Jimquisition: The Adblock Episode

[Marter]

Dude. The video was for Jim talking about people USING IT.

I don't know if you think I was being dishonest in saying people were talking about it as if the mere mention gets them banned, but I figured it was kind of a given that I meant people talking about USING IT. Since the video was about using it on the Jimquisition and other content on the escapist. That's why I said talking about the video or discussing what it talks about it is bait. The video was about using adblock on the Jimquisition and Escapist cause Jim says he gets why we would. People talk about why they did and why they are stopping and why they are resuming and they get banned. That is why I consider it bait.

I guess you're welcome to think that. I don't believe anyone needed to say "I adblock The Escapist" in order to discuss the software. That's what is getting people warnings. Admissions of use. Not even "I can see why people would use it because X, Y, Z." Admission. And I find it hard to believe Jim would create something just so people would get warned.

 

[PlayerDos]

Dude. The video was for Jim talking about people USING IT.

I don't know if you think I was being dishonest in saying people were talking about it as if the mere mention gets them banned, but I figured it was kind of a given that I meant people talking about USING IT. Since the video was about using it on the Jimquisition and other content on the escapist. That's why I said talking about the video or discussing what it talks about it is bait. The video was about using adblock on the Jimquisition and Escapist cause Jim says he gets why we would. People talk about why they did and why they are stopping and why they are resuming and they get banned. That is why I consider it bait.

I guess you're welcome to think that. I don't believe anyone needed to say "I adblock The Escapist" in order to discuss the software. That's what is getting people warnings. Admissions of use. Not even "I can see why people would use it because X, Y, Z." Admission. And I find it hard to believe Jim would create something just so people would get warned.

I'm saying it's bait to leave it open, not that Jim is trying to bait people into getting banned.

People are saying they adblocked the escapist because of the issues they had with it which is getting them warned. Jim was saying that people might have those issues.

 

[Marter]

I'm saying it's bait to leave it open, not that Jim is trying to bait people into getting banned.

Ah. Okay.
People are saying they adblocked the escapist because of the issues they had with it which is getting them warned. Jim was saying that people might have those issues.
I can understand the point. We've laid out in some of the earlier pages why we still had to warn people blatantly admitting to it. That's not something in which the moderators really had a choice, and it's still possible to discuss adblockers without it, which a far greater number of people have done.

 

[KisaiTenshi]

I'm saying it's bait to leave it open, not that Jim is trying to bait people into getting banned.

The thread itself was not bait for people to confess to blocking the ads, and as per the moderator, I didn't see any promise made that there would be exemptions, only that they weren't warning for merely mentioning it. That's why I said , everyone who came here, knew exactly what they were getting into.

Likewise a user who picked a fight, and then admitting to blocking ads, didn't get warned either. This thread easily revealed who was blocks ads by default even if they didn't admit outright about it. If the moderators wanted to be a dick about things they could just as easily warned everyone who said "but I whitelist the escapist" and those who subscribe to the pub club but block ads elsewhere too. But IMO this is overreach. It was probably overkill to warn people who would then be banned.

 

[Snotnarok]

Whitelisting things is difficult, you do that for a site, turn around and the next day you get a virus warning from the site. I had that with creative uncut, I love the site, white listed it, 3 days later virus blocked by my PC.
I even chatted with the owner about it and nothing to be done, he was cool about it and understood.

It's hard to be open and try and get things going to help the creators, but when it's biting you back and threatening the well being of your PC, or in my case my workstation...it's hard to risk that. I create content as well, I don't use ads ...but it's totally understandable to use them.

I...just...don't....want to risk having damage to MY content and have to worry about getting crap on my PC that'll take hours to fix or lose because of serious infection.

It's a shitty balancing board of wanting to stand up and help, but you can't without risk of you taking a spill for the sake of it.

