complaints get louder, but EA and Ubisoft and Activision get all the more bombastic. And despite those protests, each year we see these games sell phenomenally well. I can't believe that they will listen until there's a reason to. And we're not giving them cause to do anything but lie more. If you're outraged, but still buying the game, the latter part is all they see.

Fappy said:
The more I see of it, the more I want Hyrule Warriors. I really hope Lu Bu turns out being a secret character or something XD
Probably the best you can hope for is a cameo (a la Samurai Warriors)

I'm kind of hoping we see Zelda characters show up in a future Warriors Orochi game.
We can only hope to see Link go toe-to-toe with Lu Bu and a Gundam.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
Its funny how the Wii-U is easily the system with the things I want most out of this year (aside from PC and 3DS to an extent) Hyrule Warriors had officially caught my interest and I can't wait for Super Smash Bros U. Hopefully if Nintendo pumps some money into Wii-U marketing and shows its not a shiny expensive peripheral for the Wii, the system will truly start to shine.

Hoping the division will be good, I remember my cousin was stoked for it, he was stoked for Watch Dogs like you wouldn't believe and was left pissed off at the finished result.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
You know, back in the day (like PS1 and PS2 era) I actually enjoyed per-rendered cut scenes. In all Final Fantasy games for ps1, getting to the cut scene was the goal for me. Now-a-days... so don't fucking care. You use to be able to tell the difference between game play and some CGI thing. Now, it's hard to tell (sometimes), a lot because of developers and publishers lying and setting ridiculous expectations, and partly because the gaming crowd has gotten spoiled and whiny. I've had a PS4 for a couple months now. The games look great (for the most part, Bound by Flame is an exception) and then I went back to 360 to play ME3, and it also looked great. This industry has gotten so fucked up.
 

Fasckira

Dice Tart
Oct 22, 2009
1,678
0
0
I used to love demo discs. Floppys/CDs full of games coming up, with usually an accompanying article in the magazine. There was no lying, just an opinion based on the exact same strip of content that you yourself could play a few months before the game hit the shelves. Hell, I wouldn't even considering buying a game on release date if I hadn't had a chance to rattle through a demo yet. Simpler times.

beef_razor said:
getting to the cut scene was the goal for me.
Bit off topic but.. I was getting to do a preview on NFS The Run many moons ago; we were all having a good laugh, things were going smooth till we got asked what we thought about the inclusion of QTEs. Most people there seemed quite favourable but I countered and said, "I dont like it, because I used to use the cut scene time to drink some of my tea".

I was laughed at and mocked, not helped by being the only Brit there (what with the tea reference and all) but even now I think my point still stands - I like cut scenes because they're a break! I've just spent ages trying to beat a boss or goal, I want a few moments to enjoy that before getting back into it.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
1,146
0
0
beef_razor said:
You know, back in the day (like PS1 and PS2 era) I actually enjoyed per-rendered cut scenes. In all Final Fantasy games for ps1, getting to the cut scene was the goal for me. Now-a-days... so don't fucking care. You use to be able to tell the difference between game play and some CGI thing. Now, it's hard to tell (sometimes), a lot because of developers and publishers lying and setting ridiculous expectations, and partly because the gaming crowd has gotten spoiled and whiny. I've had a PS4 for a couple months now. The games look great (for the most part, Bound by Flame is an exception) and then I went back to 360 to play ME3, and it also looked great. This industry has gotten so fucked up.
Well, I'd argue that those pre-rendered cut scenes worked because they didn't represent the final game and weren't supposed to. Final Fantasy VII, VIII, and IX's cut scenes were there to give a more movie-like feel for those scenes. Anyone going in knew that the game would like worse that those cut scenes so weren't angered by the lower graphic quality. In more recent years, developers are using the same methods but claiming that the videos are gameplay and not upscaled shots or cutscenes.
 

Dragon Zero

No one of note
Apr 16, 2009
710
0
0
There's something different about the show today... Jim, have you lost weight? It's a good look for you!

Anyway I'm amazed just how many people have come to the conclusion that art direction is more important than actual graphical horsepower and yet it goes ignored.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
1,146
0
0
Fasckira said:
I used to love demo discs. Floppys/CDs full of games coming up, with usually an accompanying article in the magazine. There was no lying, just an opinion based on the exact same strip of content that you yourself could play a few months before the game hit the shelves. Hell, I wouldn't even considering buying a game on release date if I hadn't had a chance to rattle through a demo yet. Simpler times.

beef_razor said:
getting to the cut scene was the goal for me.
Bit off topic but.. I was getting to do a preview on NFS The Run many moons ago; we were all having a good laugh, things were going smooth till we got asked what we thought about the inclusion of QTEs. Most people there seemed quite favourable but I countered and said, "I dont like it, because I used to use the cut scene time to drink some of my tea".

I was laughed at and mocked, not helped by being the only Brit there (what with the tea reference and all) but even now I think my point still stands - I like cut scenes because they're a break! I've just spent ages trying to beat a boss or goal, I want a few moments to enjoy that before getting back into it.
Cut scene QTE's can work if it makes it clear what is a standard cut scene and what is a QTE cut scene. See Kingdom Hearts II for examples of that.
 

wooty

Vi Britannia
Aug 1, 2009
4,252
0
0
I find it ironic that people badmouth Nintendo saying that "ohhh, its always the same thing every year. Zelda and Mario get wheeled out for their annual hype show".

Now it seems that the two new Zelda titles were the most interesting things revealed at this years EEE. They've definitely put my mind on the future WiiU owners track.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
When your E3 games cant compare to 2008 old games made on low budgets
*Obligatory video I always post*
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAYLHAPPkvw&list=PLD2B82E405CF9650C&index=4

You know you suck.

Though HORSE POWER DOES matter. If its used for things that matter... like AI or graphics/physics that ENFORCE gameplay or atmoshpere.
And it is CHEAP compared to *insert mega actor here* or *Hans Zimmer spam here*.

Agree with the Rest! :) !
 

Brian Tams

New member
Sep 3, 2012
919
0
0
I can't help but think that we gamers are to blame for some of this.

We bitched, moaned, and sharpened our internet pitch-forks after the Watch_Dogs bullshot scandal... and it still shattered sales records.

Why should companies stop abusing our intelligence if we keep rewarding them for doing so?
 

ex275w

New member
Mar 27, 2012
187
0
0
The worst thing is that the stupid pre-rendered trailers/unrepresentative gameplay tactic has worked to great success in the past. Would Dead Island and Watch Dogs have even gotten half the sales they did if it wasn't for that tragic pre-rendered trailer and that E3 2012 "gameplay" demonstration?
 

SnakeoilSage

New member
Sep 20, 2011
1,211
0
0
I didn't even follow E3 this year but what little I saw painted Nintendo as being the more trustworthy and appealing star of the show. If they announce a new Earthbound I'm getting a Wii-U tomorrow.
 

BlumiereBleck

New member
Dec 11, 2008
5,402
0
0
"And what was announced for Hyrule Warriors?"

The most forgettable character in the entire game the bug princess.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
Hey Jim, got any lotto numbers?

