Jimquisition: Tomodachi Strife

[xaszatm]

Ah. Odd.

Was that an actual part of the game, or where they just messing around with it?

Yes, this was an actual part of the game. Nintendo of America has announced that they have no plans of removing it from the game.

Just checked again and, yeah, unless I'm missing or misunderstanding something, this is how the whole thing went:

- Nintendo releases the game with the gay marriage thing
- The devs patch it away because it wasn't intentional
- The press starts going on about Nintendo being against homosexuality
- Nintendo responds, saying "this isn't what we were trying to say. We were just fixing a glitch"

Basically, the fault lies with whoever moron thought that patching gay relationship out of the game was necessary

Actually here's how the whole thing went:

-Nintendo releases Tomadachi Life
-Players realize that transferring Mii's from the DS Tomadachi results in data leakage and memory corruption
-Nintendo releases a patch fixing said error
-An Article notes this patch and comments that some players are using cross-dressing to get around no homosexual
marriages within the game
-About a year and a few months later, Nintendo announces Tomadachi Life for a worldwide release
-Tye, a homosexual gamer, realizes that Tomadachi Life doesn't have homosexual relations
-Tye starts Miiquality, a reasonable mature campaign to allow homosexual marriage in the next game, if not this one. He
also emphasizes to not boycott the game
-Nintendo responds to Miiquality with well-meaning, but idiotic statment
-Several websites pick up on Miiquaity and the earlier article and twist everything around. Stating that Nintendo patched
homosexual marriage out of the game (when they didn't) and tells consumers to boycott the game and that Nintendo is evil
-Nintendo responds with much better statement, but damage is already done.

OT: Where's that facepalm picture? Because that's me right now. What ever happened to using first party sources to get your info? It has discussed multiple times on this very website, that part of controversy was a non-issue caused by a translation error. When IGN of all sites is more investigated than anyone else, a serious problem has occurred.

Alright, Nintendo IS wrong for not including same sexual marriages in the Tomadachi series. No one (OK, pedantic people, very few of the people here) is arguing about that. And I applaud Miiquality for his well-meaning, mature campaign to fix such a travesty. My issue comes from the lies and outright yellow journalism displayed everywhere for the sole purpose of painting Nintendo as a mustache twirling bigot. If you have issue with Nintendo's stance, you don't need to add any more bullshit. Talk about the stance. Adding lies only serves to misinform to public and to make yourselves look like villains in the long run.

 

[NightsOwl]

So, pretty much what this is saying is that Gay relationships should be in any game with relationships by default now?

I agree. And I feel it should be the standard by now too. Even if I'm not gay myself or even if I am, I might get a bit of enjoyment seeing the main character of a game swing both ways. Really, it only helps make everyone happy, unless they're homophobic, which at that point, they can go shove it.

Inclusion of every party cannot hurt if it's a party that does no harm.

I have no problem with inclusion in games, It doesn't hurt anyone. To each their own. However there are still a great many cultures and people in this world that find homosexuality to be an abomination. At this point all inclusive relationships should NOT be default. It's as perfectly okay to be intolerant of same sex couples as it is to tolerate or support same sex couples as long as you don't act out on your prejudices.

Right now there are sectors of gay community who go out and attack people who do not support Gays. They mainly attack through social media and news outlets. The result is a call to boycott and/or public shaming, it's essentially a public lynching without a rope. This is discrimination and is just as wrong as a company firing an employee because they were gay.

Did Nintendo handle the situation poorly, yes. They could have made a statement that didn't ruffle so many feathers.

I agree, I was thinking a bit closed minded when I was only thinking of Japan, the UK/EU, and US. You have a point about cultures being massively different, and in that respect I don't really know what to say. I'm the type of person who's okay with gay marriage or whatever not being in games or being in games. I just think it adds more choice, so if it's not in, I don't mind. In games where you're essentially the main character, I can see why, but games with a preset character with a name, personality and everything else, I can see why it wouldn't be in something like that.

I'm on the side that if it gets to the point where it is the default standard somewhere down the line, I don't mind. As of right now, you're correct, most of the world cannot handle it. And that's a pity that some people cannot enjoy a game they want, because a company may not add the option in because of being unable to sell it in other territories.

I think I'm just rambling. Sorry for the TL;DR. x_x

 

[xaszatm]

So how long until someone throws up the whole 'danger of inclusion' argument like what happened with Mass Effect?

"If we allow the Gay Tomadachis, then we have to allow PEDOPHILE Tomadachis as well!" or what not?

