Jimquisition: PS4 - Doing Nothing, Meaning Everything

Jimothy Sterling

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PS4 - Doing Nothing, Meaning Everything

Sony created a magic moment this past week at E3, declaring for the world that PS4 would not restrict used games or utilize DRM. Power to the people!

Watch Video
 

Canadamus Prime

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Yes, how sad it is that Sony just has to say that they'll do things that have been done for years and get lauded for it. Those things should go without saying.
 

thanatos388

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While you can still share disc based games you cannot game share and sony will most definitely move in a more digital centered market in the near future.
 

Racecarlock

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I also liked sony's approach to indie games. Most of my time has been spent on XBLA indie games, and so it's good to see sony so righteously embracing them. Solar 2, From Dust, Blood Dragon, these games are awesome and I'm glad to see sony facilitating the production of more of them.

Plus, no DRM. Sorry microsoft, you lose. Although I'm still also getting an ouya purely because it's guaranteed to have freeware on it, being an open source console.
 

Big_Isaac

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what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
 

MichaelMaverick

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People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
 

Rainboq

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
Why would they? If they get the install base that it looks like they're going to get, leaving the policies in place, while focusing on ramping up the PSN marketplace would net them a lot more cash than turning around and screwing over the consumer. It would make no sense for them to do that.

OT: Its really surprising to see just how thoroughly Microsoft has screwed this up on a PR level. Policies aside, they announced things in the worst way possible, especially in the clusterfuck after they announced their console.
 

GAunderrated

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
Well it wouldn't be the first time they did that but right now there is no evidence to support that claim so it is irrelevant.

I don't praise the Ps4 for doing nothing but at the same time they are the more appealing of the two choices (already have Wii U).

Also glad to see Jim mention Microsoft's true intentions, and that is they are declaring war on consumers.

Sadly enough some gamers still desperately try to defend their actions with what I could only assume to be a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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By the title I knew He'd call PS4 on it's lack of "change", and i agree, it is sad that doing something a company should do like treating the customer with respect. It is sad but that probably makes it all the more good.
 

Marohen

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Exceptional articulation of the Sony's reveal of support for used games.

The realization that this announcement--with all its praise--is really a celebration of the status quo is something I'm certain came to just about everyone's mind, and exploring why this inaction is deserving of such high regard is exactly the right angle to go from.
 

Deadcyde

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
probably true, but they have been spanked pretty hard in the past for being dick holes. Maybe they've figured out they need to be jerks in small manageable doses instead of huge clusterfucks like the xbone and Diablo 3

wait... diablo 3 is coming to ps4 and it's an always online game right?



fucking son of a *****.
 

Andy of Comix Inc

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GAunderrated said:
Sadly enough some gamers still desperately try to defend their actions with what I could only assume to be a severe case of Stockholm Syndrome.
What's that saying? Don't attribute to malice what can be equally attributed to stupidity.

Or, in this case, don't assume mental psychosis when they really could just be utter morons. "Stockholm Syndrome"... yeah, nah, they just have poor problem solving skills or something.
 

Realitycrash

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Rainboq said:
MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
Why would they? If they get the install base that it looks like they're going to get, leaving the policies in place, while focusing on ramping up the PSN marketplace would net them a lot more cash than turning around and screwing over the consumer. It would make no sense for them to do that.
Maybe because people have already bought a PS4 by then and are reluctant to change just because policies change. It wouldn't surprise me if they caved to the pressure, no.


Still, this is worthy of celebration. Kudos, Sony.
 

themilo504

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I already own a super pc so I?m probably not going to get a ps4 until it becomes cheaper.

Despite that I really hope the playstation 4 beats the xbox one, I don?t expect the xbox one to fail but I don?t expect it to beat the play station 4.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
I love how defense for Microsoft has now devolved from justifying there terrible practices to trying to convince everybody that Sony will be just as bad at some fixed date. It's like "hey guys I know candidate A is going to make cutting off hands mandatory but vote for him anyways because even though candidate B is promising free puppies instead I think he'll eventually come on board to beheadings". Well you know what even if that's true (and I think that's more of a wishful assumption or overt cynisism) I'll take the two years of puppies to an immediate beheading any day of the week.
 

Ipsen

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canadamus_prime said:
Yes, how sad it is that Sony just has to say that they'll do things that have been done for years and get lauded for it. Those things should go without saying.
While sad, it's still pretty poignant on my decision between the next generation of consoles, since it preserves what I'm still unsure Sony realizes they are; gaming tradition/precedence/history. I think this is one medium where technology CAN overstep it's bounds. People want to just play games, on a controller with simple button layouts. Other entertainment mediums are great, but they don't have a part to play in the video game entertainment genre.

I find it important to separate my entertainment mediums as well; I find I get bored of my iphone, having what I need, games, Netflix AND HBO GO, but enjoy each separately on other 'consoles' (as in, including PC). There IS such a thing as too much through one medium, I'll believe. Then again, this is myself; YMMV.

EDIT: New thought: 'Status quo' has been mentioned in the thread now, and I think it should be said that Sony not breaking that actually helps, since it at least puts them in a position, if not to better listen to core gamers, at least sounds like they have heard their concerns; Video game corporations have had a great* track record of listening to core gamers.

MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
Also worried about this, since they did pull Other OS from PS3, which pissed me off to the moon.

*:Read: A gradual process to complete ignorance.
 

Something Amyss

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canadamus_prime said:
Yes, how sad it is that Sony just has to say that they'll do things that have been done for years and get lauded for it. Those things should go without saying.
and, at the same time, when the other half of the coin has decided to go balls-out on the restrictions, simply upholding the status quo IS serious business.

Racecarlock said:
Plus, no DRM.
No additional DRM. There's a big difference there.
 

hentropy

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"Or just buy a gaming PC and have an awesome life."

That's basically what I was thinking the whole episode.
 

Frezzato

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Deadcyde said:
wait... diablo 3 is coming to ps4 and it's an always online game right?
They've already announced that the console versions can be played offline. Except perhaps Xbox One, which is a murky, gray area considering it will require a connection in order to run.

At this point I'd like to see Blizzard drop the DRM for PC, but I doubt that's gonna happen.
 

doggy go 7

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"that will not do" is that a pink floyd reference I see before me?
49 seconds in
 

st0pnsw0p

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
If you don't trust Sony, that's absolutely fine by me, but don't act as if there's some sort of proof to back up your mistrust and that we're all daft for thinking otherwise.
 

gphjr14

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What's funny is I was planning on getting the next Xbox solely because I was tired of getting DLC late because Microsoft paid developers to fuck over anyone who didn't buy their version of a game.

Will all this bad press and the fact that the PS4 is reasonably priced maybe Microsoft will know what its like to get fucked over except they'll have no one to blame but themselves.
 

JSW

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"Microsoft has declared war on the consumer."

They've been at war for the last twenty years. It's nice that the general population is finally starting to notice, but this is SOP for Microsoft: Pump money into a new product until they've driven out the competition, then once the consumers have no choice they squeeze them for all they're worth. Only difference is that they got impatient this time and forgot that Sony's not out of the game yet.
 

Bindal

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Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
What's there to say? It is one or the two most effective solutions.
Either give people a reason to keep their games (like when they are good)
Or give people a reason to buy new over used (NOT punishing buying used games)
 

TheBestPieEver

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I know the tune of that song that Jim was humming but I don't know the name...
On the other hand, the fact that Sony hasn't done anything is the same reason why I don't see the need to upgrade to next gen consoles.
 

PoolCleaningRobot

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What else could Sony have added though? The specs look good, they put in game capture, they're ramping up their market place, what else do we need? Microsoft's cloud sharing thing is neat but it's obvious it has too many drawbacks, or should they have gone the Nintendo rout and made the console centered on a weird new controller?

I'd rather them do what they're doing now than add some shitty invasive feature for the sake of "innovation"
 
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Freaky Constantina!

YEAH YEAH!

[sub]yo motherfucka![/sub]

...

Oh, and good video, I guess. Could have used more mesh tank-tops, though.

It's also kind of a shame that gaming has gotten to the point where Sony says it won't completely dick people over, and everyone cheers. That's videogames now.
 

Norrdicus

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Loki_The_Good said:
MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
I love how defense for Microsoft has now devolved from justifying there terrible practices to trying to convince everybody that Sony will be just as bad at some fixed date.
"I'm not going to hell alone, I'M TAKING YOU ALL WITH ME!"
 

Banzaiman

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This, this is what I've been trying to think of but for some reason couldn't find the words. True, Sony did nothing new or revolutionary yet they were applauded anyway. They did nothing new and shouldn't really be applauded in a normal market. That doesn't make Microsoft good for trotting out their console the way they did, and it doesn't make the Xbone better.

Of course, that's probably been said elsewhere, but Mr Sterling has a way of grabbing my attention...

EDIT: There's also another point in that ruler analogy that Mr Sterling used in the video. If Sony is the king that sits on his throne and does nothing, Microsoft is the tyrant next door who oppresses his own people for the crime of living in his kingdom. Sure it might look pretty and there might be some good things to water it down, but I'd take indifference over oppression any day.
 

empirialtank

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Congratulations Jim you now understand how conservatives feel about most politics. A lack of progress is preferable to getting screwed up the arse.

OT: I really hope that Sony does stay true to the promises they made at E3, if they do i see this being a rather good console generation for them. But the eternal pessimist in me is saying that all good things will come to an end and eventually Sony is going to turn on us. Probably through some terrible all digital distribution system.

But for now all well and let us enjoy this brief time when it seemed like someone in the game industry was actually listening to the consumers.
 

Shdwrnr

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Does nobody remember the last time Sony promised a feature that people got really excited about? How are those Linux PS3's doing now anyway?
 

Jman1236

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I think sony while doing the right thing also knew that they would risk third-party support, what's to say EA or Ubisoft wouldn't make there titles exclusive to the xbox one just to give the middle finger to consumers. However at the end of the day it will be the size of sony's bank account compared to microsoft's that will make third-party decide to release on a restriction based platform that only the super rich own and alienate there fans or do we go multiplatform and make everyone happy?
 

Gorrath

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I laregely disagree. If a company, despite the pressure of publishes and their competition, keeps things the same and doesn't dick over their customers, they become very worthy of praise. The whole idea that they 'did nothing' isn't actually true anyway. What they did was release an updated product with greater support for things that we like while avioding adding anything (except possible PS + requirement for multiplayer) that we didn't like. Sony 'doing nothing' would be them not releasing a new product at all and simply saying that if you don't like Xbone, buy a PS3 instead. That would have been 'doing nothing' and that would not have been worthy of priase.

And as you said Jim, this had to be a difficult descision. The fact that they made the right descision despite the pressure is absolutely worth the accolades they are getting. A big part of this stems from our relief. Those of us that count gaming as a core hobby likely felt that we would buy one of the new consoles no matter what draconian things it included. We worried that Sony would follow suit to Microsoft and play the same game (as we've seen so many other industries indirectly collude to do). And if they had done that, we'd have been arguing which one was trying to screw us worse and pick the lesser of two evils. Now, we don't have to. The apocalypse has been canceled because we've been given a way out. Thank God for Jim and thank Thor for Sony.
 

conmag9

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
And the moment they do, they'll get the same enraged response. Worse, perhaps, as it would smell strongly of "betrayal", since Sony will be percieved as the good guys of this generation by virtue of not being evil imbeciles.

Until that hypothetical time arrives...*raises a glass to Sony*
 

RandV80

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thanatos388 said:
While you can still share disc based games you cannot game share and sony will most definitely move in a more digital centered market in the near future.
You mean like the Microsoft's 10 family member thingy?

I don't know about that, if you interpret their system in the most gamer friendly manner popular then you would have a system that does far more damage to the publishers than used games ever could. Microsoft wouldn't give the publishers such a big bone only to take them behind the shed and shoot em.

Fundamentally though, I would say the system their implementing has everything to do with disc based game sharing. Unlike Steam which is more for personal use, the Xbox One will typically sit in the living room and for larger households be a family device. If little Timmy has an Xbox live account and little brother Jimmy also has his own, it would be suicide for MS to suggest the parents need to buy two 'licenses' of a game so they can both play.

That's what needs to be preserved here. If Sony doesn't have this for their digital purchases and you need that functionality, then you can just buy the retail copy.
 

kajinking

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CrossLOPER said:
I think the truth is far darker....
(snip)
Good God that article makes this E3 look like the climax of a spy movie when the bad guy realizes the good guy swapped out the control pad suitcase for a bomb suitcase. This just gets more and more interesting, and I am perfectly ok with that even as a happy 360 owner.
 

Falseprophet

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Microsoft set fire to their own house, all Sony has to do is sit back and fan the flames. The Xbone has even pissed off members of the US military! http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030/New-Xbox-sin-against-all-service-members-
 

Don Dorscha

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Realitycrash said:
Rainboq said:
MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
Why would they? If they get the install base that it looks like they're going to get, leaving the policies in place, while focusing on ramping up the PSN marketplace would net them a lot more cash than turning around and screwing over the consumer. It would make no sense for them to do that.
Maybe because people have already bought a PS4 by then and are reluctant to change just because policies change. It wouldn't surprise me if they caved to the pressure, no.


Still, this is worthy of celebration. Kudos, Sony.
Sony 'pulling a 180' is incredibly unlikely unless there are some serious market shifts in the next couple of months. This is because, as things stand now, there is a clear winner in the minds of the majority of gamers. Much like the days of the PS2 vs. the Xbox, Sony is in the driver's seat. Very few game studios could afford to release an Xbox exclusive game simply because a far larger chunk of the market owned a PS2 and didn't own an Xbox so releasing a game for the Xbox and not the PS2 meant that you would get significantly less sales, and hence make significantly less money than you would have if you released a PS2 version of your game.

If things continue as they are, and the PS4 remains the clear victor that it is today, the same will be true of the market. Add the shockingly inflated costs of development of AAA titles into the mix and suddenly you find that those titles literally cannot afford to not release a PS4 version because the reduction in sales means that they may actually lose money on the deal. So what 'pressure' are they going to cave to? If EA says "Hey Sony, put in some built-in DRM and restrict used game sales or we won't release games on your system anymore!" Sony can just shrug it off as the empty threat that it is. They won't be able to AFFORD to not release games for the PS4.
 

Xman490

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Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
Besides the Smash Bros Wii U and 3DS newcomers, people haven't talked much about the Nintendo Direct. Even that quote hasn't gotten very much attention.

I guess I share this apathy towards Nintendo, though the games with Mario in them look good, despite being fancy tip-toes instead of leaps of innovation. I'll probably get a Wii U later this generation after getting a PS4 at or near launch.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Zachary Amaranth said:
canadamus_prime said:
Yes, how sad it is that Sony just has to say that they'll do things that have been done for years and get lauded for it. Those things should go without saying.
and, at the same time, when the other half of the coin has decided to go balls-out on the restrictions, simply upholding the status quo IS serious business.

