Jimquisition: Integrity, Journalism, and Free PS4s

SirCannonFodder

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Aardvaarkman said:
SirCannonFodder said:
Because the purpose of a games reviewer is to provide (as unbiased as possible) advice on whether or not a game is worth buying. If the reviewer is beholden to the company whose games they are meant to be reviewing for the basic tools needed to do their job (such as the console they have been given as a "gift", or an early exclusive they need for readership, etc), then they have a vested interest in giving the game a positive review, meaning the reader has no way of knowing if the review is genuine or not.
How does getting a free PS4 make the reviewer beholden to Sony, and require them to give a positive review? And how is that any different to a chef getting free knives?
beholden
bɪˈhəʊld(ə)n/
adjective
adjective: beholden

1.
owing thanks or having a duty to someone in return for help or a service.

If a reviewer received a console free of charge from someone, and they now depend on that console to review games on (ie, to do their job), in what way are they not beholden to that person? And if that person is a games company they're reviewing games of, how would that not affect their opinion (either consciously or unconsciously)? And while yes, a chef would be beholden to a person giving them free knives, that wouldn't make any difference to their job, which is making food, not reviewing knives (well I suppose it could make a difference if they were also in charge of ordering the basic ingredients and they received the knives from some food company that they were then more inclined to order from).

Anyway, it's late, I'm tired, I'm pretty obviously not convincing you, you're not convincing me, so I'm out. Any replies to this will go unanswered, so feel free to get the last word in, if that's your kind of thing.
 

Dragonbums

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May 9, 2013
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Casual Shinji said:
Dragonbums said:
Perhaps the perception of them being gifts has A LOT more to do with the fact that Sony actually went out of their way to EMBLAZON their names on the PS4 in question as opposed to giving them a regular ass system.
Yeah, that's a bit on the show-off side for something that's just supposed to be a "review" unit. I feel it wrongfully celebrates the privileged position that reviewers are in.

But then 5% of those likely broke anyway. :p
I honestly want to believe they give big time reviewers the best consoles so they don't end up breaking. I'm not sure how much I believe that myself since that's going into tinfoil hat category.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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SirCannonFodder said:
And if they then return the review unit when they're done reviewing it (or dispose of it if returning it isn't practical), that's fine. Keeping it, such as with these PS4s, makes it a gift.
In this case, it makes it a tool.

Do you apply these ethical standards to other forms of review?
 

Dragonbums

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May 9, 2013
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puff ball said:
jim i hate to tell you this but i think you may have voided the warranty of your ps4. also may i ask why you were blacklisted by Konami and what that entails.
He made a Jimquisition video that basically outlined their complete and total incompetence as a video game company. One of those being that Jim offered to advertise their game for free since they couldn't even be assed to so much as do an online ad promo.

The only thing they LITERALLY had to do was give him the O-kay and they couldn't even do that right.


His harsh (and correct) criticism lead him to being blacklisted.
 

SirCannonFodder

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senordesol said:
SirCannonFodder said:
senordesol said:
SirCannonFodder said:
Aardvaarkman said:
SirCannonFodder said:
Perhaps you missed the "self-employed" part in their post? Regardless, in almost every other profession people either buy their tools or have them provided by their employers. Why should games journalism be any different? Unless the games companies providing them with games and consoles and flights are their employers?
Well, that makes it completely irrelevant, then. If you're self-employed, you pay for [strong]all[/strong] of your expenses, not just tools.

Do self-employed cooks even exist? the whole idea of being a cook is that you work for a kitchen, which is presumably owned by somebody else. If you owned the place you cook in, then you are a business owner, a restauranteur, or a chef - even if you do some cooking, that's not primarily what your stake is.
You're missing the point, in either case, the person doing the job either pays for their tools or has their employer pay for them. Why should games journalism be any different?
The servers that run the website are tools. The computers and software used to generate content for the website are tools. If a new system or application comes out; you don't have to buy it if you can't afford it, and what you do buy you must scrutinize heavily before purchasing -lest you be left with an inferior product (perhaps you will go to various review sites to make such a determination).

Games are not tools. They are review products.

Imagine if, as a self-employed person, you had to buy NOT ONLY the best in a line of new products that have just come out mere hours ago, but also the shittiest that no consumer in their right mind would touch within mere hours of their release. Every time, year-round.

