Jimquisition: The Adblock Episode

[Zook024]

I have no problem turning it off when I am viewing a column or series that I follow (such as The Jimquision) but often times, like you said Jim, sites like IGN have these massive, intrusive, elaborate banners and overlays that seemingly don't want me to even view their content. In addition it's a real deal breaker when 30 sec commercials air before a 1 min video or even better yet, when the commercial loads up and plays instantly but the video I want to view takes 5 minutes to load...and it's only a minute itself. This image sums it up nicely, http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/google-servers-for-ads-for-videos.jpg

 

[SecondPrize]

I first heard of and found adblock shortly after learning about banner ads capable of infecting one with malware simply by browsing to the page on which the ad is located. The problem is I don't know this shit at all and thus can't make an informed decision about whether any website, even in the less dodgy bits of the internet, can be counted on to stifle this shit so I err on the side of caution. Also, I don't always agree with Jim but even when I think he's off his rocker I at least get some enjoyment from having something to be pissed off about and write angry rants on the forums for a while. Can't those who hate him and want him to suffer financially see that he's still providing them a valuable service?

 

[Mastemat]

It's EXACTLY what you said, Jim.
I use Adblock because ads have gotten.... just offensively annoying...
Having been on the internet since it's beginning... (compuserve bitches!)
I must disagree....

While it currently might be a vicious cycle...
It didn't start as that.
Ads were annoying and intrusive in the beginning of the internet as soon as people figured out how to make them... those stupid popups... we've had that name almost as long as we've had the internet.

Adblock was born as a response to the BS of advertisers.... if they hadn't been so obnoxious for years... why would I feel the need/want to make them go away?
(also, I am offended at all these tits and vagoos shoved in my face from all the adds... "ooo this person likes video games, clearly it must be a heterosexual male who loves women as big titted, vagoo spread objects... probably is white too!"
......
I'm a gay man, I don't want to see that shit... and it CERTAINLY doesn't make me want to click anything...
There's nothing grosser than vaginas... I don't trust ANYTHING that bleeds for a week and doesn't die... just disgusting.)

So I adblock because I don't want to see that shit.
But since you asked so nicely... and didn't play the victim card... you could have easily just whined about it... but you actually took the time to legitimately examine the issue at hand.
And I respect that.
It's why I watch your show and have always enjoyed it since it's inception.
So I will tentatively whitelist you.
So long as your ads don't play stupid noise and/or have basically nude women... Cause I ain't got time for that shit.

EDIT: AAAAAAND as soon as I unblocked the adds.... a lovely embedded musical add started up mixing with your video producing a cacophonous racket that the word "noise" fails to even encompass.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I don't use Adblock, nor do I plan to, nor do I advocate its use, but by god, The Escapist hasn't been making it easy for me the past few months. Video ads, which play on the sides and bottom of the page, starting themselves, with SOUND, which I then have to close everytime I open a new page, have occasionally made browsing the site a downright pain in the ass.

This is my thought as well. I never intend to use any sort of adblocking. I do, however, place a reasonable weight on simply feeling respected by the content creators who's works I happily partake of. I want to support those who make content I enjoy, and I'm perfectly happy to support them via ads. If, however, I feel that no attempt is being made to respect me by at least choosing an ad service that doesn't intentionally mess up my browsing experience then I will stop partaking of that content.

 

[Weaver]

The fact that the team doesn't know these are present, yet have been on this site for at least half a year is somewhat troubling.

May I humbly suggest the Escapist staff try browsing the site as a regular user for a day to see what the experience is like?

snip

The problem is the Staff usually don't have time to do that, especially during their working hours. There's lots of stuff to do that doesn't involve going on the site itself. I can't speak personally about their actual schedule but I'd make a guess that they only really browse the forums when posting videos and checking for feedback. That's why they ask Moderators and users to report these issues, because chances are we'll see them way before they get the chance.

I understand they're busy, I'm the lead developer at my company so I understand what it can be like. That said, only they can ensure the user experience is what they intended. We don't know if those ads are or aren't a mistake, so why would we report them? Not all problems are as obvious as a 404 and those are the ones that require UX validation. It's usually a matter of process, not a task assigned to an individual.

