Jimquisition: Lazy, Boring, Ordinary, Art Games

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

(Also, please talk about Silent Hill more. I just like hearing it said. The re-releases are shaping up to be shit and I have no reason to have any hopes for Downpour, so just hearing people talk about Silent Hill fondly makes me feel like the franchise is still alive...somehow...)

Well, Jim did give a pretty positive review to Silent Hill: Downpour. *Hides his overpouring glee*

[link]http://www.destructoid.com/review-silent-hill-downpour-222794.phtml#ext[/link]

Well, damn! After everything I'd been hearing, it sounded like it was going to be nothing more than an attempt to copy the success of Heavy Rain and various sandbox RPGs (seriously, a massive open world with sidequests? And quick-time events? And what was with that ridiculous KORN song? And where is my Akira Yamaoka?!)...But now I have hope again.

Still going to wait and see what Yahtzee says. I don't trust anyone other than Jim and Yahtzee when it comes to reviewing Silent Hill games. If they both agree that it's worth playing, I'll gladly pick it up.

 

[T3hSource]

Thank you for pointing out why I avoid these kinds of games in general,but I guess one time I have to give one of those "pretentious arty" games a chance.Until then I'll call Serous Sam genocide a work of art.

 

[Bostur]

I get the same feeling as Jim sometimes, but I also think 'artsy' games should be given a bit of slack. Art needs some room to fuck around sometimes, to experiment with the medium and that often result in experiences that are lacking in some ways.

Exactly how much or how little interactivity entertainment software should have can be a hard balance to get right. My use of the term 'entertainment software' is deliberate, because who is to say that non-productive software needs to be games?
Still Jim's points are valid, in an interactive medium the audience do need something to do, or it would have been better presented as a movie or book.

Some mainstream titles suffer from the same issues, moving the player between set pieces and offering little in the way of player initiative. I find that much more lacking in an expensive production that is primarily designed as a game.

 

[MB202]

Dammit Jim, it's because of what you said that most people HATE it when games try to be meaningful and intellectual, and it is because of THAT the the brain-dead idiots that make up most of the Internet keep holding the medium back by saying games that are also "art" can't be fun!

That said, I realize that what you're saying is that games that are supposed to be "artistic" or have "art" as one of their selling points can be just as bland and one-dimensional as an given FPS game, and I can totally understand that point of view. But do you think the people I mentioned earlier are going to realize that?

 

[Findlebob]

Can anyone tell me what the scene at 2 19 is off?

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

Dammit Jim, it's because of what you said that most people HATE it when games try to be meaningful and intellectual

Nope. People hate it when games PRETEND to be meaningful and intellectual.

 

[DustyDrB]

Huh, and from gameplay videos I've seen, I thought there seemed like there was too little to Journey. I've not heard of Dear Esther, but it has even less to it? Yeesh.

I thought devs were more trying to tap into the audience of gamers who just love pure exploration in games. Not being that at all, those games just do not appeal to me. But then you have people like David Cage who are so transparent in their motivations. They wish they were film-makers and view gameplay as a thing the medium should grow out of. And I actively wish failure upon them.

 

[MonkeyPunch]

I completely agree. "Games" like Dear Esther are just rolling demos. There is no game per se.
It would have better suited a short movie or something of the ilk.
Another point I think is important are that "games" that don't actually let you do anything in-game are putting all their eggs in one basket. What if I happen just not to like/be interested in the story - as well as it might be written. I just happen not to "click" with it. Then what?
Nowt to do. See with games like Just Cause 2 (just for example) if I don't care for the story (quite likely) then I still have the entire game world to mess about in and stuff to do. It's not a complete waste of my money.

I always think of old 3D Amiga demos where you could move about in an environment to look at the rotating objects from different angles. They were (rightly) not considered games either.

The other thing that has annoyed me recently, is that people think that only these types of "art games" are possible of being meaningful in some way. Is it that, or is it that these games have nothing else than that to rely on?
To me that whole premise is baloney anyway. What stops an actual game (something interactive) being as meaningful as something which isn't interactive?

Also, "Go back to Call Of Duty" has to now be the lamest, most brain dead response possible.
To me people that say that are basically saying "I've lost the argument, I can't think of anything else, here's a canned line I shall spout to try and save face."

 

[MB202]

Dammit Jim, it's because of what you said that most people HATE it when games try to be meaningful and intellectual

Nope. People hate it when games PRETEND to be meaningful and intellectual.

Well, yeah, there's that... But some people can't tell the difference.

 

[Scrustle]

Those criticisms would be valid if Dear Esther was actually a game, but it's not.

 

[beetrain]

Can anyone tell me what the scene at 2 19 is off?

Cadbury's Mini Egg ad.
No idea why it was there. Jim is too deep for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8kCF_9Uns

 

[Alfador_VII]

I agree with this show basically.

I like it how he's talking about game worlds that make you feel like a welcome guest as he shows Limbo. That game world HATES you and will kill you many times Great game though, and very artistic.

The Stanley Parable. There's an artgame that does stuff with the medium - playing on the inherent obedience and helplessness of game-players. Well worth a couple of hours of your time.

Also, yes to this so much, a free HL2 mod, with enough interaction to be a game, and varied routes through it to different endings.

 

[Cenobite85]

Dear Esther looked really interesating and something I'd want to try, but having nothing to do does turn me off.

I admit I loved The Path - for some reason the minimal interactivity and strange creepy atmosphere really clicked with me and I liked how you could have the story 'play out' with horrible things happening. That said I regret playing Tale of Tales follow up Fatale which really was what Jim said - a linear vauge story that you have no control over.

 

[Artemicion]

Jim, if you could be any more full of yourself, I'd have to marry you.
I'm not sure what that really means. It's an artistic statement.

Anyhoo, I was sort of interested in Dear Esther, but I think I too would just be bored to sleep by it. Thanks for the warning!

 

[sinn3r]

Me thinks the first Bioshock had more 'storytelling' in those little scenes it had build along the way than most games, including Dear Esther. Hell Bioshock (the first) could be an art game. I think the subtraction of the splicer combat (or transformation to somehting like Amnesia) would not do the any harm.

I am kinda sorry for them, they take all the beating now, but it'll be forgotten in a few weeks anyway.

 

[scorptatious]

Journey is already out? That game did look rather interesting. I think I'll try it out soon.

 

[beetrain]

Those were some good points.
I think one of my favorite games, Yume Nikki, might lean more towards being a less interactive game that does nothing but give you a weird world to look at (and stab things if you want), but oh well, I still like it.

 

[Piorn]

Even though I agree with his statements, I really liked the Path, because it let me take a break from all the "excitement" and "action" of other games. Sometimes I just want to play a game where nothing is at stake, where I can just sit back and enjoy the athmosphere.