Jimquisition: The Wacky Harassment Blame Parade

[Karadalis]

Nothing will...

Nothing you nor i can do will stop a hatefull person being hatefull.

See you think these people care about what you or I think in the slightest.

That somehow our words affect them in any way or form

But they dont.. nothing you, nor i, nor anyone else says to them will stop them in their hate rampage.

The only thing that stop a troll from trolling is a ban, and even then they find a way around said ban.

So the only solution is to ignore these trolls and realize that they are a minority that holds no sway in the grander scheme of things.

As for the real live harasment... again it was extremely stupid to post her real life info like her phone number on the net.

Want a male example?

How about tha Blizzard admin who only posted his real name on the net and not hours later had people call him on his phone knowing all kinds of private info about him? He was also harrased.

But instead of people "coming to his aid" they rightly called him off for doing something incredible stupid. Theres being the victim and then there is making yourselfe readily available to becomming a victim.

That Blizzard example is actually a good example but not in the way you think. He posted his real name saying that just a name alone was not enough to make you unsafe. Then all of his personal info was found and he was called. In his case the people were very polite about it and said they just wanted to show why real names were a bad idea.

So you are kind of making the case FOR the existence of a double standard between male and female developers. That guy was not harassed.

Oh the example i wanted to take out of it is that posting your private info.. any private info is incredible stupid on the net.

And that it allways leads to very very bad stuff no matter the gender.

Also not harassed? It could and most likely would have gone bad very very fast if they hadnt removed the full name emidiantly and the people who had found out all that info had belonged to the more... hatefull demographic of the internet.

He was lucky... nothing more nothing less.

People actually told him where his kids go to school.. polite or not that is incredibly alarming and shows that no matter your gender, posting your info on the net is an invitation to bad things.

And... so what? Are you implying that the harassment is her fault because people were able to find her info? A lot of professionals have their info posted online so others can get in touch with them, my info is online for business purposes. This kind of comment reeks of "it is her fault" bullshit. If that is not what you mean then my apologies but it gets old reading this kind of blame the victim stuff.

Fault?

You know what.. yes... yes it is her fault that she was called on her private phone and gotten creepy calls.

In this entire situation that is the only point where she is at fault herselfe for what happened.

And you know why this is her fault? Because she wouldnt have been called on her phone by these people if they didnt had her private phone number!

And you are just as foolish to have your private information readily available to everyone on the internet. Usually businesses have business numbers that only connect to business phones. She however gave away her PRIVATE mobile number from what i understood.

She is NOT at fault for the existance of those people or their hate towards her. She is however responsible for her own behavior.

Sorry if that doesnt sit with your perfect view of the world but if you do stupid things then you only have to blame yourselfe.

Does that mean i support the hate? No i dont, but i also dont feel pitty for someone who does something stupid and then gets burned due to their own stupidity.

The people that utter death threats or sexually harass her should be persecuted however that is no reason to somehow apologize her own naivity.

If i tell people not to come into my garden to try to pet the dog because he might bite is it still my dog whos to blame? Or rather the idiot who ignored my warning, climbed over my fence, came into my garden and tried to pet my dog that i told him not to pet?

 

[Bruce]

I am seeing a lot of people saying Jim said you have to act - and that's not actually what he said. What he said is that if you choose not to act on the issue - which is 100% your right - don't then go online and whine at those who do.

If a topic doesn't interest you - don't post on it. You don't have to give your two cents, and doing so just makes you look bad.

And this covers more than feminism really, if all you have to contribute to any discussion about bad behaviour is how you aren't in the class being criticised, or how bored you are of the discussion, or how "it is the Internet" or something like that, it just means you are really part of the problem.

You don't have to participate in the discussion, but that you choose to, and you do so in a manner which is more about dismissing complaints rather than dealing with them, shows you are part of the issue that is being complained about.

Isn't this line of "you should just shut the fuck up then" thinking identical with what Jim says is wrong about what he calls "victim blaming"? If you just sit there and claim there is only one possible rationale to this situation then the hope that any kind of understanding can be reached to help do away with this kind of septic behavior, goes right out the window.

