Jimquisition: PS4 - Doing Nothing, Meaning Everything

[synobal]

Anyone who thinks good Journalism is parroting the talking points for both large corporations is wrong. I get that people can get upset when their favorite journalist has an opinion contrary to their own but journalism is more than just repeating the talking points for both corporations out of the fear of being called biased. Jim is doing his job and is doing a great job of it.

 

[Big_Isaac]

what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?

I don't think it holds true. Not for me at least. I buy nearly all my games from the bargain bin (I play PS3 predominantly). The only games this gen that I bought full price (personally, not as gifts) are Far Cry 3 and (preordered Collector's Edition) Aliens; Colonial marines. I cancelled the latter.

One of the reasons is that it's very common for games to be re-released a few years later with all the DLC for 1/3rd the price of the original game without DLC.

For example, I got GTA 4 with all 3 campaigns for $20 Canadian. It's a difficult decision to buy new when I know that I can get fantastic bargains like that in the not-too-distant future.

EDIT

Sorry, I misread.

It is a bit dismissive of the great games that get overlooked, but I think it was aimed at the generic FPS crowd. If that's the case, I agree. If he's stating it as absolute universally-applicable fact, he's wrong as indicated with my example above.

yes, Reggie directed that mainly at devs of annual games like CoD and Madden

basically "We here at Nintendo aren't worried about used games because people WANT to keep playing Mario Kart. people WANT to keep playing ... . we don't do annual game updates, so used games aren't an issue for us"
or something along those lines

 

[Nuttydwarf]

a simple song for the Xbone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySP3mdCPC4M

 

[klaynexas3]

"Or just buy a gaming PC and have an awesome life."

That's basically what I was thinking the whole episode.

You know, some of the major problems people have with the Xbone are the same reasons why they can't get into PC gaming. Probably why it's such an elite club. Perhaps the Xbone can provide another group like the PC master race that'd probably be more annoying with less reasons to feel superior.

 

[Callate]

Amen. Hallelujiah. Praise be to Sterling.

Now I can stop saying virtually the same thing over and over and just link to the Jimquisition. And get suspended for low-content posting... crap.

Will add the proviso (that I've also been repeating) that although the PS4 may have left some DRM decisions up to publishers, they haven't given those publishers a gun to point at us the way Microsoft has. A game with DRM that requires it to connect to the Internet leaves a significant portion of the PS4 user base out in the cold, whereas Microsoft has bent over backwards to be sure every loyal consumer came market-equipped with a killswitch.

I also note that in punishing retail gaming Microsoft is pointing towards a future where gaming is only for people who have credit cards... or are willing to punt in long access codes every time they want to buy a game digitally. (Next version of Kinnect going to come with a freaking bar code scanner?!)

wait... diablo 3 is coming to ps4 and it's an always online game right?

fucking son of a *****.

...Maybe not.

[link]http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/26/the-ps4-version-of-diablo-3-will-have-offline-co-op-no-word-on-pc-equivalent/[/link]

People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.

No, I don't think so. The pressure to do so would come from publishers, and along with the punishment Microsoft has received, they've just received a wake-up slap to the face. There's strong hints that Sony is heading towards market dominance this generation that rides in part on their stance on this issue. They need to court Sony to get their games in front of people, not the other way around.

It's still possible, and even likely, that there will be a greater share of games distributed digitally in the future. Sony's indie-friendly stance goes well with this; most independent games are smaller than the AAA-behemoths, and more suited to quick downloads than 30GB Blu-Ray offerings. But Sony has established a market based on an environment that's either unfriendly to straight-up DRM through a lack of broadband Internet, or actively hostile towards it through choosing them over Microsoft. A gradual shift towards digital isn't out of the question, but that would likely be far more welcomed by consumers than the force-feeding that Microsoft is attempting in their self-appointed role as "leaders into the future."

In a couple of years, I might be marking your words. But are you equally prepared to eat them?

 

[JSW]

Wasn't the PS3 basically a more powerful console then the xbox360 but the 3rd party games had never shown that. This was because it would have taken them longer and cost more to make games to fully utilize the power of the PS3 so they just settled on a standard that looked great on both console but the PS3 could have looked better.

