Jimquisition: PS4 - Doing Nothing, Meaning Everything

Vkmies

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Awesome Podtoid reference! Always appreciate those :D

PUT ON YOUR MESH TANK TOPS!
 

scorptatious

The Resident Team ICO Fanboy
May 14, 2009
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Yeah, I can see your point. But hey, right now it's still a better alternative to the XBOX ONE. As others have said, I do hope Sony keeps their promises.
 

zalithar

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RandV80 said:
thanatos388 said:
While you can still share disc based games you cannot game share and sony will most definitely move in a more digital centered market in the near future.
You mean like the Microsoft's 10 family member thingy?

I don't know about that, if you interpret their system in the most gamer friendly manner popular then you would have a system that does far more damage to the publishers than used games ever could. Microsoft wouldn't give the publishers such a big bone only to take them behind the shed and shoot em.

Fundamentally though, I would say the system their implementing has everything to do with disc based game sharing. Unlike Steam which is more for personal use, the Xbox One will typically sit in the living room and for larger households be a family device. If little Timmy has an Xbox live account and little brother Jimmy also has his own, it would be suicide for MS to suggest the parents need to buy two 'licenses' of a game so they can both play.

That's what needs to be preserved here. If Sony doesn't have this for their digital purchases and you need that functionality, then you can just buy the retail copy.
A little anecdote for you.
My friend has playstation plus and I do not. Mostly because I just haven't gotten around to it, and it's low on my priorities. He came over to my house loaded his profile on my system and downloaded a copy of dungeon defenders to my console so we could play it. After he left I could still play dungeon defenders on my system without logging into his account, or even being logged into the system itself as him. My account can play things his account installed.

Sony kind of has a cut down version of Microsoft's family plan, except their not advertising it as a feature it's just part of the console. It's not as extensive but it works to its own degree.
 

Arcade Hero X

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Wasn't the PS3 basically a more powerful console then the xbox360 but the 3rd party games had never shown that. This was because it would have taken them longer and cost more to make games to fully utilize the power of the PS3 so they just settled on a standard that looked great on both console but the PS3 could have looked better.

I personally believe that when microsoft was saying that it's awesome server cap of 300,000 and its cloud services will not get properly utilized by 3rd party devs because they will not want to spend the extra bit to add on the features. So the really cool stuff the Xbone could possibly do will only be seen on MS exclusive games and if the 360 is an example there wasn't many exclusives outside FPS games and Alan wake.

I'd be looking forward to see how they work it into Dead rising 3 but I don't think I'll get a Xbone its far to multiplayer based I want my game console to cater to singleplayer first then MP but maybe I'm just old fashioned.
 

synobal

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Anyone who thinks good Journalism is parroting the talking points for both large corporations is wrong. I get that people can get upset when their favorite journalist has an opinion contrary to their own but journalism is more than just repeating the talking points for both corporations out of the fear of being called biased. Jim is doing his job and is doing a great job of it.
 

Big_Isaac

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PainInTheAssInternet said:
Big_Isaac said:
what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?
I don't think it holds true. Not for me at least. I buy nearly all my games from the bargain bin (I play PS3 predominantly). The only games this gen that I bought full price (personally, not as gifts) are Far Cry 3 and (preordered Collector's Edition) Aliens; Colonial marines. I cancelled the latter.

One of the reasons is that it's very common for games to be re-released a few years later with all the DLC for 1/3rd the price of the original game without DLC.

For example, I got GTA 4 with all 3 campaigns for $20 Canadian. It's a difficult decision to buy new when I know that I can get fantastic bargains like that in the not-too-distant future.

EDIT

Sorry, I misread.