That would be if Fox News got involved. Those dipshit asshole associate anything gay with pedophilia. They're the most ignorantly broadcast "news" channel in America.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the "We didn't intend any social commentary" bit of the apology directed at people saying Nintendo is homophobic?

Press: "Nintendo is against homosexuality!"
Nintendo: "We did not intend to say any such thing"

You indeed are incorrect. There were many homosexual gamers who'd found out that they and their partners could not get married in the game or have a relationship with their Mii's. This is a game advertised as "Your friends, Your drama, Your life." The fans created a petition and got the word out asking Nintendo to include same-sex marriages within the game. The part you're quoting was a response to that petition, to the fans asking for the feature. So no, this isn't a to-press statement because Nintendo was getting flack, this is a statement by Nintendo to it's [now probably significantly smaller] fanbase asking for a feature in a game and being told that their lifestyle is nothing more than "social commentary".

Then correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Boycotting the game the OPPOSITE effect Miiquality wanted? Or are we to ignore the campaign from now on beyond saying it happened. And yes, Nintendo's original response was at best poorly worded. But most people who were part of the Miiquality campaign, including the guy who made the campaign, were realists who realized that putting the content into THIS game would be unlikely.

 

[xaszatm]

With people calling Nintendo bigots. I'm getting tired of it.

Nintendo is making Electronic Arts look like progressives. This after I've personally been banned from the EA forums (by an actual EA employee) for publicly condoning gay rights. Anyone who makes EA look good is clearly bigoted. And good luck trying to change my opinion on the matter.

...OK, care to explain WHY Nintendo is clearly bigoted? I'm not even going to bother to attempt to change such a statement without some context first. (And yes, to answer your question, I'm clearly insane).

 

[Dragonbums]

With people calling Nintendo bigots. I'm getting tired of it.

Nintendo is making Electronic Arts look like progressives. This after I've personally been banned from the EA forums (by an actual EA employee) for publicly condoning gay rights. Anyone who makes EA look good is clearly bigoted. And good luck trying to change my opinion on the matter.

How exactly? They told Miiquality that it was basically too late for this game but they will do it in future installments if feedback was positive. They never told Miiquality people they would never do it in the history of ever.

 

[RA92]

When you are exporting your game to a different country, you have to take into account the sensibilities and cultural norms of that region. Don't they have an entire American branch to handle that?

For the most part NOA can not make changes to a game without approval from NOJ. The only exception I can think of would be if bringing the game over had caused some game breaking bug and it needed to be reworked or something.

Hmmm, point taken. But my greater argument was that the NA division should have worded the original message more carefully, since it's their responsibility to act as a bridge between NA and the mothership in Japan. Even if the Japanese division is tone-deaf due to their cultural conservatism, the North American division doesn't have that excuse.

Even if they didn't want to patch it back in, fine. But they, especially Nintendo America, shouldn't have implied that gay relationship is some kind of an outlier in their original message. That's what pissed people off.

 

[Dragonbums]

Then correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Boycotting the game the OPPOSITE effect Miiquality wanted?

It was definitely the opposite of what Tye wanted in his Miiquality campaign video. It's clear who watched the whole thing and who simply stopped at "Nintendo didn't implement gay marriage in Tomodachi Life" and went to their blogs and news articles to write the latest click bait headlines. He said not to do that. He said do hashtag campaigns on Twitter and Facebok, in the review section of the game state you want gay equality in the next installment, or simply write a letter to Nintendo stating such. Nowhere in that campaign did he call Nintendo bigots, anti-homosexual, or any other mudslinging name that people all over the web came up with towards Nintendo this month.

 

[Strain42]

This game looks terrifying and I can't even tell if it looks like it would be fun...

...that's really all I have to say here.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Ah. Odd.

Was that an actual part of the game, or where they just messing around with it?

Based on the Direct that seems to be something you can do in game. You can transfers your current Mii's (and alter their voice) or make female/male Miis (depending on the relationship your going for) and have them look like the opposite sex- transfer them over to the game, adjust the voices accordingly and have yourself a good ol time.

Huh. So does changing the outfits/voices actually change the gender then? Otherwise it sounds like they do have gay marriage, but you have to cross dress for it.

The issue is that even if he was just focusing on the statement it reinforces the increasingly popular and very bad notion that if "If your not for us, your against us". Especially when it comes to clash with other regions and cultures that don't give a shit about Western ideals. In the case of Nintendo they make a game that is only for a Japanese audience. Japan is a place where gay marriage is illegal. As such it comes to no surprise that they don't put that feature in the game.
As for the statement itself the original statement before their "apology" statement was basically the same fucking thing. They weren't going to do it in this installment but they were going to do it in later installments.

