Jimquisition: Steam Needs Quality Control

[88chaz88]

All I heard was "Steam needs to, Steam needs to". I did not hear the same demands toward Gamestop (both physical store and digital), Best Buy, Gamefly, etc. In fact, the only mention of another store was GoG who does filter (and even then they have made mistakes) and that's mainly because because their primary market is classic games modified by them so they HAVE to issue that promise.

So I ask again: where's the demand for other stores to require quality control at the level you're demanding of Steam?

I wouldn't know about Gamestop but when I buy a game from the aptly named GAME chain over here, I can be fairly sure it's at least fit for purpose, at least barring a few notable exceptions. I doubt this is because they have much in the way of quality control, but more due to it being mainly a download distribution problem. Many publishers that bother to spend their money to box games will usually test it out a little bit before wasting their cash.

As for other digital distribution outlets, Steam may not be the worst for this but it's certainly the most visable one doing this. GoG, Gamersgate, and even Origin all seem to have better quality assurance and/or refund scheme if something's not fit for purpose. And they certainly don't allow games on their platforms just because the community liked the idea.

 

[captain underpants]

It really isn't Steam's job. Buyer beware and all that. Shonky developers are going to game the system whatever Valve does. They'll just end up endlessly chasing their own tail.

However what they do really, really, seriously need is a decent refund system to allow customers some recourse when they do buy a game that doesn't meet expectations, even if it's just store credit as commonly practiced in brick and mortar stores.

Customer support in general on Steam is pretty appalling, actually. I know I always experience a general sense of hopelessness whenever I have to try and contact them. Even if you do get a response from someone other than a robot, it's usually unsatisfactory. I say fix that before even thinking about any kind of censorship/'quality control' on the service.

 

[DirkDeadeye]

Games on steam used to mean they weren't total crap. They worked, and they deserve a place in the market. You knew..for the most part it'd be a solid game worth your time and money.

That's a great place for people to go. Like a craft beer store that isn't full of stupid fuckin' pseudo belgian beers, and shit like shock top.

Now, I'm sketchy. Now I have to look things up, there are so many games very deserving of my attention and cash buried under tons of shitty shovelware that..I honestly quit buying games there. Unless I hear from multiple sources, the bros on my teamspeak, or the youtube bros I talk to..I'm not going in there. It's like browsing through a shitty flea market..I might make it out with something halfway decent..when I embarked on a quest to find something really good.

Yeah, fuckin' A steam doesn't have to QC the games on their store. They don't have to steward them either. But you can't possibly disagree that a steam that isn't full of shitty shovelware, and broken games would be a bad thing, right? RIGHT? Come on people, I know how to google. But also know what it was to have a hard decision of a lot of good, quality games..versus a lot of games that might make me feel regret.

 

[Mangue Surfer]

Be your own quality control, do your own research before making a purchase. You'll make a few mistakes but then you quickly learn how do spot crappy games from good ones. Having to many choices is a first world problem if I ever heard of one.

This! Is the quality control of life. Everyone should try for themselves.

 

[iniudan]

If what Gabe said in a previous conference, Steam is planning user controlled store to replace Greenlight. So would be able to have something like the Sterling, TB or AngryJoe Steam Store, etc. Would be a good way to have curated store, has you basically just subscribe to store that you trust the selection.

Here the conference where Gabe mentioned that possibility. Sorry for lack of accurate time, where it is mentioned.

 

[hazydawn]

That spitting looked really authentic. Was it the first take?

 

[Callate]

I'd actually rather that Greenlight stay. I think we benefit from a low-overhead, high-visibility place where indie games that don't have big publisher support can get a viewing, and I think the underlying idea is a good one.

But much as Jim says about the rest of Steam, it could definitely use some reform. In the case of Greenlight, more transparency and some sense of community moderation would be a big help. It remains obscure to me how the umpteenth version of Dragon's Lair made it through Greenlight (or why it went through Greenlight in the first place), and I get very tired of seeing games get "voted down" because some other reviewer who voted up managed to piss someone off.