Racecarlock said:
Plus, no DRM.
No additional DRM. There's a big difference there.
I'd equate this to a Slave Master promising not to use the whips today. Have we become so used to the abuse that not being abused has become cause for celebration?
 

Andy Shandy

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YEAH YEAH!

Time to get out the mesh tank-tops.

But yes, I do find it somewhat sad that we celebrate Sony doing nothing, but when it's against Microsoft seemingly doing everything wrong, you bet your ass I'll take it.
 

Norrdicus

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canadamus_prime said:
I'd equate this to a Slave Master promising not to use the whips today. Have we become so used to the abuse that not being abused has become cause for celebration?
No, horrible analogy, try again. Slaves do not get to choose their masters
 

Not Lord Atkin

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The most important thing I took away form Sony's E3 conference is apart from everything Jack Tretton said.

To me, it's the simple fact that Sony knew what was happening. That they saw the opportunity to strike the fatal blow to Microsoft and used it. It shows that Sony is reading the news. It means that they know what is happening around them and act accordingly.

Sure, if you're a sceptical person you can see it as nothing more than a little scheme, a publicity stunt designed to win people over. Sony might just be telling us what we want to hear for all we know. But that's kind of the thing. Just the fact that they actually KNOW what we want to hear for a change. That they know just what the fuck they are doing. In an industry lead by a bunch of clueless men in suits who barely know what games are, let alone pay attention to the people who play them, this is kind of a big deal.

Not to mention that when given a choice, I'm always going to go with the company that knows its ass from its elbows.
 

IKWerewolf

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Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
True through and through, if you make a game you can play over and over again and never get old then you are less likely to give the game away, if a player is kept fed in high quality DLC then they will buy high quality DLC. More importantly, if everyone is keeping their copy of a game, there is no used games market because there would be no trade-ins occurring.

Snarky remark in your opinion but true none the less.
 

OuendanCyrus

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Everything regarding the xbox one has just been one massive puzzle box, I've never seen so many different questions, theories and answers regarding a single console before. Microsoft has spun so many webs and have been giving vague answers to questions they think their fans don't like the answer to, before quickly sidestepping and looking the other way when pressed further.
 

Zenn3k

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Jim is really one of the best game journalists in the industry, I find I agree with his stance over 90% of the time...AND he's really entertaining to watch.

So yes, thank god for you :)
 

Canadamus Prime

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Norrdicus said:
canadamus_prime said:
I'd equate this to a Slave Master promising not to use the whips today. Have we become so used to the abuse that not being abused has become cause for celebration?
No, horrible analogy, try again. Slaves do not get to choose their masters
Well closest analogy I could think of.
 

Ryan Hughes

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I pretty much agree with Jim on this one, but I would like to add that when the PS3 was released, it was easy to build a PC with reasonably equal specs for about the same price. But for $399 USD, it is going to be about two full years before you can build a PC to match the PS4's specs, and even then you would still likely have to run Windows.

So, Sony has done right by budget gamers so far. But remember you do not have to pre-order anything right now, you can just wait and see what the future brings before you commit.
 

Colt47

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To be honest, Microsoft keeps having more and more bad news come out of E3 in regards to their Xbox One that it's becoming like Background noise. There's nothing left of the consumer trust to shred: they basically not only shredded it, they burned it up in a fire pit and made smoke signals with it. To find out they were even running the games on Windows 7 and Nvidia graphics cards instead of on dev kits isn't even surprising anymore, and they likely are going to bait and switch.

All someone needs to do is come out with a commercial Debian distribution that has closed source support like Adobe Creative Suite, out of the box games support, and good driver support. The entirety of Microsofts financial empire would start crumbling down around them.
 

DrOswald

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I think you got half of it Jim. The other half is that Sony announced that they were going to attempt to sell us the product we want to buy, not the product they want us to buy.

The past 7 years have not been great for the AAA video game consumer. From the broken promises of motion controls to the constant battle against consumer rights this has been one of the most difficult periods to be a gaming enthusiast. It has been genuinely difficult to remain enthusiastic about the main industry. We have been trained to know that there is a cloud in every silver lining.

And so Microsoft one again trots out the old lies. They tell us that their new console will be amazing. They don't tell us how or why, they just tell us to "think of all the cool things you could do with all this stuff! And don't worry, we promise not to screw you over even though we are setting up the perfect mechanism to do so!" But I don't care what the Xbox One could do, I want to know what it will do. And I just can't trust that Microsoft wont screw us over as hard as they can as soon as they can because that is what they do. Their track record is not good enough to backup the trust they are asking for.

What Sony did was special because they recognized all these problems and responded to them. They know we do not trust them, so they did not put a system in place that requires our trust. They knew that what we wanted was a simple gaming platform, and that is what they promised.

Sony did not promise us the moon and they did not promise to revolutionize the gaming industry. But lets be honest here: we do not want a gaming revolution, not now. Not after so many false revolutions and attacks on our rights as consumers. What we want now is just to be able to be excited about the next big game.

Maybe someday we will again be able to be excited about the possibilities of the future, but right now what we need is to stop the downward spiral. And that is what Sony promised. And what is more, it is a promise I can believe.
 

daxterx2005

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Anyone think Microsoft will backtrack with all this backlash?
Or is it way to late in the game to do that?
 

geizr

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Sony wanted to actually sell consoles to consumers. Every move has been calculated to do so, though Microsoft made which moves are necessary dirt-fucking stupidly obvious.

The real thing to see is the fallout when the consoles finally go on the market. I figure some Xbox Ones will be sold, because there is always going to be a contingent for whom the issues that many here have are not issues. However, I expect the market will reveal a very clear choice for PS4 (and even Wii U) over Xbox One, and developers/publishers needing to sell games (hence make money) will be forced to PS4. I expect, in the aftermath, there will be a guillotine erected in the courtyard of Microsoft as King Balmer exacts punishment on the bumbling VPs who were placed in charge of this fiasco. Only time will tell if such expectations prove precognitive. Regardless, for the time being, my money is on the PS4, and possibly a Wii U, but never an Xbox One.

Microsoft thinks to "educate" consumers. However, I think Microsoft will discover, much to its shock and horror, that it will be the consumers who will educate Microsoft on how not to treat paying customers. Mainstream, Triple-A gaming is in serious need of an enema; Microsoft, after all this, is probably as good a place to start as any other. Only better places I could think of would be EA and Ubisoft.
 

MichaelPalin

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Microsoft has been impatient more than anything else. Many of the analyses of what has happened miss the fact that very soon the great majority of games will be sold online. Not only that, I doubt you can have cloud features and streaming with a game unless you tie it irreversibly to your user account (and say goodbye to sharing and selling it). What Microsoft is forcing through DRM will eventually be accepted by most gamers for convenience.

In fact, if you think of it, the conditions of the Microsoft system (sharing with 10 friends) are probably going to be the most consumer friendly of them all when this happens, o_0

And PC is not an alternative to console DRM, every AAA title is either on Steam or on Origin or GFWL.
 

MB202

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Everyone went nuts about the PS4, which I can certainly understand. Any new console is going to look fantastic when compared to the Xbox One (or as I like to call it, the Xbox LOST). Me, I was all "eh" about it. I was a lot more focused on Nintendo's part, but really, saying that the PS4 ISN'T going down the road the Xbox LOST is going down really is a good thing... Because it shows that at least SOME people (who isn't Nintendo, which nobody cares about, apparently) isn't doing someone so stupid and thoughtless and actually CONSIDERING the future of the industry.
 

PainInTheAssInternet

The Ship Magnificent
Dec 30, 2011
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Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
I don't think it holds true. Not for me at least. I buy nearly all my games from the bargain bin (I play PS3 predominantly). The only games this gen that I bought full price (personally, not as gifts) are Far Cry 3 and (preordered Collector's Edition) Aliens; Colonial marines. I cancelled the latter.

One of the reasons is that it's very common for games to be re-released a few years later with all the DLC for 1/3rd the price of the original game without DLC.

For example, I got GTA 4 with all 3 campaigns for $20 Canadian. It's a difficult decision to buy new when I know that I can get fantastic bargains like that in the not-too-distant future.

EDIT

Sorry, I misread.

It is a bit dismissive of the great games that get overlooked, but I think it was aimed at the generic FPS crowd. If that's the case, I agree. If he's stating it as absolute universally-applicable fact, he's wrong as indicated with my example above.
 

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
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Top notch, Jim.

I've gone through my standard new console generation check list and have found Microsoft wanting in every category when compared with the competition this time around. I'm surprised since the last generation Microsoft took home most of the categories. But even the exclusives seem to be calling me to Sony and so my money will follow.
 

WildFire15

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I agree Microsoft has been stupid. Their E3 conference was actually pretty good but they'd dug themselves such a hole to start with they still can't see the day light, especially with Sony's attempts to bury them.

What Microsoft are aiming to do is take on Steam with the added bonus of a possibility of being able to trade in a few games, depending on the wimps of the Publisher who has fuck all to do with the actual development of the game. Some of the ideas are solid, but they're executed terribly and any money taken from Gamestop for a second hand sale is guaranteed to go to the executives who did nothing to actually make the game and expect all the reward.

At the moment, I'm likely to get a PS4 at some point while XbOne is sat as a 'maybe' depending on price drops and a change or two in policy (stranger things have happened, amazingly). Besides, the only game that really jumped up and grabbed me for Next Gen systems was The Crew, which I could ultimately take or leave and just get FUEL again instead. Also, Smash Bros remains at the top of my "NEED!!" list.

So what do you reckon Jim, seeing as you're quite happy to do Xbox One vs PS4: How do they stack up to Steam?
 

wwmcfar

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Oct 12, 2009
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Why is it that these executive types always sound like condescending pricks when ever they open their mouths ie Don Mattrick. You would think that you'd have to have social skills to rise through the ranks of a multi national corporation.
 

Vkmies

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Oct 8, 2009
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Awesome Podtoid reference! Always appreciate those :D

PUT ON YOUR MESH TANK TOPS!
 

Jimothy Sterling

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I want to say am very dissented with today's episode, While customers may prefer the PS4 to the Xbox One 3 to 1 , Microsoft prefers the Xbox One to the PS4 1 to 0.


Sincerely

Don Bot
 

scorptatious

The Resident Team ICO Fanboy
May 14, 2009
7,405
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Yeah, I can see your point. But hey, right now it's still a better alternative to the XBOX ONE. As others have said, I do hope Sony keeps their promises.
 

zalithar

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RandV80 said:
thanatos388 said:
While you can still share disc based games you cannot game share and sony will most definitely move in a more digital centered market in the near future.
You mean like the Microsoft's 10 family member thingy?

I don't know about that, if you interpret their system in the most gamer friendly manner popular then you would have a system that does far more damage to the publishers than used games ever could. Microsoft wouldn't give the publishers such a big bone only to take them behind the shed and shoot em.

Fundamentally though, I would say the system their implementing has everything to do with disc based game sharing. Unlike Steam which is more for personal use, the Xbox One will typically sit in the living room and for larger households be a family device. If little Timmy has an Xbox live account and little brother Jimmy also has his own, it would be suicide for MS to suggest the parents need to buy two 'licenses' of a game so they can both play.

That's what needs to be preserved here. If Sony doesn't have this for their digital purchases and you need that functionality, then you can just buy the retail copy.
A little anecdote for you.
My friend has playstation plus and I do not. Mostly because I just haven't gotten around to it, and it's low on my priorities. He came over to my house loaded his profile on my system and downloaded a copy of dungeon defenders to my console so we could play it. After he left I could still play dungeon defenders on my system without logging into his account, or even being logged into the system itself as him. My account can play things his account installed.

Sony kind of has a cut down version of Microsoft's family plan, except their not advertising it as a feature it's just part of the console. It's not as extensive but it works to its own degree.
 

Arcade Hero X

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Wasn't the PS3 basically a more powerful console then the xbox360 but the 3rd party games had never shown that. This was because it would have taken them longer and cost more to make games to fully utilize the power of the PS3 so they just settled on a standard that looked great on both console but the PS3 could have looked better.

I personally believe that when microsoft was saying that it's awesome server cap of 300,000 and its cloud services will not get properly utilized by 3rd party devs because they will not want to spend the extra bit to add on the features. So the really cool stuff the Xbone could possibly do will only be seen on MS exclusive games and if the 360 is an example there wasn't many exclusives outside FPS games and Alan wake.

I'd be looking forward to see how they work it into Dead rising 3 but I don't think I'll get a Xbone its far to multiplayer based I want my game console to cater to singleplayer first then MP but maybe I'm just old fashioned.
 

synobal

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Anyone who thinks good Journalism is parroting the talking points for both large corporations is wrong. I get that people can get upset when their favorite journalist has an opinion contrary to their own but journalism is more than just repeating the talking points for both corporations out of the fear of being called biased. Jim is doing his job and is doing a great job of it.
 

Big_Isaac

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PainInTheAssInternet said:
Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
I don't think it holds true. Not for me at least. I buy nearly all my games from the bargain bin (I play PS3 predominantly). The only games this gen that I bought full price (personally, not as gifts) are Far Cry 3 and (preordered Collector's Edition) Aliens; Colonial marines. I cancelled the latter.

One of the reasons is that it's very common for games to be re-released a few years later with all the DLC for 1/3rd the price of the original game without DLC.

For example, I got GTA 4 with all 3 campaigns for $20 Canadian. It's a difficult decision to buy new when I know that I can get fantastic bargains like that in the not-too-distant future.

EDIT

Sorry, I misread.

It is a bit dismissive of the great games that get overlooked, but I think it was aimed at the generic FPS crowd. If that's the case, I agree. If he's stating it as absolute universally-applicable fact, he's wrong as indicated with my example above.
yes, Reggie directed that mainly at devs of annual games like CoD and Madden

basically "We here at Nintendo aren't worried about used games because people WANT to keep playing Mario Kart. people WANT to keep playing ... . we don't do annual game updates, so used games aren't an issue for us"
or something along those lines
 

klaynexas3

My shoes hurt
Dec 30, 2009
1,525
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hentropy said:
"Or just buy a gaming PC and have an awesome life."

That's basically what I was thinking the whole episode.
You know, some of the major problems people have with the Xbone are the same reasons why they can't get into PC gaming. Probably why it's such an elite club. Perhaps the Xbone can provide another group like the PC master race that'd probably be more annoying with less reasons to feel superior.
 

Callate

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Amen. Hallelujiah. Praise be to Sterling.

Now I can stop saying virtually the same thing over and over and just link to the Jimquisition. And get suspended for low-content posting... crap.

Will add the proviso (that I've also been repeating) that although the PS4 may have left some DRM decisions up to publishers, they haven't given those publishers a gun to point at us the way Microsoft has. A game with DRM that requires it to connect to the Internet leaves a significant portion of the PS4 user base out in the cold, whereas Microsoft has bent over backwards to be sure every loyal consumer came market-equipped with a killswitch.