 

[Kinitawowi]

Maybe it's a UK thing - I'm very aware that there's some regionalising going on with this - but except for that video that keeps showing two minutes from the first episode of Skins, very few adverts here have ever reduced me to needing to consider ad blocking.

That goes everywhere. And I'm a dinosaur; I still run IE, I use Microsoft Security Essentials and Malware Bytes for protection, and the only adblocker I use is IE's built in pop-up blocker, which barely works half the time anyway.

But.

I work in tech. I had one day in my shop where one virus, permeating around ads on Facebook, came in to the store on sixteen different computers. Now yeah, we made a small fortune once I'd spent fifteen minutes working out how to clean it up and fix its damage (this is why I still use MSE - because if I get a virus, I've got the Knowhow to deal with it myself), but the point remains; ad impressions, while always a vital source of revenue to many websites of all stripes (I remember having to click on adverts to get passwords for FTP servers to download dubiously legitimate music - this was before Napster), also sometimes represent significant risk to an end user.

The other big problem is personal identity and security. It's no secret that all too many ad services read locally hosted cookies to track your recent page views and offer pertinent advertising, and a lot of people really aren't comfortable with that - the notion that The Man is tracking you and knows what you are doing. We're moving into an age where data on personal habits is the most valuable data a company can get, which is where Facebook and Google make all their bank.

TLDR; I don't use adblockers and I don't think I ever would, but I can see why some people feel driven to consider them. In other news, the Pope is also a Catholic.

 

[ShinyCharizard]

This wouldn't be a fucking problem if the advertisements were kept reasonable. When they were just banners at the top or the side of the page most people wouldn't have cared, I know I didn't.

But since then they have become fucking ridiculous. Autoplaying videos that can't be muted, flashing banners that take up half the screen, banners that expand massively should you happen to accidentally scroll over them, which are then obnoxiously difficult to close and ads taking place before videos which then proceed to crash the actual video, or go for longer than the video itself.

If you expect people not to take measures to prevent these sort of advertisements, then you are a fucking idiot. Have some decency and prevent such frustrating and intrusive ads from having a place on your website.

 

[ERaptor]

This wouldn't be a fucking problem if the advertisements were kept reasonable. When they were just banners at the top or the side of the page most people wouldn't have cared, I know I didn't.

But since then they have become fucking ridiculous. Autoplaying videos that can't be muted, flashing banners that take up half the screen, banners that expand massively should you happen to accidentally scroll over them, which are then obnoxiously difficult to close and ads taking place before videos which then proceed to crash the actual video, or go for longer than the video itself.

If you expect people not to take measures to prevent these sort of advertisements, then you are a fucking idiot. Have some decency and prevent such frustrating and intrusive ads from having a place on your website.

Pretty much this. I wont get into Detail from risk of getting hammered by Mods, but I wouldnt mind reasonable ads. Fact of the matter is, they arent reasonable in most cases. The Malware/Spyware-issue is a constant one that I can observe on a regular basis. OFC, they're most common on Porn or Warez-sites (Which isnt surprising), but i've surfed past "regular" sites before and picked up some rather fancy stuff. And even if it isnt Malware-ridden, a lot of ads are ridicolously intrusive, loud or obnoxious. I'd actually ratehr blame the marketing-industry than the content-creators or even the site. Luckily I didnt have to deal with those bloodsuckers a lot, but its one of THE worsts cesspools when it comes to hosting stuff on the Web.

In summary, I usually consider subscription-models or Fanarticles like shirts as a form of support, but not ads. And frankly, if sites want to outright block people with adblock. Please, go ahead. I'm actually curious to see how that would work out and how long it would take to find a new way around ads after that. It would be amusing either way.

 

[Spakka]

Well... The Escapist is the only website I know that has extremely loud autoplay ads that start after the video I'm watching starts, and if you press the pause/mute etc. button on them, they don't stop but take you to whatever crap they are trying to peddle.