And of course, people are more upset when you lie about what they should expect than if you just delievered what you promised. Especially if what you promise sounds, well promising. I remember watching the E3 demo for Watchdogs and getting excited because it seemed like a really interesting idea, and some of that got deflated when I saw shooting gameplay, but I was still hoping Ubisoft would really deliever something really interesting. Nope, hacking is seoondary to shooting throughout the entire game. Well the visuals are still that awesome, right? Nope, visuals suck. Well, they're at least trying to have an interesting plot, right? Not really, there's a lot of cliches and the main character is the least interesting thing on screen. Same deal with Colonial Marines. I really don't understand how none of these big wigs seem to actually understand that in the first place, let alone with so many PR problems in the wake of instances similar to what I described.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
I think the PR fluff attitude stems from these dumb higherups and their thinking that the main buyers of their products are cavemen who aren't certain of the distinction between up and down.

Suit exec 1:"How do we sell a butt ton more copies?"
Suit exec 2:"Lie to em!"
1:"Won't they notice eventually?"
2:"Meh, they're too stoopids."
 

PunkRex

New member
Feb 19, 2010
2,533
0
0
I liked the video Jim but I can't agree about Gears of War.

The games arn't gunning for realism, if so, the main characters wouldn't look like homeless Hulks and She-hulks carrying weapons that would weigh twice what they do. The games do have art direction; a dirty, greasy, bloody, toothy one but direction none the less.
 

UNHchabo

New member
Dec 24, 2008
535
0
0
themilo504 said:
You have a new intro? THIS SHOW HAS BEEN RUINED FOREVER(I?m joking and I actually like the new intro).
And there's no longer two glitches in the audio! They got added way back when Jim added the footage of him posing with the Warhammer 40K Chainsword.

The audio still sounds a bit muffled though...
 

hydrolythe

New member
Oct 22, 2013
45
0
0
Brian Tams said:
I can't help but think that we gamers are to blame for some of this.

We bitched, moaned, and sharpened our internet pitch-forks after the Watch_Dogs bullshot scandal... and it still shattered sales records.

Why should companies stop abusing our intelligence if we keep rewarding them for doing so?
As odd as this may sound E3 is not all that important to AAA publishers. Most of the people ignore E3 and just watch the advertisements on television. E3 is just there to impress the hardcore gaming crowd.

Even the internet does not really seem powerful enough to communicate with the majority of the gamers out there.

This is why I think that most people probably do not know and do not wish to care about that incident. They just see the advertising on television and think because of it that it is a cool product that they need to buy to be cool.
 

Yo Bo

New member
Jun 30, 2014
3
0
0
demented said:
A while ago I began worrying that I had outgrow games. Then I realized that no, what I've outgrown is the bullshit of companies like Ubisoft and EA.

For me the next generation consists of a 3DS and a PC.

Also, loved the over the top ending in your video. I wish I could come just by thinking about myself.
I've honestly felt the exact same thing, which feels jarring since i LOVE video-games in general. Atleast until I played some Layton, Ace Attorney and Persona. Nintendo did win E3 this year because of their honesty and exceptional costumer relations (including the Smash tourney). That said though, their E3 presentation wasn't really exceptional. Although good, they basically won E3 because they didn't f up in comparison to the other companies. I do have a few gripes with Nintendo, biggest one being over-reliance on the same games and aesthetics instead of exploring new things (Pokemon being one of the worst offenders in that regard). I had hoped for a few more new IP's like Splatoon and an announcement of the Pokken fighters game rumored to be in developement, but perhaps they're simply keeping their cards close for now? I hope so, because Nintendo is otherwise the most genuine of the big three imo.
 

Mr. Q

New member
Apr 30, 2013
767
0
0
A new intro for the Jimquisition?! What has Jim Sterling done?!?

Just kidding. It looks awesome, BTW.

As far E3 goes, the only thing that got my interest outside of Nintendo was Sunset Overdrive, a game that wasn't in the color pallet of dog shit brown or gravel gray. Maybe fighting games like Mortal Kombat X and season 2 of Killer Instinct. Aside from that, I was more hyped about what Nintendo had to show us. At least they lived up to expectations without having to bullshit people or come off as arrogant fucks. I'd like to be proven wrong and see, one day, the triple A game companies learn from past mistakes and do better. Unfortunately, they're all still driving the short bus off a cliff like it was the best and only idea they have. -_-
 

Rad Party God

Party like it's 2010!
Feb 23, 2010
3,560
0
0
Yup, I'm dying to get a WiiU, I didn't have this feeling since the PS2/GameCube days and I guess the WiiU is kinda/sorta returning to those days, but with HD graphics. And I like it.

WiiU + PC might be a great combination to consider.

Though MGS V looked incredible... so yeah... I hope it gets a WiiU/PC release someday :3
 

Reaper195

New member
Jul 5, 2009
2,055
0
0
While I do agree mostly, I do enjoy the completely CGI/Rendered trailers. It has less to do with the game and makes me go "Wow, they have a great animation department, assuming it's the same people working on the game. If only they would split off and make a CGI movie. Maybe about said game. Lookin' your way, Blizzard.". I also know that this is definitely not what I'm getting. Maybe it's because I'm long over the concept of pre-ordering (Even though that seems to have suddenly exploded the moment I stopped), and hardly ever even buy a game the month it comes out. But I'd much rather watch a CGI trailer than a gameplay video that might not be gameplay, or similar to what Shadow of Mordor did, which was show gameplay, but the camera was panning around unattached to the playable character with no HUD (The worst kind of "First Gameplay Trailer" ever).
 

Lunar Templar

New member
Sep 20, 2009
8,225
0
0
Imre Csete said:
Yeah, Nintendo is churning out decades old IPs on their current console as usual and everyone hails them as heroes, just because the other contenders are soulless idiots.

There are no winners here.
and yet, Nintendo does more to change up and try new things those IP with most releases then anywhere else.

You don't need a new IP to be innovative, besides, Capcom abandoned almost all of its 'old IP', and we all see how well that's worked out for em.
 

Nikolaz72

This place still alive?
Apr 23, 2009
2,125
0
0
carnex said:
Ufff. You are, for once nicely and to the point idealistic. It would be awesome to have games represented from the get go as they are. I would love that. However...

Let me premise this with stating that I despise marketing as it stands today and that I do not agree with their actions. But at the same time I must admit that they know what they are doing and that their tactics work.

Simply said honesty doesn't sell, or more truthfully, honesty does not sell as well as deception and confusion. Yes, it would be great if we had, from the start, only true gameplay videos (even if that idea is stupid for variety of reasons including that game does not get final polish until late in development cycle) but job of marketing is not to tell us the truth. It's job is to sell us things. And hype and elation does that better than truth. When commercial ends and we go on with our lives content more or less goes forgotten and what is left is tone and feeling it provoked and that is what lures people into purchasing product (except for borderline fanatical hobbyist and professionals which are in majority on any gaming forum)

Let's just look at a classic example, Coca Cola. Their commercials have absolutely nothing to do with their product. And why would they? Product itself is a guilty pleasure, we know it's bad but we like the taste and sugar rush we get. Therefor their commercials go with generating positive feelings within us. Joy of friendship, music, love... Carbonated caramel soda has nothing to do with any of that but feelings linger. And look at how successful Coca Cola is.

I really have to go, I just hope I gave you people some food for thoughts.
As of 2014 advertisement from firms like Mc-Donalds and Coca Cola are shifting from the old lies and deception into honesty, as honesty sells better in the modern day.

