Jimquisition: Steam Needs Quality Control

Adept Mechanicus

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Oct 14, 2012
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I think something is deeply wrong at Valve. Quality assurance is the major thing Valve is famous for. Valve wouldn't release any game they develop unless they were finished completely. Granted, the other publishers on Steam doesn't share the same psychotically perfectionist work ethic, but the fact that Valve has allowed this much unfinished garbage to go on Steam means nobody who works there is raising their hand and questioning whether this approach is a good idea. Given their decentralized approach to organization and their almost fetishistic approach to QA testing, this should not be happening.

Valve is one of the most secretive publishers out there, so we have no way of knowing what is actually going on.
 

Oskuro

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Nov 18, 2009
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This saddens me as a hobbyist developer with delusions of someday actually releasing something... It brings to mind the phrase "this is why we can't have nice things".

I'm referring to how the openess of Greelinght has been abused to death by false promises and shady monetization schemes. It is one thing for Valve to have poor quality control (which they have, not excusing them), but seeing the well being poisoned by the very people that drink from it is disheartening at best.


From the looks of this, as well as the oversaturation in the various mobile app stores, It does feel like the digital market is going for its first genuine crash, even before it had a chance to solidify its position.

I just can't understand it. I understand why an individual favours the short term over the long term, its a matter of instinct and psychology... But, big corporations? Are really individuals in such an unchecked position of power as to impose selfish short-term strategies? In companies where such massive amounts of money are at stake? You'd think such large organizations would have more checks and balances to make sure no brain-fart from the higher ups can destroy their market and thus their future!
 

McKitten

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I usually agree with Jim, but on this i've got to say fuck no. Steam is shaping up to become a near-monopoly like Amazon, and the absolutely last thing we as customers need is for them to grant third parties permissions to sell to us. That's a position of power that is absolutely going to be abused. (Remember when people actually believed google about their "don't be evil" shtick? Yeah, funny that)
What steam could use on the other hand is a better implementation of review scores so that it makes it just as easy to find out about a product as it is to spend money on the product. For example, they could have links to reviews on news sites like metacritic does. Or heck, just link to metacritic. And put that right on top of the page.
 

parenthephobia

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LordLundar said:
So I ask again: where's the demand for other stores to require quality control at the level you're demanding of Steam?
Why is it necessary for anyone to make that demand?

Does not failing to call out particular alternative video games vendors make any criticism of Steam invalid?

Is it "not true" that Steam has a quality control problem because Jim didn't accuse Gamestop of the same thing?

Suppose Jim didn't care whether Gamestop has good quality control. Does that mean he isn't allowed to want Steam to have quality control?

Should Steam not aspire to be better than Gamestop? Should its users not want it to be?
 

Foolery

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Jun 5, 2013
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Sorry man, Valve can't hear you over their mountain of cash. Honestly, I can't recommend much to do about this other than voting with your wallet. Store pages now have review sections on them, so that's mildly helpful at least.
 

Fappy

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LordLundar said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
LordLundar said:
Question: at what point are you going to make the same demands of brick and mortar stores and other online stores like Gamefly?

Because everything you are accusing Steam of happens in every store, physical or digital. To say that Steam needs to filter when no one else does is disingenuous at best.
Point to the bit in the video where I said "and no one else does," please.
All I heard was "Steam needs to, Steam needs to". I did not hear the same demands toward Gamestop (both physical store and digital), Best Buy, Gamefly, etc. In fact, the only mention of another store was GoG who does filter (and even then they have made mistakes) and that's mainly because because their primary market is classic games modified by them so they HAVE to issue that promise.

So I ask again: where's the demand for other stores to require quality control at the level you're demanding of Steam?
Considering this video WAS about Steam specifically, I don't see what the issue is. Mentioning whether or not other business' are doing it better or worse is irrelevant. His argument is that Steam is doing something wrong and that they should fix it.
 

BrownGaijin

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So now the big question is, when I Valve going to invite Jim over to their offices and have a more in depth chat. Maybe invite William Dafoe, or Ridley Scott to entice the deal.
 

OWENR22

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Dragonbums said:
OWENR22 said:
Bloody hell, how much stuff has he got on that podium now?
Not enough. There is one member missing on that desk, and that object is the Belladonna ***** Fist.
Yes! Jim, bring back the ***** Fist, and while you're at it lets get Jonathan Holmes' Penis on the show!
 

lukesparow

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You have a fairly good point Jim. A lot of the systems present within Steam as of right now are broken and should be fixed.
However, I don't think Steam should necesarrily have a big emphasis on quality control. It's a free market out there. If the game's shit you simply shouldn't buy it.

It's up to the consumer to see what's good and what isn't and then make choices accordingly. That's my view on this matter anyway.
 

lancar

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I've haven't really thought about it much, but now that you mention it, Jim, I have been rather reluctant to check out new titles on Steam for quite a while now.

When I look at the top sellers list, and see Rust and the War Z up there, I just can't feel excited at all. I love the whole zombie survival theme, and with such expansive crafting systems it should be right up my alley.

Yet I don't buy them, I don't trust the video footage, and I don't trust any developers anymore. I've bought too many stinkers in the last few years, and with my disposable income as low as it is now, I'm unsure I even want to invest in titles I know are good, much less any that might not be.

Steam made me more or less completely stop pirating games once, but I hate to admit that for every month that passes that option looks more and more tempting again.
 

zvate

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Aug 12, 2010
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Okay, so steam becomes the app store and we can all enjoy another type of price gauging (exchanging recoil for the freemuim dungeon keeper Jim just reviewed). Is this really the improvement we want?