 

[Lord Doomhammer]

I'm gonna go into rant mode here so bear with me.

Does anyone remember the guys over at Rooster Teeth? I barely do,

You realize they are in the top 15 most subscribed on YouTube and are huge right?

And as I mentioned, I watched their stuff like 10 years ago, but stopped. I'm not the kind of person who forgives or gives second chances. They ruined the experience for me, and I have not and will not go back to them for it. So forgive me for not knowing what they're up to these days.

I'm gonna go into rant mode here so bear with me.

But at the end of the day, nothing that I've found on the internet, that is ad supported, is vital or irreplaceable. And considering the harm they can do; and have done, the 'content providers' are going to need to do a major rethink before I or anyone who runs adblock is going to think twice about it.

To me, this has always been something I could never understand. There is no Ministry of Taste, nor should there be. Whether content is valid or invalid in one's opinion doesn't mean it's universally that way across the board. Whereas I might enjoy a certain video or concept, someone else may not. And that's okay. No one's taste should be the sole gateway of whether or not something is worth existence.

Although I have to question your concept of "vital" or "irreplaceable." If you don't think something has enough purpose to exist, why do you consume it while actively circumventing its payment. I would imagine you don't steal every movie you watch, book you read, or steal every meal you eat. In the same vein, why is it justified that you can have every bit of advertisement-supported content without needing to suffer the advertisements? If it's not vital, and you don't want it to continue, simply stop consuming. And if you like how it tastes, and enjoy the content, why not suffer through some ads or an annual PubClub subscription fee to pay for it?

By your analogy, all you really need is MREs and water to survive, so chefs who make gourmet food should all be provided raw ingredients, then not paid after they've prepared them. Nothing of physical value was lost (except the years of talent that cultivated the result), so it's all fair game, right?

So yeah, it may suck to have ads, but you should reconsider their use. Everyone has different opinions, but at the very least, consider why this helps people. All it costs you is thirty seconds. It costs these creators, by extension, their livelihoods.

Firstly, MREs can not be substituted for food, at least not on a long term basis. The damage to your colon would be catastrophic.

Secondly, what I was driving at is that if they suddenly started using negative reinforcement to make me watch their ads or if the blocked me from their website for not using ads or if like above with Rooster Teeth, the website became unusable due to the ads. Then I would have no problem doing something else for 5 - 10 minutes a day then watching their video. I could just as easily be playing TF2, or painting my 40k figs or driving nails into my head. It is to say, there exists an alternative.

And this is the whole thing about ads, they exist as negative reinforcement for the content. And to a point they outweigh the positives of the content. Especially when the site in question starts using ads that host malicious software like megaupload and other such sites did. Ads are not a solution to a problem, they are at best a short term solution to make things work.

As for this 'premium' stuff with the pub club or whatever they're calling it. I've done things like that on some sites. DakkaDakka.com for instance, I'm one of their DKMs or what ever they call it. I paid their fee and got the extra crap. But I'm still undecided about doing that for the escapist. On the one hand, I would be supporting things I like, such as critical miss and jim. On the other hand I would be supporting the things I don't like, such as movie bob and these forums, which are renound throughout the internet for being some of the most stuck up their own ass of all time (I know, people in glass houses). But the point I'm driving at is why should I support something I don't support?

 

[V8 Ninja]

Having actually written for a website, I understand the importance of ads. They generate revenue and allow sites to stay up while also allowing the site owners to continue pushing out content that, for the end-user, is entirely free. Because of that, I tend to whitelist sites which I respect/trust. However, there are three big reasons why I still use adblocking software for the majority of the sites on the internet, with one being a bit selfish and the other two being quite reasonable (at least in my eyes);

1. I use certain sites WAY too much, to the point where I would end up spending 40% of my time starring at ads if I whitelisted them. (The biggest offender of this is Youtube.)

2. I have no idea if scrolling over a specific ad will result in nothing happening or several pop-ups coming out at me. It's easier to me simply remove the ads then try to play a game of computer mouse Frogger.

