Jimquisition: PS4 - Doing Nothing, Meaning Everything

[xPixelatedx]

what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?

I don't know what Jim thinks, but I freaking laughed my ass off. Nintendo does make a point, to, they got nothing to worry about. Even though the wii was the biggest selling console of last gen, if it was every bit as garbage as people say.... shouldn't the used game isle of GameStop be full of twice as many wii games as 360? Funny how the Nintendo section is the smallest at every GameStop I've been to. I don't know a single Nintendo centric gamer who likes to get rid of their stuff. In fact most of them have been around since the start (NES) so they know it's a better idea to hold on to what you like.

Say what you will about Nintendo and their games, but the people who love them really love them.

Spoiler

Obviously an exaggeration, given how much I've played skyrim myself. But hey, I do admit I played the original Zeldas more. I can't see myself ever picking Skyrim up again now that I've had my fill, but I know I will play Zelda 1 and 2 again down the line, and again years after that.

 

[Trishbot]

Sony didn't exactly "do nothing". Resisting temptation is doing something commendable. They were in a position to follow Microsoft's policies, cater to the whims of publishers over customers, and said "no". That's doing something commendable, even if it is keeping the status quo.

Though, I think the Wii U needs some love.

 

[Arawn]

Doing nothing and being applauded is an effect of Microsoft's current situation. If not for their poorly managed release of information,comments from executives and staff at MS, and the system they've set for the Xbox One People would have heckled Sony right off the stage. When the stumbling start the X-1 got, it set the stage for almost anyone to capitalize upon. From what Jim said Sony didn't decide what it wanted to do til the very last moment. Shocking to say the least. How easy could it have been for them to go the other way. How easy would it have been to jump on Microsoft's wagon and join in on the consumer's worst nightmare. But they didn't. I'm guessing they weighed the risk vs rewards, and saw that in doing nothing they had more to gain than doing anything. The angered and jilted lovers of video game were waiting to see what they had to say. They had everyone's attention. It really seems such a simple choice when you look at it. Ride the wave; give the people what they want.

Now Sony did say the right things, but they are doing some things people might still look upon with disdain. For one; they're linking online play to their Playstation Plus service. For the longest time Sony's lack of subscription which gave it some appeal. It was one of the factors for what I purchased the PS3 those many moons ago. I don't want to pay for my internet to work after I've paid for my internet to work. I didn't really care that it kept my scores and friends list for me. Paying to play seemed silly. Irony is when Sony released the Plus system I tried it and liked it. But I wasn't paying for multiplayer I was paying for game discounts, free games, beta testing. For that I could rationalize the $5 per month. I can hardly complain now since I've been paying already. So the online access isn't going to bother me in a slightest now.

The second thing people are mentioning is the fact they've put the ball into the publisher's court. From their statement they said they would not have DRM or check ins on their system. At the same time they wouldn't stop the publishers from doing so. This of course leaves it open for the game makers to do as they please. Might cause some backlash if they decide to add such measures to their games, but at least Sony can say it's not their fault. So again they are doing nothing. Not sure how to take this, but I feel most will keep it simple and allow people to play. With the popularity that Sony has achieved with it's statement and news of it's pre-order sales; a lot of games will be sold. The volume of used games will be low since so many people will be picking up games for the fledgling system. Nintendo made a good point; make better games rather than try to restrict the market. I love my games, but the scripted 5hr single player and 100+ hrs of multiplayer action get old quickly. It's another shooter or racing game and little difference from the last one. Publishers might try to lace the Sony pool with their counter measures, or snub the system for not choosing to back their possible gravy train. Locking out games from being resold similar to the RE example Jim gave.

