Jimquisition: Steam Needs Quality Control

[Fappy]

Considering this video WAS about Steam specifically, I don't see what the issue is. Mentioning whether or not other business' are doing it better or worse is irrelevant. His argument is that Steam is doing something wrong and that they should fix it.

The problem is blaming Valve for the quality issues is the same as blaming GameStop for used games. All it is is giving a scapegoat out there so everyone else can be happily ignored. The problem is with the industry itself, not a single store and Valve suddenly accepting responsibility when no one else does is not a magical bullet that going to fix the industry. All that's going to happen is the makers of this drek is going to another outlet who will happily put it out and nothing is fixed.

Sorry, but a "Not in my Backyard" answer is not going to fix things.

I don't think he's really looking for an industry-saving solution to this issue. Despite what he says in this particular video, Jim actually does like Steam, and I think this is him just airing his woes about a platform he wants to improve. There may be a more fundamental cause for the shoddy quality control we see these days, but that doesn't mean that Steam needs to exacerbate the problem, nor does it mean they can't play a role in improving it themselves. Jim isn't saying the issue starts and ends with Steam, he's just saying it is part of the problem and that it should do its part in improving the situation. To lead by example, so that the other outlets you sited earlier may also follow suite.

EDIT: Edited for verbiage.

 

[Koshok]

Steam should implement a refund policy. I mean a real one, not the once only if you beg the service desk. It really doesn't make sense for Steam not to have a refund policy any more, especially with all the questionable games getting put on the store. Valve could easily set it up in such a way to prevent people from playing the game through and returning it. Simply have something about duration played, and/or purchase date. This would do two things: one, it would encourage people to try out all these questionable games to find the diamonds. And two: it would force the games that aren't very good to be more accountable. If people are calling for a lot of refunds, then it's on the developer to figure out where they screwed up.

Steam keeps trying to crowd source their quality control, either through Greenlight, or the review system, and this has only resulted in net harm to the service. A refund policy would net them some good will as well as help them clean up the store a bit.

 

[GAunderrated]

I'm not really seeing the issue here. It's isn't difficult to use reviews both on Steam and elsewhere to judge the quality of a game. For instance, Guise of the Wolf has almost all negative reviews on Steam. The claims that Steam resembles the video game market in the 1980s is ridiculous hyperbole. Steam still sells nearly all of the big mainstream PC games, and is the number one source of surprise indie games. This whole episode is a non-issue.

Also, presumably it would be monumentally time consuming for Steam to play through every game offered to their library.

The issue is as a consumer I used to be able to go to steam, browse their section and see a few familiar games and some new ones that I might want to check out. If I liked what I saw or the videos I watched I purchased that game. Sometimes even just doing a impulse buy on a sale.

However, now that there are so many junk games flooded onto steam weekly, a game that is a week old isn't even on page 3 of the top 10 new releases. There is so much crap to sift through now and guess what I am not getting paid to research all this flooded nonsense and I have a life so I don't have the time. I've had my biggest steam dry spell for purchases in 6 years and that speaks volumes to valves lack of quality control.

 

[Thanatos2k]

Question: at what point are you going to make the same demands of brick and mortar stores and other online stores like Gamefly?

Because everything you are accusing Steam of happens in every store, physical or digital. To say that Steam needs to filter when no one else does is disingenuous at best.

While Steam has started to resemble the Nintendo Wii section at a Best Buy, at least you had a reasonable expectation the Wii games WORKED when you put them into the console.

 

[TiberiusEsuriens]

Jim, I think one of Valve's big pushes is to create a relatively open environment with reasonable access (while making even more money for doing so, of course). There's a difference between unplayable and ugly/glitchy/bad. How do they walk the line between the worlds of relatively open access vs closed and controlled? Who sets the standards and how are they gauged? There are some truly innovative indie games that wouldn't pass most standards but end up being great to play.

I think I'd rather see them implement a much more reliable customer response to games. Just something that can't be controlled by the developers like it is now. A steam equivalent of metacritic. Most of the crappier games have no link to metacritic and so you have to go off-site to review them. Even likes aren't always displayed. This nonsense of forced lack of critical information is the most valid point anyone has mentioned for Steam's content so far (so thanks for bringing that to my attention, can't believe that developers control customer content on steam).

I know steam benefits when people unknowingly buy shit. I mean, free money and they're likely to buy another game sooner because they're not going to spend more time playing that garbage? Yeah, it benefits them multiple ways. But informed consumerism is a conerstone of a healthy market.

I'd agree to that. "Open" is the curse of a lot of market places, and that's no different with Valve. It's such a great idea, but it has just so many negative results, mostly because it is based on good faith of allegedly good-natured people.

While Steam already has a lot of review information, if they simply showed the average review score, or even just majority of thumbs up/down, on the highest level store tiles it would help people filter out the crap. When creating a truly open market, more power must be given not only to the sellers, but to the buyers as well. Valve has some really tough decisions to make, because whether they let more games on or let users send the bad ones to downvote-hell, they're inevitably going to be faced with the same problem the console marketplaces have had: good or small games getting drowned out.

 

[Something Amyss]

I used to be able to browse the store quite happily, finding plenty to add to my wishlist and making the odd impulse purchase.

How far back was that? Long as I've been on Steam, there have been broken pieces of crap, unplayable games, and worse: Steam putting them on sale. That's how I found out about a lot of them: I would see an interesting idea for a game, check out discussions on Steam or look up reviews elsewhere, and find a steaming, broken, mess.

No pun intended. I didn't even catch that until I stopped to take a sip of my drink.

