Jimquisition: Shaming PC Ports Because Why Not?

[MonkeyPunch]

Rah! Been ranting about this for years now. We'll I've stopped recently because I lost the energy but this has bugged me for years.
On top of that there are just generally shitty PC ports from console where the dev just doesn't bother to tailor the game towards it's platform (PC) and again charges you full price for the game.
It's disgusting tbh.

That was in response to Jim's last bit about charging 60 dollars whether you're incompetent or neglectful.

I'm pretty sure he was just generalising. You know instead of having to say "as for Darksouls, which is ?50 on steam, $40 if you're in the States, $36 from Greenman Gaming or if you're in Brazil: 160 BRL..." etc. for example.
And as others have said, it doesn't really matter what the price of a game is.

 

[gigastar]

Well why shouldnt an inexperienced crew try to port thier works to PC?

How can they learn to do a good job of it if they do not make the mistakes?

I don't want to pay money to be someone's guinea pig. That's what beta testing and QA is for.

Agreed, but if nobody buys into the first crash landing then why should the devs consider coming back for a second go?

 

[Mastemat]

"Japanese devs don't know how to PC port"....
um... what?
Racist.

If anyone doesn't know how to PC port... it's Bethesda.
For anyone who isn't a tentacle monster, a Hindu god/dess, or an elitist hipster... the base keyboard and mouse for Bethesda games are unplayable with these human hands and fingers.

At least they include controller support on their PC titles for all the humans who play.

 

[Erttheking]

It feels a little late to be jumping on Dark Souls for this, I mean that was awhile ago. Also I do feel sympathy for them because they're inexperience, they admitted that they fucked up, and they're going designing Dark Souls 2 FOR PC and then porting it to consoles to avoid this happening again. Yeah they messed up big time, but I feel like all of the people who do this they're one of the few that could deserve to have some slack cut.

 

[redknightalex]

The biggest problem I had with the video is how Jim rather degraded those who made those mods/tweaks to get a PC port to work. Don't remember the exact words but I believe he was calling them plain and your average guy sort of thing. That bothers me to an extent, namely because not only do these average "guys" love to mod and change a game (for the most part) but also because there have been at least 3 success stories of modders being so popular that the land a job at Bethesda or Bungie. I wouldn't call them average at all; I'd call them better. They know what they're doing and even if the PC community needs to "fix" certain parts of a game, they are, for the most part, incredibly helpful. In a way, I almost prefer Elder Scrolls/Fallout games to suck because modders will be so much better at it and even teach you how to do it yourself.

If there's a PC port, I hope it's good and I'm happy we at least got one (look at GTA V and the lack of one). Frankly I think the greater crime are the companies that make a PC-only game and make it into an absolute shit-fest. Rome 2 TW is the perfect example.

(There's also a possibility that I've been in this PC-port ecosystem for so long that I don't think much about ports and their problems. I'm conditioned to think that they're ok or will be patched at some later date to work. That, by itself, is a problem. Do remember being pissed off about RAGE when it first came out, even if it wasn't a PC port. Oh well)

 

[Edl01]

Besides the obvious GFWL and the fact that I need a controller to play it I have never really had a problem with the Dark Souls unpatched port. I mean I guess it isn't the best looking game, but I honestly can live with that due to the 3 second loading screens. It's not like the port has any game crippling bugs or anything.
Am I being a fanboy? I think I'm being a fanboy.

 

[Weaver]

I assume next week Jim is going to do a episode on the whole Lets play debacle happening on steam?

Wait, what? I haven't heard of this! Can you post me to the steam link about it?
Not sure what it' about.

 

[Edl01]

Besides the obvious GFWL and the fact that I need a controller to play it I have never really had a problem with the Dark Souls unpatched port. I mean I guess it isn't the best looking game, but I honestly can live with that due to the 3 second loading screens. It's not like the port has any game crippling bugs or anything.
Am I being a fanboy? I think I'm being a fanboy.