Another point of interest having to do with games. Many of my friends (myself included) are quite excited about the press conferences that came out. Yet a short time afterwards we learn most of those games showed are shared between the systems. Yet during the show both companies tossed out words like "Exclusive" quite liberally. This is a good and bad thing. Truly exclusive games are a means to draw people to your system and generate interest. Games like Halo made the Xbox a success as did other games that followed. Still if Xbox One's launch titles are ones I can acquire on PS4 I'm even less motivated to purchase one. The reverse can be said for PS4. If I can manage the same experience with either system what's my motivation? Why should I pick up one over the other if they're the same thing in a different box. That can hurt Xbox One, the current underdog, in this battle for people's money. Titan Fall and Dead Rising 3 (Two games that wowed me) are both very excellent looking games. Of those two I'm told Dead Rising is the only true exclusive with Titan Fall gracing PC systems as well. WiiU has Bayonetta 2. Yes, I saw the news of that long ago and thought it a joke. But upon seeing that shiny gem that Nintendo has landed I felt a tug to purchase a WiiU. Yes, seriously. I saw Bayonetta 2 and said "Damn wish I had a WiiU." That's what exclusive games are supposed to do. A good exclusive will sell a console just as much as good review of said console. Sony has pick up some Indie games, some have already debuted on the PC. A remake of Abe's Odyssey is in the works. I recall seeing some "Free to play" games coming with the PS4 line-up. While not bad, I was expecting more innovative and new IP to dig my teeth into. Both sides gave us the "Coming Soon" on some select titles. Very nice to see, but how far/long til they're within reach?

Lastly we come to backwards compatibility. I mentioned paying for online as one of the reason I choose PS3, but another factor was that it could play the larger PS1 and PS2 library I already had. Mind you the price was quite high so I got the system and two PS3 games (bought separately) when it came out. So imagine my shock that Sony decided not to include that feature in the new incarnation of their game system. Microsoft did the same thing, but went so far as to say "If you backward compatible you're backwards" (Or something to that effect) Regardless, I feel that if Sony had included it the battle with Xbox One would be done before it started. I would have my PS3 to play PS1 and PS2 games and a PS4 to play PS3. Sounds silly, doesn't it? Still for those that have been put off by MS recent choices and had been loyal Xbox 360 owners would have seen otherwise. In purchasing a PS4 they would have had access to store of old and used games. Games they probably would never have played if the new Xbox hadn't changed the way they purchase,play, and sell their games. But fantasy aside I can see why they might have nixed it; focus on the new generation and all that. Fine I'll get over it eventually I can still play my PS3. Interesting enough they announced a system to do just that on PS4. Bravo. I'm curious what this en devour will cost as they're not going to let everyone play the older system game for free. If so where do I sign up? Some sent me this link not long ago. http://imgur.com/r/gaming/UdhHNVK . It would be a novel approach to say the least. Wishful thinking it's something like that. Sales of older games would see a boost even non owners of PS3 would dig up gems to utilize such a system.

There's quite abit of time before PS4 and X-1 make it to the shelves. Perhaps MS can shore up the holes they've managed to make in the boat while shooting themselves in the foot. Their PR has put their foot in their collective mouths, and left a bad taste in ours. And perhaps Sony will do something to cement the good press the MS fiasco has generated. Just being cheaper might not mean much if the publishers do go through with DRM and other measures. It could cause just as much (if not worst) a stir should that happen. Even if it's not their fault, they did nothing. ~In Jim we trust

 

[IronMit]

You imply a decision was not made until the last minute and your proof is that they waited till E3?

I think you underestimated Sony, they waited for E3 to talk about their trump card. They were probably 90% sure all along that their console was not going to be an 'always online' one - you would have to build the entire OS around something like that.

If they made an official statement between their 2 conferences then half the excitement would of gone by E3.


And not talking about their used game policy at E3 would of been suicide. You can cut their pre-orders buy half because everyone would assume the worst.

Also they maybe did not want MS to get spooked if Sony officially said they would not do it. This is very possible considering they played the same type of mind games with the price, (high risk strategy with GDDR5-when only 2gb was feasible at the start of development) and even by surprising them with the surprise first PS4 conference.

 

[Legion]

I have to ask, what is with the prawn/shrimp? I keep seeing it crop up, but unlike the bored face Yahtzee uses, I can't see the common connection for when it is used.

Does nobody remember the last time Sony promised a feature that people got really excited about? How are those Linux PS3's doing now anyway?

I agree that people shouldn't automatically adore Sony just because they did something good, when Microsoft did something bad, but if the results truly reflect what we are beginning to suspect (that the PS4 will slaughter the XBone in sales and become the more dominant console) then it'd be in their best interests not to screw people over.

If they "win" the console race this generation, then the best thing they can do is try and please consumers even more. If you have the better product, and still go out of your way to win consumers that's going to do wonders in the long term.