There's the primary difference. That is why getting games for free is not 'bad jarnalizm'. Your site has to review every game when or before it comes out because, otherwise, it's old news and you won't get traffic.
And if they then return the review unit when they're done reviewing it, that's fine. Keeping it, such as with these PS4s, makes it a gift.
Why return the review unit? Most product reviewers of low-ticket items don't return the products sent to them; mainly because it's pain in the ass and would just get thrown away as 'used'.

Food critics don't vomit their meal back onto the plate. Book critics don't send back manuscripts publicists and authors send to them.
That's why I edited in "or dispose of it", eg donating the game to charity, throwing it out, etc. Review items kept become gifts, and this article [http://www.poynter.org/how-tos/career-development/ask-the-recruiter/78567/journalists-accepting-gifts/] gives a pretty good explanation of what should be done with gifts.
 

SirCannonFodder

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Zachary Amaranth said:
SirCannonFodder said:
And if they then return the review unit when they're done reviewing it (or dispose of it if returning it isn't practical), that's fine. Keeping it, such as with these PS4s, makes it a gift.
In this case, it makes it a tool.

Do you apply these ethical standards to other forms of review?
A tool which was given to them, free of charge, to keep forever. Not sure how that doesn't make it a gift. A very expensive gift, at that.
 

senordesol

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SirCannonFodder said:
If a reviewer received a console free of charge from someone, and they now depend on that console to review games on (ie, to do their job), in what way are they not beholden to that person? And if that person is a games company they're reviewing games of, how would that not affect their opinion (either consciously or unconsciously)? And while yes, a chef would be beholden to a person giving them free knives, that wouldn't make any difference to their job, which is making food, not reviewing knives (well I suppose it could make a difference if they were also in charge of ordering the basic ingredients and they received the knives from some food company that they were then more inclined to order from).

Anyway, it's late, I'm tired, I'm pretty obviously not convincing you, you're not convincing me, so I'm out. Any replies to this will go unanswered, so feel free to get the last word in, if that's your kind of thing.
What!?

No. Just...no. Think it through: just because I have a free console, what duty do I have to give it (or any of its products) a biased review?

They're not going to take it away. The worst that will happen is that I have to buy the next one in half a decade.

That's why I edited in "or dispose of it", eg donating the game to charity, throwing it out, etc. Review items kept become gifts, and this article gives a pretty good explanation of what should be done with gifts.
Incidental 'gifts' (i.e. flowers and a box of chocolate) along with the item are bad form, yes. But this has no bearing on the product itself. If the product sucks, I'm not going to want to have it around anyway.
 

Something Amyss

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SirCannonFodder said:
A tool which was given to them, free of charge, to keep forever. Not sure how that doesn't make it a gift. A very expensive gift, at that.
For review purposes. This is kind of important here. But you dodged my question.
 

Flames66

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Silentpony said:
I think it was that line that made me realize how unnecessary video game journalism is. I mean, are we seriously going to dozens and dozens of websites to get other peoples opinions on things that are subjective to taste?
The best way I have found is to find a small number of reviewers whose opinion you trust and stick with their reviews.

Also don't buy games or consoles at launch.

Also use sales.
 

Aardvaarkman

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SirCannonFodder said:
If a reviewer received a console free of charge from someone, and they now depend on that console to review games on (ie, to do their job), in what way are they not beholden to that person?
In every way? What exactly does the reviewer owe to Sony for getting the console for free? Are there contractual obligations that I'm not aware of?

The reviewer could simply give the console away and not review [strong]any[/strong] PS4 games. How does that serve Sony?

And if that person is a games company they're reviewing games of, how would that not affect their opinion (either consciously or unconsciously)? And while yes, a chef would be beholden to a person giving them free knives, that wouldn't make any difference to their job, which is making food, not reviewing knives
The reviewer's job is writing reviews, not serving Sony. How does a free PS4 affect that?

The main tools of the reviewer are critical insight, understanding, and writing skills. Just as the tools of a chef are the understanding of food, creativity, efficiency and taste.

Anyway, it's late, I'm tired, I'm pretty obviously not convincing you, you're not convincing me, so I'm out. Any replies to this will go unanswered, so feel free to get the last word in, if that's your kind of thing.
Always a classy argument: "I'm not going to respond anymore, but obviously it's [strong]you[/strong] who wants to get the last word in, not me, who literally declares my own argument to be the last word. For reasons."