I also note that in punishing retail gaming Microsoft is pointing towards a future where gaming is only for people who have credit cards... or are willing to punt in long access codes every time they want to buy a game digitally. (Next version of Kinnect going to come with a freaking bar code scanner?!)

Deadcyde said:
wait... diablo 3 is coming to ps4 and it's an always online game right?

fucking son of a *****.
...Maybe not.

[link]http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/26/the-ps4-version-of-diablo-3-will-have-offline-co-op-no-word-on-pc-equivalent/[/link]

MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
No, I don't think so. The pressure to do so would come from publishers, and along with the punishment Microsoft has received, they've just received a wake-up slap to the face. There's strong hints that Sony is heading towards market dominance this generation that rides in part on their stance on this issue. They need to court Sony to get their games in front of people, not the other way around.

It's still possible, and even likely, that there will be a greater share of games distributed digitally in the future. Sony's indie-friendly stance goes well with this; most independent games are smaller than the AAA-behemoths, and more suited to quick downloads than 30GB Blu-Ray offerings. But Sony has established a market based on an environment that's either unfriendly to straight-up DRM through a lack of broadband Internet, or actively hostile towards it through choosing them over Microsoft. A gradual shift towards digital isn't out of the question, but that would likely be far more welcomed by consumers than the force-feeding that Microsoft is attempting in their self-appointed role as "leaders into the future."

In a couple of years, I might be marking your words. But are you equally prepared to eat them?
 

JSW

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Arcade Hero X said:
Wasn't the PS3 basically a more powerful console then the xbox360 but the 3rd party games had never shown that. This was because it would have taken them longer and cost more to make games to fully utilize the power of the PS3 so they just settled on a standard that looked great on both console but the PS3 could have looked better.
The PS3 had a more powerful CPU than the Xbox 360's (provided developers could navigate its convoluted architecture enough to fully take advantage of it) but its GPU was weaker and its segmented memory model presented certain barriers to development that didn't exist on the 360. It was neither weaker nor more powerful overall, but was significantly more difficult to develop for.

This time around, however, the PS4 is both more powerful and easier to develop for than the Xbox One (both use an x86 architecture, but the PS4's use of straight GDDR5 RAM makes it simpler than the Xbox One's DDR3/eSRAM combination,) making it the clear victor in terms of hardware capabilities.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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What is it about news where it just absolutely has to be as unbiased as humanly fucking possible and shed everyone in an equal light? We see this happen all the time with politics and religion, and it just makes no damn sense whatsoever. Even if the other side of the equation is complete gobshite, it still requires an equal amount of attention and not a single mention of one being more true than the other. Microsoft has turned itself in to the gaming equivalence of the Nazi Regime and people are seriously trying to defend it?
 

thiosk

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The 100$ price difference favoring the PS4 was enough to lead me to predict a thorough rout of the xboners this christmas. Collecting all the good press, seriously all of it, should give them enough marketing momentum to win handsomely.

The dick moves and the price premium is what hammered them in the dawn of the last generation, and it took them years to catch back up.

Doesn't matter to me, though, becuz steem teh heh.
 

conanthegamer

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Sep 19, 2008
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Jimothy Sterling said:
PS4 - Doing Nothing, Meaning Everything

Sony created a magic moment this past week at E3, declaring for the world that PS4 would not restrict used games or utilize DRM. Power to the people!

Watch Video
AMEN!!! Especially the last sentence. I walked away from Sony about their arrogance of the PS3. Don't think for a minute that I won't walk away from Xbox for their arrogance.
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
6,581
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daxterx2005 said:
Anyone think Microsoft will backtrack with all this backlash?
Or is it way to late in the game to do that?
This is an interesting thought. Microsoft recently announced[footnote]Because even though we're more than two weeks post-announcement they're STILL having to tell us how the damn thing works, even on a most basic level.[/footnote] that even when the "servers shut down," referring to when Microsoft's servers which people's consoles check into shut down because another couple of console generations has gone by, you'll still be able to play your games. They announced this because they were answering questions from Reddit, and one huge concern was the X-bone having an expiration date. Like how SimCity will be unplayable when EA decides to shut down its servers, it seemed as though the X-bone was the same way. When Microsoft stops supporting it, you simply wouldn't be able to log in anymore. You're left with a bulky, overpriced blu-ray player and a library of games you can no longer play (because we know the next console isn't going to be backwards-compatible either).

And, you know, this is a legitimate concern. Having to keep your old console to keep playing old games is one kind of inconvenience, and almost understandable in some situations. But Microsoft just being able to pull the plug on your console because they've decided they're done supporting it? Unacceptable. But, since Microsoft says it would retain functionality even after dropping it, then obviously it's already built with the capacity to do so. This isn't something hardwired into the system, they can just give it a little software update and stop requiring the 24 hour check-ins anytime they want.

However, given this is such a big feature they've already spent the last two weeks legitimizing, I doubt they'd give up so easily. Just because they can doesn't mean they will, and I think unless the X-bone's sales hit WAY below the mark of what MS wants, we're going to be stuck with all of these shitty things for a while. And same thing with the used games situation. Unless their sales are very low and they're pushed up against a wall, they aren't going to budge an inch on any of these "features."

I've been rather pessimistic about the X-bone's sales taking any sort of a hit from this, but I'm slowly becoming more convinced it might just happen. They may not be apocalyptically low, but someone else in the thread pointed out how service members will not be able to play the X-bone because of the 24 hour check-ins and the incredibly low number of countries it can be used in. As far as I'm aware, consoles in the military are pretty big. It may not be a huge number, but it's certainly a substantial market that has been completely and utterly removed from Microsoft's pool of customers. Then add on the people who live in places without consistent Internet, or young people like college student whose Internet situation changes almost every single year as they move in and out of dorms and apartments and you have a lot of people who used to be securely in their grasp suddenly up in the air. I can't wait for the thing to come out, just to see exactly how this plays out.
 

el_kabong

Shark Rodeo Champion
Mar 18, 2010
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While I enjoyed the video, I don't believe that it's accurate to say that Sony did nothing. Anyone who's ever had an interaction with another human should know that listening is not a necessity when they're making mouth noises at you. Sony directly answered questions and wants/needs being given to them by gamers. The pure act of being a responsive corporation that seeks to answer the needs of its consumer base is not a passive thing.

Second, I think that people who say that Sony changed nothing are looking at the Sony of last year to this year. However, when you look at the launch of the PS3 and PS4 back-to-back, it becomes clear in almost every way how much they've changed their tune. The PS3 was not sold to gamers, but as an all-inclusive entertainment center (where else have I heard that?). As such, it was limping along for the first part of its life, sustained en mass only by being a cheap bluray player. It was only as they shifted towards the mass market by cutting prices, gathering exclusives, and offering EXCELLENT subscription programs that they saw the PS3 become an actual success. While they are simply riding that same wave with PS4, it's almost an ocean away from how they launched the PS3.

Lastly, while I absolutely love the direct shot that Sony took at Microsoft, focusing on only those shots as they existed in the conference entirely misses many of the things Sony had to do to be able to come out with the policy it did. I think it's easy to say that both Microsoft and Sony looked at their next console generation and wanted to ensure that they have the support of third-party publishers. Microsoft attempted to raise that support by offering mandatory DRM measures that can be employed as a console-wide standard, emphasizing security of the publishers' content on their system as a drawing point. Sony, on the other hand, emphasized ease of development by changing the architecture to x86, courting indy developers, and getting their dev kits in the hands of the various developers early (and engaging them often). Rather than give a benefit to publishing on their console through means of taking things away from consumers (anti-piracy at the cost of consumer rights), Sony's plan involved in making it cost less for developers to make games. Aiding in the reduction of development costs (as far as they can contribute, that is) allowed Sony to get the 3P support any console needs to be successful without taking away from the consumer. It is because of their hard work in courting 3P devs that they do not have to resort to cheap tricks to appease developers.

A good company will make operating look easy. It may look still on the surface, but the underlying work to make it appear that way shouldn't be ignored (particularly when doing a detailed analysis of the situation).
 

GonzoGamer

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klaynexas3 said:
hentropy said:
"Or just buy a gaming PC and have an awesome life."

That's basically what I was thinking the whole episode.
You know, some of the major problems people have with the Xbone are the same reasons why they can't get into PC gaming. Probably why it's such an elite club. Perhaps the Xbone can provide another group like the PC master race that'd probably be more annoying with less reasons to feel superior.
That's the way things seem to be going: the consoles get more and more crappy features of pc gaming and none of the benefits.

I too find it sad that Sony felt the need to say something and yet I couldn't help but appreciate them twisting the knife into MS for being such dicks. Still, I kind of felt like they were trying to distract us from the whole psPlus required for online. That was one of the main reasons I got a ps3 over the 360; no extra fees. Is it as big of a kick in the nuts as MS? No. Does them not screwing us over in any other way excuse them from charging for online? No.

I'll admit, I was one of those people who thought Sony was going to do all the same stuff or worse...and you know what, they may have if people didn't start freaking out at MS' played hand. But can you blame me? Sony is one of the publishers with mandatory online pass on all their 1st party games; thats on top of all the other reasons Jim gave.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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You know, over this technical conversation as to how horrible the drm policies for each console are or may be, about prices and specs, I like ONE particular thing about Sony over Microsoft.
We all know the internet is a cesspool of hatred and opinionated idiocy, and we know its hard for companies to get a hold of what is really going on and balancing the desires and expectations of the consumers and the requirements of investors.
But I feel that in this particular situation, the concern for Microsoft's policies was NOT something to ignore.

Today, there are many options when it comes to entertainment, but there is also a lot of (rather justified) fear from the consumer to the companies that seem to want to milk you dry. Microsoft hasn't only failed to address their playerbase's concern, but it has even managed to be UNCLEAR, RUDE, SNARKY, and SATYRIC when addressing the VERY UNDERSTANDABLE conflicts that THEIR OWN PLAYERS have.

On the other hand, I know Sony isn't a saint, they like their profits as much as the next massive multinational. But there is a CLEAR awareness of what their supporters are requesting. As Jim said, I've never seen a company look and point at the elephant in the room with such directness. It IS a catch phrase, but they actually DID listen. They showed me that they do think about what is important for US ( even if it just means benefit for them ). And that, I respect.
 

Mr. Omega

ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE!
Jul 1, 2010
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I did love Sony directly going after Microsoft. It was a thing of beauty. And yet my WiiU does all those features everyone cheered for, AND it's backwards compatible. Still, thank you Sony for making Microsoft the odd man out.
 

Griffolion

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canadamus_prime said:
Yes, how sad it is that Sony just has to say that they'll do things that have been done for years and get lauded for it. Those things should go without saying.
Indeed, however some kudos need to be given to them for resisting the temptation to go the way of MS. Yes they protected the rights of consumers as they should be doing, but the temptation was there and they said "no" to it. I at least give my thanks for that.
 

Jenny Jones

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Saw this coming when the PS4 was properly announced =D

Though I don't trust either M$ or $ony, I think $ony might be the better of the two evils but I'm still quite wary and would rather support Nintendo over either of them (though I will remain on PC most likely). Just remember $ony have an agenda too and in case you missed it there was a very clear disc games only message that appeared on the M$ burn video. Who's to say PSN+ (which is a must for all multiplayer) won't become the only or most common/easiest way to get games in the future and negate the whole used games issue?

I hope I'm wrong but there's just a feeling I get from the way $ony have been playing their hand that makes me feel there's more to it and they're going to be slipping something in that's almost as bad as the Xbone.

Sorry gtg the neighbours are trying to read my thoughts again.
 

geizr

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Falseprophet said:
Microsoft set fire to their own house, all Sony has to do is sit back and fan the flames. The Xbone has even pissed off members of the US military! http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030/New-Xbox-sin-against-all-service-members-
Reading that article, I am left to shake my head in pure bafflement. ONLY in the game industry is it considered a good idea for a business to just throw away an entire significant market segment of customers and have no one to fill the gap left behind. This is just how sickly insane and twisted the game industry has become that these sort of business decisions make sense to the executives. In absolutely no other industry is it considered a smart business move to throw away an entire market segment without at least having another one that will take its place. But, Microsoft has left a complete market vacuum. Are they going to make a separate "special" console for sell just to the military with the restrictions lifted? Holy hell, that would make even less sense from a business perspective because now you fragment your production lines, which can be a costly and error-prone proposition to maintain compatibility with the rest of the market.

I think it possible a few more Microsoft executives will be following the path of Mr. Adam "Deal with it" Orth when this is all over.
 

DTWolfwood

Better than Vash!
Oct 20, 2009
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Could have mentioned the one downside to the whole thing, having to pay for multiplayer now.

Microsoft just straight up gave its customers the middle finger and ram its cock into their asses! Sony was kind enough to buy their customers dinner before just slipping in the tip :p
 

tdylan

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Marohen said:
Exceptional articulation of the Sony's reveal of support for used games.

The realization that this announcement--with all its praise--is really a celebration of the status quo is something I'm certain came to just about everyone's mind, and exploring why this inaction is deserving of such high regard is exactly the right angle to go from.
I prefer to look at it as "if it's not broken, don't do anything to attempt fixing it."
 

Djaevlenselv

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This is actually the second time in fairly recent memory I've seen Jim be at the opposite end of the spectrum on an issue to John 'TotalBiscuit' Bain, the last time being in regards to the used game market itself. It's kind of jarring really to see the two game journalists I follow the closest be so diametrically opposed, since I as a simple consumer don't always know whose testimony and opinions to trust. Both of them, after all, claim to base their opinions on industry facts.

What I would seriously like to see would be an actual debate between Jim and TB on one of the issues they disagree on, or really just any game related issue. I think that would be very interesting. Hell, you could throw Yahtzee into the mix for a full-on Snarky-Brit-stravaganza.

So I guess what I basically want is some kind of return of Extra Consideration...
 

Hellfireboy

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The thing is that you DID give them both equal treatment. I have no doubt that if Sony had done the same thing then this would have been another diatribe on the evils of the industry. But they didn't. And so it wasn't. Sony hung back and watched MS repeatedly slam their hand in a door and then said to themselves, "let's not do that." MS clearly designed the XBox One for publishers not consumers. The hope was probably that they would get enough exclusive content from said publishers that they could use that to get the consumers to overlook a bunch of things that they have vocally hated for years. In the end it will probably backfire. The one thing that publishers need more than anything else, more than anti-piracy measures, more than kickbacks from used games, is a platform in the house. If MS can't get the platform in your home it's no good to anyone. Sony on the other hand has just taken the gift from MS and will end up with more units sold which means that even if the publisher did go XB1 exclusive they're going to be chomping at the bit to get out of it and won't do it again since, no matter how secure, you can't sell a game for a platform that the consumer doesn't own.
 

xPixelatedx

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Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
I don't know what Jim thinks, but I freaking laughed my ass off. Nintendo does make a point, to, they got nothing to worry about. Even though the wii was the biggest selling console of last gen, if it was every bit as garbage as people say.... shouldn't the used game isle of GameStop be full of twice as many wii games as 360? Funny how the Nintendo section is the smallest at every GameStop I've been to. I don't know a single Nintendo centric gamer who likes to get rid of their stuff. In fact most of them have been around since the start (NES) so they know it's a better idea to hold on to what you like.