3. Some ad-heavy sites can, literally crash my browser if I don't have adblocking turned on.

More often than not, The Escapist has fallen victim to the third point. During several times when I decided to whitelist The Escapist and just deal with the ads, my browser ended up crashing because there was simply too much stuff going on in a small handful of tabs. Having just turned off adblock before writing this comment, it seems that The Escapist is not being stuffed with ads. If that trends continues, I'm very willing to keep adblocking turned off for this site. I just don't hope it changes back to very ad-heavy pages.

 

[AdagioBoognish]

I find it strange that between piracy and adblocking, Jim appears to be more soft on the one that affects him. Either both are theft, or neither.

For the record, I prefer the "neither" answer, and a similar stance would have been more welcome for that episode, admitting that not giving out "hypohetical future profits", is not the same thing as stealing. The important thing is that our content producers make a living, but beyond that, it's a matter of helpfulness and courtesy, versus hanging on for the ride as an extra freeloader but without bringing much extra burden either.

This was pretty much his stance in the video though. Jim said he didn't consider adblocking a video stealing and I consider what you said, "admitting that not giving out "hypohetical future profits", is not the same thing as stealing. The important thing is that our content producers make a living, but beyond that, it's a matter of helpfulness and courtesy, versus hanging on for the ride as an extra freeloader but without bringing much extra burden either" to be a perfect summery of what Jim was saying in the adblock video.

Whitelisted the site, couldn't bare with the ads though..

So i guess i'm part of the "Publisher's Club" now, just for you, Jimmy Boy!

Lol, just got mine too.

 

[sky14kemea]

I understand they're busy, I'm the lead developer at my company so I understand what it can be like. That said, only they can ensure the user experience is what they intended. We don't know if those ads are or aren't a mistake, so why would we report them? Not all problems are as obvious as a 404 and those are the ones that require UX validation. It's usually a matter of process, not a task assigned to an individual.

That's fair. I actually know next to nothing about the tech on the site, so I don't fully understand that last bit...

All I know is people have reported those kind of ads before, just 'cause it annoys them, and the Techies are willing to look at it.

 

[TheMadDoctorsCat]

I don't adblock "The Escapist". I've seen all the ads, including that one with the bear.

I do, however, admit that I've never clicked on a single ad. Not once. Sorry.

One of said ads (it was one of these dating site ads) managed to trigger a "object blocked due to malicious content" warning from BitDefender. I can't say how accurate this was, but BitDefender doesn't give me hundreds of false-positives like this. That ad was shown on "The Escapist".

There's a general perception that all internet advertising is scamming ("You're the one-millionth visitor to this website! Click here to claim your prize!") that's generally aimed at people too young or inexperienced with the 'net to know any better. Some of them aimed at children (the Spongebob-themed one "shoot the jellyfish to claim a prize" comes to mind) strike me as particularly repulsive. I'm not sure that ALL advertising is like this, but nowadays I wouldn't dare to click even on the ads that name legitimate companies. Yeah, it might SAY it's from a reputable banking website, but so did those e-mails I used to get, before content filtering became a "thing", that wanted my online banking username and password for a "security update".

Jim, I would never want to stop you from being paid for your content. I've received hours of entertainment from it, and with the exception of one video of yours that I particularly disagreed with (the idea that people shouldn't object to you liking stuff that they don't - I think this is a fair point for someone posting on a forum, but not for a professional games critic who's paid to give a fair and unbiased opinion) I've never tried to dictate to you what you should or shouldn't publish. Quite the opposite in fact - you've got popular on the basis of the content that you produce by your own standards, so what sense would it make for you to suddenly give up doing this and start pandering to a vocal subsection of your audience (who might be in the minority anyway)?

Having said that, I think the advertising "revenue stream" is not necessarily as permanent as it may seem right now. It'll only work as long as the advertisers can convince the product sellers that the ads are shifting stock, which may be the case, but it's difficult to see who's buying on the basis of internet ads alone. I wish I had an alternative for you... I just don't. I'm not a "pub club" member (sorry) so I can't say "the subscription model is best".

I just don't want you guys to get wedded to a revenue stream that may turn out to be less-than-reliable, and then turn into the modern equivalent of the horse company who tried to ban the model-T, or the record companies who said that MTV would ruin the recording industry. (Even if it turns out that last group may have had a point there.)