I've considered getting an adblock purely for the escapist just because of this. I often have to reload pages 5-6 times before I can actually use the content because of this obtrusive rubbish spewing out its gunk at me. And frankly it's just insulting that the pause/mute buttons are just scams to get you to try to shut the damn things off!


/Rantover.

 

[Jenvas1306]

Now I am glad that currently Im seeing just some advertising for an emergency call system for the elderly that consists just of still images, but I cant help but wonder if I am or anyone on the escapist really is the target audience for such a thing.
A quick reload of this page results in similary silent advertising but my firefox tells me it just stopped a popup from being opened...without me clicking anything.

going through this thread I find that with enough dark humor this affair is kinda funny...
Jim makes a video about asking his audience not to adblock so he ma be paid and have such precious things as food. now thats a reasonable requst but in reality I see lots of people not being able to keep this site white-listed as their adds are way too intrusive.
the funny part that is actually the sad part is how many of those posters have atleast gotten a warning because they admitted to using adblock...

Friends of mine who also frequent the escapist, but from the USA have told me how annoying the adds get and I understand everyone who doesnt want to be bothered by them.

So in conclusion, Jims episode about adblock only made people feel bad about having to adblock this site after they tried, but a bad choice of adds made it impossible to enjoy and support the site.
Together with all the warnings that have been sprayed over this thread this whole affair has cost Jim quite a chunk of my respect.

 

[Durgiun]

Oh, fine, since you asked so nicely. Unlike Linkara, that git.

 

[OneCatch]

Question for the mods:

Out of interest, is it just admitting the use of specifically described adblockers that is banned, or would, say, admitting to using services which block cookies or trackers in order to protect online privacy also count?
Because although such a user might not be using a service intending to block adverts, such add-ons do often have the unintended side effect of also interfering with the serving of ads.

On the other hand, would a person who deliberately used, say, a really old browser in order to avoid ads be wrathed? Or someone who's AV blocks ads from certain providers?
What about tor?

I should point out that none of these possibilities describe myself.
But in spite of agreeing with the moderation here 99% of the time I think it's only fair that users be given explicit guidance as to what is permitted, especially when site content encourages such discussion.


Edit; removed snarky last line

 

[Jenvas1306]

Im not a mod but I feel I need to make this clear:

[HEADING=3]This thread still falls under the normal rules for the escapist forums[/HEADING]
[HEADING=2]Do not proclaim that you use adblock![/HEADING]​

 

[IceForce]

Im not a mod but I feel I need to make this clear:

[HEADING=3]This thread still falls under the normal rules for the escapist forums[/HEADING]
[HEADING=2]Do not proclaim that you use adblock![/HEADING]​

Then, the question has to be raised: Why does this thread even exist at all?

It's like having a video or discussion about the consumption of Coca-Cola, but at the same time warning/banning anyone who admits to drinking it.

 

[lacktheknack]

Im not a mod but I feel I need to make this clear:

[HEADING=3]This thread still falls under the normal rules for the escapist forums[/HEADING]
[HEADING=2]Do not proclaim that you use adblock![/HEADING]​

Then, the question has to be raised: Why does this thread even exist at all?

It's like having a video or discussion about the consumption of Coca-Cola, but at the same time warning/banning anyone who admits to drinking it.

WHY THIS THREAD EXISTS: A self-proclaimed troll on the last video made a bunch of antagonistic and nonsensical claims to make this video happen, and Jim went for it.

And really, if someone made a thread about illegal pornography and its effects, would you be upset if people who admitted to acquiring said illegal porn were banned? Obviously, Adblock and illegal porn are not analogous, but neither is Coca-Cola and Adblock.

 

[Jenvas1306]

Im not a mod but I feel I need to make this clear:

[HEADING=3]This thread still falls under the normal rules for the escapist forums[/HEADING]
[HEADING=2]Do not proclaim that you use adblock![/HEADING]​

Then, the question has to be raised: Why does this thread even exist at all?