The message seems clear, though: Valve values the influx of money more than they do QA or customer service.

Question: at what point are you going to make the same demands of brick and mortar stores and other online stores like Gamefly?

I wasn't aware brick and mortar stores had unlimited shelf space for low quality games.

I'd also note that Valve are supposed to be the QA/CS guys. Not Gamestop, not GameFly, not Origin, not RandomGamestoreOnline. GoG, yes, but they don't have Guise of the Wolf.

Considering this video WAS about Steam specifically, I don't see what the issue is. Mentioning whether or not other business' are doing it better or worse is irrelevant. His argument is that Steam is doing something wrong and that they should fix it.

And since the programs mentioned are fairly Steam-specific, it makes sense to address them.

 

[Amir Kondori]

I don't want Steam to be the arbiter of what is good enough for me to buy and what it isn't. I will use user reviews, press reviews, and my own research to determine if I want to buy something. If it is early access I will exercise caution. If it has gone through Greenlight I will do extra research.

I think the central thrust of this video is not the best thing for gamers. Before things like early access and greenlight does everyone remember how many good games couldn't get on Steam? I'd much rather have more crap to wade through then go back to having any non-AAA game's chances of getting on Steam to be a crap shoot.

 

[Evonisia]

Maybe I should look at the Steam game store more often, because if what you say is true, Jim, I should find quite a load of crap to YouTube and laugh at.

 

[Darklupus]

I'm not really seeing the issue here. It's isn't difficult to use reviews both on Steam and elsewhere to judge the quality of a game. For instance, Guise of the Wolf has almost all negative reviews on Steam. The claims that Steam resembles the video game market in the 1980s is ridiculous hyperbole. Steam still sells nearly all of the big mainstream PC games, and is the number one source of surprise indie games. This whole episode is a non-issue.

Also, presumably it would be monumentally time consuming for Steam to play through every game offered to their library.

To me, it truly is an issue. This video is about the easy to fine flaws and obvious disrespect developers have for the games that they are "creating" and just want to make a quick buck. Jim briefly mentioned something about "stealing their thunder" in this episode here probably inferring about how the game developers "came out" of the video game recession of the 1980s. This affects me because working in the video game industry is a dream job for me and probably lots of other people, and if every video game developer is still using NDAs to bait players out of their ideas they might have for their own future creations then I and many others might as well choose a different job. If this happens, it could be the death of the video game industry albeit educational video game devs will probably still be around.

 

[Sectan]

Isn't 505 Games the one who published Payday 2? Is Payday 2 just one of the diamonds among the shit that 505 helped push on to Steam or am I completely out of the loop here?

 

[BloodRed Pixel]

So a few people get burned with buying Early Access or the next best Shit without inventigating first if it' worth their Money. Well let them, either they are stupid and rich and thus don't care or they get wise and spent their money more intelligently, later (and hopefully do this with other products, too).

Content Quality Control as such is not really on on Steams Fault. Only allowing Early Access is.
They really should abandon this.
The better solution is that Steam establishes an official way for REFUNDING that does not put the user at their mercy.


Though Apple iOS QA works still quite good for the most part sparing their customers a lot of shit that is happen in the Android market, say what you will.

 

[kanetsb]

Shit gets onto Steam through Greenlight because normal people do not vote there, only the few fans that any game maker managed to accumulate on Reddit through free copies of the game - kids mostly. Then there are fake votes too apparently, stuff that you buy these days to game the system.

 

[m19]

I'm not seeing the issue. You are behind your computer with the internet at your fingertips. Google the thing before you throw money at it, watch a youtube video, read a review. So much less of a problem than standing in a store with only the box art and the description to aid your choice. Don't blame your own stupidity on the market place.

 

[synobal]

Honestly I thought people were suppose to do product research before buying something. Ya valve could do better but so could people. Hell they have reviews now right on steam, and then there is the industry of reviewers, like say Jim and such.

 

[spartandude]

Idealy i would like only quality products to be put on sale. However i dont think that it's Steams responsibility to make everything they sell to be good, it should be the publishers/devs that do that. However what Steam is failing in is its god damn refund policies. Heck they try to argue that "Early Access" isnt a pre order and should be treated like an actual release when it comes to refunds, which begs the question How is it EARLY ACCESS!?

 

[Blachman201_v1legacy]

I have to completely disagree this time Jim, they are a store it's not their job to decide what goes out and what doesn't, especially with a store as powerful as Steam where not being on the Steam shelf can mean no one sees your game. It is the job of developers to make a good game not the stores and it's not the stores job nor is it the stores job to decide if a title is good enough to be bought by you that's your job as a consumer. This is a great example of giving up freedom for convenience let Steam control the market and decide what I should buy because I'm too lazy to look up gameplay footage and reviews.

Selling products that are broken or incomplete under the pretence that they are full products is a common definition of fraud though. Stores have an obligation to prevent fraud, or else they can, at the very least, be accused of indirectly condoning it.

 

[Mark B]

Two words:

App Store

Thats just the other end of the spectrum half life 2 wouldnt make it on the app store.

I've stopped buying early access titles and I've noticed that the bigger developer games have dried up too. I'm putting the latter down to a new console generation, but it could just as easily be market supersaturation.

 

[veloper]

I'm unconcearned. Who still buys games purely on impulse anyway, much less on an online store like Steam?

The suggestion for a good filter, as mentioned earlier in this thread, would still be a useful addition and I can see more room for improvement, but there's no valid comparison to the atari 2600 videogame crash.

 

[Gameguy20100]

Yea this is just giving me more reasons not to buy digitally.

I always said Valve are in many ways destructive looks like I was right.