Not really. Because you are not actually presenting a rationale for the situation, or any kind of understanding. In real terms all you end up doing is communicating that you are a part of the issue. You may not mean to do that, but it is the end result.

It's very easy when these things happen to just pick up a pitchfork and join in screaming hysterically with the rest of the internet lynch mob. It's a bit harder to look at the situation rationally and try to find solutions.

Except you are not really doing that, you are engaging in the situation emotionally - with the fear that you are the one the "pitchforks" are aimed at.

The thing about looking at the situation rationally and trying to find solutions is you have to actually listen to what is being said, separate out the bullshit and recognise that the emotions of other people are valid. You cannot simply dismiss information by proclaiming it is being presented for the clicks, or being 'over-emotional' in its presentation.

Otherwise the "solutions" you end up proposing aren't really solutions, they are just trite means of avoiding the issue.

]If no one tries to understand who both sides of this issue are, what makes them tick, what is their motivation, then nothing about this situation is ever going to change. It just becomes yet another combination internet pity party and flame bait fest. Which I'm sure suits journalists just fine as it sure as hell ups the post count. But I have to ask, does it help solve a fucking thing? Did this do anything to help people like Zoe Quinn be safer from douche baggery on the internet?

And thus you demonstrate exactly what I mean by the idea that you are not actually engaging the issue rationally. There are things that can be done to make the situation better - but before we can get to that there needs to be an acknowledgement of what the situation actually is.

We could, I think at this point, start talking about real solutions. The trouble is, first we need to recognise what the problem really is.

Personally I think the problem is more to do with trolling than sexism at this point. While sexism is itself a major issue, solving it will first require dealing with the idiots whose response to anything they don't like is to try and destroy the people responsible for it.

So long as we have trolls driving developers out of the business for whatever reason, we can't really have the discussion on pretty much anything else.

We need to foil those trolls.

To that end, as a start, how about we ask The Escapist, which I think is an organisation we all reasonably trust, to set up a fund gamers can donate to where we send people who are targeted for online hate this way flowers?

It won't stop the trolls, Christians counter-protesting the Westborough Baptist Church hasn't stopped them, but it may just communicate in a real way that we disagree with the hate.

 

[Gilhelmi]

"The sword on my hip weeps at the thought of having to be drawn again. My sword is only drawn in defense, it knows this, but she does not like to fight. I know her pain, for I do not like to fight either. Oh Lord, when will you come? Your children are ragged and tired. But as before, so shall we again, persevere these days. Why do wicked people do evil? Why do the good ones stay silent? Oh Lord, give us strength to overcome these trials and birthing pains."

*An Anonymous Soldier*

I want to say something eloquent, I want to say something meaningful that would change peoples hearts and minds. But all I can think of is one simple question.

WHY?

I honestly do not understand any of this in the least. Be kind to others, Treat your neighbor with respect and love, act online as you would if you were face-to-face.

I liked the anonymity of the Internet, but I think that it is time to let that go.

 

[Deadcyde]

EDIT: turns out i've gotten a few warnings for harsh language. I prefer to be straight forward in my language but I can at least attempt to be more civil.

This whole thing reeks of attention seeking, that the whole saga was planned or at least purposely chased as a reaction.

That being said I won't accept responsibility for people acting immature. -Especially- in the places that are set aside for them to act immature in (the chans). Further more, going down that road is simply asking to have our freedom impuned for the sake of silencing a minority.

Lastly I think this whole thing takes away from actual sexual harrassment (put a female friend on your mic next time you play CS, listen to the crap she cops simply for speaking). Not just this "encouraged harrassment for attention" crap that half these supposed "victims" do for publicity.

(there, is that better?)

 

[Kuro Serpentina]

I liked Link's Crossbow Training

BLASPHEME-nah just kidding

anyway, quick note: folks who keep saying "but that's not MEEEEE" okay how about just, assuming, it's not you, and then not making a huge deal out of it

however, if your first impulse is to jump on the board to state that it's not you, then YES IT REALLY IS YOU because the entire video was about people who do that, instead of EITHER supporting OR not covering your ass reflexively

read that correctly? EITHER, OR.

it's not about you

I just said I enjoyed the game, not that I don't agree with Jim here
Heck, I'm actually one of the few who are glad Sarkesian is around, cause she got the discussion about thus sorta thing into the lime light
So, yeah... "If you wanna stay in your corner, stay in your fucking corner"

 

[Deadcyde]

Also, Schadenfraude is apart of human nature. Until it's not, trolls are going to exist.