Say what you will about Nintendo and their games, but the people who love them really love them.

Obviously an exaggeration, given how much I've played skyrim myself. But hey, I do admit I played the original Zeldas more. I can't see myself ever picking Skyrim up again now that I've had my fill, but I know I will play Zelda 1 and 2 again down the line, and again years after that.
 

Trishbot

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Sony didn't exactly "do nothing". Resisting temptation is doing something commendable. They were in a position to follow Microsoft's policies, cater to the whims of publishers over customers, and said "no". That's doing something commendable, even if it is keeping the status quo.

Though, I think the Wii U needs some love.
 

Arawn

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Doing nothing and being applauded is an effect of Microsoft's current situation. If not for their poorly managed release of information,comments from executives and staff at MS, and the system they've set for the Xbox One People would have heckled Sony right off the stage. When the stumbling start the X-1 got, it set the stage for almost anyone to capitalize upon. From what Jim said Sony didn't decide what it wanted to do til the very last moment. Shocking to say the least. How easy could it have been for them to go the other way. How easy would it have been to jump on Microsoft's wagon and join in on the consumer's worst nightmare. But they didn't. I'm guessing they weighed the risk vs rewards, and saw that in doing nothing they had more to gain than doing anything. The angered and jilted lovers of video game were waiting to see what they had to say. They had everyone's attention. It really seems such a simple choice when you look at it. Ride the wave; give the people what they want.

Now Sony did say the right things, but they are doing some things people might still look upon with disdain. For one; they're linking online play to their Playstation Plus service. For the longest time Sony's lack of subscription which gave it some appeal. It was one of the factors for what I purchased the PS3 those many moons ago. I don't want to pay for my internet to work after I've paid for my internet to work. I didn't really care that it kept my scores and friends list for me. Paying to play seemed silly. Irony is when Sony released the Plus system I tried it and liked it. But I wasn't paying for multiplayer I was paying for game discounts, free games, beta testing. For that I could rationalize the $5 per month. I can hardly complain now since I've been paying already. So the online access isn't going to bother me in a slightest now.

The second thing people are mentioning is the fact they've put the ball into the publisher's court. From their statement they said they would not have DRM or check ins on their system. At the same time they wouldn't stop the publishers from doing so. This of course leaves it open for the game makers to do as they please. Might cause some backlash if they decide to add such measures to their games, but at least Sony can say it's not their fault. So again they are doing nothing. Not sure how to take this, but I feel most will keep it simple and allow people to play. With the popularity that Sony has achieved with it's statement and news of it's pre-order sales; a lot of games will be sold. The volume of used games will be low since so many people will be picking up games for the fledgling system. Nintendo made a good point; make better games rather than try to restrict the market. I love my games, but the scripted 5hr single player and 100+ hrs of multiplayer action get old quickly. It's another shooter or racing game and little difference from the last one. Publishers might try to lace the Sony pool with their counter measures, or snub the system for not choosing to back their possible gravy train. Locking out games from being resold similar to the RE example Jim gave.

Another point of interest having to do with games. Many of my friends (myself included) are quite excited about the press conferences that came out. Yet a short time afterwards we learn most of those games showed are shared between the systems. Yet during the show both companies tossed out words like "Exclusive" quite liberally. This is a good and bad thing. Truly exclusive games are a means to draw people to your system and generate interest. Games like Halo made the Xbox a success as did other games that followed. Still if Xbox One's launch titles are ones I can acquire on PS4 I'm even less motivated to purchase one. The reverse can be said for PS4. If I can manage the same experience with either system what's my motivation? Why should I pick up one over the other if they're the same thing in a different box. That can hurt Xbox One, the current underdog, in this battle for people's money. Titan Fall and Dead Rising 3 (Two games that wowed me) are both very excellent looking games. Of those two I'm told Dead Rising is the only true exclusive with Titan Fall gracing PC systems as well. WiiU has Bayonetta 2. Yes, I saw the news of that long ago and thought it a joke. But upon seeing that shiny gem that Nintendo has landed I felt a tug to purchase a WiiU. Yes, seriously. I saw Bayonetta 2 and said "Damn wish I had a WiiU." That's what exclusive games are supposed to do. A good exclusive will sell a console just as much as good review of said console. Sony has pick up some Indie games, some have already debuted on the PC. A remake of Abe's Odyssey is in the works. I recall seeing some "Free to play" games coming with the PS4 line-up. While not bad, I was expecting more innovative and new IP to dig my teeth into. Both sides gave us the "Coming Soon" on some select titles. Very nice to see, but how far/long til they're within reach?

Lastly we come to backwards compatibility. I mentioned paying for online as one of the reason I choose PS3, but another factor was that it could play the larger PS1 and PS2 library I already had. Mind you the price was quite high so I got the system and two PS3 games (bought separately) when it came out. So imagine my shock that Sony decided not to include that feature in the new incarnation of their game system. Microsoft did the same thing, but went so far as to say "If you backward compatible you're backwards" (Or something to that effect) Regardless, I feel that if Sony had included it the battle with Xbox One would be done before it started. I would have my PS3 to play PS1 and PS2 games and a PS4 to play PS3. Sounds silly, doesn't it? Still for those that have been put off by MS recent choices and had been loyal Xbox 360 owners would have seen otherwise. In purchasing a PS4 they would have had access to store of old and used games. Games they probably would never have played if the new Xbox hadn't changed the way they purchase,play, and sell their games. But fantasy aside I can see why they might have nixed it; focus on the new generation and all that. Fine I'll get over it eventually I can still play my PS3. Interesting enough they announced a system to do just that on PS4. Bravo. I'm curious what this en devour will cost as they're not going to let everyone play the older system game for free. If so where do I sign up? Some sent me this link not long ago. http://imgur.com/r/gaming/UdhHNVK . It would be a novel approach to say the least. Wishful thinking it's something like that. Sales of older games would see a boost even non owners of PS3 would dig up gems to utilize such a system.

There's quite abit of time before PS4 and X-1 make it to the shelves. Perhaps MS can shore up the holes they've managed to make in the boat while shooting themselves in the foot. Their PR has put their foot in their collective mouths, and left a bad taste in ours. And perhaps Sony will do something to cement the good press the MS fiasco has generated. Just being cheaper might not mean much if the publishers do go through with DRM and other measures. It could cause just as much (if not worst) a stir should that happen. Even if it's not their fault, they did nothing. ~In Jim we trust
 

IronMit

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You imply a decision was not made until the last minute and your proof is that they waited till E3?

I think you underestimated Sony, they waited for E3 to talk about their trump card. They were probably 90% sure all along that their console was not going to be an 'always online' one - you would have to build the entire OS around something like that.

If they made an official statement between their 2 conferences then half the excitement would of gone by E3.


And not talking about their used game policy at E3 would of been suicide. You can cut their pre-orders buy half because everyone would assume the worst.

Also they maybe did not want MS to get spooked if Sony officially said they would not do it. This is very possible considering they played the same type of mind games with the price, (high risk strategy with GDDR5-when only 2gb was feasible at the start of development) and even by surprising them with the surprise first PS4 conference.
 

Legion

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Oct 2, 2008
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I have to ask, what is with the prawn/shrimp? I keep seeing it crop up, but unlike the bored face Yahtzee uses, I can't see the common connection for when it is used.

Shdwrnr said:
Does nobody remember the last time Sony promised a feature that people got really excited about? How are those Linux PS3's doing now anyway?
I agree that people shouldn't automatically adore Sony just because they did something good, when Microsoft did something bad, but if the results truly reflect what we are beginning to suspect (that the PS4 will slaughter the XBone in sales and become the more dominant console) then it'd be in their best interests not to screw people over.

If they "win" the console race this generation, then the best thing they can do is try and please consumers even more. If you have the better product, and still go out of your way to win consumers that's going to do wonders in the long term.

If Sony are smart, they will not get complacent about this good publicity, which is exactly what Microsoft did with the XBone. They were so confident that the Xbox 360 was more successful than the PS3 that they thought they could get by with their business practices purely on customer faith.
 

DarkhoIlow

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It's a bit sad that everyone is cheering for Sony for saying things that should be implemented from the first place as it was in previous generations. Always online, no used games policies and what not.

Just because M$ dig themselves so deep that Sony took advantage of that and just waited the whole thing out. All they had to do is to say exactly the opposite and all of a sudden they are the messiah of console gamers.

People are so gullible it's amazing.
 

TheMemoman

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Jim as always solid. Granite convictions. A militant of truth! A true Paladin amongst the shit whirlwind that Microsoft has bafflingly created for itself. And he's right: equal time doesn't equate to fairness and equal assessments doesn't translate to balanced. Jim's coverage has been relentless, objective and consequent. True journalistic integrity as I have not seen in years.
 

lord.jeff

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IKWerewolf said:
Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
True through and through, if you make a game you can play over and over again and never get old then you are less likely to give the game away, if a player is kept fed in high quality DLC then they will buy high quality DLC. More importantly, if everyone is keeping their copy of a game, there is no used games market because there would be no trade-ins occurring.

Snarky remark in your opinion but true none the less.
But it's not true simply going into a Gamestop or any used game market two weeks after any game is released, even the most well of received, and your more then likely to find a copy.
 

Rabidkitten

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I think the indie developer support is really big. Its very bizarre that Sony, the company that stonewalled indies initially with the PS3 are now embracing them, and Microsoft, the company the brought us XBLIG, XBLA, and XNA, are now stonewalling them. Why the sudden turn of the tables? Does it know that the only reason I actually plugged in my brother in laws xbox 360 after it sitting in my garage for a year was to start playing some of these XBLIG, and XBLA indie games that were coming out? So when Dark Souls came out, I coughed up some money for a Xbox gold account to play it online for a while etc.

But Sony might be learning from their PS3 mistakes, (overpriced launch library, developer loops to jump through in terms of hardware and development, shitty system updating features etc.) However it should be noted that they are going to charge for Online Gameplay unless the publisher of said game coughs it up for the server support. Sadly the PS4 really gives us nothing new, and actually still takes a little away. Well except its open indie dev support which is great.

Tyler

On a side note this is something microsoft can remedy and quickly, they could do a press conference at pax prime, and just back the heck out. Remove the every 24 hour policy, announce some indie developer program, loosen up the used game policies, and throw in some goodies. Good will be had and the race will be on. To stick their guns though... yeesh
 

Oskuro

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That video "tutorial" where the guys share a PS4 game... Pause it and read the fine print. The game sharing option is only for Disc Based games, and online play on the PS4 requires a subscription.


Smells like "shift into mostly digital distribution" to me.


Someone said this about E3 [http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=e3_wrapup_2013]
 

Amir Kondori

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
It is really sad when someone has such a weak argument, or even no argument, that all they can rely on is saying something like "well, they are doing the right thing now, but you wait, in the future they will totally be bad".

You know why that can not be true? Because the game is going to launch with offline capability. Meaning all disc games will have to work offline. Which means if they try and then force on DRM and online checks down the road they break compatability with a large part of their library. No console manufacturer is going to do that. This is a nonsense argument that is made because you don't have a real one.
 

BBboy20

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thanatos388 said:
While you can still share disc based games you cannot game share and sony will most definitely move in a more digital centered market in the near future.
Wasn't the share button also capable of allowing a friend to play your game? I think I saw that at the Feb. conference.
 

timboo_drow

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Let's not forget about the sheer variety PS4 showed as well. I keep hearing that people were more impressed with XB1's lineup but let's have a closer look shall we.

1.) A stealth game (sequel)
2.) A swordy slashy quicktime event game (God of War)
3.) A zombie game (if you put all the digital zombies created together you would have a literal apocalypse)
4.) A car enthusiast's masturbatory dream
5.) Halo
6.) Call of Duty (errr I mean BattleField)
7.) Call of Duty with Mechs
8.) A fighting game (complete with douchey immature trash talk)

There were a couple of standouts like Project Spark, but a more tired collection of safe samey titles could not possibly be found. It's like a launch lineup created by focus group.

Not to let Sony off the hook, there were some safe looking entries there as well, but rolling out those indie developers the way they did, hinting at a near limitless amount of variety and creative energy, I was pretty stoked. I've been getting so bored with game offerings like the one MS proposes, I was glad to see that somebody seems to be listening to my gamer fatigue.
 

Reyold

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canadamus_prime said:
Yes, how sad it is that Sony just has to say that they'll do things that have been done for years and get lauded for it. Those things should go without saying.
No kidding. You ever wonder when (or if) things will get better? Like another golden age of gaming or something like that?
 

BBboy20

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Lilani said:
daxterx2005 said:
Anyone think Microsoft will backtrack with all this backlash?
Or is it way to late in the game to do that?
This is an interesting thought. Microsoft recently announced[footnote]Because even though we're more than two weeks post-announcement they're STILL having to tell us how the damn thing works, even on a most basic level.[/footnote] that even when the "servers shut down," referring to when Microsoft's servers which people's consoles check into shut down because another couple of console generations has gone by, you'll still be able to play your games.
So, basically, the internet check is not needed and you still have to hope that Micro$oft will patch away that restriction 5+ years down the line...great.
 

Lord_Gremlin

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Trishbot said:
Sony didn't exactly "do nothing". Resisting temptation is doing something commendable. They were in a position to follow Microsoft's policies, cater to the whims of publishers over customers, and said "no". That's doing something commendable, even if it is keeping the status quo.

Though, I think the Wii U needs some love.
Honestly? I need 1 really bloody, gory offensive game on it which is also good gameplay-wise before I buy it. So, next year, when Bayonetta 2 is out.

I really hope xbone fails hard. And I bet it will. There will be initial sales 2-3 million units and after that I predict it staying 3 million units while PS4 gets to 10, 20, 40 million...
It is PS2 era coming back.
 

theultimateend

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Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
Seeing as I've never traded in a Nintendo game I'm willing to agree with them.
 

Doom972

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I just noticed something on the E3 footage in this video. Are the PS4 games going to run directly from the disc? If so, I guess people should expect some serious loading times.
 

theultimateend

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Doom972 said:
I just noticed something on the E3 footage in this video. Are the PS4 games going to run directly from the disc? If so, I guess people should expect some serious loading times.
You can either run them from the disc or do an install for the game and the disc will be required to start it up.

If its the same as the PS3, at least.