The PS3 had a more powerful CPU than the Xbox 360's (provided developers could navigate its convoluted architecture enough to fully take advantage of it) but its GPU was weaker and its segmented memory model presented certain barriers to development that didn't exist on the 360. It was neither weaker nor more powerful overall, but was significantly more difficult to develop for.

This time around, however, the PS4 is both more powerful and easier to develop for than the Xbox One (both use an x86 architecture, but the PS4's use of straight GDDR5 RAM makes it simpler than the Xbox One's DDR3/eSRAM combination,) making it the clear victor in terms of hardware capabilities.

 

[thiosk]

The 100$ price difference favoring the PS4 was enough to lead me to predict a thorough rout of the xboners this christmas. Collecting all the good press, seriously all of it, should give them enough marketing momentum to win handsomely.

The dick moves and the price premium is what hammered them in the dawn of the last generation, and it took them years to catch back up.

Doesn't matter to me, though, becuz steem teh heh.

 

[conanthegamer]

PS4 - Doing Nothing, Meaning Everything

Sony created a magic moment this past week at E3, declaring for the world that PS4 would not restrict used games or utilize DRM. Power to the people!

Watch Video

AMEN!!! Especially the last sentence. I walked away from Sony about their arrogance of the PS3. Don't think for a minute that I won't walk away from Xbox for their arrogance.

 

[Lilani]

Anyone think Microsoft will backtrack with all this backlash?
Or is it way to late in the game to do that?

This is an interesting thought. Microsoft recently announced[footnote]Because even though we're more than two weeks post-announcement they're STILL having to tell us how the damn thing works, even on a most basic level.[/footnote] that even when the "servers shut down," referring to when Microsoft's servers which people's consoles check into shut down because another couple of console generations has gone by, you'll still be able to play your games. They announced this because they were answering questions from Reddit, and one huge concern was the X-bone having an expiration date. Like how SimCity will be unplayable when EA decides to shut down its servers, it seemed as though the X-bone was the same way. When Microsoft stops supporting it, you simply wouldn't be able to log in anymore. You're left with a bulky, overpriced blu-ray player and a library of games you can no longer play (because we know the next console isn't going to be backwards-compatible either).

And, you know, this is a legitimate concern. Having to keep your old console to keep playing old games is one kind of inconvenience, and almost understandable in some situations. But Microsoft just being able to pull the plug on your console because they've decided they're done supporting it? Unacceptable. But, since Microsoft says it would retain functionality even after dropping it, then obviously it's already built with the capacity to do so. This isn't something hardwired into the system, they can just give it a little software update and stop requiring the 24 hour check-ins anytime they want.

However, given this is such a big feature they've already spent the last two weeks legitimizing, I doubt they'd give up so easily. Just because they can doesn't mean they will, and I think unless the X-bone's sales hit WAY below the mark of what MS wants, we're going to be stuck with all of these shitty things for a while. And same thing with the used games situation. Unless their sales are very low and they're pushed up against a wall, they aren't going to budge an inch on any of these "features."

I've been rather pessimistic about the X-bone's sales taking any sort of a hit from this, but I'm slowly becoming more convinced it might just happen. They may not be apocalyptically low, but someone else in the thread pointed out how service members will not be able to play the X-bone because of the 24 hour check-ins and the incredibly low number of countries it can be used in. As far as I'm aware, consoles in the military are pretty big. It may not be a huge number, but it's certainly a substantial market that has been completely and utterly removed from Microsoft's pool of customers. Then add on the people who live in places without consistent Internet, or young people like college student whose Internet situation changes almost every single year as they move in and out of dorms and apartments and you have a lot of people who used to be securely in their grasp suddenly up in the air. I can't wait for the thing to come out, just to see exactly how this plays out.

 

[el_kabong]

While I enjoyed the video, I don't believe that it's accurate to say that Sony did nothing. Anyone who's ever had an interaction with another human should know that listening is not a necessity when they're making mouth noises at you. Sony directly answered questions and wants/needs being given to them by gamers. The pure act of being a responsive corporation that seeks to answer the needs of its consumer base is not a passive thing.