That does not mean we should excuse their behavior. But neither does that mean that we can plead innocence when we purposely seek them out. Besides, these trolls feed on attention. Surely "do not feed the trolls" is sound advice still?

 

[Infernal Lawyer]

Coming from a guy who's in the "this doesn't affect me so I don't care so much" boat, I have to say a lot of people here are being quite daft. Noone's asking you to police the whole goddamn internet... All you have to do is stand up when you see people being jerks and say "that's not cool, dude" and, if the option is available, report them. It's not that fucking complicated. I mean, isn't that how it works in real life?

 

[Jennacide]

My only real problem with Jim's argument is that he didn't address the catch 22 we are currently in. We can't ignore the problem, because then it will never go away, but the ignorant assholes that do the kind of shit like Zoe suffered also aren't going to change no matter what we do and feed off the attention, negative or otherwise. So we should ignore them, but that also won't change anything. Even if every single person here were in agreement about the subject, which I think we mostly are, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme. The misogynist assholes that populate places like 4chan's /v/ aren't going to listen. They'll keep their pitchforks and torches at the ready for any subject.

It's a messy subject, with no good answer. It's why I've resorted to playing games almost entirely on my PC, so when I'm doing multiplayer it's either with friends only, or on a server where I know (or am) an admin. That way I'm not afraid to talk and hear jerks make sexist comments because my voice instantly reveals my gender. (I'm looking at you XBL, ie: the reason I pawned my 360)

Coming from a guy who's in the "this doesn't affect me so I don't care so much" boat, I have to say a lot of people here are being quite daft. Noone's asking you to police the whole goddamn internet... All you have to do is stand up when you see people being jerks and say "that's not cool, dude" and, if the option is available, report them. It's not that fucking complicated. I mean, isn't that how it works in real life?

The problem isn't places like these forums, where we can ban people that run their mouth off. The problem areas are places like 4chan, XBL, or any mostly anonymous location with no central control mechanism. Steam Greenlight was the problem for Zoe because there is SO MUCH posted there that it can't all be policed by Valve, and then the trolls took it to her email and phone. How do you stop them then? You can try to bring authorities in, but that rarely works sadly. And for every asshole you might actually catch, there are 10 to take their place.

 

[daxterx2005]

Link's crossbow training wasn't thaaaat bad.
You should have brought up the Phillips CDi games tho.

 

[Deadcyde]

My only real problem with Jim's argument is that he didn't address the catch 22 we are currently in. We can't ignore the problem, because then it will never go away, but the ignorant assholes that do the kind of shit like Zoe suffered also aren't going to change no matter what we do and feed off the attention, negative or otherwise. So we should ignore them, but that also won't change anything. Even if every single person here were in agreement about the subject, which I think we mostly are, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme. The misogynist assholes that populate places like 4chan's /v/ aren't going to listen. They'll keep their pitchforks and torches at the ready for any subject.

It's a messy subject, with no good answer. It's why I've resorted to playing games almost entirely on my PC, so when I'm doing multiplayer it's either with friends only, or on a server where I know (or am) an admin. That way I'm not afraid to talk and hear jerks make sexist comments because my voice instantly reveals my gender. (I'm looking at you XBL, ie: the reason I pawned my 360)

Coming from a guy who's in the "this doesn't affect me so I don't care so much" boat, I have to say a lot of people here are being quite daft. Noone's asking you to police the whole goddamn internet... All you have to do is stand up when you see people being jerks and say "that's not cool, dude" and, if the option is available, report them. It's not that fucking complicated. I mean, isn't that how it works in real life?