Studies have shown that people are becoming less affected by the hiring of renowned actors and celebrities to showcase products, of humor and comedy and other plastic presentations, and more affected by say, the Coca Cola campaign of *Share this with a friend* aswell as Mc Donalds videos about how awesome their employees have it and how they are enjoying their jobs (Though the latters more my country than the U.S where employees are not treated well enough for such an ad not to be outright lies)

Simply put, people are not buying into the bullshit as much as they used to after several decades of being lied to. They are started to only buy it honesty, or at least perceived honesty.

Honesty is the new Deception in marketing.
 

JimB

New member
Apr 1, 2012
2,180
0
0
Just for the sake of providing feedback, I will observe that though I am a bit saddened to see the old intor/outro go, the new one is fun and interesting and will surely be okay with me after a proper adjustment period.

Captain Capra said:
Bug Princess - never forget

I want a T-shirt with this.
I'd buy one.
 

Nowhere Man

New member
Mar 10, 2013
422
0
0
Everyone always knocks Nintendo for the whole IP thing but you know what? Other than the new Mortal Kombat no one else got my interest like Nintendo did this past E3.

Gaming Industry, can't you see all Jim wants is to be relieved of his burden! Thank God for him.
 

red255

New member
Apr 22, 2014
42
0
0
predicting Nintendo is not hard to do Jim. They've been doing the same things for the same people since the SNES. which is why they are still doing E3 like that.

Yes as stated, EA, Activision, and apparently Ubisoft have lost the ability to hype their games.

Bethesda once said with Fallout 3 that it would have hundreds of different endings. or something. when there were like 2 or 3 similiar endings except with the technically that the image of your childhood picture with your dad had a few hundred variants technically.

Didn't hurt that game, lies don't make a bad game good Jim, but if you are going to SELL a bad game, it doesn't hurt to lie. it only hurts the next game.
 

Thanatos2k

New member
Aug 12, 2013
820
0
0
red255 said:
predicting Nintendo is not hard to do Jim. They've been doing the same things for the same people since the SNES. which is why they are still doing E3 like that.

Yes as stated, EA, Activision, and apparently Ubisoft have lost the ability to hype their games.

Bethesda once said with Fallout 3 that it would have hundreds of different endings. or something. when there were like 2 or 3 similiar endings except with the technically that the image of your childhood picture with your dad had a few hundred variants technically.

Didn't hurt that game, lies don't make a bad game good Jim, but if you are going to SELL a bad game, it doesn't hurt to lie. it only hurts the next game.
Yeah, but Bioware tried that nonsense again with DA3....

http://www.geek.com/games/biowares-dragon-age-inquisition-will-have-40-different-endings-1596502/

...and people saw right through it.

http://gamingbolt.com/bioware-dragon-age-inquisition-doesnt-really-have-40-endings

The lies aren't working anymore.
 

Kevin7557

New member
May 31, 2008
124
0
0
I can understand awesome prerendered trailers. Even if they are increasingly boring as they try to emulate video game footage instead of wowing concepts, art directions, or just as a snappy advertisement. They're a good eye catchers and there are good ways to do them. Tropico 5 (buggy and broken as it is) had a good example with one of it's trailers. You clearly knew this was a hilarious advertisement, not representative of the final product. (sorry pretty sure I'm not allowed to link here or I would)

But at a certain point, I do expect to see actual gameplay footage. Tropico 5 I'll use as an example again, did this well. They had a very long gameplay demo video that showed you exactly what you were getting. Fallout did this well, as well. CG announcement, and eventual gameplay footage closer to launch.

What I don't like is how Electronic Arts especially, but others are guilty of this as well, are taking what is perhaps in game engine rendered footage, but never the less not gameplay footage and calling it gameplay footage. All this tells me as a consumer is: DON'T BUY THIS GAME!!! or IT'S A TRAP!.

And when these companies false advertise and they get me, it's Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I don't preorder their products anymore, and they're lucky if I buy them at all, since their competition is more than happy to supply awesome experiences without the deciete and bullshit.

That aside: I don't see what Jim sees. Watch Dogs doesn't look bad, but GTAV on the last generation looked more impressive.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
Fappy said:
We can only hope to see Link go toe-to-toe with Lu Bu and a Gundam.
With Ryu Hyabusa and Keiji Maeda in tow.

Hmmm...Gundam+Ocarina....There's a Dragonzord joke in there somewhere.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
You would think the industry would have learned by now, after so many years. But who are we kidding, this is the videogame industry, they will never learn a goddamn thing. Thank god for Jim!

Now where is the new Dismal Jesters episode you lovably lazy fuck?!
 

orangeapples

New member
Aug 1, 2009
1,836
0
0
Aside from Nintendo, there was one shining moment among the other press conferences: Little Big Planet 3. Now I know a lot of people hated it because they were pretty bad, but that is what I enjoyed about it. It wasn't a guy standing up there holding a controller pretending the play through the game, it was 4 people not entirely sure of what they were doing trying to figure out the best way through the game. They died a bunch of times, and did their best to stay on script whereas all of the other "gameplay" demos show us perfect scenarios under ideal situations. Them just using Swoop to speed through the demo when they realized they were going long was something actual people would do. That was the only moment that was not Nintendo or some website's footage that made me think something was gameplay.
 

LoneWolf83

New member
Apr 8, 2014
37
0
0
synobal said:
Sadly Jim the guys with the advertising and PR degrees will not agree with you. As long as you pour money into advertising you'll be fine regardless of how much you lied.
The problem with that is is leads to The Boy who Cried Wolf issue. They lie and over hype their game, the games come out good or mediocre then people call them crap because they didn't get what the expected then the people get cynical and any marketing stops working on them. The problem is marketers have no clue what they are doing, Joe Blow off the street would be a better marketer than anyone with a masters degree in marketing. What they learn in marketing courses is all out of date and was bullshit when it was though up and then reinforce their the bullshit with focus groups designed to tell them what they want to hear.

If anyone reading this is going for a marketing degree, here is a tip: When you get your degree delete everything you learned about marketing from your brain, it's all bullshit.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
Valderis said:
You would think the industry would have learned by now, after so many years. But who are we kidding, this is the videogame industry, they will never learn a goddamn thing. Thank god for Jim!
The awful truth is that they don't need to learn this lesson as long as we keep giving them money.
 

Redlin5_v1legacy

Better Red than Dead
Aug 5, 2009
48,837
0
0
Digging the new intro Jim!

Also liars and marketers pretty much go hand in hand for most things these days...
 

Mikeyfell

New member
Aug 24, 2010
2,784
0
0
This sort of circles back to what that idiot Phil Fish said about Let's Play videos.

it's called advertizing, that you don't even have to pay for.

The fact that some game devs and publishers think that people seeing their games being played will hurt their bottom line is so telling about how much faith they have in their products.

Banning preorders all together would be the cure for all that. not that that'll ever happen.

The fact that it's almost impossible to go to a retail store and buy a game on Day 1 with out having preordered just leads to more preorders and it is reinforces that self perpetuating circle of lies and misinformation.