Griffolion said:
canadamus_prime said:
Yes, how sad it is that Sony just has to say that they'll do things that have been done for years and get lauded for it. Those things should go without saying.
Indeed, however some kudos need to be given to them for resisting the temptation to go the way of MS. Yes they protected the rights of consumers as they should be doing, but the temptation was there and they said "no" to it. I at least give my thanks for that.
I think Gandhi said something like "Doing nothing >is< doing something." Keeping with the status quo is a noble gesture if the alternative trend is destroying it or lowering the positive aspects of it.

simwaroar5 said:
My goodness Jim your head is so far up your own ass it is incredible, you don't even check all of your facts. Sony never said there would be no DR in fact they made it clear that there would be DRM, but that it would be left up to the publishers. Now you have to ask your self if you believe that EA and Activision are just going to let there be no DRM on their games. The Nextbox decided it was going to innovate, more than any other system. It made some sacrifices to push the industry to a more Steam-esque console experience. You are going to be able to share games like never before, and trade digital copies of things, something You can't do on PS4. The entire XBL community is going to be completely organic and allow for it to be constantly updated, constantly evolving, allowing you to jump in, play at anytime, and anywhere as if it was your own home. Jim doesn't talk about that, he would HATE to talk about that. Jim only wants to perpetuate this ridiculous circlejerk, that Microsoft hates us and is constantly out to bleed us ;ike sheep. Personally I think they should just fire their PR department.
What sony said about the PS4 is that it is exactly the same as the PS3 and the Xbox 360.

Publishers already had a choice if they wanted to add DRM or not. The same is true with the PC.

The irony of your opening sentence is palpable.

Steam is only innovative because its also considerably cheaper for patient people than alternatives.

Steam without any price reduction isn't innovative. Sega did it back on the Genesis.
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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BBboy20 said:
Lilani said:
daxterx2005 said:
Anyone think Microsoft will backtrack with all this backlash?
Or is it way to late in the game to do that?
This is an interesting thought. Microsoft recently announced[footnote]Because even though we're more than two weeks post-announcement they're STILL having to tell us how the damn thing works, even on a most basic level.[/footnote] that even when the "servers shut down," referring to when Microsoft's servers which people's consoles check into shut down because another couple of console generations has gone by, you'll still be able to play your games.
So, basically, the internet check is not needed and you still have to hope that Micro$oft will patch away that restriction 5+ years down the line...great.
Yup, pretty much. And in the meantime, you have to hope your Internet situation doesn't change while you own the console. Better hope you don't have to move to a place with sucky or limited Internet.
 

Griffolion

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theultimateend said:
I think Gandhi said something like "Doing nothing >is< doing something." Keeping with the status quo is a noble gesture if the alternative trend is destroying it or lowering the positive aspects of it.
Indeed. And while it's sad from the perspective of someone who has the mindset of things needing to constantly be improving (which would be 99% of us) that keeping the SQ is considered noble, the absolute reality we find ourselves in regarding Microsoft makes this positive.
 

Jamous

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Heh, good stuff Jim. Just out of interest, how surprised were you at the announcement? Because I sure as shit didn't see it coming.
 

simwaroar5

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{theultimateend} said:
What sony said about the PS4 is that it is exactly the same as the PS3 and the Xbox 360.

Publishers already had a choice if they wanted to add DRM or not. The same is true with the PC.

The irony of your opening sentence is palpable.
theultimateend:
Steam is only innovative because its also considerably cheaper for patient people than alternatives.

Steam without any price reduction isn't innovative. Sega did it back on the Genesis.
Yes what PS4 did is exactly the same as the PS3 and 360, because there is nothing new they are just selling updated graphics and coming out with some new sequels everyone has been asking for and their own exclusives. That's it!

Yeah they do add DRM all the time, there will be season passes, microtransactions, day-one dlc. Also Sony never said they had plan's for any digital sharing which Microsoft has. Along with the ability to trade you games in at Gamestop for 32 cents each. Honestly I never trade games in because they never give you anything, but you all want it so bad and you have it, but you are still complaining. The only people they are screwing over are the little games stores, but as we enter a digital age they are going away anyway.

Yeah well if consoles start adopting the Steam model (which Microsoft has been edging towards with all the new sales and the dedicated sale section of their marketplace) then it will be a great innovation. along with all the added game play benefits of the Kinect 2.

There is know irony in my opening statement you are just either willfully ignoring all the positives of the Nextbox or you are woefully misinformed.
 

aaronexus

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Well, it's never exactly been a secret to Windows users that Microsoft is kinda chaotic-stupid. The only thing I'm surprised by is how shortsighted it all seems, like they're trying to decimate, excuse me, annihilate their userbase. Half the countries, no military sales, no internet without reliable 1.5Mb download speed ... it's like Vista all over again, only dumber. I still stick to my theory that Microsoft is terrified by the implosion of home computer sales and is desperately sticking their willy in any and everything in the vain hope of remaining relevant. It's times like this that I'm glad I sacrificed all those goats to the Cthonic gods of my ancestors to acquire the technical skills needed for building computers(Eris is my favorite, if you wanted to look into that.) :?
 

BBboy20

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timboo_drow said:
Let's not forget about the sheer variety PS4 showed as well. I keep hearing that people were more impressed with XB1's lineup but let's have a closer look shall we.

1.) A stealth game (sequel)
2.) A swordy slashy quicktime event game (God of War)
3.) A zombie game (if you put all the digital zombies created together you would have a literal apocalypse)
4.) A car enthusiast's masturbatory dream
5.) Halo
6.) Call of Duty (errr I mean BattleField)
7.) Call of Duty with Mechs
8.) A fighting game (complete with douchey immature trash talk)
1)MP
3) Previous game was MP
6)MP
7)On 360 and PC
So, from that list alone, leaves 4 true exclusives that you can only play on Zero but 2 of them are done by M$' own studios...yeah.
 

Laughing Man

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Has anyone actually thought what will happen the generation after this? What happens if the XBone goes on to have an equal or better market share than the PS4? What does that tell these big companies and what does that mean for the next next gen?
 

Zeckt

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I would say that opening the doors for indie dev's when all microsoft mentions is minecraft (seriously? MINECRAFT is still indie to them?) is a VERY big something, but otherwise great video.
 

Don Dorscha

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simwaroar5 said:
My goodness Jim your head is so far up your own ass it is incredible, you don't even check all of your facts. Sony never said there would be no DR in fact they made it clear that there would be DRM, but that it would be left up to the publishers. Now you have to ask your self if you believe that EA and Activision are just going to let there be no DRM on their games. The Nextbox decided it was going to innovate, more than any other system. It made some sacrifices to push the industry to a more Steam-esque console experience. You are going to be able to share games like never before, and trade digital copies of things, something You can't do on PS4. The entire XBL community is going to be completely organic and allow for it to be constantly updated, constantly evolving, allowing you to jump in, play at anytime, and anywhere as if it was your own home. Jim doesn't talk about that, he would HATE to talk about that. Jim only wants to perpetuate this ridiculous circlejerk, that Microsoft hates us and is constantly out to bleed us ;ike sheep. Personally I think they should just fire their PR department.
This has got to be the worst case of fanboy stupidity and/or blind nerdrage I have ever seen. First of all, Jim never said that there would be no DRM, only that there will be no DRM on First Party titles, which is true. Any DRM that Activision, EA, etc wants to put on they can, but since there is no hardware mechanism they have to do the same Online Pass/ Verification Code bullshit that they have publicly stated that they are discontinuing now because it's hurting their sales. Will they come up with some new, devious DRM that they can do without there being hardware support for it? Maybe so, but that's potentially true on every system ever, even your iPad.

Second: The 'Nextbox' deciding to 'innovate' and allowing you to 'jump in, play at anytime, and anywhere as if it was your own home.' Seriously? Where other than your own home are you when you're playing on a console? Do you think that there will be like XBone Cafes where people can sit around, being pretentious, drinking overpriced coffee and log on to one of the store XBones to experience a thrilling round the new spunkgargleweewee (thanks for that Yahtzee btw!)? Do you think people are going to go over to a friend's house to play the games they already own? And if so, wouldn't they just bring their copy of the disc like they have for twenty-five years?

I don't think anyone but the most paranoid, conspiracy-driven gamers think Microsoft hates gamers. the reality is that Microsoft's sin is to look at their customer base and see numbers instead of seeing people. They look at us as a series of bar graphs and pie charts rather than as a customer base and consequently have completely lost touch with making sure we are the ones happy with their product. They have us mixed up with developers. Developers are the ones who have no choice but to deal with Microsoft (or any other console) if they want to produce games for them. They are the ones who need to jump through hoops because Microsoft is the one who is providing the medium by which the only product they have can be experienced, and so to sell their product they NEED the console. So tailoring your system to make the people who have no choice but to deal with you to reach your customers happy rather than making the customers happy and telling the companies to just deal with it is really ass-backward. It's like a salesman customizing his sales pitch to the companies that manufacture products so that they will use him rather than customizing his pitch to make his customers happy so they will BUY THINGS. In the end you're gonna end up bankrupt.
 

hermes

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
Perhaps, but so far we have no reason to believe so.

Also, given the public response and the fact all publishers are publicly saying "we were not the ones that gave Microsoft that idea...", "it wasn't us...", "we don't support it"; I believe its more likely Microsoft will pull a 180 a couple years down the line.
 

thanatos388

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[/quote]Wasn't the share button also capable of allowing a friend to play your game? I think I saw that at the Feb. conference.[/quote]

Yeah but it saves to your system and we don't know all the details. Basically its a cheat button really, if you have trouble with a boss you can ask your friend to do it for you and you still get the trophy. Which could get so very annoying.
 

theultimateend

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simwaroar5 said:
There is know irony in my opening statement you are just either willfully ignoring all the positives of the Nextbox or you are woefully misinformed.
Ok I'll bite.

What does the Xbox One provide me that my Gaming PC that does not?

Griffolion said:
Indeed. And while it's sad from the perspective of someone who has the mindset of things needing to constantly be improving (which would be 99% of us) that keeping the SQ is considered noble, the absolute reality we find ourselves in regarding Microsoft makes this positive.
I'm very big on progress. You'll find few people who gets more disgruntled about old folks holding back progress than me.

But sometimes doing nothing is doing something.

Like you not stabbing me is something I greatly appreciate and I consider it a very positive part of my day. 7 Billion people and not a one of them is stabbing me. I really really like that.

On the flip side if you could not stab me AND help get cheap affordable renewable energy to the world. That would be even better.
 

irishda

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Good thing everyone came out of the gate saying the next gen was a waste of time because all the companies were going to follow Microsoft's suit and declare war on consumers (not that that's not a bit of hyperbole either).
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Shdwrnr said:
Does nobody remember the last time Sony promised a feature that people got really excited about? How are those Linux PS3's doing now anyway?
I installed Linux on mine. But it was a lot of work to switch between Linux and Xross. In Linux there were no hardware accelerated 3D graphics drivers. Last I checked that hadn't changed.

If anyone knows otherwise, please quote this so I will see your reply in the site's PM inbox.
 

Shdwrnr

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May 20, 2011
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Mick P. said:
Shdwrnr said:
Does nobody remember the last time Sony promised a feature that people got really excited about? How are those Linux PS3's doing now anyway?
I installed Linux on mine. But it was a lot of work to switch between Linux and Xross. In Linux there were no hardware accelerated 3D graphics drivers. Last I checked that hadn't changed.

If anyone knows otherwise, please quote this so I will see your reply in the site's PM inbox.
The point was that OtherOS was a feature that Sony promised. They created it, they shipped it, then they changed their minds and stripped it out in a firmware update and started litigation on an enthusiest who showed people how to do it anyway. Sony has made promises of features in the past and thought nothing of tearing them away from you even post purchase. I don't see how people can trust their claims now after seeing what they think of their own promises.

hermes200 said:
MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
Perhaps, but so far we have no reason to believe so.
See above.
 

Treaos Serrare

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the simple fact that Transistor will be available on the PS4 is enough for me really, I look forward to that game being solid gold like Bastion before it
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Shdwrnr said:
Mick P. said:
Shdwrnr said:
Does nobody remember the last time Sony promised a feature that people got really excited about? How are those Linux PS3's doing now anyway?
I installed Linux on mine. But it was a lot of work to switch between Linux and Xross. In Linux there were no hardware accelerated 3D graphics drivers. Last I checked that hadn't changed.

If anyone knows otherwise, please quote this so I will see your reply in the site's PM inbox.
The point was that OtherOS was a feature that Sony promised. They created it, they shipped it, then they changed their minds and stripped it out in a firmware update and started litigation on an enthusiest who showed people how to do it anyway. Sony has made promises of features in the past and thought nothing of tearing them away from you even post purchase. I don't see how people can trust their claims now after seeing what they think of their own promises.
Ok, thanks for that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS)

I guess I have 10GB on my HDD that is useless then.
 

faefrost

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Rainboq said:
MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
Why would they? If they get the install base that it looks like they're going to get, leaving the policies in place, while focusing on ramping up the PSN marketplace would net them a lot more cash than turning around and screwing over the consumer. It would make no sense for them to do that.

OT: Its really surprising to see just how thoroughly Microsoft has screwed this up on a PR level. Policies aside, they announced things in the worst way possible, especially in the clusterfuck after they announced their console.
This! SONY has no reason to follow MS's lead and force DRM down our throats. All they need to do is follow the lead of Steam, iTunes and Amazon and actually give us a benefit for voluntarily moving in that direction. They have all the tools they need in place. Leverage PSN with Steam type sales. SONYs tech allows the user to swap out or expend their hard drive. So they have lots of space. They are using the Indies to bring people into the digital download space. They have GaiKai to allow for a digital delivery of a vast back catalog. And we will not be complaining one bit about it, because, like Steam, we will be getting true convenience and benefit in trade, and like Steam the choice of if or when to use such services remains ours.
 

KOMega

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timboo_drow said:
Let's not forget about the sheer variety PS4 showed as well. I keep hearing that people were more impressed with XB1's lineup but let's have a closer look shall we.

1.) A stealth game (sequel)
2.) A swordy slashy quicktime event game (God of War)
3.) A zombie game (if you put all the digital zombies created together you would have a literal apocalypse)
4.) A car enthusiast's masturbatory dream
5.) Halo
6.) Call of Duty (errr I mean BattleField)
7.) Call of Duty with Mechs
8.) A fighting game (complete with douchey immature trash talk)
well, for all that I care about, the games I want to play are mostly available on either system or exclusive to PS, and the PS4 is cheaper. So therefore I like the PS4. I don't know much about the xbox exclusives. By the same logic, people who are heavily invested in xbox exclusives will probably still buy the X1.
 

Charli

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Deadcyde said:
MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
probably true, but they have been spanked pretty hard in the past for being dick holes. Maybe they've figured out they need to be jerks in small manageable doses instead of huge clusterfucks like the xbone and Diablo 3

wait... diablo 3 is coming to ps4 and it's an always online game right?



fucking son of a *****.
Blizzard said they're making an offline game mode for PS3/4 (if this doesn't come to pass, blame misinformation) but as of now that's what they've told.

