Jimquisition: The Positive Side to Punching Nuns

[Ariseishirou]

The thing is, I'm not sure where the controversy for this trailer is coming from. Is it really the objectification of women? Is it the violence against women? Or is it the religion thing with the nuns?

It's a combination of the first two. Violence against women, so long as they're NOT sexualized, e.g. the female canon fodder in MGS4? Nobody cares. It's no different than fighting horde upon horde of male enemies. Nobody complained about this.

The sexual objectification of women? Honestly that's so rampant everywhere in all media it's unavoidable. That's not really the problem - that's everywhere.

It's sexualizing women for the purpose of making it sexy to kill them. It's torture porn, like Hostel, and that gets under many, many people's skin. Most survivors of sexual violence are women, so that's why you see a disproportionate number of women up in arms about this - but I showed the trailer to a male rape survivor and it made him pretty fucking upset, too.

To me, who has the privilege of not being either, it just looked shitty and boring. There's was nothing new or artistically daring here. It was yet more scantily-clad female game NPCs (oh boy, when was the last time you saw those in a game?!) getting a rather lazily choreographed beat-down from the protagonist with zero tension because you know he has to win.

Blech.

 

[wooty]

This is the same series that kicked up a fuss because it had a scene in Hitman 2 where you asassinate someone in a Sikh temple/thingy building. Yet shooting up a church was a-ok in another game, I guess different situations rile up different people.

Though most people only ever get annoyed once it affects them or their social group.

 

[Chromanin]

Oh please, men are as overly sexualized as women.

This form of retaliation always occurs in theses debates, and I just don't get it. Even if it were true that men were just as hypersexualized as women, why does that make it okay? All that proves is that both men and women are being unfairly represented in media.

 

[MatsVS]

Hey, guys and gals who "didn't mind the trailer"! Guess what? For once in your fucking lives, it's not ACTUALLY ABOUT YOU!

 

[loch belthadd]

Unlike most trailer enemies in this sort of game, the bondage nuns actually got quite a few good hits in and looked like they had a chance to win. So that's something.

 

[Daveman]

I'm sorry, but apart from it not being particularly Hitman-y, I don't see anything that wrong with it.

Sure it's highly impractical for the women to be scantily clad, but why is this any different to Scarlett Johansson in the Avengers? And since when was agent 47 not allowed to kill people, regardless of gender?

It's also 9000% less offensive to me than the movie was.

Hey, guys and gals who "didn't mind the trailer"! Guess what? For once in your fucking lives, it's not ACTUALLY ABOUT YOU!

Who is it about then? Surely I'm just as entitled to say I thought it was alright as anyone else is to say they disliked it?

 

[TJC]

The thing is, I'm not sure where the controversy for this trailer is coming from. Is it really the objectification of women? Is it the violence against women? Or is it the religion thing with the nuns?

It's a combination of the first two. Violence against women, so long as they're NOT sexualized, e.g. the female canon fodder in MGS4? Nobody cares. It's no different than fighting horde upon horde of male enemies. Nobody complained about this.

The sexual objectification of women? Honestly that's so rampant everywhere in all media it's unavoidable. That's not really the problem - that's everywhere.

It's sexualizing women for the purpose of making it sexy to kill them. It's torture porn, like Hostel, and that gets under many, many people's skin. Most survivors of sexual violence are women, so that's why you see a disproportionate number of women up in arms about this - but I showed the trailer to a male rape survivor and it made him pretty fucking upset, too.

To me, who has the privilege of not being either, it just looked shitty and boring. There's was nothing new or artistically daring here. It was yet more scantily-clad female game NPCs (oh boy, when was the last time you saw those in a game?!) getting a rather lazily choreographed beat-down from the protagonist with zero tension because you know he has to win.

Blech.

Thanks for clearing that up. I agree with you that it was boring. Thinking about it, it's sort of distressing that this excessive violence and gore in games (and other media in general) only evokes a bored meh. Did I become so emotionally jaded that I don't give a crap about that anymore? Then again, I recently played Limbo (thank you humble bundle) and stepping into a bear trap got more under my skin than any of this nose-breaking.

