Jimquisition: I'm Going To Murder Your Children

[Church185]

A woman is threatened on the internet in a grossly disproportionate manner. I was wondering when we'd have a brouhaha about how some stupid people doing stupid people shit and one/some woman/women taking it all too seriously means that gaming is sexist and we're sexist.

BRB, gotta flaggelate.

And in case you're wondering, no I didn't watch past the first minute or so, there really isn't a need to at this point.

Lady Victim, evil sexists, misogyny, gaming needs to change, THE ISSUE, etc.

If anythings damaging the industry it's people making a massive stink about this sort of shit only when it affects women.

When the 'Misandry in Videogames' guys were getting slaughtered on their boards and on twitter and then eventually got their project smothered, where was the indignation then?

He didn't once mention sexism in the video, and he brought up a couple recent cases of men receiving the same treatment. I believe it is you who is creating an issue where there wasn't one, not Jim. This video was about PEOPLE getting mistreated by crazy fans, not WOMEN being mistreated by misogynists.

Also, he isn't painting all gamers with the same brush. His rant doesn't apply for those of us who just play the games and vote with our wallet when they don't appeal to us.

 

[Muspelheim]

It's not fucking okay. And you, Jim, deserves a fucking medal.

This episode is really kind of pointless, everybody with a brain already knows that this kind of behavior is bad and the rest are too stupid to ever understand that.

That is a point. And I'm suggesting that someone be decorated for being generally decent.

But... Bloody hell, these are the cards we've got right now... But it's when decent people give up that we never get to change for better cards.

Edit: Although it's about as impressive as foreseeing that seven o'clock comes after six o'clock, I foresee mind-boggling amounts of projection to come.

 

[TheLazyGeek]

I'm Going To Murder Your Children

If your first response to a game creator doing something you dislike is to get personal with them and threaten their families, you waive any righteousness you might have had. Seems like a no-brainer ... yet so few of us seem to have brains.

Watch Video

Great video, it's messed up how people react over a pass-time activity. People need to grow up.

It's not even that people have to grow up. There is never ever ever ever any reason you should threaten someone or their immediate family, least of all because of a disagreement about any sort of media one may or may not enjoy. But, you know...people.

 

[Mr. Omega]

A woman is threatened on the internet in a grossly disproportionate manner. I was wondering when we'd have a brouhaha about how some stupid people doing stupid people shit and one/some woman/women taking it all too seriously means that gaming is sexist and we're sexist.

BRB, gotta flaggelate.

And in case you're wondering, no I didn't watch past the first minute or so, there really isn't a need to at this point.

Lady Victim, evil sexists, misogyny, gaming needs to change, THE ISSUE, etc.

Well, past the first minute he brought up death threats made to David Vonderharr and Stephen Toulouse and any critic who doesn't give X game a 9/10. The issue was about gamers making death threats to people who wrote a game or changed how a gun worked. Hepler just happened to be the most recent and most extreme example. A general, gender-neutral condemnation of the people who harass people in the industry.

I know others have mentioned it, but given the rest of your posts here, it's clear that the message isn't getting through. The only one trying to make this a gender issue is YOU.

 

[Kitsune Hunter]

Once again a good episode Jim and I agree, now I'm not really familiar with Hepler's work, but the fact that she and her children were subjected to death threats just because she had a different opinion of a game is nothing short of ridiculous. It's people like that who give gamers a bad name and why the likes of Fox News are always champing at the bit to accuse all gamers of being psychopaths.

 

[Something Amyss]

This has nothing to do with difference, Jim. The CoD patch was boilerplate stuff for gaming. While I don't know specifically what Hepler wrote in the Dragon Age series, nothing there was really different. Phil Fish is only "different" in the sense that he's a jackass who tells people to kill themselves because he can dish out "harsh truths" but is too delicate to handle them thrown back.

And even then, that seems to be the gamer in a nutshell. People who demand everyone else grow thicker skin but who themselves are so fucking fragile that they will fly off the handle when it affects them.