If Sony are smart, they will not get complacent about this good publicity, which is exactly what Microsoft did with the XBone. They were so confident that the Xbox 360 was more successful than the PS3 that they thought they could get by with their business practices purely on customer faith.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

It's a bit sad that everyone is cheering for Sony for saying things that should be implemented from the first place as it was in previous generations. Always online, no used games policies and what not.

Just because M$ dig themselves so deep that Sony took advantage of that and just waited the whole thing out. All they had to do is to say exactly the opposite and all of a sudden they are the messiah of console gamers.

People are so gullible it's amazing.

 

[TheMemoman]

Jim as always solid. Granite convictions. A militant of truth! A true Paladin amongst the shit whirlwind that Microsoft has bafflingly created for itself. And he's right: equal time doesn't equate to fairness and equal assessments doesn't translate to balanced. Jim's coverage has been relentless, objective and consequent. True journalistic integrity as I have not seen in years.

 

[lord.jeff]

what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?

True through and through, if you make a game you can play over and over again and never get old then you are less likely to give the game away, if a player is kept fed in high quality DLC then they will buy high quality DLC. More importantly, if everyone is keeping their copy of a game, there is no used games market because there would be no trade-ins occurring.

Snarky remark in your opinion but true none the less.

But it's not true simply going into a Gamestop or any used game market two weeks after any game is released, even the most well of received, and your more then likely to find a copy.

 

[Rabidkitten]

I think the indie developer support is really big. Its very bizarre that Sony, the company that stonewalled indies initially with the PS3 are now embracing them, and Microsoft, the company the brought us XBLIG, XBLA, and XNA, are now stonewalling them. Why the sudden turn of the tables? Does it know that the only reason I actually plugged in my brother in laws xbox 360 after it sitting in my garage for a year was to start playing some of these XBLIG, and XBLA indie games that were coming out? So when Dark Souls came out, I coughed up some money for a Xbox gold account to play it online for a while etc.

But Sony might be learning from their PS3 mistakes, (overpriced launch library, developer loops to jump through in terms of hardware and development, shitty system updating features etc.) However it should be noted that they are going to charge for Online Gameplay unless the publisher of said game coughs it up for the server support. Sadly the PS4 really gives us nothing new, and actually still takes a little away. Well except its open indie dev support which is great.

Tyler

On a side note this is something microsoft can remedy and quickly, they could do a press conference at pax prime, and just back the heck out. Remove the every 24 hour policy, announce some indie developer program, loosen up the used game policies, and throw in some goodies. Good will be had and the race will be on. To stick their guns though... yeesh

 

[Amir Kondori]

Jim used POWER OF GLOAT.

Its super effective!!

Fanboys fainted!

 

[Oskuro]

That video "tutorial" where the guys share a PS4 game... Pause it and read the fine print. The game sharing option is only for Disc Based games, and online play on the PS4 requires a subscription.


Smells like "shift into mostly digital distribution" to me.


Someone said this about E3 [http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=e3_wrapup_2013]

 

[Amir Kondori]

People are way more unjustified in applauding this. A year or two after launch, Sony's pulling a 180. Mark my words.

It is really sad when someone has such a weak argument, or even no argument, that all they can rely on is saying something like "well, they are doing the right thing now, but you wait, in the future they will totally be bad".

You know why that can not be true? Because the game is going to launch with offline capability. Meaning all disc games will have to work offline. Which means if they try and then force on DRM and online checks down the road they break compatability with a large part of their library. No console manufacturer is going to do that. This is a nonsense argument that is made because you don't have a real one.

 

[BBboy20]

While you can still share disc based games you cannot game share and sony will most definitely move in a more digital centered market in the near future.

Wasn't the share button also capable of allowing a friend to play your game? I think I saw that at the Feb. conference.

 

[timboo_drow]

Let's not forget about the sheer variety PS4 showed as well. I keep hearing that people were more impressed with XB1's lineup but let's have a closer look shall we.

1.) A stealth game (sequel)
2.) A swordy slashy quicktime event game (God of War)
3.) A zombie game (if you put all the digital zombies created together you would have a literal apocalypse)
4.) A car enthusiast's masturbatory dream
5.) Halo
6.) Call of Duty (errr I mean BattleField)
7.) Call of Duty with Mechs
8.) A fighting game (complete with douchey immature trash talk)

There were a couple of standouts like Project Spark, but a more tired collection of safe samey titles could not possibly be found. It's like a launch lineup created by focus group.

