And in that regard, PH wasn't even the scariest thing in SH2... that award goes to the Abstract Daddy / 'Doorman'. Remember that one? You'll know you remember it (and what it represents) when that cold shiver runs up your spine.MiracleOfSound said:
Jimquisition: The Ugly Secret of Horror Games
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
I recently Heard of "Chiller", an arcade game where you kill people in a torture chamber, which I assumed would have Dreamcast level graphics and just look silly, but when I looked it up it turned out to 8 bit which I found more disturbing since it had a gritty look and left more to the imagination.
Jim, I'm afraid you've missed the mark on this one. Yours seems like a rather sheltered opinion. If you've ever been threatened with a deadly weapon, gotten into a dire fistfight, or worked with dangerous animals (all of the above apply to me), then you know the scariest things are those closest to home. The alien and unknown are certainly distressing, but it's not what really makes your pulse pound and your adrenaline surge.
As a dozen people have already said, pretty, modern graphics have made developers lazy with regards to atmosphere. If all else is equal, the horror game with better graphics (read: more realistic, not necessarily "prettier") is going to be scarier because the visuals produce better immersion. The trick is making everything else equal.
As a dozen people have already said, pretty, modern graphics have made developers lazy with regards to atmosphere. If all else is equal, the horror game with better graphics (read: more realistic, not necessarily "prettier") is going to be scarier because the visuals produce better immersion. The trick is making everything else equal.
You mean those cute little pets from the new Fallout games? D'aaaawwwww.MiracleOfSound said:
Seriously, I don't think anything will ever horrify me like the Doorman. For Christ's sake, it attacked you by jumping on you and trying to suffocate you by sticking your head up some sort of vaginal orifice. x_x
Way to reiterate the exact same sentence for 7 minutes, Jim. But then that's hardly remote from all the other episodes, so I guess I'm late to bring it up now. Thank god for you, indeed. What ever would we do without the Jimquisition pointing out the rather obvious to us like that. One tiny suggestion to make the show even better, I mean, if that's even possible. I feel it definetely needs more unfunny forced humor and more wacky scenes of you being fat in front of the camera. Thank you for your consideration.
Also, minus points for specifically not mentioning the fog in Silent Hill. It's the least you could have done.
Also, minus points for specifically not mentioning the fog in Silent Hill. It's the least you could have done.
While what Sterling is true I found his choice of words rather poor. He used ugly to refer to so many different things, limited, uncanny, lacking in detail are words I can think of at the top of my head that could replace segments where ugly were used.
I alos found the term 'psycological horror' a little weird to use for something semantical identical to 'lasting dread' since i was under the impression that all horror is psycological and 'psychological horror' refers to the use of psycology to create a different kind of horror in media.
I alos found the term 'psycological horror' a little weird to use for something semantical identical to 'lasting dread' since i was under the impression that all horror is psycological and 'psychological horror' refers to the use of psycology to create a different kind of horror in media.
When ever I buy a horror game, I either go to metacritic to see with version got a lower score and looks worse or I go find a comparison video to see which version of the game looks worse. When it comes to horror games, the version that looks worse is the better choice.
Wow, that is a good example. I never saw the new one, because I had no interest in it, and it looks like I made the right choice. The original version of that scene had so much tension in it, and they totally ruined it by turning it into a generic action/fight sequence. The original monster was creepier in both appearance and movement, and combined with the lighting and restrained pacing and music it's actually a lot more exciting with a small fraction of the action they crammed into the new one.MiracleOfSound said:
While it's nice to see Jim put out an episode that has a point besides "I didn't feel like writing a script this week," it would've been nice if that point had been something MovieBob hadn't already made more than two weeks ago with his review of 2011's The Thing.
Jim has the ability to make some really strong arguements against what's wrong with the video game industry, but it seems like he's run out of steam now that his first year is up. Did he chew through the A material in a pre-emptive bid to stay afloat, or did he just stop caring? I guess that's up to the fans to decide, and Jim has plenty of them, but I'm not seeing the same biting truth I've seen in earlier videos, and that's a real shame.
Jim has the ability to make some really strong arguements against what's wrong with the video game industry, but it seems like he's run out of steam now that his first year is up. Did he chew through the A material in a pre-emptive bid to stay afloat, or did he just stop caring? I guess that's up to the fans to decide, and Jim has plenty of them, but I'm not seeing the same biting truth I've seen in earlier videos, and that's a real shame.
I started this episode expecting something sarcastic, or expecting to disagree entirely. But Jim has some excellent points.
The part about limitations either technical or economic also holds true for other genres. If an artist is limited in what can be done, it sometimes act as a source of inspiration driving creativity.
Jim is entirely wrong about the C64 "Friday the 13th" though. The true scary part wasn't that it looked ugly. The graphics of the basic gameplay was comparable to other titles at the time, and the scary images were fairly hi fidelity. The truly scary effect was that the volume of the normal in game sounds were very low, so people turned up their sound to hear the game. When a murder occured the ugly digitized scream was played at full power. It was a cheap trick for sure but it worked on that occasion.
It was a nice touch to mention this game though, because it was probably the first successful attempt at making a scary game.
In relation to old school scares. I found Maniac Mansion scary on a few occasions, due to the absurd and ugly graphics and setting. And the fact that NPCs enter the stage when you least expect it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniac_mansion
Amnesia is actually so scary that I can't play it. It's a bit of a shame because the story seems well developed, but I still have to applaud how successfully it scares me.