Kind of like how #1 at the box office is not a comment on the movies quality it's a comment on the quality of the movie's marketing. then that gets used in the marketing to convince more people to go see the movie.
 

crazyburnerboy8

New member
Jan 4, 2009
14
0
0
jim have you lost weight ?? you look thin!, thank god for game related stress, lord knows thats the only exercise i get !
 

truckspond

New member
Oct 26, 2013
403
0
0
A good aesthetic can make any game look good no matter how little raw graphics horsepower you actually have.

For instance: Take a look at the image below



Notice how despite the obviously low resolution textures the game still looks rather decent (IMHO) - That is the aesthetic of the game at work.

And again with this one



You have jagged lines all over the place due to a lack of raw graphical horsepower but the aesthetic makes it still look good.

Now if you want a challange then without cheating guess which console generation the game that those two screenshots come from is from
 

Ninmecu

New member
May 31, 2011
262
0
0
truckspond said:
A good aesthetic can make any game look good no matter how little raw graphics horsepower you actually have.

For instance: Take a look at the image below



Notice how despite the obviously low resolution textures the game still looks rather decent (IMHO) - That is the aesthetic of the game at work.

And again with this one



You have jagged lines all over the place due to a lack of raw graphical horsepower but the aesthetic makes it still look good.

Now if you want a challange then without cheating guess which console generation the game that those two screenshots come from is from
They look to be N64/PsONE Era graphics.

OT: I already decided to get a WiiU next month(assuming I don't find a place to move to.) but this last E3 made it cemented. Lots of cool looking experiences in the coming months. Looking forward to it.
 

Darkmantle

New member
Oct 30, 2011
1,031
0
0
TheKasp said:
I was bored by the E3 this year. Nintendo was the one company that showed interesting stuff, the rest was boring ass crap seen hundreds of times before.

Well, how long will it take for the usual suspects to come and defend the poor, afraid companies against the bad 'SJW' and their unfair attacks and treatment...

Why would they do that? Are you saying that people who dislike lying corporations are social justice warriors? I'm confused by your weird insertion of SJWs into this topic.
 

CaitSeith

Formely Gone Gonzo
Legacy
Apr 14, 2020
5,165
155
68
Seth Carter said:
But I'm curious as to what the take on the supposedly "in engine" obviously scripted and edited (cause ya know, that slow-mo complete camera shift is blatantly obviously not an ingame thing and I don't know how anyones expected to believe it is) Zelda Wii-U thing is.
Well noticed. Nintendo doesn't have a clean record when it comes to E3 Zelda games. Wind Waker was bashed when it came out for the Gamecube because it looked nothing like the Zelda they showed up in the E3 a couple of years before.
 

AJ_Lethal

New member
Jun 29, 2014
141
0
0
TheKasp said:
Well, how long will it take for the usual suspects to come and defend the poor, afraid companies against the bad 'SJW' and their unfair attacks and treatment...
Are you trying to create the Nth Escapist's Here-We-Go-Again Shitstorm, by any chance?

OT: Jim hits it again, as usual. Bullshitting your audience with scripted CGI bullfilms shows your lack of confidence of your product as-is.

captcha: play it again, sam

are you challenging me, captcha? and my name ain't Sam.
 

truckspond

New member
Oct 26, 2013
403
0
0
Ninmecu said:
...

They look to be N64/PsONE Era graphics...
You honestly think that this would run on consoles with less that 50 MHz of CPU speed and equally low power graphics and stay at 60 FPS despite all of the particle effects going on?

 

Saviordd1

New member
Jan 2, 2011
2,455
0
0
synobal said:
Sadly Jim the guys with the advertising and PR degrees will not agree with you. As long as you pour money into advertising you'll be fine regardless of how much you lied.
As a guy who's currently actually earning a degree in Advertising and PR I gotta say that's not what we're taught. Maybe when I actually enter the industry that'll change but for the most part I'm being taught that goodwill isn't something advertising can buy and it is THE most valuable thing a company can have.
 

daxterx2005

New member
Dec 19, 2009
1,615
0
0
I really can't wait for Hyrule warriors.
Also, I like how Bayonette 2 video had her dressed as Link, that looks cool :p
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
While I think Nintendo games havn't been good for over a decade, and their consoles havn't been worth buying since the SNES. And they still have fucking region locking on their systems.

Anyway, while I think that, Nintendo still does actually have respect thanks to stuff like this, even if I wouldn't buy any of their devices or games in a century for anything but a used price heavily cheaper then the original price.
 

Brian Tams

New member
Sep 3, 2012
919
0
0
CaitSeith said:
Seth Carter said:
But I'm curious as to what the take on the supposedly "in engine" obviously scripted and edited (cause ya know, that slow-mo complete camera shift is blatantly obviously not an ingame thing and I don't know how anyones expected to believe it is) Zelda Wii-U thing is.
Well noticed. Nintendo doesn't have a clean record when it comes to E3 Zelda games. Wind Waker was bashed when it came out for the Gamecube because it looked nothing like the Zelda they showed up in the E3 a couple of years before.
They were honest from the get-go about the Zelda U trailer, though. They said it was in-engine, and made it clear it wasn't in-game.

It was the Escapist who fucked up and misquoted them as saying it was "in-game" because, you know, this site kinda sucks ass when it comes to getting the information correct the first time.
 

IamLEAM1983

Neloth's got swag.
Aug 22, 2011
2,581
0
0
I do wonder if Jim's magnificent ego won't eventually upset the planet's route around the sun, or if he won't just turn into a glory-sucking black hole, Large Hadron Collider Apocalypse style.

Jokes aside, I have to agree, as always. What's so hard about being honest? What's so hard in having some confidence in your product, such as it is? I know budgets are being inflated and I know studios tend to desperately cling to pre-order money to finance their next bloated pseudo-epic - but there has got to be a way for them to break that culture, right?

I mean, not so long ago, games used to have close to no publicity at all, outside of the super rad Saturday morning SNES cartridge ads that dominated my childhood's commercial breaks. You had to pick around channels in the hopes of finding a gaming-related show, and that was literally all you were going to get!

Now, it feels as though a game can't survive on the market if it doesn't generate hype two fricking years before its release. It's just sad.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
Brian Tams said:
They were honest from the get-go about the Zelda U trailer, though. They said it was in-engine, and made it clear it wasn't in-game.
This is something other companies get crap for, though.

truckspond said:
They look to be N64/PsONE Era graphics...
You honestly think that this would run on consoles with less that 50 MHz of CPU speed and equally low power graphics and stay at 60 FPS despite all of the particle effects going on?[/quote]

People are super quick to throw around the "two gens ago" card. Though that would be three gens, but people usually go back two.

I wouldn't concern myself with that sort of thing. People will go hyperbolic to the point of absurdity.

AJ_Lethal said:
Bullshitting your audience with scripted CGI bullfilms shows your lack of confidence of your product as-is.
Or pattern recognition.

Darkmantle said:
Why would they do that? Are you saying that people who dislike lying corporations are social justice warriors? I'm confused by your weird insertion of SJWs into this topic.
Because "Social Justice Warrior" basically means "anyone who has a position I disagree with" in the way it's thrown around.

Mikeyfell said:
The fact that it's almost impossible to go to a retail store and buy a game on Day 1 with out having preordered just leads to more preorders and it is reinforces that self perpetuating circle of lies and misinformation.
I haven't run into this problem before. Well, not since like, the PS2 days. I think the last time I actually had to pre-order a game was Burnout 3, which is a decade old. Game stores seem to overstock at launch in most cases.

