I agree to some extent but if Jim thinks Amnesia isn't better looking than unreal engine console games then he needs to visit the optician again. He's falsely trying to fit the evidence to his own bias.
Jimquisition: The Ugly Secret of Horror Games
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
I remember playing Amnesia, I was fucking around with chairs and generally laughing my ass off. It wan't the right way to play of course, but it kept me quite entertained. *FCk YOU CHAIR! YOU DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO! [hulk smashes the thing around the room for about a minute] good times ahhhhhh* *stares unseeingly in distance*
Another problem I think is a major issue in new video games and movies is a lack of tension or suspense. Everything has to be GO GO GO action otherwise people will get bored. That example with the Medusa from Clash of the Titans is a great one to show what I mean.
You never see a slow suspenseful scene like that anymore.
You never see a slow suspenseful scene like that anymore.
I have to completely disagree with the video. Amnesia would not be less scary if it had higher resolution textures, better shaders and higher polygon environments. Amnesia is scary because it gets the pacing right as well as it effectively employs core horror elements. These elements are isolation, hostility and vulnerability, tension and the unknown, urgency and despair, the illogical or impossible, expectation and anticipation, and hope. These elements in the context of Amnesia are expressed as:
1. Isolation: the player is trapped in a keep with no one to turn to or depend on. Most horror stories involve physically isolating the protagonist. Mental isolation is more difficult to convey but can be just as frightening if not more so. There may be people with you but your way of thinking and seeing things perplexes or agitates them, making them incapable or unwilling to understand or help you.
2. Hostility and vulnerability: the player is in a dangerous environment that physically and psychologically threatens him. Worst of all, he does not have the strength or the means to successfully combat this threat.
3. Tension and the unknown: Tension is always tied to not knowing. Long-term tension is brought about by trying to find out why you lost your memory, who or what is out to get you and why, how did you get trapped here, and how will you make it out alive. Short-term tension is produced by not knowing if your limited resources will last, what is creating those strange footsteps and growling noises you just heard, and what cast that odd shadow you just saw move in the corner of your eye.
Even in normal, day-to-day activities, tension is derived from not knowing. You are tense about a performance because you do not know if it will be received well, you are tense about an interview because you do not know if you are qualified, you are tense about a date because you do not know if you will make the right impression.
Tension is the most important element in horror. Keep the player or viewer guessing. Set up expectations and then don?t deliver. Ask questions but don't answer them. Then pace the tension with brief moments of respite or enlightenment that invariably lead to more questions and expectations. In Amnesia there is a letter you wrote to yourself that asks you to kill someone. You have no idea who this person is and why you should kill him. Eventually you find out who he is and what he did. This revelation answers those two questions but it now forces the player to ask why this person did what he did and can this conflict be resolved in any way but murder.
4. Urgency and despair: the player is reluctantly forced into action. If he sits still the lamp oil runs out, his sanity drops and his persecutors get closer. However, his actions bring about despair. Every step he takes and every piece of the puzzle uncovered seems to bring him closer to the very thing he is trying to get away from. Every action takes him opposite the intended direction but he is pressured into acting by forces beyond his control.
5. The impossible: we like living in a world that makes sense and fits into our understanding of reality. Disturb that and the mind has a hard time coping. The supernatural elements that haunt the keep are just that: supernatural and impossible. Admittedly, the occult is one of the easiest and most universally accepted ways of conveying an impossible reality. Unfortunately, its pervasiveness makes it alone an ineffective way of depicting horror.
6. Hope: despite the overwhelming and unknown odds, there is a tiny bit of hope that with enough luck, caution, and perseverance, the player just might solve the mystery and make it out alive.
Note how none of these elements are tied to any visuals. Visual elements can be used to help convey some of these concepts but it is how they are used that makes them effective, not the medium in which they are defined. (high poly vs. low poly, text vs. film, etc.)
I loved Dead Space but it did not deliver well on some of these principles. It relied too much on frequently startling the player (even pacing). Many "scary" areas or events were obvious due to recurring patterns (met expectations). The player eventually grew too powerful, making you feel competent enough to take on the enemies head on(lack of vulnerability). The threat was too well defined, allowing you to logically interpret and asses the danger around you (understanding).