It is a bit dismissive of the great games that get overlooked, but I think it was aimed at the generic FPS crowd. If that's the case, I agree. If he's stating it as absolute universally-applicable fact, he's wrong as indicated with my example above.
yes, Reggie directed that mainly at devs of annual games like CoD and Madden

basically "We here at Nintendo aren't worried about used games because people WANT to keep playing Mario Kart. people WANT to keep playing ... . we don't do annual game updates, so used games aren't an issue for us"
or something along those lines
 

klaynexas3

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hentropy said:
"Or just buy a gaming PC and have an awesome life."

That's basically what I was thinking the whole episode.
You know, some of the major problems people have with the Xbone are the same reasons why they can't get into PC gaming. Probably why it's such an elite club. Perhaps the Xbone can provide another group like the PC master race that'd probably be more annoying with less reasons to feel superior.
 

Callate

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Amen. Hallelujiah. Praise be to Sterling.

Now I can stop saying virtually the same thing over and over and just link to the Jimquisition. And get suspended for low-content posting... crap.

Will add the proviso (that I've also been repeating) that although the PS4 may have left some DRM decisions up to publishers, they haven't given those publishers a gun to point at us the way Microsoft has. A game with DRM that requires it to connect to the Internet leaves a significant portion of the PS4 user base out in the cold, whereas Microsoft has bent over backwards to be sure every loyal consumer came market-equipped with a killswitch.

I also note that in punishing retail gaming Microsoft is pointing towards a future where gaming is only for people who have credit cards... or are willing to punt in long access codes every time they want to buy a game digitally. (Next version of Kinnect going to come with a freaking bar code scanner?!)

Deadcyde said:
wait... diablo 3 is coming to ps4 and it's an always online game right?

fucking son of a *****.
...Maybe not.

[link]http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/26/the-ps4-version-of-diablo-3-will-have-offline-co-op-no-word-on-pc-equivalent/[/link]

MichaelMaverick said:
People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.
No, I don't think so. The pressure to do so would come from publishers, and along with the punishment Microsoft has received, they've just received a wake-up slap to the face. There's strong hints that Sony is heading towards market dominance this generation that rides in part on their stance on this issue. They need to court Sony to get their games in front of people, not the other way around.

It's still possible, and even likely, that there will be a greater share of games distributed digitally in the future. Sony's indie-friendly stance goes well with this; most independent games are smaller than the AAA-behemoths, and more suited to quick downloads than 30GB Blu-Ray offerings. But Sony has established a market based on an environment that's either unfriendly to straight-up DRM through a lack of broadband Internet, or actively hostile towards it through choosing them over Microsoft. A gradual shift towards digital isn't out of the question, but that would likely be far more welcomed by consumers than the force-feeding that Microsoft is attempting in their self-appointed role as "leaders into the future."

In a couple of years, I might be marking your words. But are you equally prepared to eat them?
 

JSW

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Arcade Hero X said:
Wasn't the PS3 basically a more powerful console then the xbox360 but the 3rd party games had never shown that. This was because it would have taken them longer and cost more to make games to fully utilize the power of the PS3 so they just settled on a standard that looked great on both console but the PS3 could have looked better.
The PS3 had a more powerful CPU than the Xbox 360's (provided developers could navigate its convoluted architecture enough to fully take advantage of it) but its GPU was weaker and its segmented memory model presented certain barriers to development that didn't exist on the 360. It was neither weaker nor more powerful overall, but was significantly more difficult to develop for.

This time around, however, the PS4 is both more powerful and easier to develop for than the Xbox One (both use an x86 architecture, but the PS4's use of straight GDDR5 RAM makes it simpler than the Xbox One's DDR3/eSRAM combination,) making it the clear victor in terms of hardware capabilities.
 

thiosk

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The 100$ price difference favoring the PS4 was enough to lead me to predict a thorough rout of the xboners this christmas. Collecting all the good press, seriously all of it, should give them enough marketing momentum to win handsomely.

The dick moves and the price premium is what hammered them in the dawn of the last generation, and it took them years to catch back up.