Unless you're talking limited editions and the like, but that would strike me as the point.
 

Brian Tams

New member
Sep 3, 2012
919
0
0
Zachary Amaranth said:
Usually (but not always) companies get crap for it not because they're using in-engine footage in place of in-game footage, but because they're being dishonest about it. They'll try and sell the idea that what we're watching is actual gameplay, when its really just in-engine footage cut to look like gameplay. Or they'll dodge the question about whether its gameplay.

Nintendo did not do this. They were honest up front, and that's why they "got away with it." Any company that follows suit will usually not draw the ire of gamers.
 

MrHide-Patten

New member
Jun 10, 2009
1,309
0
0
Nintendo proving time and time again that they should really go full on software. Their games are great, the console is the only thing stopping me from playing it. Maybe the Piss poor and the Xboner will get some nicer things when they've been out for a year or two.

If it weren't for the internet, E3 would pass me by entirely and I would completely ignore it.
 

AJ_Lethal

New member
Jun 29, 2014
141
0
0
Kenneth Leider said:
Jim suffers for their sins. Oh why won't they stop their sinful ways!
Because according to the book of Jim, he still has to be killed via crucifixion to a giant purple dildo so he can descend to the depths of corporate hell and defeat everyone in there, then resurrect after 4 days because of fucking lag so he can ascend to a higher plane of existence and become The Jim.
 

CrazyCapnMorgan

Is not insane, just crazy >:)
Jan 5, 2011
2,742
0
0
Jimothy Sterling said:
How To Sell Games Without Being A Lying Dick

E3 was full of lies and conjecture, and that was stupid. At least one company was doing it right.
Also, Bug Princess.


Watch Video
I think the advertisers and marketers are really an outdated thing now. At least, for what they cost vs how they perform, I think it is. Money can be better spent elsewhere. In my view, part of the problem of over-inflated gaming budget costs stem from the production, packaging and distribution of this kind of bullshit.

And I take this kind of attitude towards advertising and marketing with a little help...

 

Branindain

New member
Jul 3, 2013
187
0
0
As a primarily Sony gamer I totally agree that Ninty's E3 is the way to go. If everyone did it like that I would actually pay attention to E3. I'm still a couple of years away from getting a WiiU to be my PS4's sidekick, but when I do Hyrule Warriors will be my first port of call, it really looks enticing. I'm curious whether the darling Zelda or the scorned Warriors series will carry the day come review time.

Oh, and thumbs up to the new intro.
 

Mikeyfell

New member
Aug 24, 2010
2,784
0
0
Zachary Amaranth said:
Mikeyfell said:
The fact that it's almost impossible to go to a retail store and buy a game on Day 1 with out having preordered just leads to more preorders and it is reinforces that self perpetuating circle of lies and misinformation.
I haven't run into this problem before. Well, not since like, the PS2 days. I think the last time I actually had to pre-order a game was Burnout 3, which is a decade old. Game stores seem to overstock at launch in most cases.

Unless you're talking limited editions and the like, but that would strike me as the point.
Really? because that's happened to me with the last 3 high profile games I tried to buy (And I do mean last as in final because it's highly unlikely that I'll ever pay money for a high profile game again)

GTA 5, Dark Souls 2 and Watch Dogs.
they weren't available on Day 1 unless I preordered them so I didn't buy them. and still haven't.
 

NoeL

New member
May 14, 2011
841
0
0
templar1138a said:
I'm worried that the attempts at open-worlding the new Zelda will make it not FEEL like a Zelda game. Still, fingers crossed.
Looks like they're trying to bring back some of the Zelda 1 and 3 feeling, with those being largely open-world and all (more so the former). Will be interesting to see if they ditch the "do three dungeons -> open up real game" formula and maybe have a "short/skipable tutorial -> open up real game" instead. I'm sure the world/animations/combat will all deliver that Zelda feeling, but I hope they really change up the way items are used. I don't want to see more "use item to complete dungeon puzzle, use item to defeat boss". Maybe have items from other dungeons open up alternate routes or secrets etc. And they should make finding the actual dungeon a puzzle in itself again! It was fun trying to find where you had to go, rather than having some flashing dot on the map.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
beef_razor said:
You know, back in the day (like PS1 and PS2 era) I actually enjoyed per-rendered cut scenes. In all Final Fantasy games for ps1, getting to the cut scene was the goal for me. Now-a-days... so don't fucking care. You use to be able to tell the difference between game play and some CGI thing. Now, it's hard to tell (sometimes), a lot because of developers and publishers lying and setting ridiculous expectations, and partly because the gaming crowd has gotten spoiled and whiny. I've had a PS4 for a couple months now. The games look great (for the most part, Bound by Flame is an exception) and then I went back to 360 to play ME3, and it also looked great. This industry has gotten so fucked up.
You can't tell the difference because CGI isn't used anymore. Its all in-engine stuff, just regular NPCs with animations. In the PS1 era, all cut scenes were done by hand and made from scratch just like CGI movies. In-engine scenes were just better, as players won't spot a difference if they are the same exact thing.

Which is why boasting about cut scene parity, like the order 1886, is worthless. We had parity between cut scenes and game play for a long while. Another bonus is that you don't need to make a better cutscene for more powerful platforms, as in engine cut scenes scale really well. So unlike CGI, in engine cut scenes can support higher end graphics and hardware. Whereas a CGI cutscene would look too different from the game, and would require multiple versions for multiple platforms. On an expensive process.
 

immortalfrieza

Elite Member
Legacy
May 2, 2020
2,023
54
53
Country
USA
Zachary Amaranth said:
The awful truth is that they don't need to learn this lesson as long as we keep giving them money.
The even worse truth is that for every one person that wises up and stopped giving these people money, there's a hundred more casuals and blind fanboys who either don't know or don't give a damn about how they are being royally screwed over just coming into some disposable income who will give the industry money anyway, meaning that refusing to give them money is ultimately meaningless in the end.
 

Meinos Kaen

New member
Jun 17, 2009
200
0
0
Damn, I'm so, so fought... I mean, on one hand, yeah. Nintendo's policy of dealing directly with the customers is nice. I like Nintendo Direct.

But on the other, Nintendo wants to start a personal affiliate program on Youtube to get their piece of minuscule pie (are they that desperate for money?!). They seem to only be able to stay afloat thanks to their first party titles and even that isn't doing them as much good as needed, since their last two consoles in a row are rushed out pieces of convoluted hardware based around a gimmick that no one seems to know what to do with it and it also is a pain to develop for. And the less said about their Online Store's offer, the better.

Bottom line, Nintendo is exclusively doing good things for Nintendo fans. If you're a gamer on the fence, they offer very little for you. Even less if you're a third party/indie developer.

By comparison, Sony is getting much more of my respect because they learn from their mistakes and have understood that they can't survive and win by ignoring gamers -like Microsoft tried to do- and third parties -like Nintendo does-. Now, if only they would lower the prices for the Vita storage cards and stop talking about it like it's just a horseshoe for their Ensemble Dark Horse the PS4...
 