If it were up to me, I'd make the monsters in Dead Space invulnerable. You can incapacitate them to the point where they can do little more than inch very slowly towards you but you can't kill them. With a bit of care, you can easily circumvent them once they reach this state but, as you travel deeper and deeper into the ship, in the back of your head you know there are literally dozens upon dozens of relentless, mutilated monstrosities inching their way closer you so you'd best keep moving. Instead, once I "clear" an area I know it's safe and I can just chill out and look for hidden loot, only moving on to the next area and new dangers on my own terms.
Going back to the first point (isolation), I can't help but bring up Alice: Madness Returns. The game itself is not horror, just visually creative and stylized, but I think it does a fantastic job of visually portraying isolation in a world filled with people. In the opening sequence you play as Alice prior to entering wonderland. Alice is rendered as a beautiful, young female yet every single person, young or old, male or female looks off and twisted. Sometimes I think they are not really twisted, but Alice perceives them that way because of her trauma. Regardless of the reason, you can immediately tell she is not one of them and is alone in the world.
The fact is that a truly scary story, movie or game takes a great deal of planning and careful execution outside of the visual and aural. I'm not surprised that these elements are better expressed in a labor of love, like Amnesia, than in a AAA conservative title like Dead Space. There is no reason why Dead Space, with its high production values and huge marketing campaign, could not have been as scary or scarier than Amnesia.
1. Isolation: the player is trapped in a keep with no one to turn to or depend on. Most horror stories involve physically isolating the protagonist. Mental isolation is more difficult to convey but can be just as frightening if not more so. There may be people with you but your way of thinking and seeing things perplexes or agitates them, making them incapable or unwilling to understand or help you.
2. Hostility and vulnerability: the player is in a dangerous environment that physically and psychologically threatens him. Worst of all, he does not have the strength or the means to successfully combat this threat.
3. Tension and the unknown: Tension is always tied to not knowing. Long-term tension is brought about by trying to find out why you lost your memory, who or what is out to get you and why, how did you get trapped here, and how will you make it out alive. Short-term tension is produced by not knowing if your limited resources will last, what is creating those strange footsteps and growling noises you just heard, and what cast that odd shadow you just saw move in the corner of your eye.
Even in normal, day-to-day activities, tension is derived from not knowing. You are tense about a performance because you do not know if it will be received well, you are tense about an interview because you do not know if you are qualified, you are tense about a date because you do not know if you will make the right impression.
Tension is the most important element in horror. Keep the player or viewer guessing. Set up expectations and then don?t deliver. Ask questions but don't answer them. Then pace the tension with brief moments of respite or enlightenment that invariably lead to more questions and expectations. In Amnesia there is a letter you wrote to yourself that asks you to kill someone. You have no idea who this person is and why you should kill him. Eventually you find out who he is and what he did. This revelation answers those two questions but it now forces the player to ask why this person did what he did and can this conflict be resolved in any way but murder.
4. Urgency and despair: the player is reluctantly forced into action. If he sits still the lamp oil runs out, his sanity drops and his persecutors get closer. However, his actions bring about despair. Every step he takes and every piece of the puzzle uncovered seems to bring him closer to the very thing he is trying to get away from. Every action takes him opposite the intended direction but he is pressured into acting by forces beyond his control.
5. The impossible: we like living in a world that makes sense and fits into our understanding of reality. Disturb that and the mind has a hard time coping. The supernatural elements that haunt the keep are just that: supernatural and impossible. Admittedly, the occult is one of the easiest and most universally accepted ways of conveying an impossible reality. Unfortunately, its pervasiveness makes it alone an ineffective way of depicting horror.
6. Hope: despite the overwhelming and unknown odds, there is a tiny bit of hope that with enough luck, caution, and perseverance, the player just might solve the mystery and make it out alive.
Note how none of these elements are tied to any visuals. Visual elements can be used to help convey some of these concepts but it is how they are used that makes them effective, not the medium in which they are defined. (high poly vs. low poly, text vs. film, etc.)
I loved Dead Space but it did not deliver well on some of these principles. It relied too much on frequently startling the player (even pacing). Many "scary" areas or events were obvious due to recurring patterns (met expectations). The player eventually grew too powerful, making you feel competent enough to take on the enemies head on(lack of vulnerability). The threat was too well defined, allowing you to logically interpret and asses the danger around you (understanding).
