Jimquisition: On-Disc DLC Cannot Be Justified

[Headdrivehardscrew]

Last time I checked Mr. Bleszinski had to rely on getting paid by ye evil publishers until he comes up with something less restraining, so I take his utterings RE: DLC at the face value of, say, five grains of salt and a cup of spittle.

I think I understand the business model of smurfberries and other in-game purchases. I can't quite bring myself to like it, though. As has been discusses earlier, on here and elsewhere: If DLC is additional content adding to an otherwise complete game as some mini sequel or another complete mission or another case to solve - hey, that might actually be fun and registers as good use of the powerful infrastructure we consumers have for gaming purposes.

I got all the additional DLC to both Fallout 3 and New Vegas, and, all technical issues aside, I really did enjoy that trip to the wild side. Some bits are just unforgettable. In fact, I could have done with some more. With most other games I tend to accept the fact that 'complete' editions come out some months after an original release, so I got some GOTY editions even though, in some cases, I got weak prematurely and bought the original, 'lacking' edition. In a way, it's the same (mal)practices we got to love in, say, DVD movie sales. Release 1: just the movie you wanted, t'a. Release 2: Oh, yeah, the first one was cut to lower the rating (to up the sales)... so, get the unrated release, please. t'a. Release 3: Oh, about that unrated cut... yeah, there were some bits missing, sorry 'bout that. Here, have the Director's Cut. It's even got commentary and stuff. etc... etc... etc...

I have no udder but I feel milked.

As long as I still have the option of selling the original copy to someone who doesn't crave much for the additional content, and doesn't get punished by having to buy a so-called 'online pass', I don't mind much of the general asshattery going on. I just think it's bad style and stinks... and it actually creates customer dissatisfaction and pushes piracy, in the end. "Never bite that hand that feeds you", yet the industry keeps nibbling and niggling all the same.

Thing is, with all the patching and DLC bonanza going on, you just know all our modern games come with an expiration date. And that's what made me go back to the simple joys of old cartridge-based gaming. Plug in, turn on, tune in, enjoy.

Having an artificial product fragmentation just for the sake of milking it can only mean one thing, really, and that's not to groan and moan about it, but just not to buy it.

I am looking forward to the next Tekken and hope they remain strong and resist temptation. Street Fighter, as it stands, it pretty much dead to me.

 

[hermes]

Obviously, the solution is to leave it off the disc and force everyone to download it, thereby eating up more bandwidth and hard drive space on consoles.

Or, you know, crazy idea, sell the game with everything unlocked and advertise the shit out of the idea that they aren't screwing you over by charging extra for stuff they already shipped.

That is some crazy idea. Specially because Capcom already advertise the shit out of the idea that SFxT was final and there wouldn't be a vanilla version soon down the line.

I think Jim is missing the point here. DLC is here to stay, and its not a bad thing. It provides with extra life to a game, sometimes even months after release and its a better way to stop piracy and used sales than most DRM measures. The point he is trying to make (that on disc DLC shouldn't be a problem to consumers only because developers decided to include it) is akin to saying "having lag is not justifiable as a problem, because nobody forced you to include online in your game".

The problem is that Capcom's "PR reasoning" about how to have it locked on disk is the same as other ways to distribute it, is insulting to my intelligence. It sounds like an excuse or a justification more than an explanation. I can deal with technical explanations about compatibility issues, bandwidth or size of updates. I can't deal with the excuse that its the only way to do it. If you prefer to, tell me its the only way YOU find out about how to solve it; but don't sell me a patch to a problem as if it were a feature...

And that without even counting Azura's Wrath issue, which is just unjustifiable greed.

 

[bobmus]

What's the game featured at 3:19 in, when he's talking about F2P games? It's an FPS, and I'd be very interested in finding out which one, especially if it is Free-To-Play.
Thanks.

 

[hermes]

Okay, so, someone may need to clarify something for me. Is the entire "From Ashes" DLC from Mass Effect 3 "on disk dlc?" As in, was all the content for it on the disk? If it was, then in that case I would agree with Jim.

However, from what I heard concerning the entire "From Ashes" dlc was that Bioware developed it while the game was being shipped and then added some compatibility on the disk. I remember having to actually physically download the expansion and install the dlc, I don't THINK it was already on the disk, but I'm not too sure. If this is true, then I don't really have a problem with it. If Bioware chose to make new content while waiting for it to be shipped, then I just don't really understand what the complaint is, it isn't "locking off" any of the games actual content, it's just something extra.

No, its not about "From Ashes". That DLC was planned during the development of the game, but it was not included on the disc. It was proper "downloadable content" (some people have a problem with it being ready at the same time as the retail game, but that is another issue. Officially, the retail disc didn't have the content).

This is about games like SFxT, SC 4 or SF4, where features (in this case characters and costumes) where developed and included into the retail game, but locked behind a "downloadable key". The reasoning behind the complain is that we shouldn't be charged extra for something that is fully functional inside the disc we already bought.

 

[AetherWolf]

Okay, so, someone may need to clarify something for me. Is the entire "From Ashes" DLC from Mass Effect 3 "on disk dlc?" As in, was all the content for it on the disk? If it was, then in that case I would agree with Jim.

However, from what I heard concerning the entire "From Ashes" dlc was that Bioware developed it while the game was being shipped and then added some compatibility on the disk. I remember having to actually physically download the expansion and install the dlc, I don't THINK it was already on the disk, but I'm not too sure. If this is true, then I don't really have a problem with it. If Bioware chose to make new content while waiting for it to be shipped, then I just don't really understand what the complaint is, it isn't "locking off" any of the games actual content, it's just something extra.