Doesn't matter to me, though, becuz steem teh heh.
 

conanthegamer

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Jimothy Sterling said:
PS4 - Doing Nothing, Meaning Everything

Sony created a magic moment this past week at E3, declaring for the world that PS4 would not restrict used games or utilize DRM. Power to the people!

Watch Video
AMEN!!! Especially the last sentence. I walked away from Sony about their arrogance of the PS3. Don't think for a minute that I won't walk away from Xbox for their arrogance.
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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daxterx2005 said:
Anyone think Microsoft will backtrack with all this backlash?
Or is it way to late in the game to do that?
This is an interesting thought. Microsoft recently announced[footnote]Because even though we're more than two weeks post-announcement they're STILL having to tell us how the damn thing works, even on a most basic level.[/footnote] that even when the "servers shut down," referring to when Microsoft's servers which people's consoles check into shut down because another couple of console generations has gone by, you'll still be able to play your games. They announced this because they were answering questions from Reddit, and one huge concern was the X-bone having an expiration date. Like how SimCity will be unplayable when EA decides to shut down its servers, it seemed as though the X-bone was the same way. When Microsoft stops supporting it, you simply wouldn't be able to log in anymore. You're left with a bulky, overpriced blu-ray player and a library of games you can no longer play (because we know the next console isn't going to be backwards-compatible either).

And, you know, this is a legitimate concern. Having to keep your old console to keep playing old games is one kind of inconvenience, and almost understandable in some situations. But Microsoft just being able to pull the plug on your console because they've decided they're done supporting it? Unacceptable. But, since Microsoft says it would retain functionality even after dropping it, then obviously it's already built with the capacity to do so. This isn't something hardwired into the system, they can just give it a little software update and stop requiring the 24 hour check-ins anytime they want.

However, given this is such a big feature they've already spent the last two weeks legitimizing, I doubt they'd give up so easily. Just because they can doesn't mean they will, and I think unless the X-bone's sales hit WAY below the mark of what MS wants, we're going to be stuck with all of these shitty things for a while. And same thing with the used games situation. Unless their sales are very low and they're pushed up against a wall, they aren't going to budge an inch on any of these "features."

I've been rather pessimistic about the X-bone's sales taking any sort of a hit from this, but I'm slowly becoming more convinced it might just happen. They may not be apocalyptically low, but someone else in the thread pointed out how service members will not be able to play the X-bone because of the 24 hour check-ins and the incredibly low number of countries it can be used in. As far as I'm aware, consoles in the military are pretty big. It may not be a huge number, but it's certainly a substantial market that has been completely and utterly removed from Microsoft's pool of customers. Then add on the people who live in places without consistent Internet, or young people like college student whose Internet situation changes almost every single year as they move in and out of dorms and apartments and you have a lot of people who used to be securely in their grasp suddenly up in the air. I can't wait for the thing to come out, just to see exactly how this plays out.
 

el_kabong

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While I enjoyed the video, I don't believe that it's accurate to say that Sony did nothing. Anyone who's ever had an interaction with another human should know that listening is not a necessity when they're making mouth noises at you. Sony directly answered questions and wants/needs being given to them by gamers. The pure act of being a responsive corporation that seeks to answer the needs of its consumer base is not a passive thing.

Second, I think that people who say that Sony changed nothing are looking at the Sony of last year to this year. However, when you look at the launch of the PS3 and PS4 back-to-back, it becomes clear in almost every way how much they've changed their tune. The PS3 was not sold to gamers, but as an all-inclusive entertainment center (where else have I heard that?). As such, it was limping along for the first part of its life, sustained en mass only by being a cheap bluray player. It was only as they shifted towards the mass market by cutting prices, gathering exclusives, and offering EXCELLENT subscription programs that they saw the PS3 become an actual success. While they are simply riding that same wave with PS4, it's almost an ocean away from how they launched the PS3.