If it were up to me, I'd make the monsters in Dead Space invulnerable. You can incapacitate them to the point where they can do little more than inch very slowly towards you but you can't kill them. With a bit of care, you can easily circumvent them once they reach this state but, as you travel deeper and deeper into the ship, in the back of your head you know there are literally dozens upon dozens of relentless, mutilated monstrosities inching their way closer you so you'd best keep moving. Instead, once I "clear" an area I know it's safe and I can just chill out and look for hidden loot, only moving on to the next area and new dangers on my own terms.
Going back to the first point (isolation), I can't help but bring up Alice: Madness Returns. The game itself is not horror, just visually creative and stylized, but I think it does a fantastic job of visually portraying isolation in a world filled with people. In the opening sequence you play as Alice prior to entering wonderland. Alice is rendered as a beautiful, young female yet every single person, young or old, male or female looks off and twisted. Sometimes I think they are not really twisted, but Alice perceives them that way because of her trauma. Regardless of the reason, you can immediately tell she is not one of them and is alone in the world.
The fact is that a truly scary story, movie or game takes a great deal of planning and careful execution outside of the visual and aural. I'm not surprised that these elements are better expressed in a labor of love, like Amnesia, than in a AAA conservative title like Dead Space. There is no reason why Dead Space, with its high production values and huge marketing campaign, could not have been as scary or scarier than Amnesia.
Silent Hill 4: The Room, The Stuffed Rabbit, need I say more?
Also, Silent Hill 3, at the corrupted mirror thing (whatever the hell that thing was, you know what I mean).
Also, Silent Hill 3, at the corrupted mirror thing (whatever the hell that thing was, you know what I mean).
I disagree with this. Bad graphics don't make a game scarier. What I think mostly does it is the environment. Dead Space was not scary because pretty much all the monsters jumped out, screamed, and then ran after you. When something jumps out, goes "booga booga", then comes after you, it is a lot less scary than wondering around a place that seems empty and then hearing noises all around you without ever seeing what it is.
I think the issue is that horror is by definition a niche genere, and anything that attempts to find mainstream appeal outside of that niche cannot really remain horror.
It has nothing to do with the graphics, or whether things look pretty or ugly, expensive, or cheap, it has everything to do with whether the developers are willing to push the envelope and try and freak out jaded horror fans. In doing so it should be understood that those who are NOT horror fans are liable to get really offended, and the producers need to be prepared to deal with that.
See horror, fear, and shock are by and large negative feelings, they are something only a few people can actually enjoy, oftentimes retroactively. Today "horror" has become about kitsch and un-offensive trappings that don't really offend anyone, things like zombies have become like Coca-Cola and hamburgers, despite being tenatively inserted into the horror catagory.
If you seriously mess around with themes involving religion, satanism, cultural traits, or other things grounded in reality someone is going to complain, rally the left wing, and then producers are going to fold even if the core, niche, audience embraces the product. If you start playing around with concepts like Voodoo, Native American Monsters/Shamanism, and other things in a horrorific fashion, then your going to get called insensitive to those cultures. Likewise if you mess around with things like graphic rape, child murder, and similar things, there is going to be a negative backlash. Basically nobody wants to genuinely be scared or made uncomfortable and the response to succeeding at this is exactly rhe kind of response producers don't want from the mainstream... as a result we wind up seeing a ton of action kitsch with recycled zombies, aliens, or perhaps generic "demons" that are toissed out devoid of much context and don't do anything paticularly demonic except try and kill you using the standard array of video game conventions.
Whether it's movies or video games, it's important to note that back during the 1980s producers were not creating exclusively for the mainstream to the extent they are nowadays. This is why you hear people talking about "corperate sell outs" especially when it comes to video games (Hollywood has always been incredibly corperate, but it used to have more guts). The industry didn't much care if you could kill children in "Fallout 2", and despite the outcry from certain quarters franchises like "Halloween" didn't exactly get nixed in the long run because they upset some people... this despite (pretty much untrue) allegations that the "Halloween" movies ruined the holiday by being the inspiration for real psychopaths.