Hepler is just a figurehead for "things I don't like." The same with the PR guys for the Xbone. The same with the guy who had the odious duty of detailing a patch to the CoD community.

And yes, it's damn disgusting. But I don't think it's right to attribute this to daring to be different. One of your primary examples comes from a Call of Duty game. Dragon Age isn't exactly groundbreaking material, either.

Note that absolutely none of that justifies threats, either. I don't buy into the "it's the internet" mentality and I hope I never will. I'm not sure what's worse--that some people fins this okay or that more people actually seem to justify it.

 

[TWEWYFan]

Does that paint a very dark picture of current gamer culture of music culture, or does it rather just make individual crazy bitches look crazy?

Yes, to both I'm afraid. Don't get me wrong, there is a ton of good in the game culture and even more good people in it. However as Jim himself pointed out this is hardly an isolated incident and that's the part that troubles me. It's not just a matter of ignoring the crazy people when they appear to be doing actual damage.

 

[Legion]

I'm with you here Jim. I don't care what someone thinks a person did to them, threatening that person's kids is just completely unacceptable and I think it does paint a very dark picture of the current game culture.

But it doesn't, because it has nothing to do with game culture, not provably anyway.

A female politician in the UK who had the audacity to suggest it'd be a good idea to have more women on our currency was threatened with rape. Mary Beard, a lady who is a classicist and TV presenter was sent bomb threats for speaking up about the previous issue as well as others.

Neither of those, nor other many similar stories have anything to do with gaming whatsoever. It is the perceived anonymity that comes with posting online that causes most of these kinds of things. People cannot see their victim, often post under an alias and frequently do not think of the consequences.

The idea that gaming as a hobby might have something to do with this is no different from the people who blame rock music for causing drug addiction and violent media for causing mass shootings.

That is not to say we shouldn't care when people do it, or deal with it, but we should be looking at the root cause, not pointing the finger at one of the many areas where such behaviour occurs. Because if gaming did not exist, the people who sent those threats would still almost certainly be the same kind of people who did the things I linked above.

I think Jim is absolutely spot on with what he says, it is a problem for gaming in the sense that these people are causing issues, and we should deal with it. But it isn't because of gamers or gaming. We need to be looking at what causes to people behave like this in the first place, and how to deal with it. Not point fingers at gaming, because that is not really any different from what the politicians did after the mass shootings, and that was widely criticised.

OT: Jim, in your opening post you make it sound as though your original idea for the video was interrupted by this story. The thing is, the events happened last year. Jennifer Hepler left Bioware in February of 2012 in fact. I am not suggesting that the points you are wrong, as I mentioned above, I completely agree with what you said. It's just that the reasoning you gave for doing this video seems a little strange. It is not "current news" so I don't understand the seeming urgency.

As for using the word "entitled", you did in fact use it incorrectly, because if we are entitled to something that means we are right to expect it. The correct term would be having a false sense of entitlement, because that is what thinking you are entitled to something that you are not is.

Too bad you didn't feel the pressing need to stand up and be the hero we apparently needed when all the men you mentioned were getting threatened with death, but better late than never I guess.

He did:

An episode based around Phil Fish being harassed.

In fact this one he felt was important enough to do midweek despite having already done his regular episode. You seem to be trying to make this a gender issue when it isn't one, which is ironically what you are accusing Jim of doing.

 

[Deadagent]

I didn't know this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QLz0CqtMVc] still had to be passed around.

 

[Reeve]

At least some good came out this sideshow though: Jim was able to get paid for making this video.

Not everyone has to be a loser, eh?

 

[Something Amyss]

I know others have mentioned it, but given the rest of your posts here, it's clear that the message isn't getting through. The only one trying to make this a gender issue is YOU.