Lord knows why they can't just give it to PC users too but I suppose Sony are a little more watchful over the ability to alter and hack games on their OS. But if that's a worry, then, kill it.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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canadamus_prime said:
I'd equate this to a Slave Master promising not to use the whips today.
Just slavery? You don't want to go for a full Godwin here?

It's a little over the top to compare standard consumer practices to slavery, especially the most abusive practices (and practitioners) of slavery.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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timboo_drow said:
3.) A zombie game (if you put all the digital zombies created together you would have a literal apocalypse)
Technically, but not because of the zombies themselves so much as the black hole their concentrated mass would create.
 

Aglaophotis666

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Laughing Man said:
Has anyone actually thought what will happen the generation after this? What happens if the XBone goes on to have an equal or better market share than the PS4? What does that tell these big companies and what does that mean for the next next gen?
I certainly have. I was actually just coming to suggest to Mr. Sterling that he should dedicate an episode of The Jimquisition to addressing the people who are still planning to buy an Xbox One because the used game/online check-ins etc. don't matter to them as they personally have no need for the used game market/have a good internet connection. Aside from the fact that people should have the social conscience to realize that there are many people who will be screwed over by these policies and should reconsider supporting a company that is willing to alienate the less fortunate, they should at least consider a future in which Microsoft is allowed to get away with what it's trying to do.

If the Xbox One manages to be successful (not necessarily "win" the console war but makes enough money off of it to continue releasing new consoles in the future) what's to stop them from trying to get away with a little bit more each time? To gradually but inevitably deprive consumers of ALL of their rights? Used games and internet connections may not matter to you personally right now, but if you don't stand up to Microsoft today to let them know they can't get away with all the crap they're pulling, what happens when they eventually take away something that you DO care about? Of course, when that happens, there will be no one left to stand beside you in YOUR protest because they will all have already been dominated by Microsoft's all-encompassing attack on basic human dignity.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is capable of thinking long-term.
 

redknightalex

Elusive Paragon
Aug 31, 2012
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I'm sure that everything in the video has already been addressed many times over (and I see that the fanboy wars are already in full operation) but I wanted to say one thing about your closing statements, Jim.

Take away the game from game journalism and you've got a journalist. If we stop saying that game journalists are somehow different then regular journalists and hold them to the same standard -- which, albeit, is rather low for me right now -- then you're saying exactly what needs to be said and I expect no apologies. Sure, the Times or Atlantic may be a little more subtle about their approach yet while they're reporting news that affects everyday lives, you're reporting on news that affects consumers. Journalists are, by definition, reporting on news events that concern the common citizen. Game journalists report on events that affect the gaming consumer. Same thing? Maybe. Same principle? I'd say so.

My answer to anyone buying an Xbone is, and always will be, is "it's anti-consumer." Thank god for Jim.

(I'm also vehemently against the ideas, ie online phone home, that Microsoft has adopted. No matter how little I'm actually off the Internet, I don't want it. Period. If my principles fail me then I don't know what else I've got.)
 

PunkRex

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Power to the people!
Jim, if Microsoft really have declared war, can we get a vid of you dressed as Winston Churchill giving a rousing speech about how much they suck?
 

ZexionSephiroth

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I'm pretty sure its now perfectly clear that Microsoft's Xbox one is Xboned.

Its probably only going to sell a miniscule number of units, it has no game that will get units out of the store...

Basically... They are Screwed.

Next Gen seems to be all out competition between the original Grudge match, Nintendo VS Sony. One who betrayed the other...

Thing is... Nintendo is bound to succeed regardless, guaranteed victory by sheer virtue of owning half the good game series from the dawn of gaming, and they aren't above letting all of the other games come over to their side.

...On the other hand... Nintendo doesn't have a device powerful enough for some games so the PS4 is still going to have something to do.

But needless to say, with one giant slain... There's a crash in the making... The real question is whether it shakes the very foundations of the game industry, or if everyone pitches in to drag the slain carcass of the dead behemoth back to turn into food for the hungry masses.

...Probably the later...

So... I would like to Congratulate Nintendo and Sony for the spoils of war they will soon gain. As well as for saving us all the extra $500 it would cost to get three consoles instead of two.
 
Dec 16, 2009
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thanatos388 said:
While you can still share disc based games you cannot game share and sony will most definitely move in a more digital centered market in the near future.
as pc/Steam fan, i think its great if they do, so long as it isnt on a closed platform
 

Saltyk

Sane among the insane.
Sep 12, 2010
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Thank God for Jim.

As you said Jim. The problem is that Microsoft has declared war on the consumer. On me. Just for the crime of trying to use their product. That's not going to fly.

Sony may have done nothing. They may maintain the status quo. But this is one time that is a good thing. Doing nothing is better than making it worse. Often the best intentions have terrible consquences. Though, I don't even think Microsoft had good intentions.

Oh, check Amazon's Top games. Of the top 20, 4 of them are PS4 consoles or bundles. Only one is a XBone. Even going into the top 40, there are still no XBone consoles, though a PS4 Knack bundle shows up. And after that... It's all just PS3 and 360 stuff with some XBone and PS4 games showing up here and there. Now THAT is damning!
 
Dec 16, 2009
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Trishbot said:
Though, I think the Wii U needs some love.
I wont touch a Nintendo product until their conflict mineral rating improves.
which is a shame because i really like the look of Mario Kart 8 (even with the stupid Nintendo control pads)
 

simwaroar5

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{theultimateend} said:
Ok I'll bite.

What does the Xbox One provide me that my Gaming PC that does not?
better.
Okay now I would prefer and Nextbox over a PS4, but I am a PC gamer too. I wouldn't switch to consoles for a Nextbox, but I would get one because I play both my PC and a console. Now as for what makes it special. The family share list that it has allows you to share digital games with up to ten people. If you use Steam like me then you just don't have that option. If your PSN buddies live on the other side of the country it becomes inconvenient. Nextbox also has the primer Motion sensing and voice recognition tech. Now I know you either don't care about, or probably think the Kinect was rubbish. That was a little true last gen, but this up coming one is going to have vastly superior software/hardware for it to the point where it should be able to tell when you are squeezing your hand on the controller. Also for anyone that had a Kinect at the time, hoe cool was it to be able to yell "FUS RO DAH" to use shouts. It has its benefits. I am looking forward to the day it becomes the home Jarvis. though if you don't like it you can turn it off. One feature no one has talked about anywhere, but I read off their website was that the Nextbox will be able to track how you play your games, so when you are offline your friends can create a bot tailored to play just like you, to play with or against. Now I don't mean to come off as a complete dickwad, for supporting the Nextbox, but the way Jim has been railing against it for the past 3 weeks and everyone eating it up has been bugging the hell out of me. He makes a whole bunch of assumption and accusation about how they are trying to screw us over and never talks about the good points of the Nextbox, or any shortcomings the PS4 might have. I just want a fair and balanced argument.
 

Vivi22

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Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
That they're absolutely right?

MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
How brave of you to make a prediction based on zero evidence that can't be tested for two whole years. You must be so knowledgeable to base this opinion on absolutely nothing and expect us to care.
 

Vivi22

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Trishbot said:
Though, I think the Wii U needs some love.
I'll gladly give them some support when they stop relying on gimmicky controllers, drum up some third party support, change their "great first party lineup" to include something that isn't basically a remake of the same games they made almost twenty years ago, make an introductory model that isn't a crippled brick right out of the box, and sell a last generation console for what it's actually worth instead of almost the same price as a PS4.
 

Mister Linton

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Microsoft has set up their system to provide more flexibility for sharing and ownership in an all digital game space. Sony has set up their system to provide more flexibility for sharing and ownership of physical disks. One of these is the future, and one of them is the past.
 

BBboy20

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Mister Linton said:
Microsoft has set up their system to provide more flexibility for sharing and ownership in an all digital game space. Sony has set up their system to provide more flexibility for sharing and ownership of physical disks. One of these is the future, and one of them is the past.
Have M$ clarified and with explicit detail without a shadow of a doubt of what their digital flexibility is? They haven't? Ok, so all they're doing right now is fucking up the Future. Move along now.
 

Disastermouse

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
That's what everyone said about Sony moving to a pay-to-play for multiplayer this gen - and it NEVER HAPPENED. Sure, it's happening NEXT gen, but PS+ is so hilariously better than XBL Gold that it's almost comical. F2P games won't be behind the paywall, MMOs with their own subscription price won't be behind the paywall, and Netflix and all the other things that MS locks behind paywalls won't be locked behind a paywall.

So yeah, judging by this gen, IF Sony implements any of MS's BS, it'll be next-gen, which will make the MS moves irrelevant, as next-gen will be ALL-Digital.
 

Seracen

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Well done sir, I could not have said it more eloquently myself. As always thank the Lord for Jim Sterling.

Seriously though, status quo IS worthy of applause, but it's sad that the situation is such.

EDIT: I will totally consider the Wii-U if...

1) they institute a decent controller that doesn't die twice per sitting (and hurt after a few hours of play)

2) they actually get games

3) they get GOOD exclusives (to be fair, E3 showed me 3 that I wanted...good start)
 

Vausch

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This has honestly gotten me asking, how long will it take for the Xbone to be hacked to delete the DRM effects? And if they do that, will they be sued and cause another Linux PS3 fiasco?
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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Zachary Amaranth said:
canadamus_prime said:
I'd equate this to a Slave Master promising not to use the whips today.
Just slavery? You don't want to go for a full Godwin here?

It's a little over the top to compare standard consumer practices to slavery, especially the most abusive practices (and practitioners) of slavery.
"Standard consumer practices???" If the shit Microsoft and others pull is considered standard then things are even worse than I ever imagined. I mean I knew they were in danger of becoming standard, but if they're already standard then we've already lost.
 

Dark Knifer

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zalithar said:
RandV80 said:
thanatos388 said:
While you can still share disc based games you cannot game share and sony will most definitely move in a more digital centered market in the near future.
You mean like the Microsoft's 10 family member thingy?

I don't know about that, if you interpret their system in the most gamer friendly manner popular then you would have a system that does far more damage to the publishers than used games ever could. Microsoft wouldn't give the publishers such a big bone only to take them behind the shed and shoot em.

Fundamentally though, I would say the system their implementing has everything to do with disc based game sharing. Unlike Steam which is more for personal use, the Xbox One will typically sit in the living room and for larger households be a family device. If little Timmy has an Xbox live account and little brother Jimmy also has his own, it would be suicide for MS to suggest the parents need to buy two 'licenses' of a game so they can both play.

That's what needs to be preserved here. If Sony doesn't have this for their digital purchases and you need that functionality, then you can just buy the retail copy.
A little anecdote for you.
My friend has playstation plus and I do not. Mostly because I just haven't gotten around to it, and it's low on my priorities. He came over to my house loaded his profile on my system and downloaded a copy of dungeon defenders to my console so we could play it. After he left I could still play dungeon defenders on my system without logging into his account, or even being logged into the system itself as him. My account can play things his account installed.

Sony kind of has a cut down version of Microsoft's family plan, except their not advertising it as a feature it's just part of the console. It's not as extensive but it works to its own degree.
That's actually really awesome, even better then steam in my case. I got a disc version of left 4 dead 2 and put on the pc but it had installed it on my brothers account and we couldn't find a way to transferring it over to my account so I'm stuck playing it on his account.

Steam is cool and all I just wished they didn't hate physical copies as much as they do.

OT: Maintaining policy is significant, I mean when a government says they shall continue funding particular areas that's always significan and in this case its working very well for sony.
 

Baresark

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simwaroar5 said:
Yes what PS4 did is exactly the same as the PS3 and 360, because there is nothing new they are just selling updated graphics and coming out with some new sequels everyone has been asking for and their own exclusives. That's it!
That is pretty much what everyone wants.... newer, prettier games. They want games that look better and you can do more in. No one wants new ways to watch television or smartglass (the thing that existed before MS decided they were going to do it themselves and give it a stupid name).

Yeah they do add DRM all the time, there will be season passes, microtransactions, day-one dlc. Also Sony never said they had plan's for any digital sharing which Microsoft has. Along with the ability to trade you games in at Gamestop for 32 cents each. Honestly I never trade games in because they never give you anything, but you all want it so bad and you have it, but you are still complaining. The only people they are screwing over are the little games stores, but as we enter a digital age they are going away anyway.
No one is denying that the world is moving towards a digital age. But MS is simply using that excuse to put more restrictions on customers, not to actually make anything innovative. The things is, Sony said they weren't going to build DRM into the system and that first party titles would not be using it. But any publisher that wishes to use online passes or whatever they want to use, is free to. I'm with you though, I don't trade in games. The few console titles I buy are ones that I never plan on trading in. That said, I don't think people buy many digital titles with the intention of trading them in. The ability to give a digital title to a friend is awesome, but it's rendered almost useless because it still negates game sharing with friends. You can't lend it to a friend and give it back. And that person then cannot lend or give it to another friend once they have it. It's neat but at the same time completely useless. It's not innovative or even a good idea, ultimately, because of that very restriction.

Yeah well if consoles start adopting the Steam model (which Microsoft has been edging towards with all the new sales and the dedicated sale section of their marketplace) then it will be a great innovation. along with all the added game play benefits of the Kinect 2.
We all know that is happening. Consoles are years behind the PC on that front. But you can buy lots of digital titles from lots of locations with varying prices. Steam is only one of many digital platforms on the PC. For either MS or Sony, it won't be like that. There will be the Sony Store and MS Store, and that is it. There will be no competition, no competitive pricing, they are both literally shooting themselves in the foot, but MS is doing a much better shooting job than Sony. That is by making restrictions such as the necessity to connect to their server every 24 hours. We have awesome internet in my house. My room mate loves his 360. But that alone is making him buy Sony this time around.
 

anthony87

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DTWolfwood said:
Could have mentioned the one downside to the whole thing, having to pay for multiplayer now.

Microsoft just straight up gave its customers the middle finger and ram its cock into their asses! Sony was kind enough to buy their customers dinner before just slipping in the tip :p
Even with that there's a couple of....silver linings? Yes you have to pay but PS+ is cheaper, gives you PS Store discounts and you get monthly free games.

Plus while it's needed to play online multiplayer that only counts for games you buy, you won't need a subscription to play any of the F2P games.
 

Atmos Duality

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Well, when you're sitting on the doorstep of the gaming "apocalypse" (*rolls eyes*) those who are going with the status quo (of a better, more stable time) are going to win by default.

As long as it has games worth playing of course.
 

Gray Firion

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Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
Ah yes, Miyamoto made me chuckle with that one. ^^

OT: Even though Sony deserves praise for doing nothing (in itself something that boggles the mind), for me, from the very beggining it wasn't about something new. I wanted to see something old.

I harped and will continue to harp on the Xbone with everything I've got and with everyone else, because something this draconic should not be. The Wii U will only stay in the sidelines until a Mario/Zelda/Metroid/Smash bros. is launched and I hope it picks up the pace, if only for the Xbone to fail compared not just to the PS4, but also to the currently failing Wii U.

