Jimquisition: The Adblock Episode

[rembrandtqeinstein]

I'm happy Jim is being reasonable about the whole thing.

I have a parable for the pro-advertising people and the ones running this site in general.

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Joe loves making hotdogs. But more than he loves making hotdogs is he loves it when people eat the hotdogs he makes. So he saves up some money and sets up a hotdog stand and gives away his hotdogs for the joy of seeing people eat them. And people love his free hotdogs and he loves watching them be eaten.

Unfortunately Joe has to keep working his day job to support his hotdog hobby. And he can't cook and give away as many hotdogs as he wants on his limited income. So he instead of giving away hotdogs for free he tries to sell them for enough to recoup his costs and make a living wage. Sadly not enough people are willing to pay what the hotdogs cost and to support Joe and he can't sustain his business.

Along comes Adam with a proposition for Joe. Adam will pay Joe to give away his hotdogs for free, but the catch is that Adam gets to put a tiny insect in each one. Now Adam isn't just a dick who gets joy out of seeing people eat bugs (even though he is a dick). Adam actually gets paid significantly more than he pays Joe by other, shadier people for each bug he gets someone to eat.

Joe reluctantly agrees because Joe isn't really that creative and can't think of any other way to support himself giving away free hotdogs. He still gets the joy of cooking hotdogs, and only feels a little bad for putting a bug in each one, since the vast majority of people don't seem to care as long as the hotdog is free. Oh sure a few people complain loudly and publicly but with the money Joe is earning he can afford to hire security guards to shoo away anyone who even talks about the bugs near his cart.

And for a while things are going fine. But eventually other hotdog philanthropists spring up, because apparently a lot of people would love to make a living cooking and giving away free hotdogs. And now that Adam has a hotdog vendors competing for his dollar, he can make them put in bigger, grosser, and more obvious bugs. Some of the hotdog vendors feel really bad about putting big bugs in their hotdogs (some don't care at all), but again they can't think of any other way to make money so they keep doing it.

Eventually Joe has a revelation. Maybe Adam's money isn't worth the bad feelings he gets for feeding people bugs. He decides to quit. Then he gets back his non-hotdog related day job and occasionally, for fun, sets up a stand to give away a few bug-free hotdogs every once in a while, and though Joe can't produce as many hotdogs as before he is happier for it.

The end.

 

[Smurf McSmurfington]

The curious thing about ads on (youtube) videos is that I simply don't get them very often (like once or twice every month or two), adblock or not, probably because given that I live in a very tiny country on the edge of the EU (one that has a very uncommon language that has barely any similar languages - closest being finnish), theres basically fuck all that can be targeted towards me.

I consider myself somewhat lucky in that regard, though unfortunately this also means that I can't really support the content creators I'm watching in any way shape or form, other than the few ads I do get once or twice every month or two.

I do have adblock to manually turn off really obnoxious ads, but if they aren't all that obnoxious I just don't see the point in turning 'em off anyway, so that's good I suppose.

So um... pancakes?

 

[Earthmonger]

I actually don't care about ads much. They're useful for filling empty space. With the caveat that, any animated advertisement is going to be banished from my sight immediately and never return. It's the scripts that bother me. What is all this?

Which of these is responsible for serving up advertisements, and which of these is privacy-invading click-tracking scum? It's hard to know without researching every one. Ads are okay with me. Stat tracking is not.

 

[Rattja]

I am wondering who the hell makes these things? They should really be ashamed if you ask me...
"Warning your PC is infected!" Seriously? No flashing random add, it is not.

I get that they make money, and that is fine, but I don't really agree with allowing things like that on a site.
I don't really mind adds if they are somewhat funny or informative, but when they are downright crap and screems "let me fuck you over" then we have a problem.

In general I think that if you want to stop a certain behaviour, force, threats or punishment is not the way to go. If you want people to allow adds, make them less painfull and annoying. Don't add sound that starts once the site loads, don't have things that pop up in your face, don't have things that flash so much you may trigger epilepsy.
If you allow things like this on your site, and then wonder why people block it and get upset when they do, you may want to take a few steps back and think about the situation.

I used to think that the money came from the ammounts of clicks, and not how many allowed adds to show, so I never gave it any thought. Whitelisted Escapist, and it's seems to be alright. Clicked around some, watched the vid again and nothing that actually got in my face so it's cool.

But I really want the people who run this site to think about which adds they allow to run, just... think about it, that's all I ask.

 

[Fyffer]

I went without Adblock at all untl very recently. Simply far too many ads blocking or playing over the sites actual content. One site I go to tended to have an ad for some truck I'd never buy that expanded if you made the mistake of having your mouse travel over it...and covered the comic on the page without any way I could find to close the ad again without refreshing. Websites should not be advertising minefields.

What I'd like to see is an adblocking program that maybe lists the various types of ads out there, and updates as new types are created, and you pick the ones you will and will not tolerate. Hopefully with that model you could support the site through the less intrusive ads and advertisers might be encouraged to shift more towards the ads people are willing to deal with.

 

[Squintsalot]

I don't understand your argument here.