EDIT: It appears that it wasn't your last word. Despite you being too tired to post anymore, you somehow found the strength to post after this.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Psycho11Edge said:
I don't see why this would be such an issue to anyone who is a gamer. A lot of people on here have already said a lot of great examples as to why this shouldn't be an issue, using other industries as reference. But still, this is ridiculous.

I'm not a game reviewer of any sort, nor do I want to be, because I don't like to push my opinion, subjective or objective, onto a product as not everyone feels the same way I do. I may like something, other may not. I may have thought something in the game wasn't done as well as it could have been, others may feel it was done well. And the idea of sitting through games I might not like or are complete crap doesn't appeal to me. Sure, every so often I might get a review copy of the next Elder Scrolls, and I play it, and I like it and write a review, but then the next thing I get is a review copy of something I don't like, such as the next Gears of War, and I would have to sit through that and play it to review it fairly, even though I wouldn't want to.

I'm glad there are people out there who will play as many games as they can so that they can tell us if the game is actually worth the money to buy it. I have made the mistake of buying terrible games, only to look up the reviews afterwards and finding that it scored lowly all around by many reviewers. I use reviews to help me decide on what games I might buy if they are of a new series I have never played or are the newest in a series that I have started to not like, and if the reviewers couldn't get a copy of these games to review because they had to buy every single one of them out of their own pocket, then I'm stuck with the risk of buying a shit game. That's not to say I rely on reviewers to make my decisions for me, I merely use them as a reference if I use them at all, I'm just happy to have them around so that they can help me to avoid wasting my $60 on Aliens: Colonial Marines or something.

Them getting free stuff before launch to do their job is absolutely okay to me, especially when they are trying to review day one titles before they come out, as I'm sure you don't want to go in buying your new PS4 and games only to find that the games you decided to buy weren't as good as you thought, and then maybe a week later the reviews come in saying they aren't really all that good.

Another reason I wouldn't want to be a reviewer is I have a bad habit of writing run-on sentences. Sorry about that to anyone reading this.

Well, I doubt many people read the huge post I threw out on the subject, but as I was saying the problem is institutional corruption, that is to say the entire system, and the way it works, is totally borked. The arguments being made only make sense if you accept a fundamentally poisonous practice to begin with.

At the end of the day the game industry wants reviews for games to come out before their release so they can get the press, and grab most of their profits off of a title more or less immediately after the game comes out. This also allows them to control the narrative to an extent as the copies of a game sent to reviewers ahead of time, might not be indicative of the final product being released. There have been many cases where we've been told something was different in a review copy, or that a review score was higher than it should have been because an error in the game was supposed to have been corrected by the final release version, and it never was. Ideally reviewers shouldn't be doing the reviews early, but at the same time the games come out, using the same exact version of the game that consumers are going to get. This will ultimately mean that most people would wind up waiting a few days after release for the reviews, and the industry will be forced to delay it's gratification and also have their product judged by what is actually there, on the market, as opposed to the various smoke and mirrors games that can be played under the current system.

I'd also argue that being a game reviewer should be a job like any other, as opposed to the pseudo-celebrity thing it is now, with people working out of their own homes living off of this kind of thing. That would solve a few of these problems. Right now the argument that a game reviewer can't afford all the games or hardware he needs to review and thus shouldn't be criticized for being "gifted" them only makes sense unless you consider that if this was like any other job he'd punch into an office, go to some soulless cubicle, rev up a console owned by his publisher, and play a game purchased by the publisher that it wants reviewed.

See, the problem right now with the gaming media is that the guys watch dogging the industry have become dependent on it. The reviewers rely on the company to provide them with games and hardware. The publishers have become dependent on the industry for advertising and revenues. This makes it increasingly hard to divide the critics from the group they are criticizing, which is why it's so noteworthy when particularly hard to get hardware if gifted to the reviewers individually. What's more it can be argued that this was just the reviewers Sony approved of (as critical as they might be) there are doubtlessly many reviewers that didn't get one (hey, I've written some off the cuff game reviews, and have been incredibly critical of games and the industry, nobody sent me a "Therumancer" engraved PS4!). On top of these these watchdogs who are generally "internet famous" at this level get invited to industry events, some of which seem to be pretty posh, where their favor is curried by the industry, things that most people can't attend (closed to the public) or afford to attend like say E3.