I see what you mean, though I think Jim put Nintendo in a fairer light than that. He talked about how Nintendo of America said no to adding it in our version (and yeah I know they do answer to Nintendo in Japan). That at the very least shows they don't want to make such a change for a different audience.

They made changes already to the game for the version to the U.S. form what I've heard (changing the Sumo game into a football one, ect).

So saying it's odd they wouldn't make that change as well. While Japan has no legal gay marriages, it's not as though they are actively trying to not have gay people exist in media (as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong please).

Like Jim put it. The issue is that the excursion just comes off as ignorant. Coupled with that statement they made, it can easily be seen as something worse. By trying to say neutral with the use of exclusion, they just come off looking bad, despite their intentions.

Also, this isn't the first time a game has chosen to not include gay people. Thus why Jim focuses on how it's still such a taboo to simply include them.

I mean- where the fuck were these people when you couldn't have gay marriage in FE:Awakening? Seriously.

FE is Fire Emblem, right? I've only just recently been made aware of those games. Never played them.
So I can't say much about it.

The comment I heard from someone about it is that each character is individually created to be unique, so people are more forgiving.

But with Tomodachi Life, people believe that since the Mii is suppose to be "you" (Kind of, but not really).

Spoiler: video explains

It comes of as them saying "YOU can play the game, but YOU can't be gay in it." Kind of like how the Mass Effect 3 ending got more hate than the Deus ex: H.R.'s ending. Even though they were similar (and really, Deus ex H.R. was worse ;p).

 

[Tanneseph]

That was an incredibly articulate argument of -why- that kind of handling it is an issue, with some great examples. Cheers to you for it.

 

[Symion]

It's amusing when Jim gets something so wrong.

1) It was very clearly a bug that was attached to a value being assigned that could potentially make the game unstable
2) Nintendo saying the removal of the bug was not social commentary on their view of Marriage *did not* happen in a vacuum. It was directly accused of patching the bug out as a form of social commentary when it clearly wasn't and they simply responded. If thousands of people started claiming your company was anti-gay I would hope you issue a statement that was false if your company isn't.
3) Yes, it very much still is a statement of stance on an issue to include Gay Marriage wholesale in a game...in Japan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Japan Does it suck that it still is? Yes. But, don't claim that doing it is the norm in a country where it still very much is not so.
4) Gay rights are a thing that should be supported wholesale but this idea that homosexuality has always been the norm and its all the heterosexuals stressing out about that are weird is absolute bullshit. Homosexuality is abnormal by the very definition of the word but its absolutely fine to be abnormal in that sense. The fact that I spent a whole day staring at a panel of flashing points of light is abnormal in a purely physical sense for the human body (hence the headache afterwards) but is it my right to do so? Your damned right it is.

 

[Zero Serenity]

Did Jim just admit to being Bisexual? Explains his love for Commander Shepard now doesn't it...

Yeah, he's mentioned his sexuality before in some of his written articles, usually he just makes light of it in these videos.

Got a link? I'm now curious as to his writings.

 

[xaszatm]

Ah. Odd.

Was that an actual part of the game, or where they just messing around with it?

Based on the Direct that seems to be something you can do in game. You can transfers your current Mii's (and alter their voice) or make female/male Miis (depending on the relationship your going for) and have them look like the opposite sex- transfer them over to the game, adjust the voices accordingly and have yourself a good ol time.

Huh. So does changing the outfits/voices actually change the gender then? Otherwise it sounds like they do have gay marriage, but you have to cross dress for it.

The issue is that even if he was just focusing on the statement it reinforces the increasingly popular and very bad notion that if "If your not for us, your against us". Especially when it comes to clash with other regions and cultures that don't give a shit about Western ideals. In the case of Nintendo they make a game that is only for a Japanese audience. Japan is a place where gay marriage is illegal. As such it comes to no surprise that they don't put that feature in the game.
As for the statement itself the original statement before their "apology" statement was basically the same fucking thing. They weren't going to do it in this installment but they were going to do it in later installments.

I see what you mean, though I think Jim put Nintendo in a fairer light than that. He talked about how Nintendo of America said no to adding it in our version (and yeah I know they do answer to Nintendo in Japan). That at the very least shows they don't want to make such a change for a different audience.

They made changes already to the game for the version to the U.S. form what I've heard (changing the Sumo game into a football one, ect).

So saying it's odd they wouldn't make that change as well. While Japan has no legal gay marriages, it's not as though they are actively trying to not have gay people exist in media (as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong please).