The problem isn't places like these forums, where we can ban people that run their mouth off. The problem areas are places like 4chan, XBL, or any mostly anonymous location with no central control mechanism. Steam Greenlight was the problem for Zoe because there is SO MUCH posted there that it can't all be policed by Valve, and then the trolls took it to her email and phone. How do you stop them then? You can try to bring authorities in, but that rarely works sadly. And for every asshole you might actually catch, there are 10 to take their place.

The "shit Zoe suffered", she brought on herself. It wasn't a case of the channers singling her out because she was a women. She went to their turf to extol a game she knew would antagonise them. The fact she is a woman isn't even an issue here, anyone would have caught the flak she did had they done what she had done. Sexualizing the issue is a cheap way of getting more publicity.

Those "problem areas" you speak of like the chans, they generally stay away if you stay away. Fact is they are known as places that attract anonymous trolling and have basically the internet equivilent of CAUTION: COFFEE IS HOT signs. If you choose to ignore that, you deserve to get burned. It sounds harsh, but you don't find places like 4chan by accidenty.

As for places like XBL, it's exponential growth. Places that attract more people, will attract more idiots. Tell me how many idiots bitching about your gender you had to deal with playing saaay, fable, or magic the gathering, or even res 6. PLay COD on the other hand, and well, you get the point. Fact is, no matter your gender, you're going to deal with idiots (see my schadenfreude comment), so please stop making it sound like you have the market cornered on them because you're female.

 

[Bruce]

My only real problem with Jim's argument is that he didn't address the catch 22 we are currently in. We can't ignore the problem, because then it will never go away, but the ignorant assholes that do the kind of shit like Zoe suffered also aren't going to change no matter what we do and feed off the attention, negative or otherwise. So we should ignore them, but that also won't change anything. Even if every single person here were in agreement about the subject, which I think we mostly are, it doesn't matter in the grand scheme. The misogynist assholes that populate places like 4chan's /v/ aren't going to listen. They'll keep their pitchforks and torches at the ready for any subject.

It's a messy subject, with no good answer. It's why I've resorted to playing games almost entirely on my PC, so when I'm doing multiplayer it's either with friends only, or on a server where I know (or am) an admin. That way I'm not afraid to talk and hear jerks make sexist comments because my voice instantly reveals my gender. (I'm looking at you XBL, ie: the reason I pawned my 360)

Coming from a guy who's in the "this doesn't affect me so I don't care so much" boat, I have to say a lot of people here are being quite daft. Noone's asking you to police the whole goddamn internet... All you have to do is stand up when you see people being jerks and say "that's not cool, dude" and, if the option is available, report them. It's not that fucking complicated. I mean, isn't that how it works in real life?

The problem isn't places like these forums, where we can ban people that run their mouth off. The problem areas are places like 4chan, XBL, or any mostly anonymous location with no central control mechanism. Steam Greenlight was the problem for Zoe because there is SO MUCH posted there that it can't all be policed by Valve, and then the trolls took it to her email and phone. How do you stop them then? You can try to bring authorities in, but that rarely works sadly. And for every asshole you might actually catch, there are 10 to take their place.

The "shit Zoe suffered", she brought on herself. It wasn't a case of the channers singling her out because she was a women. She went to their turf to extol a game she knew would antagonise them. The fact she is a woman isn't even an issue here, anyone would have caught the flak she did had they done what she had done. Sexualizing the issue is a cheap way of getting more publicity.

Those "problem areas" you speak of like the chans, they generally stay away if you stay away. Fact is they are known as places that attract anonymous trolling and have basically the internet equivilent of CAUTION: COFFEE IS HOT signs. If you choose to ignore that, you deserve to get burned. It sounds harsh, but you don't find places like 4chan by accidenty.

As for places like XBL, it's exponential growth. Places that attract more people, will attract more idiots. Tell me how many idiots bitching about your gender you had to deal with playing saaay, fable, or magic the gathering, or even res 6. PLay COD on the other hand, and well, you get the point. Fact is, no matter your gender, you're going to deal with idiots (see my schadenfreude comment), so please stop making it sound like you have the market cornered on them because you're female.

Everyone who said that what Jim was talking about wasn't part of The Escapist community - here's a prime example of you being exactly wrong.