Really, the solution here is that game companies need to produce horror games for horror fans, and be content with the profits that brings in, while having the willpower to just laugh off the criticism.
By the same token I will also say that the geek media needs to stop giving the left wing a platform for grabbing five minutes of fame. I mean it's the fault of the geek media that we had stupid accusations of racism circling around "Resident Evil 5", and just had contreversy over the use of the word "*****" in the recent Batman "Arkham City" game discussed here on The Escapist's podcast. Basically as soon as you start taking claims of games being offensive to someone or some group seriously, it just never stops, and horror being the most offensive genere by it's very nature is understandably going to be hit the hardest.
It has nothing to do with the graphics, or whether things look pretty or ugly, expensive, or cheap, it has everything to do with whether the developers are willing to push the envelope and try and freak out jaded horror fans. In doing so it should be understood that those who are NOT horror fans are liable to get really offended, and the producers need to be prepared to deal with that.
See horror, fear, and shock are by and large negative feelings, they are something only a few people can actually enjoy, oftentimes retroactively. Today "horror" has become about kitsch and un-offensive trappings that don't really offend anyone, things like zombies have become like Coca-Cola and hamburgers, despite being tenatively inserted into the horror catagory.
If you seriously mess around with themes involving religion, satanism, cultural traits, or other things grounded in reality someone is going to complain, rally the left wing, and then producers are going to fold even if the core, niche, audience embraces the product. If you start playing around with concepts like Voodoo, Native American Monsters/Shamanism, and other things in a horrorific fashion, then your going to get called insensitive to those cultures. Likewise if you mess around with things like graphic rape, child murder, and similar things, there is going to be a negative backlash. Basically nobody wants to genuinely be scared or made uncomfortable and the response to succeeding at this is exactly rhe kind of response producers don't want from the mainstream... as a result we wind up seeing a ton of action kitsch with recycled zombies, aliens, or perhaps generic "demons" that are toissed out devoid of much context and don't do anything paticularly demonic except try and kill you using the standard array of video game conventions.
Whether it's movies or video games, it's important to note that back during the 1980s producers were not creating exclusively for the mainstream to the extent they are nowadays. This is why you hear people talking about "corperate sell outs" especially when it comes to video games (Hollywood has always been incredibly corperate, but it used to have more guts). The industry didn't much care if you could kill children in "Fallout 2", and despite the outcry from certain quarters franchises like "Halloween" didn't exactly get nixed in the long run because they upset some people... this despite (pretty much untrue) allegations that the "Halloween" movies ruined the holiday by being the inspiration for real psychopaths.
Really, the solution here is that game companies need to produce horror games for horror fans, and be content with the profits that brings in, while having the willpower to just laugh off the criticism.
By the same token I will also say that the geek media needs to stop giving the left wing a platform for grabbing five minutes of fame. I mean it's the fault of the geek media that we had stupid accusations of racism circling around "Resident Evil 5", and just had contreversy over the use of the word "*****" in the recent Batman "Arkham City" game discussed here on The Escapist's podcast. Basically as soon as you start taking claims of games being offensive to someone or some group seriously, it just never stops, and horror being the most offensive genere by it's very nature is understandably going to be hit the hardest.
But Amnesia:TDD had quite glossy graphics, it was the sounds and screen blurring that made that game scary. And now I think about it Terminator 1 had those very weird loud sounds which I think made it scarier than T2 and especially T3.
Yeah, actually I don't think visuals make much of a difference, it's definitely those sharp loud sounds that make something scary. Sorry Jim, I disagree!
Also, at 6:19 in the video... What the fuck!...
Yeah, actually I don't think visuals make much of a difference, it's definitely those sharp loud sounds that make something scary. Sorry Jim, I disagree!
Also, at 6:19 in the video... What the fuck!...