 

[azriel2422]

I do not use adblock and haven't in the past, but the content by and large on this site lasts a little over 5 minutes. a 30 sec ad (at most where I am) for a 6 minute video isn't that big of a deal, especially considering how bad it is on other sites. Plus, most of the ads I've seen are at least in the "ballpark" of something I might be interested in, so I can give that a pass. Hell, most of the advertisements are for the Escapist shows themselves.

All I am saying is the Escapist does a pretty good job of keeping adverts to a minimum while delivering consistently entertaining content. I don't know what the alternative will end up being, but I hope sites like this one don't suffer because of the need for advertisement money. I guess I can just become a pub club member

 

[Atmos Duality]

Advertising as is a nasty see-saw. Too many ads drive viewers away, too few drive content away.

For the "consumer", it trades a direct monetary cost for an opportunity cost, which is generally much lower risk.
It's such an incredibly effective model, that it's everywhere, and that's the real problem.

I literally cannot leave my neighborhood without being advertised to at least once.
I cannot drive any more than a block without having some advertisement blared to me.
I cannot set foot in any public place without sharing proximity with some sort of commercial.

And I have no control over that at all. But I do have more control over that online.
Which is a blessing and a curse, because ad-revenue pays for bloody EVERYTHING online.

It's awfully damn tempting to just block known noise and focus on the product, but I whitelist my regular sites, and just opt to not visit them when they're pissing me off (I've nearly left the Escapist for good a few times).

It's an "entitled" attitude to take, but like Jim, I cannot judge anyone too harshly for it; because we are practically under siege by advertisements for a large part of our waking hours in real life, and everywhere online.

 

[rofltehcat]

I think the whole topic revolves around a lack of control over what ads are distributed. Now, I don't think that Escapist staff can possibly go through all the possible ads and blacklist some (partly because different browsing habits and especially countries receive different ads) but I think somewhere in the chain between the people producing shitty ads and between the end users there needs to be control put in.

What Jim said in the episode is true: Most people use adblock because of annoying and intrusive ads.
However, the Escapist is part of that problem in my opinion. In the end it isn't the advertisers damaged by bad ad practices but the sites on which ads are (not) displayed because they are the ones not getting any money. Therefore, maybe switching to other ad distribution services might theoretically be an option but I am told (e.g. on the blog of Shamus Young when he considered switching, though he'd probably get worse deals than the Escapist) that the differences are either too small or that the money is just too little.
So they are really stuck between a rock and a hard place. They certainly don't have the pull needed to get reliable (and well-paying) ad partners and some of the ads really diminish the good content they produce.


As an experiment, I turned off adblock and loaded several pages of the Escapist in different tabs. The ads I received weren't in front of the video but either on the right side or down at the very bottom of the site. Results:

Unacceptable: The first two ads I received were of an auto-playing video posing as "celebrity news" that started playing on a much louder volume than the actual video (and at the same time, too!).

Questionable: Another ad was a "view movies for free" auto-playing video ad (thankfully silent; my Web-of-Trust addon marked the site behind it as deeply orange, which even some porn sites don't get).

Bearable: A third ad is comprised of a auto-starting but silent video ad comprised of several smaller but harmless ad videos (e.g. osteo porosis medicine (???), car tires and other stuff). This one is actually bearable but I am on an unlimited (total traffic, not bandwidth) connection and I'd hate something like that to guzzle up a limited data plan (that I had for some time in the past) while I leave a tab open or write a post just because it doesn't stop loading more video ads.

Ok: Another ad was just a 1:34 (silent) video for "flowplayer". While the ad was unobtrusive and overall ok, it looked a little long for my taste, but meh, whatever.


I'll leave Adblock inactive on the Escapist for a little while longer. However, I'll turn it back on when I'm annoyed by ads again

 

[NewClassic_v1legacy]

You just convinced me to whitelist The Escapist, Jim! I had no idea so much of your revenue came from the ads themselves.

Please also consider doing this for other websites you visit. Every little bit helps, for all content creators.

Why don't you remove all ads from every page (ie, forums, videos, articles, etc) and move them all to a dedicated 'support us' page? ... Surely something like that would be far less intrusive and obnoxious than bloody ads spewed everywhere!