Still, if I get a PS4, I'll only do it after the launch of Final Fantasy XV or Kingdom Hearts 3 (if I can get the whole continuity squared away before its launch will be a miracle in and of itself, stupid 1-game-for-every-console-in-the-market series -.-).

What I really wanted, was backwards compatibility. Not for the PS3, I understand why the capability for PS3 games isn't there (what with the whole shooting themselves on the foot with Cell thing). But why not for PS2? Do you remember the size of the game library for that thing? I gave away mine as a gift when the PS3's still read PS2 games (which in turn broke and I had to get one that didn't), so instead of saving money for a PS4, first and foremost I'll do it for a PS2. Way too many good games sitting on my shelf gathering dust right now.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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thanatos388 said:
While you can still share disc based games you cannot game share and sony will most definitely move in a more digital centered market in the near future.
Once the global internet structure can handle it, yes they will. But they are smart enough to know the world's internet is less than perfect.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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Sony didn't do nothing, they put in fucking paid online. That's a disadvantage. It could have been just a PS3 but better, but it isn't, it's also got paid online, but people are willing to brush that aside somewhat because in all other respects it's brilliant in comparison to the Xbone trainwreck and somewhat because so far PS+ has been excellent value for money.
 

darksakul

Old Man? I am not that old .....
Jun 14, 2008
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JSW said:
"Microsoft has declared war on the consumer."

They've been at war for the last twenty years. It's nice that the general population is finally starting to notice, but this is SOP for Microsoft: Pump money into a new product until they've driven out the competition, then once the consumers have no choice they squeeze them for all they're worth. Only difference is that they got impatient this time and forgot that Sony's not out of the game yet.
This, this statement a thousand times over It can't be said better, but I will rant anyways.

Game Over Microsoft, you failed with the merger of web and TV one time too many and now your gaming division is going to get Gangrene (Didn't you learn when you burned WebTV to the ground). My advice to Microsoft, cut off the infected limb I mean division of your Company (in this case the whole gaming arm of Microsoft). Go back to cheating your legitimate MS office customers and Leave the Game Consoles to those who are not douche-bags.

In retrospect, Sony is sort of like Tyrion Lannister. Tyrion Lannister is a likable character on Game of Thrones because unlike the rest of his family he isn't a dick. Tyrion is a hero just because he refuse act like the rest of the Lannister Family (and he ***** slaps Joffrey).

So guess what Microsoft, Sony ***** slap you, but unlike Tyrion Sony is no Dwarf, Sony is a Giant.

Also the Xbone is using a bluray drive, who developed and back Bluray? SONY!
 

chozo_hybrid

Jund 'Em Out!
Jul 15, 2009
3,456
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008Zulu said:
thanatos388 said:
While you can still share disc based games you cannot game share and sony will most definitely move in a more digital centered market in the near future.
Once the global internet structure can handle it, yes they will. But they are smart enough to know the world's internet is less than perfect.
Exactly, plenty of countries, mine included simply don't have unlimited internet at an affordable price for most of the public. All this talk of cloud gaming and such make me wonder how quick my bandwidth would be used up by Xbox One, that's another thing that other countries have to worry about. These are things that someone with internet in other countries have to worry about, there will be problems.

MeChaNiZ3D said:
Sony didn't do nothing, they put in fucking paid online. That's a disadvantage. It could have been just a PS3 but better, but it isn't, it's also got paid online, but people are willing to brush that aside somewhat because in all other respects it's brilliant in comparison to the Xbone trainwreck and somewhat because so far PS+ has been excellent value for money.
A lot of people already have PS+, so it doesn't seem as big a deal, but I agree with the sentiment, they did add paid online play. Then again, I don't know how expensive it is to run the stuff.
 

zerabp

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I just want to point out another thing that SONY did that is still the same that they could have changed pretty damned quietly with little uproar, region locks. Unlike both of their competitors their system continues being region free. They could have changed this without offending the majority of gamers but even here they chose the right thing for the consumer. Considering their past with consumer rights issues their actions, or rather their inaction, is most certainly laudable. Thanks as always Jim.
 

Revolutionary

Pub Club Am Broken
May 30, 2009
1,833
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While I don't think Sony deserve as much credit as they are getting in this video I will say this..
 

Cid Silverwing

Paladin of The Light
Jul 27, 2008
3,134
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Terrible, isn't it?

To my understanding, M$ decided the best direction to go is to burrow straight through the planet and into the deepest pits of Hell. Sony, meanwhile, has found a position that, while still imperfect, still treats customers with the most respect (I'm still condemning the PS Gold subscription shit they're forcing on the PS4). For people to applaud Sony for literally not doing anything but maintain their position while M$ faceplanted so hard its face is a frying pan, that's a display of how much positivity you can get by doing the right thing, and then STICKING TO IT.
 

JSW

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simwaroar5 said:
Okay now I would prefer and Nextbox over a PS4, but I am a PC gamer too. I wouldn't switch to consoles for a Nextbox, but I would get one because I play both my PC and a console. Now as for what makes it special. The family share list that it has allows you to share digital games with up to ten people. If you use Steam like me then you just don't have that option. If your PSN buddies live on the other side of the country it becomes inconvenient. Nextbox also has the primer Motion sensing and voice recognition tech. Now I know you either don't care about, or probably think the Kinect was rubbish. That was a little true last gen, but this up coming one is going to have vastly superior software/hardware for it to the point where it should be able to tell when you are squeezing your hand on the controller. Also for anyone that had a Kinect at the time, hoe cool was it to be able to yell "FUS RO DAH" to use shouts. It has its benefits. I am looking forward to the day it becomes the home Jarvis. though if you don't like it you can turn it off. One feature no one has talked about anywhere, but I read off their website was that the Nextbox will be able to track how you play your games, so when you are offline your friends can create a bot tailored to play just like you, to play with or against. Now I don't mean to come off as a complete dickwad, for supporting the Nextbox, but the way Jim has been railing against it for the past 3 weeks and everyone eating it up has been bugging the hell out of me. He makes a whole bunch of assumption and accusation about how they are trying to screw us over and never talks about the good points of the Nextbox, or any shortcomings the PS4 might have. I just want a fair and balanced argument.
Why do people supporting indefensible positions always post these godawful walls of text? Do you think that if nobody can read your argument nobody can disagree and you "win" by default?
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
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empirialtank said:
Congratulations Jim you now understand how conservatives feel about most politics. A lack of progress is preferable to getting screwed up the arse.

OT: I really hope that Sony does stay true to the promises they made at E3, if they do i see this being a rather good console generation for them. But the eternal pessimist in me is saying that all good things will come to an end and eventually Sony is going to turn on us. Probably through some terrible all digital distribution system.
So, your comment that actually relates to the topic is what you mark "Off Topic", but the weird political comment isn't?
 

Stryc9

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Irridium said:
Freaky Constantina!

YEAH YEAH!

[sub]yo motherfucka![/sub]

...

Oh, and good video, I guess. Could have used more mesh tank-tops, though.

It's also kind of a shame that gaming has gotten to the point where Sony says it won't completely dick people over, and everyone cheers. That's videogames now.
Sony, put on your mesh tanktop!
 

Bruce

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
That still makes them a year or two better than Microsoft.
 

tardcore

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
You know you're right. Its just like how unjustified the hate is for the Xbone right now as, mark my words, after a year or two Microsoft will pull a 180.

Gee sounds kind of stupid when said like that eh?

Anyway good work again Jim. Always fun to watch the delusional Xbone creators have their scrotum used as a punching bag.
 

Foolery

No.
Jun 5, 2013
1,714
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Loki_The_Good said:
MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
I love how defense for Microsoft has now devolved from justifying there terrible practices to trying to convince everybody that Sony will be just as bad at some fixed date. It's like "hey guys I know candidate A is going to make cutting off hands mandatory but vote for him anyways because even though candidate B is promising free puppies instead I think he'll eventually come on board to beheadings". Well you know what even if that's true (and I think that's more of a wishful assumption or overt cynisism) I'll take the two years of puppies to an immediate beheading any day of the week.
I fail to see how that's defense for Microsoft. I never put trust in any major corporation. Sony, Microsoft, or otherwise. Simple. Some cynicism is healthy. Sony's perfectly capable of doing similar tactics. But I don't think it's in their best interest right now.
 

Joccaren

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simwaroar5 said:
The family share list that it has allows you to share digital games with up to ten people. If you use Steam like me then you just don't have that option. If your PSN buddies live on the other side of the country it becomes inconvenient.
This is something that needs to be done more on the PC. SC2s spawning pool thing is great, but more games need to adopt an equivalent of that.

Nextbox also has the primer Motion sensing and voice recognition tech. Now I know you either don't care about, or probably think the Kinect was rubbish. That was a little true last gen, but this up coming one is going to have vastly superior software/hardware for it to the point where it should be able to tell when you are squeezing your hand on the controller. Also for anyone that had a Kinect at the time, hoe cool was it to be able to yell "FUS RO DAH" to use shouts. It has its benefits. I am looking forward to the day it becomes the home Jarvis. though if you don't like it you can turn it off.
There is a PC version of the Kinect to, and PC Skyrim was using voice shouts before Xbox Skyrim through mods. Aka: PC can do that. Plus I'm pretty sure someone in another argument bought up that turning the Kinect of turns the Xbox off too, do need to check for citation though.

One feature no one has talked about anywhere, but I read off their website was that the Nextbox will be able to track how you play your games, so when you are offline your friends can create a bot tailored to play just like you, to play with or against.
That'll be up to the developers actually, who'll have to actually code all that stuff. Its just the fact that "the cloud" exists that this is something that could hypothetically happen, and seeing as the PC has had this capability for years and its never been used... I'm doubting they'll do it for the Xbone. Hell, generally these sorts of things are counted as hacking in games, and accounts that do it are banned. Will be interesting to see if more official support makes a difference though.
 

loa

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They didn't do "nothing", they are now holding the multiplayer parts of games hostage like microsoft does with their xbox live "service" too which was, mind you, the only advantage the ps3 had over the 360.
Sony fucked up too but no one cares because microsofts fuckup of biblical proportions makes them look like the second coming of christ.

So you can't really say sony doesn't do its share of chipping away consumer freedom.
 

piinyouri

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Deadcyde said:
MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
probably true, but they have been spanked pretty hard in the past for being dick holes. Maybe they've figured out they need to be jerks in small manageable doses instead of huge clusterfucks like the xbone and Diablo 3

wait... diablo 3 is coming to ps4 and it's an always online game right?



fucking son of a *****.
If someone else already answered this I apologize for clogging up your notifications, but the PS4 copy of D3 will not have an online requirement.
 

DoctorImpossible

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
So wait two years and post again. Right now, it's completely irrelevant.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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chozo_hybrid said:
All this talk of cloud gaming and such make me wonder how quick my bandwidth would be used up by Xbox One, that's another thing that other countries have to worry about. These are things that someone with internet in other countries have to worry about, there will be problems.
Xbone will require, at minimum (it appears), a 1.5mb/s connection. For comparison, my phone has about an 8mb/s (at the best of times, horrible data plan [meh]). I downloaded a 1gb file in about 6 minutes. Cloud gaming could conceivably use 3-4gb per day depending on your usage.
 

WWmelb

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008Zulu said:
chozo_hybrid said:
All this talk of cloud gaming and such make me wonder how quick my bandwidth would be used up by Xbox One, that's another thing that other countries have to worry about. These are things that someone with internet in other countries have to worry about, there will be problems.
Xbone will require, at minimum (it appears), a 1.5mb/s connection. For comparison, my phone has about an 8mb/s (at the best of times, horrible data plan [meh]). I downloaded a 1gb file in about 6 minutes. Cloud gaming could conceivably use 3-4gb per day depending on your usage.
Questing as i've never hear it vocalized. Is the 1.5mb/s connection required for XBox One a megabit or megabyte connection?

I can tell you now if it's megabyte then Australia is pretty much out for 2 -3 years of ever using this thing, unless one is lucky enough to be in an area that already has fiber connectivity. I could count on one hand the amount of times i've managed to get 1.5mb/second transfer with combined up and down.
 

Monsterfurby

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A normal day in the PS4 marketing department:
1. Come to work.
2. Look up what Microsoft is doing.
3. Smile.
4. Go home.
5. Another successful day.
 

punipunipyo

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M$'s Xbone, and it's policies... I couldn't say it better, by kissing the boot of the publishers, M$ had declared the war on (not SONY, not nintendo, not apple, but no) YOU; the consumers... yes, the very people who are actually PAYING FOR EVERY STINKY BREATH COMING OUT FROM THIS CORRUPTED INDUSTRIES ASS-MOUTH...

One thing, I hated as I was young, my mother calls video-games as "DRUGS", I had always refuted it harshly, telling her that it was totally just having fun, like a toy for older people.... simply a hobby, like movie watching... But lately, after the M$ revealing... I wondered... the steps this industry took to "get control over our wallet"... isn't it "like drug"? First, it was free, then, little money, then price go up, then they want us to jump hoops to get more, now they want us to check up daily, and have registry... Even paid, AAA games have strings attached... like Jim said a while ago... You don't OWN the game you spent 60 bux to buy, you get license to run/play it.

I call piracy a lie/myth/conspiracy cooked up by the publishers, it MAY damage the sales, but when a company makes a game, and millions of copies sold, but they still claim it came "short", something is wrong... it's not that people are not buying, it's NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE BUYING to satisfy the company's dream...
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

(Insert witty quote here)
Sep 10, 2008
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simwaroar5 said:
{theultimateend} said:
Ok I'll bite.

What does the Xbox One provide me that my Gaming PC that does not?
better.
Also for anyone that had a Kinect at the time, hoe cool was it to be able to yell "FUS RO DAH" to use shouts. It has its benefits. I am looking forward to the day it becomes the home Jarvis.
Yeah, ThuuMic was pretty fu...

Kinect?

I thought you were talking about the Mod.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/5626/?
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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WWmelb said:
Questing as i've never hear it vocalized. Is the 1.5mb/s connection required for XBox One a megabit or megabyte connection?

I can tell you now if it's megabyte then Australia is pretty much out for 2 -3 years of ever using this thing, unless one is lucky enough to be in an area that already has fiber connectivity. I could count on one hand the amount of times i've managed to get 1.5mb/second transfer with combined up and down.
Interesting first question. I would think megabyte due to the data being transmitted. In Australia, you'd likely be fine if you were in either Sydney, Brisbane or Melbourne. Adelaide is a hit and miss affair from what I'm told. I have only gotten the speeds I mentioned because I am right on the edge of the 4G envelope from my nearby airport.

But yeah, most (80-85%) of Microsoft's current consumer base in Australia probably won't be getting the Xbone because of these speeds.
 