Unfortunately I don't have specific sources from where these points are drawn. I just have an interest in the mechanics of good story telling, horror or otherwise. I'm sure that if you do a search for elements of principles of horror, you will come across similar and better articulated concepts.Abandon4093 said:
Afraid I have to disagree with you, Jim. What you are talking about is not horrifying the audience, it's "gore-ifying" them. Anyone can make a game or movie with lots of blood and gore, ugly or otherwise, but what makes horror truly be horror is the hopelessness and the unknowable. It's finding oneself trapped in a situation in which you have no control, no understanding, and no escape. With each moment, you never know whether it will be your last, and the best horror film/game, for truly creating a since of horror, would give you a singular moment of hope, only to take it away from you at the very end. But, it doesn't just take away that hope; it demonstrates that you never really had any hope to begin with. Whatever hope you thought you had was only an illusion, a trick being played on you. That's really horror. Real horror is malicious.
Often times, horror is implemented through suspense, a deliberate act of concealing what lies ahead but forcing you to continue forward anyway. You are constantly made to ponder what could be before you, but you are never given complete information of what it could be. Instead, you are given only shadows of possibility that play upon fearful human imaginings to increase the level of tension and apprehension. With your imagination running away and your fears at their peak, you become recalcitrant to proceed forward. Unfortunately for you, there is no other direction to go, and you can't simply stay put where you are. You are compelled, either by force or curiosity, to continue forward. It is not what you can see that makes you afraid; it's what you can't see, yet, imagine to be there that makes you afraid. Even worse, to know something lies ahead, but you have no idea what it is and can't even begin to imagine or comprehend what it is.
Using hopelessness and playing upon our fears of the unknown and incomprehensible, that is what makes horror be horror. Creating bloody, ugly, or grotesque mannequins or twisted, perverse creatures does not really create horror so much as simply perturbing us from our comfort zone. True, this can be made to be a component of horror, but it is not the true essence of horror. It is not the grotesque looking monster that makes you horrified; it's the fact that you perceive you can do nothing against it that makes it horrifying. No one's going to be afraid of the monster they can kill just by beating the shit out of with a tire-iron, but everyone is afraid of the monster that takes no damage at all from any attack you make against it. However, if you really want to make it truly horrifying, you beat the shit out of it with a tire-iron, it lays there like it is dead for just a moment, and then it slowly gets back up, wounds healed and completely unaffected by your attacks. A moment of hope, only to have that hope taken from you, and to reveal that you actually never had that hope to begin with. It was just toying with you.
Creating this kind of horror requires a keen sense of artistry in the narrative, game design, and pacing of the game, not the graphics. The graphics can be pretty or shitty, it doesn't actually matter, because the graphics aren't what creates the sense of horror.
Often times, horror is implemented through suspense, a deliberate act of concealing what lies ahead but forcing you to continue forward anyway. You are constantly made to ponder what could be before you, but you are never given complete information of what it could be. Instead, you are given only shadows of possibility that play upon fearful human imaginings to increase the level of tension and apprehension. With your imagination running away and your fears at their peak, you become recalcitrant to proceed forward. Unfortunately for you, there is no other direction to go, and you can't simply stay put where you are. You are compelled, either by force or curiosity, to continue forward. It is not what you can see that makes you afraid; it's what you can't see, yet, imagine to be there that makes you afraid. Even worse, to know something lies ahead, but you have no idea what it is and can't even begin to imagine or comprehend what it is.
Using hopelessness and playing upon our fears of the unknown and incomprehensible, that is what makes horror be horror. Creating bloody, ugly, or grotesque mannequins or twisted, perverse creatures does not really create horror so much as simply perturbing us from our comfort zone. True, this can be made to be a component of horror, but it is not the true essence of horror. It is not the grotesque looking monster that makes you horrified; it's the fact that you perceive you can do nothing against it that makes it horrifying. No one's going to be afraid of the monster they can kill just by beating the shit out of with a tire-iron, but everyone is afraid of the monster that takes no damage at all from any attack you make against it. However, if you really want to make it truly horrifying, you beat the shit out of it with a tire-iron, it lays there like it is dead for just a moment, and then it slowly gets back up, wounds healed and completely unaffected by your attacks. A moment of hope, only to have that hope taken from you, and to reveal that you actually never had that hope to begin with. It was just toying with you.
Creating this kind of horror requires a keen sense of artistry in the narrative, game design, and pacing of the game, not the graphics. The graphics can be pretty or shitty, it doesn't actually matter, because the graphics aren't what creates the sense of horror.
You would have been totally creepier with a chainsaw machete.Jim Sterling said:
Serious time: I do not disagree with your opinion.