 

[major_chaos]

So I ask again: where's the demand for other stores to require quality control at the level you're demanding of Steam?

Retail stores have a certain amount of built in quality control in the form of the investment needed to have a physical release, something that all this 0 effort no name trash like Rekoil and Revelations can't pull off.
EDIT: Also refunds. If I buy a shitty game at Gamestop I can simply return it and buy something else. Steam on the other hand has a crippling fear of giving you your money back for any reason, even if the game you bought literally does not work.

 

[Vigormortis]

I honestly have no sympathy. This is what was bound to happen after all the fucktards starting screaming for there being no barrier to entry for getting onto Steam. When there is no barrier to entry, the amount of putrid excrement you have to wade through just to find something worth looking at increases exponentially. This is what people were screaming for, stop being a ***** and suck it up.

If it weren't for the "fiascoes" over the past few years about the "barrier to entry" on Steam, I'd wholeheartedly agree with Jim in this instance. However, I'm more inline with your view.

This is what most of you asked for. Many of you claimed a game's success was predicated on whether it released on Steam or not and that, therefore, Steam should allow more games in. Now own up to the realization that this was a bad fucking idea.

That said, I do agree that Valve needs to reinstate quality assurance measures[footnote]Note the emphasis on reinstate.[/footnote]. However, that still won't address the real core of the issue. Namely: the developers and the consumers. Or rather, sleazy and/or lazy business practices of the devs and publishers, and the lack of rational restraint amongst the consumers.

Do your bloody homework, people. You impulse buy a candy bar, not a 40+ dollar media product.

If you buy a game and it turns out to be bad, especially if you pre-purchase or buy early access, then the consequences are squarely on your shoulders. Let the experience be a lesson to be more careful with future purchases.

Buyer beware.

 

[thisbymaster]

The customer reviews need to not be able to be modded by the devs. It should be more like Amazon.

 

[seditary]

One of your worst videos in my opinion Jim.

Steam needs a robust returns/refund system and that's it.

Valve is not some parent to make my decisions for me.

 

[sXeth]

Considering he is constantly defending Gamestop, it does seem a bit like he's just picking Steam to talk about like this because it's moderately beloved. Jim seems to love going against the popular opinion. Which normally isn't a bad thing, since the popular opinion is usually wrong, but in this case?.... eh.

In a decent 20 year span or so of buying stuff at Gamestop (or Electronics Boutique, as it is up here), I've encountered unplayable games exactly twice (Skyrim on PS3 before a gazillion patches, and Ultima 9). Ride to Hell or A:CM may be terribly visioned, obviously having cut content, and boring crap with terrible AI, but they don't crash out and die constantly and are still functionally playable, if you have any desire to do so. It really is the issue with the indie and PC gaming industry spitting out garbage, and STEAM needs to take the lead on this over GOG/Gamefly/Origin, because they're the industry leader, which entails some level of responsibility alongside taking baths in their giant pile of commission cash.

 

[Lykosia_v1legacy]

Ehhh... I go back and forth on this... Obviously the QC at the PS3 and Xbox 360 camp did so well with Aliens:CM.... BUUUT we seem to expect more from Steam because well it is PC(MAC/Linux). Right now the best thing we have to QC for steam is the player reviews.... But that means some poor SOB bought a turd of a product first, and that kind of sits raw with me.

Edit forgot to tell you thanks for telling me to avoid recoil I was looking that the other day!

Alien: CM is at least playable and a masterpiece compared to some shit that is on Steam right now and some of them were mentioned in the video. Currently situation is that you can't even be sure that the game works when you buy it from Steam. This is especially true with older games.

 

[Infernal Lawyer]

*Sigh* Well, you got what you wanted, guys, a free market. Good thing I don't care because I don't need to buy any more games for my library, unless I see something I want in a $5 bundle.

Still, Steam should reconsider it's policy on refunds, since I have a feeling that a lot of devs know they can get away with selling a shitty product since noone can return it. Although, of course, how do you treat Early Access games? It's clear that a lot of people buy them and then act surprised when it turns out (shock and horror) that they've bought and unfinished product, so punishing the devs for the customer's stupidity is a bad idea. Still, if it's true that 'full products' turn out to be buggy, broken messes, then that'll take a lot of ease off the customer's shoulders.