MercurySteam

Tastes Like Chicken!
Apr 11, 2008
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Another great vid with excellent points made Jim. I especially enjoyed your rendition of "Yeah" by Usher.
 

thanatos388

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008Zulu said:
thanatos388 said:
While you can still share disc based games you cannot game share and sony will most definitely move in a more digital centered market in the near future.
Once the global internet structure can handle it, yes they will. But they are smart enough to know the world's internet is less than perfect.
Right like Microsoft. I think if they feel they can push digital distribution they will as much as they can. They just won't be the pricks MS was about it and try to shove it down our mouths ASAP.
 

WWmelb

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008Zulu said:
WWmelb said:
Questing as i've never hear it vocalized. Is the 1.5mb/s connection required for XBox One a megabit or megabyte connection?

I can tell you now if it's megabyte then Australia is pretty much out for 2 -3 years of ever using this thing, unless one is lucky enough to be in an area that already has fiber connectivity. I could count on one hand the amount of times i've managed to get 1.5mb/second transfer with combined up and down.
Interesting first question. I would think megabyte due to the data being transmitted. In Australia, you'd likely be fine if you were in either Sydney, Brisbane or Melbourne. Adelaide is a hit and miss affair from what I'm told. I have only gotten the speeds I mentioned because I am right on the edge of the 4G envelope from my nearby airport.

But yeah, most (80-85%) of Microsoft's current consumer base in Australia probably won't be getting the Xbone because of these speeds.
Living in melbourne, my average speed (combined down/up) is around 1.1mb/s. And that is when downloading from stable servers, soo.. i'd be screwed.

I'm actually disappointed by all this shit around this console, it's the first time some of the exclusives on xbox have actually made me interested in the console, but alas, no project spark for me :( Can't tolerate. Don't want.

captcha: red herring... hrmm oh really...
 

DTWolfwood

Better than Vash!
Oct 20, 2009
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anthony87 said:
DTWolfwood said:
Could have mentioned the one downside to the whole thing, having to pay for multiplayer now.

Microsoft just straight up gave its customers the middle finger and ram its cock into their asses! Sony was kind enough to buy their customers dinner before just slipping in the tip :p
Even with that there's a couple of....silver linings? Yes you have to pay but PS+ is cheaper, gives you PS Store discounts and you get monthly free games.

Plus while it's needed to play online multiplayer that only counts for games you buy, you won't need a subscription to play any of the F2P games.
Look you don't have to justify it to me i know PS+ is a better deal. I've never played online games with my console so its not even an issue with me. PS4 is the superior product in all respect. Just in the name of fairness, it should have been noted. What once was free now isn't.
 

chstens

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This is exactly what I've been saying since the Sony E3 conference. They're being praised for not trying to shove barbed wire up our asses. They're heroes for doing absolutely nothing.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Dead Century said:
Loki_The_Good said:
MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
I love how defense for Microsoft has now devolved from justifying there terrible practices to trying to convince everybody that Sony will be just as bad at some fixed date. It's like "hey guys I know candidate A is going to make cutting off hands mandatory but vote for him anyways because even though candidate B is promising free puppies instead I think he'll eventually come on board to beheadings". Well you know what even if that's true (and I think that's more of a wishful assumption or overt cynisism) I'll take the two years of puppies to an immediate beheading any day of the week.
I fail to see how that's defense for Microsoft. I never put trust in any major corporation. Sony, Microsoft, or otherwise. Simple. Some cynicism is healthy. Sony's perfectly capable of doing similar tactics. But I don't think it's in their best interest right now.
It's a defense in that they're all the same in the end so theirs no reason not to buy an xbox mentality. As for trust like I said it's not about trust. It's about doing what you can with the information you have at the time. Maybe they will maybe they won't. I don't trust them to never do it. I just want to take advantage of it so long as they aren't.
 

Arppis

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
That depends entirely on how many people are cool about what Microsoft is doing. You know why Sony now is ok with charging people with online gaming? Because Players are cool with it. They are thinking it's fine to pay extra fee for Microsoft just so that they can use some party chat and play online.

If players choose to buy Microsoft's console and they are ok with DRM they are ok with always online and such. I guess I can see Sony turning around. It really is upto what players want.

So if you don't want that to happen, buy something else than XboxOne. Because if Sony finds this strategy working, it WILL continue doing it. If they won't, people will abandon the ship for sure.
 

ShadowHamster

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CrossLOPER said:
I think the truth is far darker....

In what way is this "darker", this is business at work! This is seriously what is always happening behind the scenes, and if you don't believe me go read any articles on MTV vs Much Music(or VH1 before an aggresive buyout) or Disney channel vs. Nickelodeon.

Yes, businesses target other businesses, but how is that "evil". That is the competition, and if the competition does something that could be considered unintelligent, you don't politely inform them, you kick their feet out from under them. I don't support Capitalism, I think it's a draconic and sad state of affairs to let greed be a determinant of power. Once upon a time it was important to civilization that business have the chance to bloom, but it's gone far enough.

However, I UNDERSTAND it. This is standard business practice 101, and where as it's interesting, it's not anything new, different, or creepy. If Sony was putting brainwashing chemicals in the water, that would be evil, them attacking Microsoft to get the love of the people? Standard practice: Microsoft has indirectly attacked the playerbase, and Sony ran with that info and managed to throw a pie in Microsoft's face. It's almost exactly like politics, and there a politician can find a reason to attack another politician EVEN WHEN NO ONE HAS DONE ANYTHING WRONG!!!(Just look up all the idiots who think Obama messed up in the middle east by not supporting the good guys...WHAT GOOD GUYS! ARE WE IN A COMIC BOOK!?!?!?)
 

ShadowHamster

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Shdwrnr said:
Mick P. said:
Shdwrnr said:
Does nobody remember the last time Sony promised a feature that people got really excited about? How are those Linux PS3's doing now anyway?
I installed Linux on mine. But it was a lot of work to switch between Linux and Xross. In Linux there were no hardware accelerated 3D graphics drivers. Last I checked that hadn't changed.

If anyone knows otherwise, please quote this so I will see your reply in the site's PM inbox.
The point was that OtherOS was a feature that Sony promised. They created it, they shipped it, then they changed their minds and stripped it out in a firmware update and started litigation on an enthusiest who showed people how to do it anyway. Sony has made promises of features in the past and thought nothing of tearing them away from you even post purchase. I don't see how people can trust their claims now after seeing what they think of their own promises.

hermes200 said:
MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
Perhaps, but so far we have no reason to believe so.
See above.
All this could be seen as an accident that Sony has spent much time righting. In fact, one of the reasons they obviously want to move to PS4 is all the MISTAKES on the PS3. Just so you know, the PS3 was my system last generation, and I'm probably going to wait for all THREE(because I'm honestly most impressed with the wiiu after playing it at my friends house, just Nintendo Land was a blast with hours of unlockables and very different gameplay from anything I've experienced. It's really not just another wii resort) until I see how the market goes, which I did with PS3, meaning I bought it when it was 300 for the best model, and they had fully paved out what they were offering.

All that said, the OtherOS option pissed me off too, but not as much as Microsoft's policy of charging me again for the internet I was already purchasing(something that may throw me off the PS4, but we'll see how they handle PS+ moving forward, if it still feels like being part of a cool club with free games and content, consider me all in.), so I got it anyway knowing it's primary purpose was going to be playing games.

Now, the REASON Sony made those decisions become obvious as you watch the shit storm that came after, the PS3 was a complicated system with holes all through it's infrastructure, and the company became very afraid of it being cracked and their industry secrets being destroyed. They made harsh decisions to protect, harsh decisions that are not easily forgiven for sure, but it's not the same situation at all.

After that generation Sony coming out and saying, "we don't want to attack our customers" is kind of them taking the first step in rectifying a long line of mistakes, and I can respect that. I don't think it's worth going to X-Bone(yeah, nice "NEXTBOX", real clever trying to give it a nice nickname) just because Sony made mistakes 5 years ago(longer probably but I ruled on the other side because I didn't want to look things up), I think these promises are the right move for Sony, and I'll probably wait a couple of years to see what is what.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.

you misspelled Microsoft.

completely understandable though, Microsoft does act as if everyone who wants a Cable Box are dumb enough to have a video and voice recorder in their living room.

But it's okay, because it wont do anything you dont expressively allow it to do*.

[small]bet you anything the EULA automatically allows the Kinect to do things, but it's okay, to turn off those restrictions features, you simply dont agree to the EULA and continue enjoying your brick of a console[/small].



OT: It's sad when the best thing out of E3 is an announcement that a console developer is going to continue doing what it did in the last generation mechanics wise.

Thankfully Microsoft already told me that I should keep my 360, that if I only want to play games I should get a PS4, and that I'm not a real person because my internet sucks.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
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WWmelb said:
Questing as i've never hear it vocalized. Is the 1.5mb/s connection required for XBox One a megabit or megabyte connection?
People really need to learn how to use units properly.

M = Mega
m = Milli
B = Byte
b = Bit

1.5mb/s doesn't make any sense - who would measure something in thousandths of a bit? It should be 1.5Mb/s.

Similarly, one megabyte is 1MB, not 1mb.

The standard unit for network throughput is in bits per second, not bytes. So, when people are abusing their units with improper capitalization, it's probably best to assume that mbps or mb/s are referring to bits (or assume that the person improperly using these units doesn't know what they are talking about).
 

MrHide-Patten

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Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
If the Wii-U had more games in its Library, people wouldn't desperately hold onto anything that's good. Oh yes, I went there. I'm classy like that.
 

thepyrethatburns

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MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
Possibly. Currently, my bathroom reading is an old OPM where Jack Tretton was claiming that the Cell would be easy to program for as long as you knew basic C/C+. As with many things about the PS3 that corporate was saying at launch, that turned out to be a lie. Then there are the other issues such as the whole credit card thing and Sony's marketing department being completely incompetent for both the PSP and the PS3 at the time of the PS3 launch.

But that doesn't matter. IF Sony pulls a 180, there will be time to rip them apart then Right now, while Microsoft is shooting itself in the foot to the point that it's hard to believe that Microsoft is not deliberately trying to sabotage itself, Sony has their act together. Their marketing is on track and they're taking note of what the market wants.

Maybe Sony will pull a 180. In fact, if the Wii U and the Xbone continue to flounder as badly as they are, it is not unreasonable to see the next-gen console race end up as a one-horse race. If that happens, Sony certainly will pull a 180.

But that's only a possible future. The present situation is that Sony is currently the best choice for the next-gen market and they're doing it through clever marketing and not screwing the customer over. Until there's any evidence of Sony pulling a 180, the applause is still somewhat justified.
 

Nazulu

They will not take our Fluids
Jun 5, 2008
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I would go as far to say that it is doing something great by not giving into this greed, but your explanation is good too.

Love the ending, reminded me of Roger Waters in The Trial and you ended with a perfect fuck you.
 

Sofus

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Isn't it possible to use steam on the consoles? if valve bring game sharing to its steam program then the xbox one might just be the better choice (for me atleast). Now I don't own a console, and haven't owned one the last decade, but if steam add's game sharing (and if the xbox one can use steam) then I would probably be interested in buying one.

I hate having physical copies of my games, as the cd's always end up with a few scratches not to mention the number of a cd keys i've lost simply because I moved to a new home and the manual to the game somehow got lost or thrown away in the mess.
 

Mazimadu

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Sofus said:
Isn't it possible to use steam on the consoles?
That is never going to happen. I recall Gabe Newell stating that MS tries to nickel and dime developers every time they try to add digital content to any of their games. Wither it be patches, DLC or updates. This is the reason why the orange box and Left4dead have no DLC updates. I also recall a similar thing for Fez when it was released.

Besides, Xbox live is already an online client. Why would MS allow a competitor service on its own device.
 

ugxwolf

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MrHide-Patten said:
Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
If the Wii-U had more games in its Library, people wouldn't desperately hold onto anything that's good. Oh yes, I went there. I'm classy like that.
If other companies made games with even remotely as much replayability, I'd consider this a good argument. There's just one problem. They generally don't. Want proof? Go look at the yearly sales for any notable Wii game from the console's early days. Mario Kart Wii and Brawl are still selling well, 5-7 years after launch. That's because they're still good.

Besides your whole argument hinges on the idea that anyone /needs/ to buy a Wii U to play Nintendo games, or that Nintendo is even relying on the Wii U to make them money. Your whole argument falls apart, because all we have to do is occupy our time with the 3DS and whatever else we feel like playing until the Wii U has a good enough gaming library, which for me, is around the last three months of the year.
 

MrHide-Patten

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ugxwolf said:
If other companies made games with even remotely as much replayability, I'd consider this a good argument. There's just one problem. They generally don't. Want proof? Go look at the yearly sales for any notable Wii game from the console's early days. Mario Kart Wii and Brawl are still selling well, 5-7 years after launch. That's because they're still good.

Besides your whole argument hinges on the idea that anyone /needs/ to buy a Wii U to play Nintendo games, or that Nintendo is even relying on the Wii U to make them money. Your whole argument falls apart, because all we have to do is occupy our time with the 3DS and whatever else we feel like playing until the Wii U has a good enough gaming library, which for me, is around the last three months of the year.
Besides the fact I was being hyperbolic, if I was a retailer and some family bought a really cheap console (the Wii) the selection of games I would recommend them would be rather slim, only an asshole would push shovel ware (which the Wii has in droves). So yeah of course those games still sell, fuck any game still sells well that had a positive reception.

I'm not getting the Wii-U personally because there's nothing there that makes me jump out of my seat to buy it. It also suffers from having a gimmick that's harder to market than the Wii's motion controls, and the whole tablet market has been dominated by Apple and Android devices. I don't see the lightning striking twice, and whilst their initiative to get more 3rd party dev's interested is good, it's undone by the PS4 and Xbox 1 being vastly more powerful than it, leaving it on the same position the Wii was in.

If the system came out with a genuine Mario game (like 64, Sunshine, or Galaxy), Legend of Zelda, or a Metroid game. People would be really jumping onto it. I bought the Wii because I thought Twilight Princess looked cool, and Metroid Prime 3 is one of my favorite games from this gen. So I'm not railing against Nintendo here out of spite or something, just walking by a restaurant that's serving breakfast at lunch.
 

MichaelMaverick

New member
Jan 28, 2009
65
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It's funny because realistically Sony had no other option than doing nothing. The most you can be thankful for is that they're not equally as retarded as Microsoft. I don't begrudge them their dressing it up as an act of kindness they went out of their way to do, but everyone who ate that PR bullshit up is shallow and should probably explode themselves.
 

LordMonty

Badgerlord
Jul 2, 2008
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Bit late in posting due to being away but all of this just makes me pleased for us as gamers. Microsoft was damning us and Sony kept the faith. Gave the standard we expected and the hope that this'll all be ok and we'll be treated resonably. They didn't do much but in a way they did a lot.
 

Bujiraso

New member
Feb 12, 2011
103
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Amen Jim.
Microsoft is indeed against the consumer.
Or perhaps, more accurately, *for* corporations. Which nearly always falls against the consumer.