Emotional black mail would be if he showed you pictures of his starving children and said here's what happens when you use adblock, and he isn't doing that in the slightest. He goes so painstakingly out of his way to drive the point home that he is not trying to say that its wrong to use adblock, he is simply spelling out how it effects the escapist and himself as well as your part in that equation.

To spell this out for you, If you want to criticize him and not contribute, your opinion is still valuable. If you want to criticize him, not contribute, and be an asshole, then your opinion is valueless (worthless, meaningless, etc).

Most artist and content creators do what they do to interact with their audience, why does it offend you so much when they try to?

Seriously, the way you wrote that post, I almost feel like you're writing to the Make A Wish Foundation, because how dare they appeal to you for donations because those kids will never care about whether or not you're dying.

tl;dr

Calm down!

I never said blackmail, but manipulation. Take the time to read my post again carefully, please.

The value of one's opinion is not determined by whether or not they contribute to Jim's paycheck. Contributing is utterly irrelevant in establishing the value of opinions. Value comes from whether or not your opinion is substantiated, from whether or not you're able to reasonably argue your point. That is all.

 

[dubious_wolf]

or you could just pay 20-30 dollars for an entire freaking year.
just you know...
an idea.

 

[C14N]

I have it and have used it for years but I really feel it's days are numbered. More and more people are using it and the creator had a sort of bizarre campaign to get Adblock to everybody, seemingly not realising that if 100% of a websites users are blocking the ads, it just won't function anymore. Right now the number of blockers is small enough that most websites can deal with it but as the number goes up we'll see more of those "disable Adblock to view this website" messages. It's kind of like piracy in that it's really not a big deal when a small number of people do it, it's just that it's so easy and obviously beneficial that it's hard to see why it wouldn't spread quickly.

 

[DirgeNovak]

Yaaay Jim got my shitty mask!

 

[Grim Sterling]

or you could just pay 20-30 dollars for an entire freaking year.
just you know...
an idea.

That's what I did ultimately. I normally have adblock going but not because I don't want to support content creators so much as I have found a number of sites use centralized ad companies, who do not properly monitor the ads they disperse. This leads to a lot of virus/malware/spyware getting on systems and junking it up (I've seen this twice on my wife's pc due to her playing games on facebook and going to sites with lot of side ads).

I can say I have never gotten a infection from Escapists site, but I've even seen my software block masliscious IP's for ads streamed in Skype's software. And that bothers me.

I grabbed a year subscript for this site. There is more than enough content to appreciate, it's generally good quality, and I feel I get my money's worth while helping the content creators, and saving me from having to fiddle with the ads.

I saw the original exchange between Jim and the guy talking about ad blocks, and I regret they ended up having such a long back-n-forth on that thread (it felt rather like shouting at a trashcan to stop being so smelly) but this was a kool result, a video that tries to explain and discuss a bit of how web content and commerce works.

 

[votemarvel]

I have adblock on but do disable to click ads to support people who make content I enjoy.

Oddly my primary reason for using it is to do away with annoying animated, usually very badly, gifs people used as avatars and signatures on forums.

Those things drive me far more crazy than ads. It gets a good workout blocking many user avatars here on the Escapist.

 

[Breywood]

Normally I run NoScript and I believe it has saved me a ton of grief because I do occasionally wind up on sites with dubious reputations in my searches. On the other hand, Jim, you did offer an olive branch without trying to slap me with it, so I'll adjust it for The Escapist.

EDIT: I'm running a single core 2.5GHz Dell with 1GB of RAM, which is about max for this machine. It just cooked me an omelet after opening the Scriptgates, but I'll make a definite consideration to buying a pub club subscription when I can pass a jar of mayonnaise through the budget belt.

 

[franksands]

As Jim says, people need money to pay the bills. If there's a site I really like, I subscribe to it, because I want people to continue to write/make stuff for the site. You get all the content with none of the ads. And it's a very reasonable price most of the times. Here it's $20 a year, that's $1.67 a month. I currently subscribe to Escapist and Ars Technica. Ars is $50 a year, but on the other hand, they produce a lot more content, as far as I know.
If there is a site with a lot of ads, intrusive ads and I don't like the content that much, I look for an alternative. That's it. Life without ad blocking.

 

[Vault Citizen]

A while back I came across a way to skip through the adds on escapist videos without addblock, I was even going to share it too by messaging random non publisher club members (I figured if I just posted the exploit up on the escapist forum it would get spotted and fixed) but I didn't. Before I had sent out my first message I realised that this would be a dick move on my part and so instead I emailed the escapist and told them what the exploit was so they could fix it. I'm glad I did this because the escapist has a lot of great content and I feel that as a user it would have been wrong of me to go with my original idea.

 

[nathanmcknz]

As an avid follower of jimquisition I will do as you asked and turn off adblocker for this website.

Only because you used your manners.

Keep on bringing out excellent posts... please and thank you
(good manners always prevails)

 

[Redd the Sock]

A thought I'd like to put out there for content creators (since the mods are watching this one like a hawk).