We are literally complaining about too much freedom in the gaming environment. Yes we can pick up our own crap and eat it but aren't sandbox's still all the rage?
 

Lightknight

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McKitten said:
I usually agree with Jim, but on this i've got to say fuck no. Steam is shaping up to become a near-monopoly like Amazon, and the absolutely last thing we as customers need is for them to grant third parties permissions to sell to us. That's a position of power that is absolutely going to be abused.
What? Jim just wants Steam to hold its content providers accountable. To curate their stuff. Where are you getting "grant third parties permission to sell to us"? What does that even mean in relation to this topic?


(Remember when people actually believed google about their "don't be evil" shtick? Yeah, funny that)
Yeah, haha, like that time they started google fiber to scare the huge ogliopoly of ISPs into not taking advantage of consumers. That worked so well some of them actually started providing a better service for a reasonable price and others try to pass legislation to stop it because competition hurts them...

http://boingboing.net/2014/01/31/kansas-cable-lobbyist-writes-b.html

You know, that time they made a company that boasts 1Gb down/up for $70 which is cheaper than many Americans are paying for over 15Mb Down/ 5Mb up.

Google isn't evil. They do a shit ton of stuff that greatly benefits mankind. From putting up huge cash prizes to reward scientific developments that benefit mankind to providing legitiamte competition across multiple markest. It's correct to say that they're in the position to do evil, it's incorrect to say that they are currently doing so.

What steam could use on the other hand is a better implementation of review scores so that it makes it just as easy to find out about a product as it is to spend money on the product. For example, they could have links to reviews on news sites like metacritic does. Or heck, just link to metacritic. And put that right on top of the page.
That's exactly what Jim is saying when he points out that the consumer is being silenced.

And steam DOES link to metacritic. It's just that metacritic doesn't review these small shitty titles that no one has ever heard of. So those links are missing.
 

LordLundar

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Fappy said:
Considering this video WAS about Steam specifically, I don't see what the issue is. Mentioning whether or not other business' are doing it better or worse is irrelevant. His argument is that Steam is doing something wrong and that they should fix it.
The problem is blaming Valve for the quality issues is the same as blaming GameStop for used games. All it is is giving a scapegoat out there so everyone else can be happily ignored. The problem is with the industry itself, not a single store and Valve suddenly accepting responsibility when no one else does is not a magical bullet that going to fix the industry. All that's going to happen is the makers of this drek is going to another outlet who will happily put it out and nothing is fixed.

Sorry, but a "Not in my Backyard" answer is not going to fix things.
 

Dr.Awkward

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For Greenlight, It's simple.

Make use of the Concepts section.

Often I've seen more than enough games that aren't even past alpha stage, yet through lucrative plans or using some novel idea get into the main section and gain the attention that quite honestly the game doesn't even deserve yet. If they would close off that section, but make the concepts section free to enter, the number of new games and software that aren't even near a release version should plummet if they all have to go through the concepts section, and thus a double-check to make sure the game meets what's promised and is in an acceptable condition.

In other words, Concepts -> Games (or Software) -> Steam Store

Alternatively, Steam should open up a mobile app store that allows for people to buy games that will both work on Android or Apple devices, and allowed to download either version on any phone they are logged into. This itself is a gap that's a rather big opportunity for someone to nab, and right now Steam is in the best position to snatch that opportunity. I mean, how many iOS and Android games being ported to PC have you seen on Steam Greenlight as well?
 

Limos

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I feel like a year ago the complaint was that Valve was too closed off and since it controlled most of the PC market that meant smaller publishers were getting squeezed out and they need to open up the marketplace more. Which they did, and this is what happened.

Valve used to be picky with who and what got on Steam, and everybody bitched, so they open the door and now everybody is bitching again.
 

daxterx2005

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Jim, after seeing the book at the end, I went back and watched the start....the initial spit looked to clear the podium!
But then you made a goofy ass noise and dribbled....and I heard it land all over your book.
*shakes head*
You can do spit takes again, just dont do noise dribbles :p
 

lord.jeff

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I have to completely disagree this time Jim, they are a store it's not their job to decide what goes out and what doesn't, especially with a store as powerful as Steam where not being on the Steam shelf can mean no one sees your game. It is the job of developers to make a good game not the stores and it's not the stores job nor is it the stores job to decide if a title is good enough to be bought by you that's your job as a consumer. This is a great example of giving up freedom for convenience let Steam control the market and decide what I should buy because I'm too lazy to look up gameplay footage and reviews.
 

matrix3509

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Sep 24, 2008
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I honestly have no sympathy. This is what was bound to happen after all the fucktards starting screaming for there being no barrier to entry for getting onto Steam. When there is no barrier to entry, the amount of putrid excrement you have to wade through just to find something worth looking at increases exponentially. This is what people were screaming for, stop being a ***** and suck it up.
 

Chimpzy_v1legacy

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Jun 21, 2009
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josh4president said:
Two words:

App Store
Yes, what's your point? Is it that Steam is going the way of the App Store and Google Play and turning into a cesspool of shovelware? Or is it that we should lay off Steam because those two are far worse, which in no way actually invalidates Jim's argument? Something else?

Sometimes using more than two words is a good thing.
 

ImBigBob

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To be honest, I had no idea the store was oversaturated like this. Guess that's what happens when I play nothing but Spelunky!