I covered this better in my last post. But my basic argument is that while I do not think every reviewer is corrupt, I do think the entire system is tainted, and calls even the good ones into question from time to time. Ideally I feel it would involve some belt tightening, but games reviewers and their publishers should maintain distance from the industry they comment on. A site based on game reviews should not sell ad space to video game producers, but instead generate revenue from other aspects of things like selling the ad space to snack food companies, hardware manufacturers, and the like even if this means less money. The reviewers themselves should also not be receiving gifts, justified as "professional tools" or not from the industry, something they need to remain separated from as they work. Ultimatly the publisher should wind up purchasing and providing the materials, and in many cases that means game reviewing becoming like a real job as opposed to the fairly sweet gig it is now (sure, game playing might not be as fun when it's your job and you have deadlines, but honestly it's bloody posh compared to the jobs most people do, when is the last time a game reviewer got his face stepped on by a couple of drunk hoodlums when backup during a shut off wasn't fast enough... or injured on badly repaired machinery... or any one of a dozen other things most people deal with), even if it is still pretty easy and probably shouldn't be that profitable as a result. Go to work at your publisher, head to a cubicle, use the company console and whatever game they purchased, and do the review there. I mean just working out of your home and not having to commute is bloody golden by the standards of most people. Under no circumstances should reviewers who are supposed to remain focused on the games as they are released be present during events like E3 or other major Expos, since the job is to be critical, not seduced by the best face put forward by the industry.

Of course I'm again rambling about ideals, what Jim is responding to is criticisms that this whole think reeked of corruption. It does... of course taken as things are, as opposed to how they should be, it's really no big deal because there are so many problems within the entire system. That said, the guys who got their PS4s could have been a bit classier about it, Jim and I both seem to agree that they brought it on themselves, deserving or not.
 

Soviet Heavy

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Integrity, Journalism, and Free PS4s

Days before the PlayStation 4 launched, Sony held a "review event" in New York, in which reviewers got to pick up their "free" consoles. Then they tweeted pictures of themselves with their PS4s. Then the Internet did its thing.

Watch Video
You were blacklisted by Konami? What's the story behind that?
 

weirdee

Swamp Weather Balloon Gas
Apr 11, 2011
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btw, is there some kind of record of why jim quit his previous job? i can't find a thing about it besides what i happen to see in these threads sometimes.
 

Psychobabble

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Aug 3, 2013
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Jimothy Sterling said:
sushkis2 said:
Am I the only one who thinks that Jim has lost quite a bit of weight since he first started his show?? Keep it up Jim.
Thank you! I've been taking steps to do so. Watching episodes from months ago is a shocker to me!
Congratulations Jim. Who knew evil and smugness burned so many calories. Kidding kidding gees! XD

Well I'm guessing you felt this episode needed to be said, but I personally don't understand what the fuss was about. Of course reviewers of any entertainment industry get free stuff, that's just how shit works. Why this came as a shock or even an outrage to some people is utterly beyond me. And let's face it, even if Jim bought all his games and game platforms, the conspiracy theory pricks would still claim any positive game review was payed for, because that's just how the INTERNET works.
 

seditary

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I feel there needs to be some standards and practices in Video Game Reviewing. There should be some third party organization that liaises between the reviewers and the game publishers so that direct pressure can't be applied upon the review process and so situations like Konami's blacklisting of Jim couldn't occur since then Konami would get blacklisted back by a large portion of the review community.

Something like that, I'm sure someone else can enunciate it better.
 

Sofus

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Maybe it's just me, bu isn't the PS4 rather... well, tiny? I thought the next gen consoles were supposed to be on par with pc's... so where did they fit the titan?
 

Amir Kondori

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Obviously they are getting the equipment they are going to review. The people who think that biases them are either idiots or don't understand how the system works.
 

Saltyk

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Sep 12, 2010
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This episode had to be made? People had to be told this? I... I...
Really!? That fact alone blows my mind. While I love reviewers like Angry Joe, I know he can't review every game, or even own every system, because he doesn't have infinite money (his Game Genie is broken, I guess). He even stated a while back that he didn't do PS3 reviews as he lacked a PS3 due to funds.

I certainly wouldn't expect this of Jim or any other journalist. Joe reviews games because he wants to. But for Jim it's a job which pays his bills. I can't believe anyone thinks reviewers should have to pay for their games.

I'm sorry, Jim. Also, Thank God for Jim!

And I don't blame you for licking it. The PS4 is a damn sexy machine. Just look at it. Look at it and be seduced.