Scars Unseen

^ ^ v v < > < > B A
May 7, 2009
3,028
0
0
CaitSeith said:
Seth Carter said:
But I'm curious as to what the take on the supposedly "in engine" obviously scripted and edited (cause ya know, that slow-mo complete camera shift is blatantly obviously not an ingame thing and I don't know how anyones expected to believe it is) Zelda Wii-U thing is.
Well noticed. Nintendo doesn't have a clean record when it comes to E3 Zelda games. Wind Waker was bashed when it came out for the Gamecube because it looked nothing like the Zelda they showed up in the E3 a couple of years before.
Your statement is misleading. There is nothing wrong with Nintendo's record. What you are referring to is a tech demo that they did in 1999. They actually showed Windwaker the following year(still 2 years before the game came out). Yes, some people criticized Nintendo's decision to go with a cel-shaded art style, but it wasn't because Nintendo misrepresented themselves. And time has proven most of the original criticism to be full of shit, as Windwaker is a pretty well loved iteration of the series.
 

Hover Hand Mode

New member
Sep 14, 2013
51
0
0
Does anybody else think Nintendo's E3 showing this year was so good simply because the actual presentation was an easy-to-digest 45 minutes long? There was very little filler (except maybe the walls of yarn) and it's easy enough to rewatch the whole thing and get even more hyped over all the sweet gameplay (not bullshotty trailers). If you haven't seen the video of Super Best Friends watching the whole Nintendo digital event this year, I think it's worth watching. They were legitimately amused!

All in all, this year's E3 talked me out of buying a PS4 and made me very happy to be a WiiU owner. That should say something.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
0
0
CaitSeith said:
Seth Carter said:
But I'm curious as to what the take on the supposedly "in engine" obviously scripted and edited (cause ya know, that slow-mo complete camera shift is blatantly obviously not an ingame thing and I don't know how anyones expected to believe it is) Zelda Wii-U thing is.
Well noticed. Nintendo doesn't have a clean record when it comes to E3 Zelda games. Wind Waker was bashed when it came out for the Gamecube because it looked nothing like the Zelda they showed up in the E3 a couple of years before.
But those were explicitly stated as tech demos. Not claimed to of been part of an actual game.
 

Xelzeno

New member
Mar 7, 2011
27
0
0
It's funny. For me the only appealing console is the Wii U and that is because to me, it does what consoles is supposed to do. Give out a lot of fun co-op, party and gimmicky games that you can sit down with a friend or two and play.

For the singleplayer experiences with nice graphics and such I just buy it for my PC, why would I need a console to do the same thing as my PC? Just worse.
 

Atmos Duality

New member
Mar 3, 2010
8,473
0
0
They will stop lying as soon as people stop blindly pre-ordering their games.
That's it. That's all it will take.

AAA PR and marketing is laser-focused on one thing: Getting the most sales on launch. "Slow burn" sales have significantly less emphasis on them because the quicker they make back their big bloated budget, the better it looks to investors on that quarterly report. (that, and due to media bombardment, it's becoming increasingly difficult to impress and hold the attention of prospective buyers; the "shelf life" of a video game is pretty small these days, even for big titles)

And even when a scandal occurs, even when they get caught red-handed, it's still profitable to overhype and lie, then apologize later (or lie some more).

That's why EA and Maxis lied through their teeth about SimCity 13'.
That's why Gearbox heavily doctored their demo for Aliens: Colonial Marines.

And that's why Ubisoft not only doctored their Watch Dogs' demo last year (and then buried the settings in the PC version to preserve parity with consoles), but offered several different pre-order editions and day 1 DLC.
 

Mangue Surfer

New member
May 29, 2010
364
0
0
CaitSeith said:
Seth Carter said:
But I'm curious as to what the take on the supposedly "in engine" obviously scripted and edited (cause ya know, that slow-mo complete camera shift is blatantly obviously not an ingame thing and I don't know how anyones expected to believe it is) Zelda Wii-U thing is.
Well noticed. Nintendo doesn't have a clean record when it comes to E3 Zelda games. Wind Waker was bashed when it came out for the Gamecube because it looked nothing like the Zelda they showed up in the E3 a couple of years before.
There's a tradition of Nintendo showing they new hardware it a Zelda inspired tech demo. Happens since N64, the Wii may be an exception, I can't remenber. But the tech demo never is related with an actual Zelda game.
 

templar1138a

New member
Dec 1, 2010
894
0
0
NoeL said:
And they should make finding the actual dungeon a puzzle in itself again! It was fun trying to find where you had to go, rather than having some flashing dot on the map.
I suppose I could put up with that in a three-dimensional world. I tried playing the first Zelda game on Gamecube and couldn't stand not having any idea where I was supposed to go. I've never liked isometrics that much.
 

KazeAizen

New member
Jul 17, 2013
1,129
0
0
daxterx2005 said:
I really can't wait for Hyrule warriors.
Also, I like how Bayonette 2 video had her dressed as Link, that looks cool :p
That was actually Bayonetta 1. Nintendo is fixing the Bayonetta issue by giving people the first game when they buy the second. I presume through download or something. That version will also come with Nintendo themed costumes as you can plainly see in addition to her usual flair. Again more of Nintendo doing something right. A lot of the fanbase was mad it was a Wii U exclusive. Now they can have both on one console AND rope in new people by giving them the first iteration. Probably one of the best examples of cultivating a new IP, that has more of a cult status now, into a full blown franchise. Also their Gamecube controller adapter is just $20. How freaking awesome is that?
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
Brian Tams said:
Usually (but not always) companies get crap for it not because they're using in-engine footage in place of in-game footage, but because they're being dishonest about it.
Well, no. They routinely catch crap for doing just what Nintendo did.

Mikeyfell said:
GTA 5, Dark Souls 2 and Watch Dogs.
I bought GTA V online, admittedly, and couldn't give less of a crap about Dark Souls, but I know people who walked in and bought Watch Dogs day one.

Edit: Come to think of it, I have at least one friend who bought GTA Day one, because he tried to "surprise" us with it.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,760
0
0
immortalfrieza said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
The awful truth is that they don't need to learn this lesson as long as we keep giving them money.
The even worse truth is that for every one person that wises up and stopped giving these people money, there's a hundred more casuals and blind fanboys who either don't know or don't give a damn about how they are being royally screwed over just coming into some disposable income who will give the industry money anyway, meaning that refusing to give them money is ultimately meaningless in the end.
As long as people keep telling themselves to justify their purchases, it really will be meaningless. But then, that's less because it's true and more because declaring it meaningless as a justification to keep buying games while protesting gaming is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's also rationalisation, and gamers have got real good at rationalising.
 

Jimothy Sterling

New member
Apr 18, 2011
5,976
0
0
Imre Csete said:
lukesparow said:
Sadly the gaming industry is run by a bunch of pathetic children.
It's about time for another crash.
Yeah, Nintendo is churning out decades old IPs on their current console as usual and everyone hails them as heroes, just because the other contenders are soulless idiots.

There are no winners here.
Eh, if you get bored with triple-A gaming, you can always turn to indie games. There are plenty of great indie games with actually innovative gameplay and great stories. Or mod some older games from GOG.com. I'd say that if you just say bollocks to triple-A, you win.
 

Squeaky

New member
Mar 6, 2010
303
0
0
Like the new credits prophet! But it is sad how relevant this is. It will probably take an industry collapse or thousands to lose their jobs before Ubi or EA admit they fucked up, even then I have a gut feeling they'd hold face and out flat blame the consumer for "not knowing what we want" or " Inadequately voicing our opinion". When from the beginning of this generation and the majority (of what I could see) half way though the last, gamers voiced a concern as to the direction of the industry.