 

[Baresark]

While I own a ridiculous number of games on Steam... he is completely right. Every single day there is a whole new page of releases, and a lot of it is very very bad. All these bad games are literally making an argument against indie developed games and a point for AAA developed games. I mean, they come out shitty, but nothing to the tune that some of these horribly developed indie games do. And don't get me started on Early Access. It's a great concept, but there should be some level of expected progress before a game can be sold... and don't get me started on the ones that are sold for more during early access.

 

[Something Amyss]

There isn't even a point in paying attention to the weekly deals Steam does, because they're always filled with mostly terrible games and one or two mediocre games. Hell, this week is probably the third time Jack Keane has been in a weekly sale in the last three months.

I forgot to even look for Steam's weekly sales the last couple of weeks. So I checked. AI Wars or whatever it's called strikes me as somewhat interesting, so maybe I'll download the demo, but I don't hold much hope. Their weekly salkes have really become synonymous with crap for me.

I mean, on a rare occasion, I'll see something I wanted where the sale price drops it into acceptable territory, but usually it's crap. And on games where the forums aren't locked down, there are often a lot of warnings not to buy the game.

I don't see them trying to curate it any time soon, though. Dem dolla dolla bills, y'all.

I don't see any imperative for them to do it, either. They're making money off those terrible games, they have a huge install base, and they have as loyal a following as Nintendo who seem to believe Valve is the good guy.

the reference to the 80's isn't lost on me and dear lord they released some shitty games back then en mass and we have reached that level of over saturated shittiness thanks to the explosion of Indy games and clones in the last few years.

That's where the similarities end, though.

Nothing good lasts forever, but the turning point seems to be right about the time maximizing profits becomes a greater concern than anything else.

That was a long way back, though.

So, when you do your groceries or other shopping, you don't expect the retailer to take any role in quality control at all?

Special pleading. It's different because...Ponies. There are a bunch of reasons offered up, but it's a special pleading fallacy.

So when Steam only had a handful of games, people complained that Valve were restricting their choice. Now they have oodles of games and Jim is complaining that some of them are shit?

I think you missed a period where they were treated as the greatest thing since sliced bread and people would refuse to buy a game if it wasn't on the almighty STEEEEEEEEEAM.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Wait and watch and read the forums, just because its released dose not mean you have to buy it.....

 

[Nurb]

Game Developers Don't Wear Ties

 

[bug_of_war]

Also, presumably it would be monumentally time consuming for Steam to play through every game offered to their library.

It's time consuming to rate every game, movie and television show, yet every country seems to be able to pull together groups of people in order to rate the video game. Steam is a company yeah, but they're also a service, and seeing as how they just recently boasted an increase in users with their service it should be their responsibility to allocate time to areas that need it. If you're gonna do something, do it right, don't just fuck around and hope it all works out. I'm willing to bet their want to remove Greenlight is due to the amount of shit that is coming from it.

snip

I couldn't have agreed more when you talked about Steam's handling with old games. They sell Vampire The Masquerade for $20 yet at no point on the Steam store page does it say that it is literally unplayable unless you download a mod. Even though it's game publishers and developers responsibility, how the fuck is it fair that Steam doesn't kick them in the ass?

 

[Hitchmeister]

I think the mistake is thinking that being available on Steam has ever been, or implied to have been, an indication of quality. We're talking about a retailer with unlimited warehouse and shelf space. There's no reason for them to not sell anything and everything anyone wants to offer. Yet for some reason they make indie developers without a publisher jump through the malfunctioning hoops of Greenlight, which, I guess, opens them up for criticism of this sort. People need to keep in mind, and Valve would probably do themselves a favor by posting a disclaimer to the effect, that simply being on Steam says absolutely nothing about the quality of the product and anything you see on the publisher/developer moderated Steam forums is censored and biased. You need to look to outside sources to determine if anything you see there is remotely worth your money.