 

[spartandude]

I think the killer nuns thing is awesome, personally it's a character I enjoy playing in certain RPG's I've been involved with =3. I'm not shaking my head in disgust at this trailer for it's costumes though, I shake my head because it's all so silly! The skimpy latex costumes are so desperately out of place. I totally see the appeal of such wear in the bedroom though Oo.

If these nuns threw off their robes to reveal bullet-proof vests and what goes along with that, this trailer would be totally badass. I would be sitting here thinking "fuck yeah, sign me up for THAT sisterhood!", but somehow I feel let down insead =P.

i agree with you

i mean wearing nun robes to hide is smart and to have practicle clothing under that is smarter, why the fuck are they wearing... those though hyper sexualisation is just facepalm.... well something palm

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

Uh..... Jim? I think you're reading WAY too far into this.

I'm pretty sure that people didn't rage about this for the sexism or violence against women or anything like that.

I think people raged because Hitman is supposed to be high quality and somewhat serious and this was neither of these.

Furthermore, Absolution has been under a TON of scrutiny. People are trying to find any reason they can to boycott.

 

[MB202]

So... It's a good thing BECAUSE we're getting upset about it? Strange logic, but damned if it doesn't make sense.

 

[LetalisK]

My problem was the use of sexualization without any real purpose. Sexualization can be used to great effect, but more often than not its just used to give guys boners, especially when the sexualization makes absolutely no fucking sense.

Elite female assassins? Okay. Elite female assassins that use nun outfits and christian symbolism as a cover? Interesting. Elite female assassins that use nun outfits and christian symbolism as a cover but then right before their completely overt attack(strike one), they remove their cover out in the open(strike two) to reveal an outfit that is completely impractical and counter-productive(strike three).

If the trailer was trying to give me an indication that these women were badass elite assassins, it fucking failed hard.

 

[Vrach]

ok I totally get the crux of the video, that's not my point, but I honestly don't see the problem with the Hitman trailer?

Is it me?

Ever played a Hitman game?

Spoiler: Have you?

That video is pretty much the same shit as the trailer, but there are a ton more examples of sexualisation in Hitman. Meat factory rave level? The whole level from the above video (heaven and hell rave)? Anyone saying this trailer doesn't have anything to do with the Hitman franchise is talking out of their arse, there's more gimps and scantily clad women in the series than there are assassination targets.

 

[Loonerinoes]

I agree the discussions and controvesies like this do change things in the long run.

The problem is that the only things they do change are the surface things. But underneath at its core...discussion doesn't change what the games themselves are about. It may change (and even here - on the big major scale it only changes things through sheer volume. One informed opinion won't change crap, but 1000 screaming uninformed opinions will) as to how they are presented, how they are percieved, how they are talked about. It may change the big Gen Y issue about games - people's opinion of them.

But it doesn't change the heart of what gaming is about. The developers and how they choose to react to all these influences and pressures are always at the heart of that. All those different games? Internet discussion was not why they came into being. Ultimately they came into being because some developers decided to go against the tide of what was the norm and *did not care* about other people's opinion. Only later, when their core fanbases were established...then they had to start caring obviously.

Creation itself however shouldn't be based on what is popular or what is not - which is all so heavily influenced by the opinions stemming from discussions and controvesies such as this one. In fact, I've found that the more games follow that rule (the rules of following popular or unpopular discussion lines)...the less fun they are. And the more developers choose to be *aware* of these opinions, factoring them into their games while ultimately doing what they would like to do, the more fun they are.

So yes...if people like to follow these kinds of things, let them. But in the end, while they may contribute to developers' thoughts...they don't control them nor do they dictate them. Nor should they. Hence why my interest in them remains close to nil.

 

[godofslack]

But, on a personal level, I can't stand seeing women being brutalized without the brutalizer really struggling. Sure you can say there was a struggle but, the wounds delivered by the nuns were ineffectual whereas Hitman's wounds were all devastating, shown in slow motion.

Here's the problem.

Agent 47 was designed from the ground up to be a killer. His genes are superior and he was trained since a child to kill. He is a fictional creation, so of course he will be able to take on a fight and be able to avoid serious wounds.

It's like complaining that Super Man can survive bullet wounds. It's like complaining that a Tae Kown Do master can kick harder than me.