Lastly, while I absolutely love the direct shot that Sony took at Microsoft, focusing on only those shots as they existed in the conference entirely misses many of the things Sony had to do to be able to come out with the policy it did. I think it's easy to say that both Microsoft and Sony looked at their next console generation and wanted to ensure that they have the support of third-party publishers. Microsoft attempted to raise that support by offering mandatory DRM measures that can be employed as a console-wide standard, emphasizing security of the publishers' content on their system as a drawing point. Sony, on the other hand, emphasized ease of development by changing the architecture to x86, courting indy developers, and getting their dev kits in the hands of the various developers early (and engaging them often). Rather than give a benefit to publishing on their console through means of taking things away from consumers (anti-piracy at the cost of consumer rights), Sony's plan involved in making it cost less for developers to make games. Aiding in the reduction of development costs (as far as they can contribute, that is) allowed Sony to get the 3P support any console needs to be successful without taking away from the consumer. It is because of their hard work in courting 3P devs that they do not have to resort to cheap tricks to appease developers.

A good company will make operating look easy. It may look still on the surface, but the underlying work to make it appear that way shouldn't be ignored (particularly when doing a detailed analysis of the situation).
 

GonzoGamer

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klaynexas3 said:
hentropy said:
"Or just buy a gaming PC and have an awesome life."

That's basically what I was thinking the whole episode.
You know, some of the major problems people have with the Xbone are the same reasons why they can't get into PC gaming. Probably why it's such an elite club. Perhaps the Xbone can provide another group like the PC master race that'd probably be more annoying with less reasons to feel superior.
That's the way things seem to be going: the consoles get more and more crappy features of pc gaming and none of the benefits.

I too find it sad that Sony felt the need to say something and yet I couldn't help but appreciate them twisting the knife into MS for being such dicks. Still, I kind of felt like they were trying to distract us from the whole psPlus required for online. That was one of the main reasons I got a ps3 over the 360; no extra fees. Is it as big of a kick in the nuts as MS? No. Does them not screwing us over in any other way excuse them from charging for online? No.

I'll admit, I was one of those people who thought Sony was going to do all the same stuff or worse...and you know what, they may have if people didn't start freaking out at MS' played hand. But can you blame me? Sony is one of the publishers with mandatory online pass on all their 1st party games; thats on top of all the other reasons Jim gave.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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You know, over this technical conversation as to how horrible the drm policies for each console are or may be, about prices and specs, I like ONE particular thing about Sony over Microsoft.
We all know the internet is a cesspool of hatred and opinionated idiocy, and we know its hard for companies to get a hold of what is really going on and balancing the desires and expectations of the consumers and the requirements of investors.
But I feel that in this particular situation, the concern for Microsoft's policies was NOT something to ignore.

Today, there are many options when it comes to entertainment, but there is also a lot of (rather justified) fear from the consumer to the companies that seem to want to milk you dry. Microsoft hasn't only failed to address their playerbase's concern, but it has even managed to be UNCLEAR, RUDE, SNARKY, and SATYRIC when addressing the VERY UNDERSTANDABLE conflicts that THEIR OWN PLAYERS have.

On the other hand, I know Sony isn't a saint, they like their profits as much as the next massive multinational. But there is a CLEAR awareness of what their supporters are requesting. As Jim said, I've never seen a company look and point at the elephant in the room with such directness. It IS a catch phrase, but they actually DID listen. They showed me that they do think about what is important for US ( even if it just means benefit for them ). And that, I respect.
 

Mr. Omega

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I did love Sony directly going after Microsoft. It was a thing of beauty. And yet my WiiU does all those features everyone cheered for, AND it's backwards compatible. Still, thank you Sony for making Microsoft the odd man out.
 

Griffolion

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canadamus_prime said:
Yes, how sad it is that Sony just has to say that they'll do things that have been done for years and get lauded for it. Those things should go without saying.
Indeed, however some kudos need to be given to them for resisting the temptation to go the way of MS. Yes they protected the rights of consumers as they should be doing, but the temptation was there and they said "no" to it. I at least give my thanks for that.