Unfortunately, this probably wouldn't really be all that workable. People who visit the sites to watch one or two rogue videos (which is a large percentage of users, especially since direct-to-video links from sites like reddit and slashdot) wouldn't be supporting the site at all. The dedicated Support Us page would likely be the one for PubClub [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/subscription/details].

Sorry, but relying on ad based revenue leaves no one to blame but yourselves. Everyone who runs a website thinks they are mining gold and showering it on the masses, that somehow the mere act of creating content entitles you to a revenue stream. Sorry, but no. Imagine going to a rock show, and having the band led in, not by an opener, but rather by a 30 second ad for beer or soda. Imagine the intermission coming with more marketing nonsense. Do you think the consumer would be happy? Nope, but then again, they are paying for the show. So they have an expectation that their money is being spent on entertainment, not ads.

Make quality content and you will find your audience. Sorry but you don't have the right to inundate me with ads, just because you think your content has value. I determine if it has value to me, not you. Make the Escapist subscription based and work based on your true audience. Why is that off the table? Business models based on ads are not sustainable, and they never will be. You have to sell your product, not ad space.

You sell merchandise, you can create premium content, blaming the user because you want to do it the easy way isn't right. We don't OWE you anything for putting up a website. You chose to create this site, to contribute content, if you want to profit from it, you have to do better than assume your content is worth my time in ads, because in most instances it isn't.

I like this site. If it were subscription based, I MIGHT join, but ultimately, you are asking us to pay for a bunch of op ed pieces and a terribly moderated forum. How much is that really worth?

Sorry, I am not trying to be belligerent, but blaming the customer is never the answer. Even when they are wrong.

In this case, I would have to disagree. That already happens. People who go to concerts often walk into stadiums lined with advertisements. Every concession stand proudly has Coke emblems on their drink fountains and Budweiser taps on the countertops. The drive to the concert hall is teeming with billboards and business names. Somewhere, everywhere, there's an advertisement. Be it someone's branded shirt to a flyer drifting on the floor on the way in. However some may feel, advertisements are everywhere in this society.

That said, "blaming the user" isn't the route this is taking. It's saying to consider whitelisting or not using adblocker so the ads don't get more abrasive. And if you do cut off this man's paycheck, perhaps he shouldn't listen to you as you're not his paying audience. Seems like a pretty reasonable response to me.

Also, there is a subscription system in place, called the Publisher's Club. Find it's benefits here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/subscription/details].

 

[cerebus23]

Spot on jim thank god for you, and thank god for pointing out out that most of us start using that stuff because advertisers/markerters are intrusive asses.

 

[glitch388]

I just wanted to post to let you know that I was moved by your episode, and have officially decided to whitelist websites including, but not limited to, this one, Giant Bomb, and Destructoid.

 

[jehk]

I've been infected with viruses from ad sites. I work from home. You're asking me to risk my livelihood for yours. Luckily I've been able to afford a tablet. I watch stuff from it without adblock. If I didn't have the tablet or adblock I just wouldn't watch your show. Would that be okay with you? What would you rather have?

I dunno. Just giving you my perspective.

 

[Infernal Lawyer]

I don't use Adblock at all, because I don't think the ads are bad for the most part. I tend to wonder if this is because I live in New Zealand and they have different laws and/or attitudes regarding invasive adds.

However, there are times, including on the Escapist Magazine, when I wonder if the people running it pay any attention to what's being run on it. For example, the standard "there's a virus on your computer, click to scan" or "you're the one millionth person to browse here, click to claim your prize. I mean, really? Everyone knows those are crappy scams designed to pull in gullible idiots. Crap like that makes me reconsider my stance, because if a website is willing to put that kind of blatant "click here to download your malware" bullshit on it's pages, it doesn't deserve a single cent from me and can fuck right off.

 

[The_Darkness]

*Waves the Publisher's Club flag*

Okay, so it does cost me a little bit, but honestly? Just over £10? A year? To watch all the content of The Escapist, in HD, without Ads?
I consider that a bargain.

 

[Evil Smurf]

I obviously have a pub club subscription, I suggest other people who hate adverts do the same. It's only $20USD a year and you get a whole bunch of benefits.