Second, I think that people who say that Sony changed nothing are looking at the Sony of last year to this year. However, when you look at the launch of the PS3 and PS4 back-to-back, it becomes clear in almost every way how much they've changed their tune. The PS3 was not sold to gamers, but as an all-inclusive entertainment center (where else have I heard that?). As such, it was limping along for the first part of its life, sustained en mass only by being a cheap bluray player. It was only as they shifted towards the mass market by cutting prices, gathering exclusives, and offering EXCELLENT subscription programs that they saw the PS3 become an actual success. While they are simply riding that same wave with PS4, it's almost an ocean away from how they launched the PS3.

Lastly, while I absolutely love the direct shot that Sony took at Microsoft, focusing on only those shots as they existed in the conference entirely misses many of the things Sony had to do to be able to come out with the policy it did. I think it's easy to say that both Microsoft and Sony looked at their next console generation and wanted to ensure that they have the support of third-party publishers. Microsoft attempted to raise that support by offering mandatory DRM measures that can be employed as a console-wide standard, emphasizing security of the publishers' content on their system as a drawing point. Sony, on the other hand, emphasized ease of development by changing the architecture to x86, courting indy developers, and getting their dev kits in the hands of the various developers early (and engaging them often). Rather than give a benefit to publishing on their console through means of taking things away from consumers (anti-piracy at the cost of consumer rights), Sony's plan involved in making it cost less for developers to make games. Aiding in the reduction of development costs (as far as they can contribute, that is) allowed Sony to get the 3P support any console needs to be successful without taking away from the consumer. It is because of their hard work in courting 3P devs that they do not have to resort to cheap tricks to appease developers.

A good company will make operating look easy. It may look still on the surface, but the underlying work to make it appear that way shouldn't be ignored (particularly when doing a detailed analysis of the situation).

 

[GonzoGamer]

"Or just buy a gaming PC and have an awesome life."

That's basically what I was thinking the whole episode.

You know, some of the major problems people have with the Xbone are the same reasons why they can't get into PC gaming. Probably why it's such an elite club. Perhaps the Xbone can provide another group like the PC master race that'd probably be more annoying with less reasons to feel superior.

That's the way things seem to be going: the consoles get more and more crappy features of pc gaming and none of the benefits.

I too find it sad that Sony felt the need to say something and yet I couldn't help but appreciate them twisting the knife into MS for being such dicks. Still, I kind of felt like they were trying to distract us from the whole psPlus required for online. That was one of the main reasons I got a ps3 over the 360; no extra fees. Is it as big of a kick in the nuts as MS? No. Does them not screwing us over in any other way excuse them from charging for online? No.

I'll admit, I was one of those people who thought Sony was going to do all the same stuff or worse...and you know what, they may have if people didn't start freaking out at MS' played hand. But can you blame me? Sony is one of the publishers with mandatory online pass on all their 1st party games; thats on top of all the other reasons Jim gave.

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

You know, over this technical conversation as to how horrible the drm policies for each console are or may be, about prices and specs, I like ONE particular thing about Sony over Microsoft.
We all know the internet is a cesspool of hatred and opinionated idiocy, and we know its hard for companies to get a hold of what is really going on and balancing the desires and expectations of the consumers and the requirements of investors.
But I feel that in this particular situation, the concern for Microsoft's policies was NOT something to ignore.

Today, there are many options when it comes to entertainment, but there is also a lot of (rather justified) fear from the consumer to the companies that seem to want to milk you dry. Microsoft hasn't only failed to address their playerbase's concern, but it has even managed to be UNCLEAR, RUDE, SNARKY, and SATYRIC when addressing the VERY UNDERSTANDABLE conflicts that THEIR OWN PLAYERS have.

On the other hand, I know Sony isn't a saint, they like their profits as much as the next massive multinational. But there is a CLEAR awareness of what their supporters are requesting. As Jim said, I've never seen a company look and point at the elephant in the room with such directness. It IS a catch phrase, but they actually DID listen. They showed me that they do think about what is important for US ( even if it just means benefit for them ). And that, I respect.

 

[Mr. Omega]

I did love Sony directly going after Microsoft. It was a thing of beauty. And yet my WiiU does all those features everyone cheered for, AND it's backwards compatible. Still, thank you Sony for making Microsoft the odd man out.

 

[Griffolion]

Yes, how sad it is that Sony just has to say that they'll do things that have been done for years and get lauded for it. Those things should go without saying.

