Jimquisition: The Creepy Cull of Female Protagonists

[Legion]

Femshep wasn't included in the marketing until ME3 and even then they had a beauty contest (ugh) to redesign the default female character into someone more, uh, "aesthetically pleasing".

No they didn't...

They had a competition to choose the default look for female Shepard. The only differences were hair/eye/skin colour. It's not like they asked people whether or not she should have larger breasts, smoother skin or anything.

That's hardly a beauty contest.

And yet they picked the female Shepard with the long blonde hair.

Come on, denial can be healthy up to a certain point, but look at the fan comments [http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2011/07/24/bioware-lets-fans-choose-female-shepard-39-s-new-look.aspx] on that poll

They asked people to pick the Shepard they wanted based on appearance. It was a beauty contest.

The first point is irrelevant. I never said anything about what the fans said. I was talking about the intention of the developers. A handful of idiots doesn't make a difference to the reason for why the competition was done in the first place. Which is what you were criticising.

So what I am supposed to be denying, I don't know.

Also, they didn't ask people to "Pick the Shepard they wanted based upon appearances". They asked the fans to give input into the design of a female character.

A beauty contest is what it says it is. A competition to decide who is the most attractive.

This was a competition to choose the design of a character. "Beauty" doesn't come into it.

If you can customise your character in-game, then it's just silly to offer the fans the choice of customising the character in the marketing as well. It defeats the purpose of the appearance customisation mechanic, which is built off the assumption that different people like different things.

My main point is that they didn't do a poll for the male Shepard's appearance "to know what the players wanted". But when it came to the simple challenge of designing a female character for box art, they were too scared to come up with and decide upon their own ideas and instead resorted to throwing options at their audience and going, "Which lady is the prettiest? Which lady will make you buy the game? Please, please tell us."

The decision was for the character to put on the box art. Because fans were asking for more advertising for Femshep. They didn't do it as a "resort". They did it because fans asked for it.

Oh, and Male Shep didn't get the same treatment, because he was already based upon a Dutch model:

Spoiler: Mark Vanderloo:

 

[Doom972]

So, the industry tries to deliver what it thinks that its main audience wants? I can't really blame them. Maybe that's what most gamers want to play. The fact that after a certain amount of convincing these games do get approved, means that we'll see more of these as long as developers stick to their guns.

Personally, I don't mind playing a game with a deep female protagonist with a male love interest, and wouldn't think less of a game for it.

 

[Zombie Sodomy]

Now I really wish I was going to PAX. I've only ever had the opportunity to kiss a guy as a girl in Dragon Age, and I had no problem with it. I'm working on a few female characters in SWTOR, and at the first opportunity I'll be having some hot alien sex with a dude. Am I gay? No. I'm not a Jedi or a Grey Warden either, so what's your point?
Edit: I just remembered how much sex I had with men in Fable 2. I think I had an 12-way in that game.

 

[proghead]

For the time being, why not simply let the player choose which gender their in-game persona should belong to? Doesn't Mass Effect let you do just that? I don't think the additional work would be all that much, except for the need of additional voice acting maybe.

But yeah, that homophobia is silly. I bet most of these people prefer their porn with guys in it, too, so there. Grow the f*** up already, dear game industry.

 

[Darks63]

It's 2013 and we still can't have woman in video games because of homophobic neckbearded manchildren.

I love playing women in video games, I pick female characters at every opportunity, always create women in Bethesda titles like Fallout and the Elder Scrolls, I just can't understand, in this day and age, that this attitude still exists.

I;m the same way I try to immerse myself into the role and enjoy the experience whatever it brings. I guess its just an insecurity issue with some gamers.

Offtopic: That Remember Me game keeps looking cooler and cooler.

 

[axlryder]

All this primarily did was remind me how we don't have beyond good and evil 2 yet.

Also, there's not much wrong with simply preferring to play as your own gender, which is an implied vibe I'm getting from some people. I often hear girls bemoan how there aren't enough women to play as. I empathize, surely, but obviously it's that same mentality of wanting a relatable protagonist that drives guys to want to play as guys. Publishers appealing to that mentality also isn't neccessarily sexist, just business. That aside, some good points made in the video here. Woman not showing romantic initiative is a real shame in games, and very limiting overall.

 

[RandV80]

Yeah I don't really think the issue here is one of sexism, but rather it's a basic effect of capitalism when focused on short sighted but immediate profits and what happens when bug publishers start relying more and more on marketing data and focus groups when designing games. If the number of female protagonists in big games have been shrinking then that's just a clearer sign of big business taking over the industry.

I suppose i wouldn't know specifically what this would be like to a female gamer but I certainly feel the same effects, as my preferences for gaming falls well outside the common majority. Though thanks to PC gaming with Indy developers and kickstarters and the occasional console game like Demon's Soul I'm still much better served than the female gamer.

 

[synobal]

I'm really looking forward to Remember Me, between it and Watch Dogs, I might get my cyberpunk fix this year via video games instead of books like I usually do.

 

[Zombie Sodomy]

I wish to god we had more non-sexy, single (?), female protagonists in the vein of Ripley or Samus just because it would add something different to the endless amounts of "Dude-bro" protagonists.

Would Samus really count outside of her armor?

I mean I don't know sexy so I can't really comment, but it really seems that's what they were going for when they put her in a ponytail and the skintight blue bodysuit.

What a waste of time. There's nothing sexier than a power-suit.

 

[Xman490]

Portal 2's GLaDOS, Telltale's The Walking Dead's Clementine, Metroid: Other M's Madeline (who was the "mother" of the "Other M"), and now Bioshock Infinite's Elizabeth, destined to save the world or something: all of these have great female characters/protagonists, and I love every time a game creates a new female character done well.