 

[Deadcyde]

Everyone who said that what Jim was talking about wasn't part of The Escapist community - here's a prime example of you being exactly wrong.

Not everyone can be as Rock Paper shotgun, huffington post, ultra conservative over politically correct as yourself.

I mean surely personal responsibility should never be as important as percieved sexual harrassment. /sarcasm

The fact it was a woman was inconsequential, it was ammo for insults, had it been a bald guy it would have been bald jokes, had it been a fat guy, you guessed it. It also doesn't address the fact that she went to known troll places. What the hell for if not to kick a hornets nest?

Had she put the game up on greenlight without going to the chan, what do you suppose would have happened?

EDIT: The truely disturbing thing is no one is asking, "okay, how did this start?" "how did these people get so annnoyed over this game as to harrass her?" "was it really because she was a woman or was that simply ammo to her juvinile attackers" "is this really a commentary on our community or is it the same idiots who've been acting like idiots all along" "how is this even gender based? Is it just one idiots comment?" "where is the source material on this?""Is any of this verified?"

On the upside, her game is getting heaps of publicity!

 

[Bruce]

Everyone who said that what Jim was talking about wasn't part of The Escapist community - here's a prime example of you being exactly wrong.

Not everyone can be as Rock Paper shotgun, huffington post, ultra conservative over politically correct as yourself.

I mean surely personal responsibility should never be as important as percieved sexual harrassment. /sarcasm

The fact it was a woman was inconsequential, it was ammo for insults, had it been a bald guy it would have been bald jokes, had it been a fat guy, you guessed it. It also doesn't address the fact that she went to known troll places. What the hell for if not to kick a hornets nest?

Had she put the game up on greenlight without going to the chan, what do you suppose would have happened?

No, some people, AKA you, evidently have to make shit up in order to blame someone for being harassed. Do you have any evidence for your claim? No, but you'll make it anyway because that allows you to feel like it is all her fault.

What you have posted illustrates 100% that yes, the problem Jim is talking about in his video is present within The Escapist Community. You have done exactly what he was talking about and you are a part of this community.

 

[Deadcyde]

Everyone who said that what Jim was talking about wasn't part of The Escapist community - here's a prime example of you being exactly wrong.

Not everyone can be as Rock Paper shotgun, huffington post, ultra conservative over politically correct as yourself.

I mean surely personal responsibility should never be as important as percieved sexual harrassment. /sarcasm

The fact it was a woman was inconsequential, it was ammo for insults, had it been a bald guy it would have been bald jokes, had it been a fat guy, you guessed it. It also doesn't address the fact that she went to known troll places. What the hell for if not to kick a hornets nest?

Had she put the game up on greenlight without going to the chan, what do you suppose would have happened?

No, some people, AKA you, evidently have to make shit up in order to blame someone for being harassed. Do you have any evidence for your claim? No, but you'll make it anyway because that allows you to feel like it is all her fault.

What you have posted illustrates 100% that yes, the problem Jim is talking about in his video is present within The Escapist Community. You have done exactly what he was talking about and you are a part of this community.

Please enlighten me on to what i made up, as well as enlightening me on evidence of the claims that kicked this off in the first place. All i've seen is a couple of twitter posts and chan screencaps without context and a greenlight conversation that seems to have started elsewhere. So time to put your money where your mouth is. You have no proof she didn't antagonize them and is reaping the whirlwind. None.

Otherwise, what Jim describes is the destruction of personal responsibility. That it's our responsibility to deal with trolls, not their own. As well as the fact that those who antagonise them are without blame.. So sorry if i disagree.

 

[Bruce]

Everyone who said that what Jim was talking about wasn't part of The Escapist community - here's a prime example of you being exactly wrong.

Not everyone can be as Rock Paper shotgun, huffington post, ultra conservative over politically correct as yourself.

I mean surely personal responsibility should never be as important as percieved sexual harrassment. /sarcasm

The fact it was a woman was inconsequential, it was ammo for insults, had it been a bald guy it would have been bald jokes, had it been a fat guy, you guessed it. It also doesn't address the fact that she went to known troll places. What the hell for if not to kick a hornets nest?