Maybe he's satirically demonstrating the point that people will go out of their way to rationalise their actions? Condemning people for "only getting offended because it's a woman" seems to be a fairly common way of justifying the actions of the people who threatened Hepler. It's also completely false, as there was a strong reaction to the Vanderbeek/CoD death threats. Jim even did a special show dealing with the Phil Fish debacle, but screw reality, right? We have a talking point to maintain!

 

[Neverhoodian]

One small correction though, her quitting Bioware wasn't a direct result of the harassment she received, she quit because she is going to be making a text book about narrative design and doing other game related freelance work. Game news outlets have kind of run away with the story out of context.

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups

Actually, he acknowledged that with a text blurb at 1:48.

Regardless of the reason why she left, it's still utterly ridiculous that she and her family received death threats over this. People that resort to such things are complete scum.

 

[Uriain]

I'm with you here Jim. I don't care what someone thinks a person did to them, threatening that person's kids is just completely unacceptable and I think it does paint a very dark picture of the current game culture.

How? How does this represent me and other gamers? And yeah I am gonna take it personally. You're gonna slag off a group to which I proudly belong so fuck it, might as well have a pop at someone who can take it. Go on. How does this run off on me or anyone other than the assholes personally responsible?

Did you know that crazy One Direction fans stalk the mothers of the band just in case the boys ever visit their parents and send real death threats to real people for the crime of going out with a member of a boyband that they happen to love?

Does that paint a very dark picture of current gamer culture of music culture, or does it rather just make individual crazy bitches look crazy?

It represents "you and other gamers" because the "gamer culture" gets dominated by a small but ultra vocal minority which taints the rest of us by their bullshit. Whether you are the part of the asshat crowd or not you get lumped in. Like music fans, movie fans, book fans or whichever medium you wish to apply it happens. It's very stupid and its terrible and the people who say stuff like that should be punished in the most severe way properly... they wont, but they should.

You want to not "lumped in" with these people, then ostracize them... loudly and publicly, the more you publicly shame and exclude these idiots, things will change for the better, albeit slowly (because nothing good comes quickly)

 

[Mikeyfell]

I love Bad Dragon.com

I don't use their products... I don't want to give you that impression, but they are impressive and it is a mindblowing experience to even know a site like that can exist. The way they show scale is by putting coke cans next to their dildos... Coke cans!

I can't wait for next week.

I know there was more said in this episode, but I still haven't processed it yet...
They said they would murder her children...Because she likes writing more than playing videogames...
THAT'S A GOOD THING! SHE'S A WRITER! You want her to like writing.

So yeah... Dragon Tongue Dildo... Can't wait.

 

[Something Amyss]

At least some good came out this sideshow though: Jim was able to get paid for making this video.

Not everyone has to be a loser, eh?

Jim will always be a winner in my book.

Still, I doubt Jim's running out of subject matter, so I'm not sure "needing to tel people the obvious after death threats" is a sufficient plus-side.

 

[Church185]

I've since addressed my OP, and while I've admitted that while this was very neatly set up in the same way as a dozen other 'preach to the choir' sessions, I was wrong on this one. Well, wrong on the content.

That first paragraph is still true, and Jim himself actually sort of proves my point with his mention of all the men that have gotten death threats but haven't inadvertantly caused a massive stink or gotten extra special attention or quit their jobs. Where was his backing of those guys? Like I said, better late then never, but the pattern doesn't suggest this would've happened had we been talking about John Hepler.

I saw the edit after I had posted my response, so good on you for giving the video a second chance.

I would like to point out that this wasn't originally a big story, since I believe the bulk of the threats happened years ago. The reason all of this is getting publicity now is because Polygon wrote an article about it (and about the men receiving threats) recently and news outlets are running with the story out of context. Hepler being harassed is old news, which kind of defeats your belief that all of this blew up because a woman was involved.

Calm thyself, and join the rest of us in hating (irony) on the people that get this worked up about a video game!

http://www.polygon.com/2013/8/15/4622252/plague-of-game-dev-harassment-erodes-industry-spurs-support-groups