Indeed, however some kudos need to be given to them for resisting the temptation to go the way of MS. Yes they protected the rights of consumers as they should be doing, but the temptation was there and they said "no" to it. I at least give my thanks for that.

 

[Jenny Jones]

Saw this coming when the PS4 was properly announced =D

Though I don't trust either M$ or $ony, I think $ony might be the better of the two evils but I'm still quite wary and would rather support Nintendo over either of them (though I will remain on PC most likely). Just remember $ony have an agenda too and in case you missed it there was a very clear disc games only message that appeared on the M$ burn video. Who's to say PSN+ (which is a must for all multiplayer) won't become the only or most common/easiest way to get games in the future and negate the whole used games issue?

I hope I'm wrong but there's just a feeling I get from the way $ony have been playing their hand that makes me feel there's more to it and they're going to be slipping something in that's almost as bad as the Xbone.

Sorry gtg the neighbours are trying to read my thoughts again.

 

[geizr]

Microsoft set fire to their own house, all Sony has to do is sit back and fan the flames. The Xbone has even pissed off members of the US military! http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030/New-Xbox-sin-against-all-service-members-

Reading that article, I am left to shake my head in pure bafflement. ONLY in the game industry is it considered a good idea for a business to just throw away an entire significant market segment of customers and have no one to fill the gap left behind. This is just how sickly insane and twisted the game industry has become that these sort of business decisions make sense to the executives. In absolutely no other industry is it considered a smart business move to throw away an entire market segment without at least having another one that will take its place. But, Microsoft has left a complete market vacuum. Are they going to make a separate "special" console for sell just to the military with the restrictions lifted? Holy hell, that would make even less sense from a business perspective because now you fragment your production lines, which can be a costly and error-prone proposition to maintain compatibility with the rest of the market.

I think it possible a few more Microsoft executives will be following the path of Mr. Adam "Deal with it" Orth when this is all over.

 

[DTWolfwood]

Could have mentioned the one downside to the whole thing, having to pay for multiplayer now.

Microsoft just straight up gave its customers the middle finger and ram its cock into their asses! Sony was kind enough to buy their customers dinner before just slipping in the tip

 

[tdylan]

Exceptional articulation of the Sony's reveal of support for used games.

The realization that this announcement--with all its praise--is really a celebration of the status quo is something I'm certain came to just about everyone's mind, and exploring why this inaction is deserving of such high regard is exactly the right angle to go from.

I prefer to look at it as "if it's not broken, don't do anything to attempt fixing it."

 

[Djaevlenselv]

This is actually the second time in fairly recent memory I've seen Jim be at the opposite end of the spectrum on an issue to John 'TotalBiscuit' Bain, the last time being in regards to the used game market itself. It's kind of jarring really to see the two game journalists I follow the closest be so diametrically opposed, since I as a simple consumer don't always know whose testimony and opinions to trust. Both of them, after all, claim to base their opinions on industry facts.

What I would seriously like to see would be an actual debate between Jim and TB on one of the issues they disagree on, or really just any game related issue. I think that would be very interesting. Hell, you could throw Yahtzee into the mix for a full-on Snarky-Brit-stravaganza.

So I guess what I basically want is some kind of return of Extra Consideration...

 

[Hellfireboy]

The thing is that you DID give them both equal treatment. I have no doubt that if Sony had done the same thing then this would have been another diatribe on the evils of the industry. But they didn't. And so it wasn't. Sony hung back and watched MS repeatedly slam their hand in a door and then said to themselves, "let's not do that." MS clearly designed the XBox One for publishers not consumers. The hope was probably that they would get enough exclusive content from said publishers that they could use that to get the consumers to overlook a bunch of things that they have vocally hated for years. In the end it will probably backfire. The one thing that publishers need more than anything else, more than anti-piracy measures, more than kickbacks from used games, is a platform in the house. If MS can't get the platform in your home it's no good to anyone. Sony on the other hand has just taken the gift from MS and will end up with more units sold which means that even if the publisher did go XB1 exclusive they're going to be chomping at the bit to get out of it and won't do it again since, no matter how secure, you can't sell a game for a platform that the consumer doesn't own.