Had she put the game up on greenlight without going to the chan, what do you suppose would have happened?

No, some people, AKA you, evidently have to make shit up in order to blame someone for being harassed. Do you have any evidence for your claim? No, but you'll make it anyway because that allows you to feel like it is all her fault.

What you have posted illustrates 100% that yes, the problem Jim is talking about in his video is present within The Escapist Community. You have done exactly what he was talking about and you are a part of this community.

Please enlighten me on to what i made up, as well as enlightening me on evidence of the claims that kicked this off in the first place. All i've seen is a couple of twitter posts and chan screencaps without context and a greenlight conversation that seems to have started elsewhere. So time to put your money where your mouth is.

So you admit it - your claim that she put the game on 4chan herself is 100% made-up. Good day sir.

 

[Deadcyde]

..... you're kidding? that's what you're arguing?

Well first of all, never mentioned 4chan as the place she put the game on. Second: never said she put the game on the chans only that she went to these places. Third: it seems that your only point of arguement is to say that I made up that she put the game on 4chan, not my actual point regarding that theres no proof that she didn't intentionally antagonize these people, or that the fact she was a woman was inconsequential, or that the source material on these things is sparse as to only be her side of the story or whatever casts her in a favorable light.

And to play devils advocate, even if that one point you seem determined to undermine wasn't true the rest of the point stands.

So you've succeeding in bringing the conversation exactly no further then where it was before you talked, well done sir.

EDIT: also, I imagine why most people say "what did you do to piss them off" first is because they imagine themselves throwing the hateful comments and then based upon your response and their own motivations they would judge whether the comments/retorts/whatever was warrented or not. Is this wrong? Well it has a negative impact on the victim. However as everyone percives themselves as the good guy it means that the "victim" will always feel slighted by it. Yet on the other hand, if we were to simply believe whatever the apparent victim said, then that means we would be, simply put, gullible. So I put to you people who like to use the word "victim blamers" what do you propose to solve this dilemma?

 

[Bruce]

..... you're kidding? that's what you're arguing?

Well first of all, never mentioned 4chan as the place she put the game on. Second: never said she put the game on the chans only that she went to these places. Third: it seems that your only point of arguement is to say that I made up that she put the game on 4chan, not my actual point regarding that theres no proof that she didn't intentionally antagonize these people, or that the fact she was a woman was inconsequential, or that the source material on these things is sparse as to only be her side of the story or whatever casts her in a favorable light.

And to play devils advocate, even if that one point you seem determined to undermine wasn't true the rest of the point stands.

So you've succeeding in bringing the conversation exactly no further then where it was before you talked, well done sir.

The basis of your argument is that she wouldn't have gotten harassed if she didn't go to the chans right?

Yet you cannot demonstrate that she went to chans before the harassment campaign began. You do not have any evidence for anything you claim.

You said it yourself:

All i've seen is a couple of twitter posts and chan screencaps without context and a greenlight conversation that seems to have started elsewhere.

We do not generally assume guilt on the part of the aggrieved party. You actually have to show that she did what you say she did or your point is moot.

 

[Deadcyde]

..... you're kidding? that's what you're arguing?

Well first of all, never mentioned 4chan as the place she put the game on. Second: never said she put the game on the chans only that she went to these places. Third: it seems that your only point of arguement is to say that I made up that she put the game on 4chan, not my actual point regarding that theres no proof that she didn't intentionally antagonize these people, or that the fact she was a woman was inconsequential, or that the source material on these things is sparse as to only be her side of the story or whatever casts her in a favorable light.

And to play devils advocate, even if that one point you seem determined to undermine wasn't true the rest of the point stands.

So you've succeeding in bringing the conversation exactly no further then where it was before you talked, well done sir.

The basis of your argument is that she wouldn't have gotten harassed if she didn't go to the chans right?

Yet you cannot demonstrate that she went to chans before the harassment campaign began. You do not have any evidence for anything you claim.

You said it yourself:

All i've seen is a couple of twitter posts and chan screencaps without context and a greenlight conversation that seems to have started elsewhere.