It's fiction. In Wanted people curve bullets. In Hitman Agent 47 is a highly trained martial artist capable of avoiding wounds.

He got stabbed in the neck! Something that would of instantly killed a Nun but he totally wasn't even injured. That's frankly silly. Look at it this way if you put a super powerful person in a game and had them beat up scantly clad women and have the game slow down to show every gory detail as you kill them I'd have a problem with that. The issue isn't who's killing them, rather the fact somebody is brutalizing them in a sexual manner without any consequence. And even still I'd be okay with that if it was for a reason other than just hurr durr look at this sexy violence.

 

[BehattedWanderer]

I don't get it. They're not actually nuns. They're assassins. The nuns are a cover, and the latex is a distraction. This isn't violence against women, this is violence against assassins, which should happen regardless of their gender or choice of attire. If a single woman took on a cadre of Chippendales dancers when they came to kill her, no one would bat an eye. If he went into a church and did this to actual nuns, then yes, there's an issue there, but since a) these aren't nuns and b) they were fucking assassins, I fail to see a problem.

Of course, it doesn't help any that the word Saints attached to an idea even tangentially related to either violence, sexuality, or ridiculous stunts now only conjures an image of dildo bats, apocafists, fursuits, and the color purple, if you see what I mean. The word has picked up an ironic definition for me, and between the fake nuns, the hyper-sexualized attire, the pulling an RPG out of her skirts, and the way they look like a gang, the game won't be something I'll be taking seriously, but then, I wasn't inclined to do that anyway. I might be even more inclined to buy it now.

 

[Nexxis]

Well I never said there wasn't sexuality in Hitman, but this about context. As you said, that scene takes place at a RAVE: she's wearing a costume to a party. It can at least be justified as a disguise. These "nuns" wear fetish clothing simply to go out and kill someone. What part of shooting RPGs and assault rifles in a parking-lot require fishnet stockings? I've certainly got nothing against scantily clad women in video games (as much as I'd like to but this just tasteless exploitation.

I agree with this
I've heard of the trailer, but I haven't seen it until now. I don't have a problem with the women being hit. Clearly, they intended to do heavy damage and must be stopped in some way, and talking them down didn't look like an option. I do have a problem with the sexualization. There was no point outside of "HEY LOOK! T & A JUST LIKE YOU LIKE IT!" Quite frankly, I'm glad this caused a stir. I hope more issues like this are brought up in the future, and I agree with Jim on this.

 

[Ariseishirou]

If a single woman took on a cadre of Chippendales dancers when they came to kill her, no one would bat an eye.

I have never seen this happen in any form of media entertainment, ever, so it's impossible to say what would happen if it did.

Please show me an example of a woman in completely covering, formal business attire brutally murdering a group of very attractive, highly sexualized men dressed in scanty latex underwear.

Then we can talk.

 

[ex275w]

Oh please, men are as overly sexualized as women.

Spoiler: Yes, they are. For dudes.

I'm not interested into going into a massive back-and-forth, so I'll just agree to disagree with you on that point.

I also have to disagree, women like different types of men, saying they like only cute bishies ignores that Fabio or Thor are (or were) popular with women (in part) due to their muscular physique. Other women find nerdy guys like Stephen Merchant to be very attractive.

Um..... So?
Women like different kinds of men, just as men like different types of women. Designing for a specific gender is hard, since not everyone of that genders shares the same tastes. At the same time you end up attracting a portion of the opposite gender. Look at what happened with My Little Pony, designed for a female audience, attracted a huge male audience.

I find girls with smaller breasts to be attractive, does that mean that those battle nuns with the huge tits and cleavage weren't sexualized for men because I prefer something different?
The characters were sexualized, due to them having prominent female sexual characteristics. It is independent of the fact that you weren't attracted to them. I mean, Disney Aladdin was redesigned to be more ****able for women. Does that mean that because he wasn't sexualized for women because I don't want to have sex with him? You can answer that question.

 

[TheSear]

Jim, I have to ask you, can you please do another video on the subject. There are far to many people who do not get it, even though it is easy to get. I doubt you read this forum (as the comments under your video are probably easier to access), but I still have to ask. I would love you to do another video that explains to these morons what the controversy is.