I've never owned a Nintendo console, say what you will about my credentials as a gamer, money was a struggle when I was growing up for the finer things at least had a commodore 64 mind you xD. But I might pick a Wii U up maybe..

Gent said:
Imre Csete said:
lukesparow said:
Sadly the gaming industry is run by a bunch of pathetic children.
It's about time for another crash.
Yeah, Nintendo is churning out decades old IPs on their current console as usual and everyone hails them as heroes, just because the other contenders are soulless idiots.

There are no winners here.
Eh, if you get bored with triple-A gaming, you can always turn to indie games. There are plenty of great indie games with actually innovative gameplay and great stories. Or mod some older games from GOG.com. I'd say that if you just say bollocks to triple-A, you win.
Thank GOD! for mods!
 

daxterx2005

New member
Dec 19, 2009
1,615
0
0
KazeAizen said:
daxterx2005 said:
I really can't wait for Hyrule warriors.
Also, I like how Bayonette 2 video had her dressed as Link, that looks cool :p
That was actually Bayonetta 1. Nintendo is fixing the Bayonetta issue by giving people the first game when they buy the second. I presume through download or something. That version will also come with Nintendo themed costumes as you can plainly see in addition to her usual flair. Again more of Nintendo doing something right. A lot of the fanbase was mad it was a Wii U exclusive. Now they can have both on one console AND rope in new people by giving them the first iteration. Probably one of the best examples of cultivating a new IP, that has more of a cult status now, into a full blown franchise. Also their Gamecube controller adapter is just $20. How freaking awesome is that?
Nintendomination :3
 

MidnightRaith

New member
Dec 11, 2011
12
0
0
This is why I don't watch E3 anymore. I've heard that Nintendo stole the show and all, but really while I applaud their strategy and wish other companies would do the same, I can't get excited to buy their software. Nintendo is something I never was a fan of. I didn't play their games as a kid and the games I prefer now are typically multi-platform that I can buy for my PC. Just about their only flagship IP that I could see myself enjoying is Zelda and I won't buy a console for one IP. Sony's stuff is more interesting to me and I know more interesting games will slowly trickle out for the consoles over the next couple of years as it has in the past.

I don't like marketing and advertising for gaming. It's bloated and misleading. I now wait for games I'm interested to actually come out so I can read reviews and watch Let's Plays of them. Pre-ordering is a poison for the industry and we're falling for it over and over as gamers as a whole. In the long run, it won't matter if I myself stop pre-ordering games in the grand scheme of things. Casual gamers and kids especially will always fall for marketing because this stuff was designed to appeal to them in particular and they will always outnumber those of us that read reviews or news about the the gaming industry and games themselves. The only reason to stop is for myself, which is still important. The number of bullshit games I've bought in the last two years has been zero because I finally started to protect myself as a consumer. It won't change the gaming industry and their lies, but it's made my hobby more enjoyable again.
 

Demonchaser27

New member
Mar 20, 2014
197
0
0
Zachary Amaranth said:
I really did find myself thinking, "well, wait. Would I be bothered by Watch Dogs' visuals if Ubisoft hadn't lied?"

And the answer is "probably not."

Pizza is a decent meal, but you might be disappointed if you got it when you had (pre-)ordered fillet mignon.

The other problem is, as Racecarlock puts it:

Racecarlock said:
Once they make their money, they care nothing about any of their customers after that point. They don't care. Because as long as the marketing is good enough and they make their money, they refuse to give two shits about anything after that.
I mean, what should be the teachable moment from Watch Dogs and what is the teachable moment are completely different. This should have been a moment where we taught them a lesson about how they can't get away with lying to us, but instead, we taught them that they can lie to us, be exposed, spark massive outrage, and still be a million-selling game. Watch Dogs is a dominant media force. What's to stop Gearbox from learning the message that maybe they should lie more or lie bigger next time?

For all the protests, we'll buy the games. Maybe not me specifically, or you specifically, but we as a whole.

And every year, people protest the hype of E3. Each year, the complaints get louder, but EA and Ubisoft and Activision get all the more bombastic. And despite those protests, each year we see these games sell phenomenally well. I can't believe that they will listen until there's a reason to. And we're not giving them cause to do anything but lie more. If you're outraged, but still buying the game, the latter part is all they see.
You're definitely right, but the biggest problem is that we're dealing with a crowd made mostly of people who also honestly don't give a shit about gaming. Most "gamers" don't watch E3, keep up with current events, nor even do research about the games they're buying. What this allows for, is the easy manipulation of a particular demographic/crowd because most of the crowd aren't up in arms. Yeah we're all vocal about it, but most of the buyers of games out there give about as little of crap about gaming overall as the big corporations do. Unfortunately this particular market isn't made of passionate people yet. We're still in the growing phase since the big boom back in 2007-2008 where most gamers just stumbled in because some advertisements appeared on their tv that made games look "cool" or "in" to those people. I'm not gonna say there aren't a lot of gamers that care about gaming as a culture, but there just aren't enough compared to the ones who don't.
 

Demonchaser27

New member
Mar 20, 2014
197
0
0
NoeL said:
templar1138a said:
I'm worried that the attempts at open-worlding the new Zelda will make it not FEEL like a Zelda game. Still, fingers crossed.
Looks like they're trying to bring back some of the Zelda 1 and 3 feeling, with those being largely open-world and all (more so the former). Will be interesting to see if they ditch the "do three dungeons -> open up real game" formula and maybe have a "short/skipable tutorial -> open up real game" instead. I'm sure the world/animations/combat will all deliver that Zelda feeling, but I hope they really change up the way items are used. I don't want to see more "use item to complete dungeon puzzle, use item to defeat boss". Maybe have items from other dungeons open up alternate routes or secrets etc. And they should make finding the actual dungeon a puzzle in itself again! It was fun trying to find where you had to go, rather than having some flashing dot on the map.
I'm with you there. God, it's hard to play because of limitations now, but I love how the original Zelda felt.
 

God of Path

God of Path
Jul 6, 2011
119
0
0
Jim Sterling's 2015 campaign for World Hegemon will be comprised entirely of "BUG PRINCESS!"





And it will be successful.
 

The White Hunter

Basment Abomination
Oct 19, 2011
3,888
0
0
TizzytheTormentor said:
Its funny how the Wii-U is easily the system with the things I want most out of this year (aside from PC and 3DS to an extent) Hyrule Warriors had officially caught my interest and I can't wait for Super Smash Bros U. Hopefully if Nintendo pumps some money into Wii-U marketing and shows its not a shiny expensive peripheral for the Wii, the system will truly start to shine.

Hoping the division will be good, I remember my cousin was stoked for it, he was stoked for Watch Dogs like you wouldn't believe and was left pissed off at the finished result.
The Division looks neat, hope it hits PC at launch and not a year later with a terrible ubi-port.
 

DataSnake

New member
Aug 5, 2009
467
0
0
Another example of honesty and transparency selling games is Saints Row IV. The trailer and press previews showed what was actually in the game, the review embargo lifted a full week before launch day, consumers got a good, honest look at its pros and cons, and it sold over a million [http://www.destructoid.com/saints-row-iv-sells-a-million-copies-in-first-week-260922.phtml] copies in its first week.
 

