Jimquisition: Shaming PC Ports Because Why Not?

[Itchi_da_killa]

Look, I acknowledge that Bethesda can make some pretty good games...

... But at the same time, most of their games are released in a VERY unfinished, buggy, even broken state before the mod communities can fix the issues themselves.

I just have a weird feeling seeing an otherwise good game like Skyrim win several Game of the Year awards, when at that very moment entire versions of it were completely unplayable (especially on PS3).

I mean, if we literally reward them with the highest honors we can give a game, while their games are in a broken state, and they expect the fans and communities to fix their mess for them, what incentive do they have to actually ever release a polished, working game to market?

I agree, why reward them for broken games? I have always applauded Bethesda's ambition for their games, and they put tons of love into them, but if it was not for streaming patches and the mod community... I would not have the patience to finish them. From story concepts and content alone, Bethesda is one of the best for sure, but their technical issues are pretty epic as well. My number one selfish wish that I beg to be answered from the company is; better combat please! Like a faster, less janky Dark Souls type of combat.

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

But wasn't the PC version of Dark Souls priced less than the console versions?

That doesn't matter.. it was released as a complete product.

TBH I don't know how From Software didn't contact the modder and hire that man.. or at least drop him a few thousands bux for his efforts ( and fire their current programmers ) . Seems quite odd that companies that can program for consoles which are well known for being more complex systems, manage to screw up pc versions given that it should be much quicker to manage. Maybe they simply cant handle the variety of hardware options... a general problem of the PC master race dream.

 

[Dr.Awkward]

There are three things that are noteworthy for causing bad ports, Jim: Lacking or no documentation for programmers to work with, unfamiliarity with the engine they are using, or outright expecting the engine to do something that it just cannot. Believe it or not, it's not as much as lazy programming, but instead programmers that are either too reserved and personal with their code, or programmers trying out-nerd each other by making everything more complicated - This is why certain network systems require certifications if you want to work with them.

We need a good Thoreauing of the industry. Not just gaming mind you, but tech in general.

 

[Epic_Bubble]

I assume next week Jim is going to do a episode on the whole Lets play debacle happening on steam?

There really should be a list with the step by step guide to getting the best game possible vs the price.

1st: Don't Pre-order, the "bonuses are crap most of the time.
2nd: Don't buy at the release
3rd: Look at reviews and hopefully lets play videos before deciding.
4th: See what Mod support the game has
5th: Wait a year for the ultimate/game of year/ humble bundle/ collection of all the dlc at 50% of the cost
6th: If the game is from a indie developer one can be a bit less strict.

 

[synobal]

I would just like to see a shitty console port one day, the idea of a console gamer getting to a spot in teh game and a box pops up on the screen that says "press space to dodge the dragon attacks" or something like that. It would be pretty amusing for me.

 

[MonkeyPunch]

Rah! Been ranting about this for years now. We'll I've stopped recently because I lost the energy but this has bugged me for years.
On top of that there are just generally shitty PC ports from console where the dev just doesn't bother to tailor the game towards it's platform (PC) and again charges you full price for the game.
It's disgusting tbh.

That was in response to Jim's last bit about charging 60 dollars whether you're incompetent or neglectful.

I'm pretty sure he was just generalising. You know instead of having to say "as for Darksouls, which is ?50 on steam, $40 if you're in the States, $36 from Greenman Gaming or if you're in Brazil: 160 BRL..." etc. for example.
And as others have said, it doesn't really matter what the price of a game is.

 

[gigastar]

Well why shouldnt an inexperienced crew try to port thier works to PC?

How can they learn to do a good job of it if they do not make the mistakes?

I don't want to pay money to be someone's guinea pig. That's what beta testing and QA is for.

Agreed, but if nobody buys into the first crash landing then why should the devs consider coming back for a second go?

 

[Mastemat]

"Japanese devs don't know how to PC port"....
um... what?
Racist.

If anyone doesn't know how to PC port... it's Bethesda.
For anyone who isn't a tentacle monster, a Hindu god/dess, or an elitist hipster... the base keyboard and mouse for Bethesda games are unplayable with these human hands and fingers.

At least they include controller support on their PC titles for all the humans who play.

 

[Erttheking]

It feels a little late to be jumping on Dark Souls for this, I mean that was awhile ago. Also I do feel sympathy for them because they're inexperience, they admitted that they fucked up, and they're going designing Dark Souls 2 FOR PC and then porting it to consoles to avoid this happening again. Yeah they messed up big time, but I feel like all of the people who do this they're one of the few that could deserve to have some slack cut.