Not to let Sony off the hook, there were some safe looking entries there as well, but rolling out those indie developers the way they did, hinting at a near limitless amount of variety and creative energy, I was pretty stoked. I've been getting so bored with game offerings like the one MS proposes, I was glad to see that somebody seems to be listening to my gamer fatigue.

 

[Reyold]

Yes, how sad it is that Sony just has to say that they'll do things that have been done for years and get lauded for it. Those things should go without saying.

No kidding. You ever wonder when (or if) things will get better? Like another golden age of gaming or something like that?

 

[BBboy20]

Anyone think Microsoft will backtrack with all this backlash?
Or is it way to late in the game to do that?

This is an interesting thought. Microsoft recently announced[footnote]Because even though we're more than two weeks post-announcement they're STILL having to tell us how the damn thing works, even on a most basic level.[/footnote] that even when the "servers shut down," referring to when Microsoft's servers which people's consoles check into shut down because another couple of console generations has gone by, you'll still be able to play your games.

So, basically, the internet check is not needed and you still have to hope that Micro$oft will patch away that restriction 5+ years down the line...great.

 

[Lord_Gremlin]

Sony didn't exactly "do nothing". Resisting temptation is doing something commendable. They were in a position to follow Microsoft's policies, cater to the whims of publishers over customers, and said "no". That's doing something commendable, even if it is keeping the status quo.

Though, I think the Wii U needs some love.

Honestly? I need 1 really bloody, gory offensive game on it which is also good gameplay-wise before I buy it. So, next year, when Bayonetta 2 is out.

I really hope xbone fails hard. And I bet it will. There will be initial sales 2-3 million units and after that I predict it staying 3 million units while PS4 gets to 10, 20, 40 million...
It is PS2 era coming back.

 

[theultimateend]

what do you think about Nintendo's more snarky remark "if you're worried about used games sales, make better games"?

Seeing as I've never traded in a Nintendo game I'm willing to agree with them.

 

[Doom972]

I just noticed something on the E3 footage in this video. Are the PS4 games going to run directly from the disc? If so, I guess people should expect some serious loading times.

 

[theultimateend]

I just noticed something on the E3 footage in this video. Are the PS4 games going to run directly from the disc? If so, I guess people should expect some serious loading times.

You can either run them from the disc or do an install for the game and the disc will be required to start it up.

If its the same as the PS3, at least.

Yes, how sad it is that Sony just has to say that they'll do things that have been done for years and get lauded for it. Those things should go without saying.

Indeed, however some kudos need to be given to them for resisting the temptation to go the way of MS. Yes they protected the rights of consumers as they should be doing, but the temptation was there and they said "no" to it. I at least give my thanks for that.

I think Gandhi said something like "Doing nothing >is< doing something." Keeping with the status quo is a noble gesture if the alternative trend is destroying it or lowering the positive aspects of it.

My goodness Jim your head is so far up your own ass it is incredible, you don't even check all of your facts. Sony never said there would be no DR in fact they made it clear that there would be DRM, but that it would be left up to the publishers. Now you have to ask your self if you believe that EA and Activision are just going to let there be no DRM on their games. The Nextbox decided it was going to innovate, more than any other system. It made some sacrifices to push the industry to a more Steam-esque console experience. You are going to be able to share games like never before, and trade digital copies of things, something You can't do on PS4. The entire XBL community is going to be completely organic and allow for it to be constantly updated, constantly evolving, allowing you to jump in, play at anytime, and anywhere as if it was your own home. Jim doesn't talk about that, he would HATE to talk about that. Jim only wants to perpetuate this ridiculous circlejerk, that Microsoft hates us and is constantly out to bleed us ;ike sheep. Personally I think they should just fire their PR department.

What sony said about the PS4 is that it is exactly the same as the PS3 and the Xbox 360.

Publishers already had a choice if they wanted to add DRM or not. The same is true with the PC.

The irony of your opening sentence is palpable.

Steam is only innovative because its also considerably cheaper for patient people than alternatives.

Steam without any price reduction isn't innovative. Sega did it back on the Genesis.