 

[Something Amyss]

If I've learned anything from the YouTube debates over LPs, if people got money for their fixes there would be outrage that they were making money off someone else's product.

But wasn't the PC version of Dark Souls priced less than the console versions?

Weren't a lot of the "problems" with the game also that it was like the PS3 version? Isn't Jim complaining that he's getting something less than the console versions when one of his big examples was like the PS3 version?

Almost all PC games cost less but not by much, certainly not enough to excuse shoddy work. If you buy a washing machine where the door isn't fitted to the frame properly you wouldn't buy it for a £10 discount.

IIRC it retailed at 30 bucks, which isn't the typical pricing difference between versions.

Eeeeeh, Dark Souls has a valid excuse of being the exception, FromSoft have never done a PC port and they never would've done it if it didn't have demand. But yes, via dsfix everything is fine and dandy and noone complains.

Demand? People were begging and screaming for the game. And From was bloody up front about this, weren't they? Meanwhile the PC community pitched a fit every step of the way. DS set up a pretty good argument for ignoring the fans.

Ahem, while we expect some suckage, by no means are we accepting of lazy developers. Everytime someone has to step in and fix so easy-to-correct problem for free, we lose a few more people to the temptations of piracy. We are approaching the point were we have zero respect for AAA game designers and it shows.

Honestly, when people step in and do the devs' job, they're functioning as an enabler. CD Projekt isn't going to support Saints Row 2 anymore? That's okay, guys we paid for a broken product! You screwed things up so bad that people will still be offering new fixes in 2013, but MODDING COMMUNITY!

Deadly Premonition? Here, let me fix that for you.

Do I need to get in to Bethesda and Obsidian? Or Rockstar? Hell, PC gamers are having a fit over the lack of GTA V on PC, even as they're complaining that Rockstar won't do it right! And yet, I bet we'll see a lot of those same people buying on Day 1 when it does come to PC (because I have no doubt that it will).

Which leaves the question of why would they even feel shame for not releasing a solid product? Why would they even care a little bit?

Answer: They wouldn't.

When you reward bad behaviour, you get more bad behaviour. and while you might claim people are turning to piracy because of this, the Steam base of purchasers is supposedly growing.

 

[MatParker116]

Wasn't Deadly Premonition generally a crock of shit (mechanically at least)? As for New Vegas a lot of it's problems (which weren't limited to PC) can probably be traced back to it's ancient game engine (why Bethesda doesn't use id's and by extension it's own proprietary stuff is beyond me).

 

[TheArchbishopJubilee]

Jim:

I love your videos, but I really wish I could watch them at work on my lunch break. I'm not even talking about purple dildos. It's just that every sentence has a curse-word this week. Does it have to be every sentence? I kept turning the volume down and finally had to just stop the video.
Sorry to complain.

 

[Epic_Bubble]

I assume next week Jim is going to do a episode on the whole Lets play debacle happening on steam?

Wait, what? I haven't heard of this! Can you post me to the steam link about it?
Not sure what it' about.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.836177-Major-Changes-In-Youtube-Involving-Lets-Players

Basically lets players wont be able to make money off the content they produce.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Jim decides to just rant unhelpfully about terrible PC ports, and the humiliating need for them to be fixed by unpaid customers.

Hang about a minute Jim.

Respect Bethesda?? Why on Earth should we do that? A company with terrible quality control that just jams "more" into its games because it can, regardless of how good or how buggy it is? A company that treats its employees like shit?

What is it that I'm supposed to respect about that company? Any company that releases games at retail with alpha-level bugs does not deserve respect.

 

[Weaver]

I assume next week Jim is going to do a episode on the whole Lets play debacle happening on steam?

Wait, what? I haven't heard of this! Can you post me to the steam link about it?
Not sure what it' about.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.836177-Major-Changes-In-Youtube-Involving-Lets-Players

Basically lets players wont be able to make money off the content they produce.