Like Jim put it. The issue is that the excursion just comes off as ignorant. Coupled with that statement they made, it can easily be seen as something worse. By trying to say neutral with the use of exclusion, they just come off looking bad, despite their intentions.

Also, this isn't the first time a game has chosen to not include gay people. Thus why Jim focuses on how it's still such a taboo to simply include them.

I mean- where the fuck were these people when you couldn't have gay marriage in FE:Awakening? Seriously.

FE is Fire Emblem, right? I've only just recently been made aware of those games. Never played them.
So I can't say much about it.

The comment I heard from someone about it is that each character is individually created to be unique, so people are more forgiving.

But with Tomodachi Life, people believe that since the Mii is suppose to be "you" (Kind of, but not really).

Spoiler: video explains

It comes of as them saying "YOU can play the game, but YOU can't be gay in it." Kind of like how the Mass Effect 3 ending got more hate than the Deus ex: H.R.'s ending. Even though they were similar (and really, Deus ex H.R. was worse ;p).

To answer the top question, no, it didn't change genders at all.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

Nintendo is making Electronic Arts look like progressives. This after I've personally been banned from the EA forums (by an actual EA employee) for publicly condoning gay rights. Anyone who makes EA look good is clearly bigoted. And good luck trying to change my opinion on the matter.

They've had a prominent gay character in the Mario franchise since 1988.
Two, in fact. Who are implied to be dating each other.

You can have your opinion, bro, but it's built on a pretty weak foundation. I did this in another thread and from 1990-1999 I managed to name around 6 gay characters in Nintendo games.
It's more tragic that Nintendo were saying how they were thinking of including it in the next release of the series, which is totally going to happen now, they certainly aren't going to just say 'f*ck it' and keep the series Japan exclusive.

-snip-

YOU get all the internet cookies I can find for actually finding 1st party sources. It is a pretty sad fucking turn of events when IGN is more journalistically intact than Jim.

 

[Dragonbums]

Huh. So does changing the outfits/voices actually change the gender then? Otherwise it sounds like they do have gay marriage, but you have to cross dress for it.

It doesn't change the gender. The male sounding and dressing Mii is still a female in code. But on the outside she looks and sounds like a dude (Although I'm sure the particular actions may still have female attributes)

I see what you mean, though I think Jim put Nintendo in a fairer light than that. He talked about how Nintendo of America said no to adding it in our version (and yeah I know they do answer to Nintendo in Japan). That at the very least shows they don't want to make such a change for a different audience.

But the game is also a year old and Nintendo Treehouse do not have the time or resources to make such a big change like that in such a short time span.

They made changes already to the game for the version to the U.S. form what I've heard (changing the Sumo game into a football one, ect).

Those are basic translation adjustments. The thing with gay couples is a lot more than that. Unless you want them to do a half ass job they would have to recode the game (so that horrid bug doesn't rear it's ugly head again.) add in different dialogue, scenarios, actions, etc. to make it good. Again, that is simply something NoA doesn't have time for. Their resources would be better spent simply doing it for the next installment of the franchise.

So saying it's odd they wouldn't make that change as well. While Japan has no legal gay marriages, it's not as though they are actively trying to not have gay people exist in media (as far as I know. Correct me if I'm wrong please).

It would be really naive of any of us to think that nobody would have any problem with the game had they of allowed both gay and straight couples but only the straight couples could marry.

Like Jim put it. The issue is that the excursion just comes off as ignorant. Coupled with that statement they made, it can easily be seen as something worse. By trying to say neutral with the use of exclusion, they just come off looking bad, despite their intentions.

It only came off as bad for people looking for something to complain about in the first place. The statement could of been worded differently, but bigotry and anti homosexuality isn't the first thing that comes to my mind.

Also, this isn't the first time a game has chosen to not include gay people. Thus why Jim focuses on how it's still such a taboo to simply include them.

The same could also be said for skin tones as well. Animal crossing has yet to allow players to be completely black or dark skinned since inception and yet I haven't heard a peep from the ethnic minority group call Nintendo racists.

FE is Fire Emblem, right? I've only just recently been made aware of those games. Never played them.
So I can't say much about it.

The comment I heard from someone about it is that each character is individually created to be unique, so people are more forgiving.

Yup. FE= Fire Emblem

But you can still basically pair up anybody with anybody. Even ones you don't think would necessarily go together realistically.

But with Tomodachi Life, people believe that since the Mii is suppose to be "you" (Kind of, but not really).

Spoiler: video explains

I see that more of a huge oversight than outright malice on my part. But like I said, the Japanese fanbase found a stupidly easy work around for the entire thing that it was basically a non issue for them.