Speaking of Other M, Samus might as well be a robot in it, but hey, big teams mix good and bad ideas. Good ideas like "Super Metroid, but 3D" get mixed with bad ideas like "Adam controls when you power-up."

 

[lostlevel]

Who needs Anita Sarkesian when the Jimquisition is here to actually elicit discussion about sexism problems in the industry. Long live Jim!

Agreed, I prefer Jim's delivery and they fact that he can give out more information in 5 minutes than she did in 20 minutes atop her money mountain.

Talking about female characters...
WHERE IS MIRROR'S EDGE 2??????????

Also very much agreed, I loved that game.

Maybe the fact that I don't care who I play as long as the game-play is engaging enough or the story line grabs me enough to play it all the way through sometimes despite broken mechanics says a lot about me. Or maybe because once I've invested time and money into something I like to see it through.

I don't really care who's on the cover, as long as it isn't the sort of case that needs extracts from reviews and how many stars it got. That sort of thing actually stops me buying some games and movies.
Then again I like good but simple covers like Panic Room, which is incidentally quite a good movie but coincidentally is quite feminist I suppose...

Hmmm

 

[Lightknight]

Well, there's the fact that women (and minorities) kinda have to get used to it.

Women get used to playing as male characters who get it on with women, while the opposite, not as much.

Yes, my line of thinking was that they had to historically get used to it or miss out on video games and so there may be a significant cultural difference when the same sort of scenarios are imposed on males. I'd love to see studies done on that since it's only a hypothesis.

Either way, with the target market supposedly being comprised of around 47% women this sort of thing should start happening. It's not a boys world anymore, or so it seems. Like I said, we'd need to know more "genre/market category" specific data to ascertain how valid that percentage holds up across the market but it's not like that study asked men a different question.

Race has always been something intersting to study. If the census bureau data is correct that 78.1% of the U.S. is white and if the 2008 gaming demographics study holds true that 51% or more of white people are gamers then there is quite a monopoly of the consumer market by one race. 51% of that 78.1% is still more than all minorities (gamers or not) combined. Yet, having black avatars doesn't seem to detract from sales as far as I can tell and the practice is only increasing. It's interesting that race doesn't have such a big impact but sex may. (one of my favorite things about the 2008 gaming demographic study is that the black population was also represented by 51% gamers. The same number means gaming transcends race and culture. The hispanic and latino population got 68% but they only surveyed English speakers for some reason which skews results by ruining randomization of the sample data).

I'm not sure how I'd personally respond to my avatar having a romantic relationship with a male. I haven't run into it. I know playing as a female hasn't mattered to me in the past and many males choose female avatars anyways when given a choice. Perhaps it's an immersion breaker? Don't know until I see it. Either way, I'm not about to complain about it, not after growing up in the U.S. as a male and having my media cater to me as one.

 

[Legion]

The first point is irrelevant. I never said anything about what the fans said. I was talking about the intention of the developers. A handful of idiots doesn't make a difference to the reason for why the competition was done in the first place. Which is what you were criticising.

So what I am supposed to be denying, I don't know.

Also, they didn't ask people to "Pick the Shepard they wanted based upon appearances". They asked the fans to give input into the design of a female character.

A beauty contest is what it says it is. A competition to decide who is the most attractive.

This was a competition to choose the design of a character. "Beauty" doesn't come into it.

You keep using the word "design" to avoid saying "appearance". That's what the fans were being polled on: the appearance of the character. What her hair and make-up should look like and what her skin colour should be. It was a beauty contest. It was treated as a beauty contest by the fans who were polled. And the Shepard with the long, blonde (non-military) haircut won.

If you're so insistent that it wasn't a beauty contest, tell me this: why didn't they do the same for the male Shepard?

EDIT: My question stands. They found a male model to base male Shepard on. Why not base female Shepard on a female model?

Also, do you really think it's a healthy precedent for games publishers to decide what their game protagonists should look like by letting their consumers vote on it rather than letting the game designers (warning! crazy idea ahead!) design them?

I don't use design to "avoid" saying appearance. A competition to choose a characters looks is obviously based upon appearance, so I don't appreciate the condescension. I am not an idiot, so do not treat me as such.

You must have differing ideas of what constitutes a beauty contest than I do, then. Seeing as the physical characteristics were identical, I don't see where the judgement on beauty comes in. As I said, the relevance of what the fans said or how they perceived it is irrelevant, repeating it does not make it more so.

Why didn't they do it for a male Shepard? Already answered. They chose to base him off of a real model.

Why didn't they use a model for a female Shepard? Perhaps to avoid being accused of being sexist by making their female protagonist based upon an attractive woman.

Or more seriously, I couldn't say, but it honestly doesn't have any relevance to the point I was making. I do not agree that it was a "beauty" contest, because I do not see their intent was for them to be judged upon their attractiveness. You think it was based upon beauty. I doubt we are going to change each others minds, so there's not really much more to say.

As for it being a healthy precedent to set?

Well considering most people complaining about female characters are not happy with the developers choosing for themselves what to do with their time, money and by extension, characters. I'd have thought it'd be seen as a good thing to ask for fan input into the creative process.

This is also forgetting that this is Bioware we are talking about. They constantly ask fans what they want, and try to give them it. It's why Tali and Garrus were romance options in ME2. It's why EDI and Joker had that creepy relationship in ME3, and it's why the Citadel DLC had so many options to do with the romances.

Bioware like asking fans for what they'd want to see in their games, as for whether or not it's a "good" thing or a "bad" thing, I don't really care. If that's how they want to design their games, then that's their choice.