The part about limitations either technical or economic also holds true for other genres. If an artist is limited in what can be done, it sometimes act as a source of inspiration driving creativity.
Jim is entirely wrong about the C64 "Friday the 13th" though. The true scary part wasn't that it looked ugly. The graphics of the basic gameplay was comparable to other titles at the time, and the scary images were fairly hi fidelity. The truly scary effect was that the volume of the normal in game sounds were very low, so people turned up their sound to hear the game. When a murder occured the ugly digitized scream was played at full power. It was a cheap trick for sure but it worked on that occasion.
It was a nice touch to mention this game though, because it was probably the first successful attempt at making a scary game.
In relation to old school scares. I found Maniac Mansion scary on a few occasions, due to the absurd and ugly graphics and setting. And the fact that NPCs enter the stage when you least expect it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniac_mansion
Amnesia is actually so scary that I can't play it. It's a bit of a shame because the story seems well developed, but I still have to applaud how successfully it scares me.
I think Jim is mistaking production values for something else.
Some points:
1. Amnesia isn't primitive graphics. The game looks pretty good. For an indie game it looks excellent and it surpasses any triple-A game released before 2004.
2. Amnesia is scary because it uses the same trick from scary horror movies: it doesn't give you a good look at the monsters and the protagonist cannot fight back.
3. The unknown isn't the only way to do scary horror. High production values and clear shots of the monsters can work, if the scenes are alien and gruesome enough: Hellraiser 1 & 2 are classic horror movies.
What's wrong with most modern horror games then isn't high quality visuals, but lack of atmosphere, weak art direction and a protagonist with too much power.
Some points:
1. Amnesia isn't primitive graphics. The game looks pretty good. For an indie game it looks excellent and it surpasses any triple-A game released before 2004.
2. Amnesia is scary because it uses the same trick from scary horror movies: it doesn't give you a good look at the monsters and the protagonist cannot fight back.
3. The unknown isn't the only way to do scary horror. High production values and clear shots of the monsters can work, if the scenes are alien and gruesome enough: Hellraiser 1 & 2 are classic horror movies.
What's wrong with most modern horror games then isn't high quality visuals, but lack of atmosphere, weak art direction and a protagonist with too much power.
That whole damn level scared the hell out of me! That stair case freaked me out towards the end and I was literally swinging my pipe like a idiot by the time I hit the bottom. Running into Pyramid Head with his spear(!) was terrifying and I died so fast from all the frantic screaming and jumping I was doing.MiracleOfSound said:Totally agree. I'll never forget that moment in Silent Hill 2... most utterly terrified I've ever felt playing a game, made even more scary by the lo-fi, muddy sound effects in the distance.
OT: I completely agree, the graphics now suck the life out of horror games (pun not intended) since everything looks amazing and it takes the element of fright from the game, and to a certain extent horror films too.
I know in older Silent Hill games the biggest thing was their grim filter and it added a layer of tension, but then again they had a grim filter in Homecoming and it made everything look like the maid forgot to vacuum and dust. Jump scares are rather lame and I'm really tired of hearing frantic violins playing every time a monster is coming, and it's sad when most horror games rely on that.
It all seems pretty subjective to me. I'll agree that Resident Evil 2, played with a good sound system, is as scary as scary shit goes. However, I also have to point out that even games with a clear focus away from horror can be truly harrowing experiences in their own right.
Anyone remember the Ayleid ruins from Oblivion? I, personally, was terrified by these places. The fey lighting, the knowledge that they're basically corpse-infested warrens or bandit hideouts, the ghosts and the wraiths, at later levels...
Scary shit, if you're in the mood for that. Other examples abound, but I'm sure nobody needs to hear me belt out "Ravenholm!", as two or three persons above me are sure to have done the same.
Otherwise, I'll admit both Dead Space games scared me, as did Doom 3 back in the day. I'm a scaredy-cat by nature and I'm also naturally jumpy. Monster closets might bore everyone else to tears, but I still shit bricks when the second zombie shambles down that catwalk, in Doom 3.
Anyone remember the Ayleid ruins from Oblivion? I, personally, was terrified by these places. The fey lighting, the knowledge that they're basically corpse-infested warrens or bandit hideouts, the ghosts and the wraiths, at later levels...
Scary shit, if you're in the mood for that. Other examples abound, but I'm sure nobody needs to hear me belt out "Ravenholm!", as two or three persons above me are sure to have done the same.
Otherwise, I'll admit both Dead Space games scared me, as did Doom 3 back in the day. I'm a scaredy-cat by nature and I'm also naturally jumpy. Monster closets might bore everyone else to tears, but I still shit bricks when the second zombie shambles down that catwalk, in Doom 3.
The problem with your logic is that you assume that something can only be immersive if it looks realistic, but as long as there's any human or relatable element we can attach to, we can be immersed. The same can be said of any creative medium. Final Fantasy: Spirits Within definitely looks closer to reality, but I don't think many people would say it's a more engaging film than Toy Story. In horror, the best path is to have something relatable, but slightly off and unnatural, something you can feel connected to and repulsed by at the same time, and low-res graphics can definitely help in that department.SecretNegative said:
Interesting episode. I don't really care about horror games being scary so this 'issue' episode didn't really do it for me, but it was well put together. All in all I would still rather there be jokes (and narcissistic self-effacing semi-jokes do not count) in every episode no matter how hard you work on the material itself being serious.