That's on youtube, not steam lol .
I heard about that one! I think maybe you typed steam when you meant youtube

 

[BlankScreen]

To be at least fair to the publishers, these games can be amazingly complex on the technical side with millions of lines of code, thousands of objects to juggle, and some of those modders out there really ARE that damn good. Just like life itself, the best fixes are often the simplest and most overlooked.

"If I am paying the same price for a console game for a PC game, I want the same quality."

I will disagree with you very quickly on that. Console quality generally seems to be worse than PC games and I don't want to pay $50 dollars, much less $60 dollars, for far less than what I should be getting anyways. We've also seen day one patches on consoles as well, so at this point, everyone is to blame. And I am still one of those older guys who will not pay more than $50 for a game on principle. There are only a few exceptions that have broken my rule because the game has proven itself after launch to actually be worth it and is clearly trying to be great. However, just because $60 may have become the norm for the consoles doesn't mean it should effect everything else.

Vote with your Dollar: if you don't like a publisher's methods, don't buy their product. This applies to ANY company, video games or otherwise.

 

[SirCannonFodder]

But wasn't the PC version of Dark Souls priced less than the console versions?

It also came with extra content, a hardcover artbook, soundtrack CD, 5 postcards, and a big-ass poster, none of which were included in the console versions of Prepare to Die (they did originally come with the Collector's Edition, though). Considering they didn't even really want to do one in the first place, I'd say it was pretty good.

 

[Hitchmeister]

"Don't port games to PC" ~ Jim Sterling

Okay I'll stop stirring, more seriously, even if you don't know how to port to PC, you should be able to pay another company to do that for you. The fan fixes prove that

Contracting another company to finish the port could be very expensive. How about finding the fan modders and tossing them a few thousand dollars for what they would do for free so you can ship the fix at release and look competent?

 

[infinity_turtles]

I mostly agree with this, but FromSoft was up front about not knowing what they were doing, and weren't going to port it because of that. But then a lot of fans said they didn't care if it was a shit port, they just wanted it on pc, so they ported it. And in the end, aside from practically needing a gamepad, it wasn't too bad a port. It just didn't have all the stuff pc gamers expect.

It wasn't a shitty cashgrab, it was acquiescing to fan demands.

 

[Ulquiorra4sama]

Eeeeeh, Dark Souls has a valid excuse of being the exception, FromSoft have never done a PC port and they never would've done it if it didn't have demand. But yes, via dsfix everything is fine and dandy and noone complains.

Demand? People were begging and screaming for the game. And From was bloody up front about this, weren't they? Meanwhile the PC community pitched a fit every step of the way. DS set up a pretty good argument for ignoring the fans.

Up front, yeah. When people started screaming for a port From just came out and were like "But, what, we don't even... Fuck, we don't even know how to do that. How do you..? What is a PC? What even is a PC?" And then people kept on crying and From just caved and put one out there then people started crying again because the port was shit. Should've seen it coming if you ask me.

 

[BrotherRool]

"Don't port games to PC" ~ Jim Sterling

Okay I'll stop stirring, more seriously, even if you don't know how to port to PC, you should be able to pay another company to do that for you. The fan fixes prove that

Contracting another company to finish the port could be very expensive. How about finding the fan modders and tossing them a few thousand dollars for what they would do for free so you can ship the fix at release and look competent?

Presumably it has to be a fairly official set-up because you're going to be shipping them a bunch of NDA content that you don't want other people to see and also if you want to do it efficiently, maybe even some in-house software.

I actually figure it might be cheaper to hire another company to port your game. If you don't know how to make PCs ports then all you're programmers have to spend a lot of time teaching themselves or making mistakes, whereas another company might fit in more easily (on the other hand, you're going to understand you're own game engine better)

But it'd definitely be cool if people started hiring some of the fan-patchers, they must have serious talent