 

[redknightalex]

The biggest problem I had with the video is how Jim rather degraded those who made those mods/tweaks to get a PC port to work. Don't remember the exact words but I believe he was calling them plain and your average guy sort of thing. That bothers me to an extent, namely because not only do these average "guys" love to mod and change a game (for the most part) but also because there have been at least 3 success stories of modders being so popular that the land a job at Bethesda or Bungie. I wouldn't call them average at all; I'd call them better. They know what they're doing and even if the PC community needs to "fix" certain parts of a game, they are, for the most part, incredibly helpful. In a way, I almost prefer Elder Scrolls/Fallout games to suck because modders will be so much better at it and even teach you how to do it yourself.

If there's a PC port, I hope it's good and I'm happy we at least got one (look at GTA V and the lack of one). Frankly I think the greater crime are the companies that make a PC-only game and make it into an absolute shit-fest. Rome 2 TW is the perfect example.

(There's also a possibility that I've been in this PC-port ecosystem for so long that I don't think much about ports and their problems. I'm conditioned to think that they're ok or will be patched at some later date to work. That, by itself, is a problem. Do remember being pissed off about RAGE when it first came out, even if it wasn't a PC port. Oh well)

 

[Edl01]

Besides the obvious GFWL and the fact that I need a controller to play it I have never really had a problem with the Dark Souls unpatched port. I mean I guess it isn't the best looking game, but I honestly can live with that due to the 3 second loading screens. It's not like the port has any game crippling bugs or anything.
Am I being a fanboy? I think I'm being a fanboy.

 

[Weaver]

I assume next week Jim is going to do a episode on the whole Lets play debacle happening on steam?

Wait, what? I haven't heard of this! Can you post me to the steam link about it?
Not sure what it' about.

 

[Edl01]

Besides the obvious GFWL and the fact that I need a controller to play it I have never really had a problem with the Dark Souls unpatched port. I mean I guess it isn't the best looking game, but I honestly can live with that due to the 3 second loading screens. It's not like the port has any game crippling bugs or anything.
Am I being a fanboy? I think I'm being a fanboy.

 

[Something Amyss]

If I've learned anything from the YouTube debates over LPs, if people got money for their fixes there would be outrage that they were making money off someone else's product.

But wasn't the PC version of Dark Souls priced less than the console versions?

Weren't a lot of the "problems" with the game also that it was like the PS3 version? Isn't Jim complaining that he's getting something less than the console versions when one of his big examples was like the PS3 version?

Almost all PC games cost less but not by much, certainly not enough to excuse shoddy work. If you buy a washing machine where the door isn't fitted to the frame properly you wouldn't buy it for a £10 discount.

IIRC it retailed at 30 bucks, which isn't the typical pricing difference between versions.

Eeeeeh, Dark Souls has a valid excuse of being the exception, FromSoft have never done a PC port and they never would've done it if it didn't have demand. But yes, via dsfix everything is fine and dandy and noone complains.

Demand? People were begging and screaming for the game. And From was bloody up front about this, weren't they? Meanwhile the PC community pitched a fit every step of the way. DS set up a pretty good argument for ignoring the fans.

Ahem, while we expect some suckage, by no means are we accepting of lazy developers. Everytime someone has to step in and fix so easy-to-correct problem for free, we lose a few more people to the temptations of piracy. We are approaching the point were we have zero respect for AAA game designers and it shows.

Honestly, when people step in and do the devs' job, they're functioning as an enabler. CD Projekt isn't going to support Saints Row 2 anymore? That's okay, guys we paid for a broken product! You screwed things up so bad that people will still be offering new fixes in 2013, but MODDING COMMUNITY!

Deadly Premonition? Here, let me fix that for you.

Do I need to get in to Bethesda and Obsidian? Or Rockstar? Hell, PC gamers are having a fit over the lack of GTA V on PC, even as they're complaining that Rockstar won't do it right! And yet, I bet we'll see a lot of those same people buying on Day 1 when it does come to PC (because I have no doubt that it will).

Which leaves the question of why would they even feel shame for not releasing a solid product? Why would they even care a little bit?

Answer: They wouldn't.

When you reward bad behaviour, you get more bad behaviour. and while you might claim people are turning to piracy because of this, the Steam base of purchasers is supposedly growing.

 

[MatParker116]

Wasn't Deadly Premonition generally a crock of shit (mechanically at least)? As for New Vegas a lot of it's problems (which weren't limited to PC) can probably be traced back to it's ancient game engine (why Bethesda doesn't use id's and by extension it's own proprietary stuff is beyond me).

 

[TheArchbishopJubilee]

Jim:

I love your videos, but I really wish I could watch them at work on my lunch break. I'm not even talking about purple dildos. It's just that every sentence has a curse-word this week. Does it have to be every sentence? I kept turning the volume down and finally had to just stop the video.
Sorry to complain.

 

[Epic_Bubble]

I assume next week Jim is going to do a episode on the whole Lets play debacle happening on steam?

Wait, what? I haven't heard of this! Can you post me to the steam link about it?
Not sure what it' about.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.836177-Major-Changes-In-Youtube-Involving-Lets-Players

Basically lets players wont be able to make money off the content they produce.