We do not generally assume guilt on the part of the aggrieved party. You actually have to show that she did what you say she did or your point is moot.

Yet you assume she is the aggreived party, without proof this could be anything from a publicity stunt with no players except those performing a preassigned duty, to a shit storm she brought upon herself antagonizing misanthropes intentionally. Even if i misinterpreted the series of events based upon the sketchy evidence that exists the onus is upon you to provide proof of the original claim. Which is that this is what she said it is.

Please stop acting like you're speaking for anyone but yourself. It's creating a false dichotomy of us and them and ignoring the fact that the opinions on this forum are hardly polar... for instance. Without proof I don't believe her,that this could be a publicity stunt, or simply the same two mouth breathers apparently being cast as examples of our community but that doesn't mean I condone nor tolerate toxic trolls or sexism. So i'm sure we agree on some points but not on others.

 

[Deadcyde]

it's a cut and paste from wizardchan but here you have it.. she was there first.

Anonymous 12/14/13 (Sat) 19:51:42 No.11220
>>11153
>I'm just surprised because there's no evidence this raid even happened.
THIS
There was a thread about that game on v9k but it died few days ago.
The only thing she posted were two screens from that thread but it wasn't harassing, it was on our site, we weren't insulting her on her twitter, in person or something. Then she said someone called and masturbated to a phone? What the fuck. She came up with this story for publicity, suddenly all internet sends her good words, people vote on her game on steam and wish us death.


Also look - I'm now writing "Phil Fish sucks cocks and chokes on them, his game is shit and I wish he would die". Is that harassing? Will there be articles about it? No there won't, because he's not a female. He will not make a story about "muh matriarchy" how he as a male felt "harassed". And if he did nobody would care because people care only when women feel insulted.
[\quote]

http://wizardchan.org/meta/res/11103.html theres the link if you want to check the source

best i could find.. Now what bothers me is if you sort through the occasional neckbeard comment you get a real sense of a bunch of randoms rubbing their heads and shrugging as to what the fuck actually happened. I guess we caught our culprits right?

Publicity stunt.

 

[Bruce]

..... you're kidding? that's what you're arguing?

Well first of all, never mentioned 4chan as the place she put the game on. Second: never said she put the game on the chans only that she went to these places. Third: it seems that your only point of arguement is to say that I made up that she put the game on 4chan, not my actual point regarding that theres no proof that she didn't intentionally antagonize these people, or that the fact she was a woman was inconsequential, or that the source material on these things is sparse as to only be her side of the story or whatever casts her in a favorable light.

And to play devils advocate, even if that one point you seem determined to undermine wasn't true the rest of the point stands.

So you've succeeding in bringing the conversation exactly no further then where it was before you talked, well done sir.

The basis of your argument is that she wouldn't have gotten harassed if she didn't go to the chans right?

Yet you cannot demonstrate that she went to chans before the harassment campaign began. You do not have any evidence for anything you claim.

You said it yourself:

All i've seen is a couple of twitter posts and chan screencaps without context and a greenlight conversation that seems to have started elsewhere.

We do not generally assume guilt on the part of the aggrieved party. You actually have to show that she did what you say she did or your point is moot.

Yet you assume she is the aggreived party, without proof this could be anything from a publicity stunt with no players except those performing a preassigned duty, to a shit storm she brought upon herself antagonizing misanthropes intentionally. Even if i misinterpreted the series of events based upon the sketchy evidence that exists the onus is upon you to provide proof of the original claim. Which is that this is what she said it is.

Please stop acting like you're speaking for anyone but yourself. It's creating a false dichotomy of us and them and ignoring the fact that the opinions on this forum are hardly polar... for instance. Without proof I don't believe her,that this could be a publicity stunt, or simply the same two mouth breathers apparently being cast as examples of our community but that doesn't mean I condone nor tolerate toxic trolls or sexism. So i'm sure we agree on some points but not on others.

I am going on the coverage presented.

EG:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/130525-Depression-Quest-Dev-Faces-Harassment-after-Steam-Submission

You're by the looks of it, just making shit up. Otherwise show me the evidence you have for your accusations.