No, its not about "From Ashes". That DLC was planned during the development of the game, but it was not included on the disc. It was proper "downloadable content" (some people have a problem with it being ready at the same time as the retail game, but that is another issue. Officially, the retail disc didn't have the content).

Actually, it was included on the disc. This video shows you:

 

[link6616]

On Disc DLC can still be called DLC...

It just doesn't Mean DownLoadable Content

It's Disk Locked Content.

 

[Dastardly]

On-Disc DLC Cannot Be Justified

There are explanations for games that ship with downloadable content already included. There are, however, no excuses. While you may have a reason, you do not have validation, because on-disc DLC is a problem willingly created by the industry, and it doesn't have to exist in the first place. You cannot justify a problem arranged by design, no matter how much you try and pretend it's out of your hands.

This week, the Jimquisition takes on one of this generation's growing aggravations, and you won't even get charged for it.

Watch Video

Remember how Goldeneye for the N64 had all of the cheats included with the game? And remember how some of those same cheats were offered as preorder bonuses for the Wii remake? There you have a clear-cut example of someone actually removing content from the original game, selling it again at a higher price, and gating the removed content in some way (in this case, behind a preorder).

 

[Lugbzurg]

I can think of at least one way it can be justified.

They didn't quite finish some content. So, part of it is on the disk. The rest doesn't exist, just yet. Imagine if Banjo-Kazooie had been released within this generation. I'd imagine Stop 'N' Swop would have been on-disk downloadable content.

 

[SageRuffin]

There's a big part that almost everybody is missing from their arguments (a few really, but to save time I won't go into everything).

We'll use SFxT like the video did. If the extra characters and such were already included within the core game itself, why can't we get the various items by simply fulfilling certain criteria within the core game? Instead, it's locked behind "keys" that you have to play and extra couple of dollars for, and if you don't feel like doing that then you're assed out.

KoF XIII kinda did it right, barring NESTS-style Kyo Kusunagi and Classic Iori Yagami. We'll look at Billy Kane, Saiki, Ash Crimson, and everything else there is to unlock in the game. TO do so, you simply need to do certain actions, like the old days. BUT, if you feel so inclined, you drop a few dollars and everything is available without you having to, say, grind out the 40 matches needed to unlock all of a character's color swatches.

Capcom also fucked up by revealing that the PSV would be getting all 12 extra characters when it drops later this year, which is always a big no-no (they're doing the same shit with MvC3 by adding a replay mode and visible hit-boxes). Now everyone's wondering "why does the inferior system get more, better goodies later down the line?" Cue the seething hatred towards Capcom we have today.

Then again... Capcom have been fucking up for while. This really shouldn't be too surprising.

 

[SageRuffin]

I can think of at least one way it can be justified.

They didn't quite finish some content. So, part of it is on the disk. The rest doesn't exist, just yet.

The problem with that argument, at least in the case of SFxT, is that minus some sound files I think, the characters are fully functional. There are videos on YouTube of people taking the extra characters and putting in work with them.

So, in Capcom's case at least, there's no excuse for this.

 

[The Great JT]

We are not worthy of you, Jim Sterling!

 

[Bostur]

Extra Credits makes an interesting counterpoint.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/mass-effect-3-dlc

Paraphrasing one of ECs counterpoint:
Publishers needs to get DLCs out quickly before people lose interest in the games.

I get that argument, but just as Jim argues in his video I think this is a symptom of a problem the publishers caused themselves. First of all they sometimes makes games that deliberately have a very short life-span, I assume so that they can sell more games overall. If games were designed with greater longevity this wouldn't be as much of an issue. This also ties into the issue about second hand games, publishers wants us to consume more so they deliver less, but they don't want the negative consequences that follow.

My second counterpoint is that DLCs could actually be used to prolong the lifespan of a game, by adding extra playable content like expansion packs. But publishers are moving away from that strategy.

It really does feel like they want to have their cake and eat it too, and will go to any length to try to suck as much money out of a franchise as possible.

 

[duck-man]

Thanks for the video Jim! (And thank God for Jim)
Given that a game has extra, completed content by the time a game is released then I'd prefer that it's on the disc.
I was a little confused by the focus of Jim's arguments, but I think it was on the real problem: whether or not developers should/must then charge us for it.

 

[Melnordan]

First up I want to say that I love the show. This is a great program and I watch it every week

BUT

Every time I go to watch it I get the song from History of the world part one stuck in my head. Here let me share it with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyQjiXSlU_w

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

I really hope he releases Bikini Jim Sterling as DLC.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

I've watched a few episodes of Jimquisition now and I wish that I could enjoy the segment cause I really agree with a lot of the opinions expressed,I just can't stand the presentation.

 

[TK421]

I don't think that I have ever agreed with anyone more than I agree with Jim on this day. On-disc dlc is trash, and bullcrap. I hope every single on-disc dlc is hacked, and the publishers make no money out of it whatsoever.

 

[Trishbot]

On-disc DLC is so wrong.

Damn, every time I say "remember when you unlocked characters, stages, and secrets by PLAYING the game?" I feel a bit older.

 

[tehweave]

The gaming industry and the world is run by money. It sucks but it's true. If we don't want DLC to happen, don't buy it. If a game is sold almost entirely on DLC, and you don't like that, don't buy it.

As much as it seems like it isn't true, the industry is controlled by the consumer. We buy item A, they're going to sell more things like item A. We buy DLC, they're going to make more. It's an effective marketing strategy and they'll keep doing it if we keep buying into it.

The only way to stop on-disc-dlc is to not buy the game. The industry will learn and stop doing what doesn't make them money.

 

[daxterx2005]

Cliffy B is one of those zombies from Resident Evil zero?