It's like having a video or discussion about the consumption of Coca-Cola, but at the same time warning/banning anyone who admits to drinking it.

taking it from the OPs post, quoting what a mod said about this:

Discussion of adblockers on this comment thread need to contribute to the discussion of or the purpose of adblockers. Keep in mind, saying anything about the use of adblockers or the advocacy of that use without contribution to the discussion will involve health meter ramifications.

For the sake of expediency, keep in mind that everyone's definition of what is and isn't tolerable will be different. We implore you that if you feel any wrath in this thread is undeserved, use the Contact Form [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/contact/subject/forums] to appeal. Fair warning, any discussion of adblocking is treading dangerous waters. -Mod

the point is to discuss the implications, reasons and consequences of blocking adds.
Just stating that you use a utility like adblock is against the tos you agreed to to post on these forums.

Jim should have made it clear in the beginning of this thread that it is no exception to those rules.

 

[Drejer43]

I didnt adblock for a very longtime, not until this one single ad popped up on most sites even the escapist. This ad played the most annoying trumpets theme ever, 3 times as a loud as youtube video, and it was just a normal looking banner ad i didnt click or hover over anything. Then i had to shift through my 20 tabs looking for where it is, I had enough in he end. But eh im willing to disable adblock on the escapeist again to see if it is gone(if it is not though...)

 

[XDSkyFreak]

Well ... I never used add-block. Unistalled it a long time ago. And that's because I live in a country that just isn't on the advertsing radar that much. So i get very few adds, and those I get don't end up bothering me that much because they usualy are a small commercial or something that gives me the option of closing it after 5 or 10 seconds. So I'm cool with that. I keep hearing about these intrusive adds everywhere, but i never ran into them. I guess it pays to be under the radar of the retarded, bloated, useless hype and marketing machine that is eating away at modern society That and a good antivirus to stop pop-ups and a lovely tool to prevent marketing bots from tracking my web surfing (in case you didn't know every site on the internet right now has some form of data-mining code running through it that stores your ip and keeps tabs on what you watch, what sites you browse and then sells this info to marketing companies. Why this very page of the Escapist has data-mining code from facebook, adnexus,google analytics, comscore beacon, quantcast and viglink. And that, at least where I live, is violating my privacy and is considered a crime that can warrant jail time)

As for the whole addblock debate: Really the problem here is one of tolerance. A very close friend of mine is actualy responsible for making adds and comercials, so I had a chat with him on the issue. The problem is that advertising companies quite frankly don't give a rats ass for the consumer. Adds are today actualy designed to use any and all means to grab attention, force you to notice them and even include techniques used to influence said consumers to make certain decisions. And everything is done with the subtelty of a sledgehammer to the face.
Site owners and admins need revenue from adds to keep their sites up. It is a fundamental fact of life. That beeing said, cosidering marketing companies actualy need to BUY the space for adds on your site, might I suggest that admins stop tolerating every single bullshit add that they get asked to post? For example: you get asked to place on your site an add that, when a certain page is accesed, begins playing a loud fanfare and has a mute button drawn on, but actualy clicking it opens a pop-up window with even more anoying music and the product it's advertising. How would you feel admins if something so stupid happened when youm were just trying to watch a god damned 3 minute clip of funny cats? How about you tell that add company to fuck off because that is not consumer friendly and will actualy hurt your site's popularity and tell them to come up with more apropiate adds? Another smart thing might be having a policy on what adds are allowed. To give an example: spoonyexperiment.com . Every single add on that site is either a silent banner about something related to the sites content (games, movies, webcomics, other sites of the same type), a simple donations link, or a comercial before the video that never goes over 30 seconds (and when it does it has a close button after 10-15 seconds that is actualy a close button) and again is usualy related to the subject matter.
So really this is a vicious circle: Marketing companies have a too high tolerance for bullshit, admins have either a too high tolerance for same bullshit (or don't care as long as they are getting payed) and the consumers have a verry low tolerance for that crap. Consumer blocks adds, marketing firm sees reduced income from it's adds and ges full retard in making even more intrusive and idiotic adds, site admins whine about people blocking adds (or go full on campaign of terror on them), consumer blocks new more retarded adds, rinse and repeat. Marketing firms will only change if they loose clients and that will happen when site admins start thinking not just about revenue but about the ease of acces of their sites to the consumers.
Just my 2 cents on the matter. And I know I just hit a nerv and will probably get some form of punishment from the admins (happened before when I pointed out site admins carry about half the blame for the whole problem). I just hope enough rational people will read this.