CaitSeith

Formely Gone Gonzo
Legacy
Apr 14, 2020
5,165
155
68
Scars Unseen said:
Your statement is misleading. There is nothing wrong with Nintendo's record. What you are referring to is a tech demo that they did in 1999. They actually showed Windwaker the following year(still 2 years before the game came out). Yes, some people criticized Nintendo's decision to go with a cel-shaded art style, but it wasn't because Nintendo misrepresented themselves. And time has proven most of the original criticism to be full of shit, as Windwaker is a pretty well loved iteration of the series.
To put the facts clear.

2000 - Nintendo showed the Gamecube potential with an epic battle scene between Gannon and Link with a graphic style resembling to an improved version of Ocarina of Time.
2002 - Nintendo showed the Wind Waker with its cartoonish cell-shaded style. Saying that "some" previously hyped up fans went "WTF is this sh*t!" would be the understatement of the year.
2003 - Wind Waker was released. The game was called childish and boring, and it was bashed as one of the worst Zelda games ever by the gaming community.
2006 - Twilight Princess was released. It's graphics were much more similar to the first Gamecube trailer. Some people didn't like it, but it wasn't as bashed as the Wind Waker.
2011 - Skyward Sword was released. It wasn't a hit, but certainly it wasn't as hated as Wind Waker was at its time.
2013 - Wind Waker HD was released. Wii U owners loved it.
2014 - Nintendo talked about how the Wii U will push away some barriers that hold up the Zelda franchise (open world Zelda), and showed an epic battle scene between Link and a mechanical monster.

Of course things changed with the years, and I bought the Wind Waker when it was first released and finished it multiple times; but it doesn't change the fact that people were hyped up and felt let down at that time. So until they show the proper game with the proper title, I won't take anything for granted.
 

Dragonbums

Indulge in it's whiffy sensation
May 9, 2013
3,307
0
0
CaitSeith said:
Scars Unseen said:
Your statement is misleading. There is nothing wrong with Nintendo's record. What you are referring to is a tech demo that they did in 1999. They actually showed Windwaker the following year(still 2 years before the game came out). Yes, some people criticized Nintendo's decision to go with a cel-shaded art style, but it wasn't because Nintendo misrepresented themselves. And time has proven most of the original criticism to be full of shit, as Windwaker is a pretty well loved iteration of the series.
To put the facts clear.

2000 - Nintendo showed the Gamecube potential with an epic battle scene between Gannon and Link with a graphic style resembling to an improved version of Ocarina of Time.
2002 - Nintendo showed the Wind Waker with its cartoonish cell-shaded style. Saying that "some" previously hyped up fans went "WTF is this sh*t!" would be the understatement of the year.
2003 - Wind Waker was released. The game was called childish and boring, and it was bashed as one of the worst Zelda games ever by the gaming community.
2006 - Twilight Princess was released. It's graphics were much more similar to the first Gamecube trailer. Some people didn't like it, but it wasn't as bashed as the Wind Waker.
2011 - Skyward Sword was released. It wasn't a hit, but certainly it wasn't as hated as Wind Waker was at its time.
2013 - Wind Waker HD was released. Wii U owners loved it.
2014 - Nintendo talked about how the Wii U will push away some barriers that hold up the Zelda franchise (open world Zelda), and showed an epic battle scene between Link and a mechanical monster.

Of course things changed with the years, and I bought the Wind Waker when it was first released and finished it multiple times; but it doesn't change the fact that people were hyped up and felt let down at that time. So until they show the proper game with the proper title, I won't take anything for granted.
But at the end of the day they still said one was a tech demo and the others weren't. It's not Nintendo fault you got hyped into believing things that they never even said. In the E3 trailer for Zelda they specifically said this was part of the game. They did not say that at all for the Wii U tech demo. Nor did they say that for the Gamecube tech demo.
 

Scars Unseen

^ ^ v v < > < > B A
May 7, 2009
3,028
0
0
CaitSeith said:
Scars Unseen said:
Your statement is misleading. There is nothing wrong with Nintendo's record. What you are referring to is a tech demo that they did in 1999. They actually showed Windwaker the following year(still 2 years before the game came out). Yes, some people criticized Nintendo's decision to go with a cel-shaded art style, but it wasn't because Nintendo misrepresented themselves. And time has proven most of the original criticism to be full of shit, as Windwaker is a pretty well loved iteration of the series.
To put the facts clear.

2000 - Nintendo showed the Gamecube potential with an epic battle scene between Gannon and Link with a graphic style resembling to an improved version of Ocarina of Time.
2002 - Nintendo showed the Wind Waker with its cartoonish cell-shaded style. Saying that "some" previously hyped up fans went "WTF is this sh*t!" would be the understatement of the year.
2003 - Wind Waker was released. The game was called childish and boring, and it was bashed as one of the worst Zelda games ever by the gaming community.
2006 - Twilight Princess was released. It's graphics were much more similar to the first Gamecube trailer. Some people didn't like it, but it wasn't as bashed as the Wind Waker.
2011 - Skyward Sword was released. It wasn't a hit, but certainly it wasn't as hated as Wind Waker was at its time.
2013 - Wind Waker HD was released. Wii U owners loved it.
2014 - Nintendo talked about how the Wii U will push away some barriers that hold up the Zelda franchise (open world Zelda), and showed an epic battle scene between Link and a mechanical monster.

Of course things changed with the years, and I bought the Wind Waker when it was first released and finished it multiple times; but it doesn't change the fact that people were hyped up and felt let down at that time. So until they show the proper game with the proper title, I won't take anything for granted.
Dragonbums already pointed it out, but it's also worth noting that the end of the E3 showcase put the release date at 2015. That's one year as opposed to the 2000 tech demo's three. Not enough time for them to go back to the drawing board.

Also, your timeline is off. The cel shaded art style of Windwaker was showcased at Space World 2001. E3 2002 was where a playable demo was showcased, where it received a lot of critical praise, including the Best Console Game award from the Game Critics Awards. And your claim of the released game being called childish and boring is purely anecdotal, and not consistent with either my experience or any of the discussions I had with other Zelda fans at the time. And again, critical opinion highly disagrees with you on it, as does current public opinion if Metacritic is any indication. Whatever the initial knee-jerk reaction to the art reveal in 2001, time has vindicated Nintendo's choice among critics and fans alike. You'll notice that there's no Twilight Princess HD game for the Wii U.
 

hf13207

New member
Apr 4, 2008
2
0
0
You know Jim had a REALLY good point about not lying about your games...and maybe that is WHY COD keeps selling so well, they ALWAYS show game-play and not the prefabricated trailers that so many others use in instead of good and concrete game-play!

Just a thought!
 

GonzoGamer

New member
Apr 9, 2008
7,063
0
0
shadowmagus said:
But we can't like the WiiU, because samey gimmicks and bad graphics!

PC/WiiU Master race, reporting.
I think I'm with you. I'm not any where near getting a new gen console but when I do, it'll probably be the WiiU. Things like the next Fallout will be better on my pc.
 

AoyagiAichou

New member
Jul 14, 2014
1
0
0
I wouldn't call W_D "good looking". I'd call it "acceptable", especially when I look at (non-modded) GTA4.