Kind of like how the Mass Effect 3 ending got more hate than the Deus ex: H.R.'s ending. Even though they were similar (and really, Deus ex H.R. was worse ;p).

A lot of the anger came from the fact that Casey Hudson stated that the endings before release where going to be the exact opposite of...well..what we got.

Also DLC milking.

 

[Dragonbums]

Two, in fact. Who are implied to be dating each other.

Try married. It's clear that Yoshi like it and put the ring on it.

YOU get all the internet cookies I can find for actually finding 1st party sources. It is a pretty sad fucking turn of events when IGN is more journalistically intact than Jim.

I'm gonna try to give a really big benefit of the doubt and state that he made this video long before all the facts showed up...but that's pushing it. Honestly the article in question came out pretty early in the controversy and I expected Jim and others prior to the initial flames to look into it as opposed to ignoring it and fanning the flames.

It's not like the article is obscure either. The thing has like over 400 fucking comments on it.

 

[Olas]

Just checked again and, yeah, unless I'm missing or misunderstanding something, this is how the whole thing went:

- Nintendo releases the game with the gay marriage thing
- The devs patch it away because it wasn't intentional
- The press starts going on about Nintendo being against homosexuality
- Nintendo responds, saying "this isn't what we were trying to say. We were just fixing a glitch"

Basically, the fault lies with whoever moron thought that patching gay relationship out of the game was necessary

This would be true if the glitch simply allowed gay relationships as an option and only did that, but that's not how it worked. The glitch caused imported Mii character data to become scrambled, causing characters to be randomly reassigned relationships, same sex relationships being a possible permutation. It wasn't something players had any control over, and it also affected things like marriage status. Also, because the game was not programmed to handle these types of relationships it meant that male characters in same sex relationships could get pregnant. Most importantly though, this bug made it impossible for players to save the game or continue past a certain point.

In short, not patching the game would have meant leaving it in an irresponsibly broken state. There was really no choice in the matter for Nintendo. You can get mad at them for not choosing to include same sex relationships to begin with[footnote]Although this was true of the previous iteration, and did not cause controversy[/footnote], and for the whole PR disaster later, but the glitch and it's subsequent patching is not a meaningful indication of anything.

You know, it's funny how almost none of these details were included in any of the news stories covering this whole debacle. I guess a story about Nintendo mundanely fixing a bug in their game wouldn't have drawn as many clicks.

 

[carnex]

As he does when he can't write episode based on facts he reinterprets someone's words and then writes about that.

Nintendo didn't make social commentary. Just because they didn't include it does not it make it social commentary. They just didn't program it in. Just like they didn't write in bestiality, diseases, soccer, boxing, space exploration. Now you are in your right to ask for it and to say you wont buy it because of it. But shame someone just because he didn't enable what is important to you is just as damn bigoted as those who prevent homosexuals from using their services.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter how wrong or right it is. And as much as it hurts someone one is in his own right to put out product in state that that one sees fit to be judged by public as long as it doesn't break any laws. Just because it's against what you stand for doesn't give you right to judge person and to shame it into submission. You want the right of free speech? Then respect it for others. Be critical, don't shame. It's just a common sense.

The way you twisted the meaning of the words makes you as bad as any extremist out there.

P.S. As far as I can find info, putting same sex relationships in the game (or fixing the glitch as you ignorantly state) would mean redoing a whole lot of code and months of work to address new relationship possibility. Sorry, but someone thought it wasn't cost efficient, and I would have to agree on that. This is business after all, not government.

 

[Pebkio]

What it takes to allow marriage in a video game: Specific coding and maybe an animated extra scene with placement markers in a character file.

What it takes to allow marriage but also exclude same sex couplings: The same stuff as before + some extra code that blocks the events under certain circumstances because you don't want gays to get married in your game.

Which one of those is taking up more time and energy?

 

[xaszatm]

What it takes to allow marriage in a video game: Specific coding and maybe an animated extra scene with placement markers in a character file.

What it takes to allow marriage but also exclude same sex couplings: The same stuff as before + some extra code that blocks the events under certain circumstances because you don't want gays to get married in your game.

Which one of those is taking up more time and energy?

And you have proof of this where? Have you even bothered to look at the game or are you using your knowledge of other games cloud you to the code of this one. Tomadachi Life is different from most other Sims games in that you do not have complete control over the character. You literally just throw Mii's with different personalities into the game and see how they act out. The entire game is based around the various Miis interacting with one another, going on dates, forming relationships, marrying, and having children. And you're saying that it will be an easy fix? Care to provide proof?