PS: As long as you are just a content creator and not also a site admin, then I have absolutly nothing against you and no blame should go to you for what adds are played over your content. So I got nothing against Jim here, maybe just the fact that this episodes feels more like a "please don't addblock me" he was told to make by a higher up (and a correct "fuck you" to shits who go "I use addblock because you suck"), and less of a discusion of addblocking in general and why it exists in the first place.

 

[mjc0961]

Pretty much hit the nail on the head of why I use adblock at the places where I use it. Anything that tries to take over my browser gets blocked. Banner ads are fine. Ads like YouTube has are fine. But when you start popping things up when I'm trying to navigate a site or enjoy its content and having a tiny fucking close button that I can barely hit with my mouse cursor... When you start auto-playing music and video that I didn't ask for in a little box somewhere on the page I have to hunt for so I can press pause... And when of course you do either of those things and pressing close/pause automatically takes me to the shit you're advertising when all I wanted was the ad to go away... That's when I blacklist the entire domain, even if I use the site regularly. I don't know how the blame is split between advertisers using such crap and websites allowing this crap to be put on their site, but all I know is I don't want it. Leave my browsing experience alone, stop trying to force your popups and force me to go to your nasty stuff laden websites with the ads.

However, when it's a site I visit frequently, I will try whitelisting the site again every now and then to see if things have changed. If they have, great, I leave it whitelisted. If ads start taking over my browsing again, nope, back on the blacklist for a while. I'll also try to explain my problem to that website and let them know that if they're able to get rid of the intrusive ads, I'll get rid of the adblocker for their domain. There's probably more money in the intrusive ads, but lots of people viewing smaller ads can be more money in the long run than a few people viewing intrusive shit. And if there's a donation button, I'll try to use it.

As far as The Escapist goes regarding its ads, my only complaint is the captcha ads. The addition of captchas for all members in the first place was completely stupid. Yes, I'm sure people who have been members for years with hundreds if not thousands of posts under their belt without trouble might also be spambots so you'd better make sure. Just make new members fill them out for their first 100 posts or so and then get rid of them. And then the captchas are no longer just a way to filter out spambots, but now the captchas are ads? I've been a member for almost 5 years, I have over 4,000 posts, and yet I have to prove I'm not a spambot who is just here to dump advertisement links by typing out advertisement phrases? What kind of backwards nonsense is that? It's the most asinine justification for extra advertisements that I've ever seen, and has a big part in why I only come to this site for Jimquisition and Zero Punctuation (and even then, I've considered just waiting a week and watching them on YouTube).

Not that I'm using them as an excuse or justification for adblocking this site (adblock doesn't stop them anyway, I tried once and turned it back off again once I realized it didn't work). It would just be nice for the bigwigs of this site to not partake in the kind of greedy nonsense that drives many people to block ads in the first place. It's apparent that I'm not a fucking spambot, stop submitting me to extra ads to constantly prove it.

 

[A Curious Fellow]

This video spoke to me. I want to support The Escapist, I want to support everything I like. So i unblocked the ads and came back.

The ads on this site autoplay at high volume and slow down my computer to the point where it froze up and I couldn't mute it and it woke up my housemates.

Escapist staff? Fix your site. Make supporting you a viable option for me.