Sometimes you need to look at yourself. Legitimate companies complaining their ads are being blocked have been too quick to judge the users of it as thieves, instead of looking at the complaints and saying that this is a market we're not only not reaching, but driving away from our products by being too "in your face at all times". I like ads so I can learn about other products I might like, and I think most reasonable people feel the same, but the 50th ad I've been forced to see for the same product isn't further endearing.

Then there's the larger elephant in the room. Several of us have brought up the obvious malware / ransomware scams, data mining and other invasions of privacy that make us afraid of any online ad. This activity is at best immoral and at worst illegal, and if your paycheck comes from their advertising, it bears a thought to ask yourself if you support these activities by continuing to take their money. The ads I'm talking about are prevelant everywhere, so I don't mean to single out the Escapist, but any of us still seeing ads have seen the scam ones from the obvious "your registry needs cleaning" or "update your browser" scams, to some less obvious "looks like advertising" ads for anti aging secrets or high paying jobs in our area. Most of us don't fall for the crap, but enough do to make them profitable, and aside from enabling the problem, it's safe to assume that some of the money paid to run your site is what they got from successful scams. I credit the tech team here for trying to put out the fires, but sometimes you have to stop the arsonist.

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

That analogy doesn't really hold up for me. Most directors direct movies because they love the craft of making movies, not because they want to be rich. By putting it this way, you're essentially saying that The Escapist is in it just for the advertising dollars, not for the content.

You get that the Escapist staff and its contributors are PAID to do this job, right?

You get that Jim said he would do these videos for the love of doing it, right?

You don't do a job to create something great. You do a job to get paid. If you get to create something great in the process, that's a bonus.

That's the exact opposite to how many creative people work. They want to do something great. If they get paid doing it, that's a bonus.

In fact, if you start out just trying to make money, rather than do something you love, you are unlikely to make something great (or get paid for it).

I agree with all of this, but I think you're missing one rather crucial point here.

I'm a creative person, and a reasonably successful one in my own very limited sphere, if you define "success" as to whether people actually enjoy what you've created (they do). I'd HATE to be a slave to the salary doing what I love, as opposed to what I actually do on a day-to-day basis.

Jim, however, is a professional reviewer and magazine editor. If he doesn't get paid, he can't pay his bills. That's kind of a big deal.

He may very well love what he does, and getting paid for it is the icing on the cake - but don't make the argument that if someone's doing it "for the money", they don't CARE about what they do. That's what I'm objecting to. You can do something for money and take a lot of pride in doing it well. Most people do.

"By putting it this way, you're essentially saying that The Escapist is in it just for the advertising dollars, not for the content."

That's the false dichotomy right there. They can be in it "for the advertising dollars" and still produce content that they're proud of and that represents them in a way that shows their integrity.

And while we're on the subject...

"Most directors direct movies because they love the craft of making movies, not because they want to be rich."

I certainly agree with the idea that most directors love movies. (Although I do wonder about some of them. Brett Ratner?) They're getting paid to do something they love - that's fantastic! But they still need to be paid for it! Do you honestly think James Cameron would've directed "Titanic" if he hadn't believed it would make any money?

 

[DMShade]

I was taught shortly out of High School about a simple concept which follows me everywhere I go.

"Price is not just money. Price is what you are willing to give up to get what you want." Convenience store prices are higher because that's how they choose to counter giving you the ability to get what you want at unusual hours and/or without traveling far. Or for another example, people who will drive out of their way to go to the cheaper gas stations in their area.

It applies almost anywhere money is involved, visible or not, as well as in some places elsewhere.

You get to watch your video 'free' by sparing an advertisement some of your time and consideration.

As adblock makes the entire transaction free for the user, the other side of the table is forced to take other measures to extract their 'price' such as embedded advertisements in the video or ads that automatically blast their audio in your ear.

The Phrase above has helped me sit back and look at almost every transaction daily life sets out and evaluate it, decide the "costs" and whether I'm willing to pay them. More often than not it softens me to the deal set before me because no product or service should be completely free, and everyone should get something for their efforts.

 

[Rastrelly]

Disabled. But it will get back on after the next minorities/gay/offence/racism etc. episode.

 

[mike1921]

He's being a bit of a hypocrite on this one. If he really does hate the advertisers as much as he says, but wants to get paid for his work, put it behind a pay-wall. Yeah, that'd probably reduce the revenue he receives (I'm certainly willing to ignore an advertisement on the side for free content), but then there'd be no concerns that he's asking anybody to be inconvenienced by the advertisers.

I don't mind him saying those who block how he makes money have no moral ground to stand on when they criticize how he does his show, but when he says that *he* doesn't like how he makes money when there are other options available, and then criticizing folks who have that exact same distaste of advertisers.. that's hypocritcal.

Man up and own it, Jim. You like advertisers. You like them because they pay you more. If you didn't, you'd have a pay wall and suck it up.

REALLY? You don't need to like a company to work with them. There is a paywall system if you don't want to see ads and it's not enough to run the escapist. The system we have maximizes both the number of people who see his content and the money paid for it , but he's a hypocrite for saying that the trade off is worse than it has to be? he's a hypocrite for saying if advertisers didn't condition us to adblock with annoying fucking ads that play sound, expand when you mouseover, and play videos without being prompted, things would be better for all involved?