Jimquisition: When The Starscreams Kill Used Games

[BrionJames]

More or less sums up the apprehensions I have with this system. The PS4 has been kind of coy with its answers regarding used games, unless something definite has been announced recently that I missed. Unfortunately, because of the mass market appeal that the Xbone has gone for even if Microsoft alienates a lot of its "game-centric" users, it'll still get business from the general audience type folk who like having a machine that can integrate with your PC, stream video from several different popular sources, and has that stupid motion sensor for idiotic dancing games. That aside, Jim kind of looks like British Kingpin.

 

[QUINTIX]

Pot, meet kettle.

Tu quo quo, look it up
No where in this conversation did I quote Microsoft. I paraphrased Harrison & quoted another escapist article that you cited. Edited prior post to make clear I did not simply read the end of said article, but I bet you'll still find some reason to believe I did not read it.

You're projecting: you're assuming what I have and have not read, and imagining me saying things I did not say. Everything is on record here, and I'm certain a third party who chooses to suffer through this debate would confirm what I say about you to be true.

And for the record, I did not refuse anything. I stated it was not necessary, and you have done an excellent job of proving that for me. Please take your appeal to "the conversation" elsewhere. You've proved it to be as much a fallacy as any listed in a logic textbook.

 

[misg]

I can't even remember the last game I rented...

You can still rent games?

(This comment was meant as a joke to emphasize what you said.)

Actually, I don't think I've EVER rented a game, or even seen a place that still does rental...

I think the last game I rented was Golden Eye for the N64... Those were the days...

Also I loved the Turd as Origins logo I think it fits nicely. I also wonder how many extra sales Ea would of gotten if they had released their titles on steam still. I'm guessing they cut out steam so they wouldn't have to take the expected price cut on their titles. Personally I think they lose millions of sales for it. As I haven't bought new EA title since they stopped publishing on steam.

 

[geldonyetich]

In general I agree with what Jim's saying here, but I do think he might have tread right over the line of truth and justice and into unsubstantiated grandstanding land when he suggested that used games, piracy, and so are on only imaginary beasts who do not impact game company's bottom lines.

Because, logically speaking, of course they do, they were never debunked (at least, not universally) and there actually seems to be a lot of factual support for the idea that those factors do indeed force their hands somewhat. Reasonably speaking, it's not all that hard to understand why people circumventing having to buy copies of your game will, in fact, impact your profit margin! When box prices are that unreliable, I think it's not all that evil of Scrooge McDuck to resort to alternate strategies to actually get paid for what they make, though it's a pity he's so inept and keeps doing it in ways that offend paying customers.

That said, I'm not going whole-hog on EA's side on this matter, either. Lets face it, rarely ever is the truth found on one side or another, but usually in the middle, the keyword we're looking for here is compromise, and I don't think we're going to see much compromise as long as game companies are addicted to this idea of $60 games where retailers net $2 per sale. That's pants-on-head retarded... and it also disagrees with some other things I've heard on the matter [http://jacehallshow.com/blog/20110504/how-video-game-money-is-split-where-your-60-bucks-goes/], you might not want to take a retailer's word for it, either. But the point here is that, unless a line of mutual satisfaction between game developer, distributor, and gamer can be found somehow, somebody's going to be dissatisfied with where the money is going.

It may not be possible to find this magic compromise, of course. Complicating factors somewhat, Gamestop is probably on its way out, because games were always digital and what's changed is we don't require a brick and mortar outlet anymore now that nearly everyone who is a gamer also has a broadband connection, completely circumventing the need for discs, cartridges, or what-have-you. Why even leave the home anymore? How much PC gaming shelf can you even find in GameStop these days and, of that shelf, how many of those games are just a box containing an online activation code? When the rest of the platforms follow suit, I'm not sure what GameStop will even have to sell anymore. Maybe the hardware, if you're hung up on seeing it in a store before you mail order it.

 

[TheUnbeholden]

I think there is some fairness in arguing that the absence of used games doesn't harm a platform, since PC is doing fine without it; however, removing used games from consoles merely reinforces the trend of "consoles as shit PCs", and all that sentiment entails.

Ultimately, what the Steam sales are competiting with, isn't even just GoG and self-publishing, but also... piracy.

Steam might have DRM, but it's nor unbreakable. All Steam games can be pirated, and Steam has to make up prices with the knowledge that they are depending on the benevolence of gamers who choose to pay.

Consoles don't have that. With their physical jailbreaking ending warranty and ruining online access, they have managed to kill piracy, so they can ask fr games whatever the hell they want.

Except the issue of piracy is miniscule, so its like fighting a ant with a bulldozer. Consoles aren't unbreakable, I had a friend who modded his ages ago. All he had to do is not connect it online after the first time. If he wants to play xbox live arcade he can just use my xbox or his friends.

It's like Jim said, its publishers theorizing about non-existent dragons. Wanting to dominate the market by removing our freedoms. Issue of piracy has largely been debunked, what little of it is going is by people doing it because they can't get hold of the game in their country because its so old its not sold anymore or a game that was banned in the country,
or by people who would not have payed for it to begin with because of being tight asses. Regardless aggressive DRM that punishes consumers is not the way to go.

I think there is some fairness in arguing that the absence of used games doesn't harm a platform, since PC is doing fine without it; however, removing used games from consoles merely reinforces the trend of "consoles as shit PCs", and all that sentiment entails.

Removing used games from consoles does not make "consoles as shit as PC's".. because PC's have many many advantages.
It removes the ONE advantage consoles have over PC's besides the 'cooperative, social aspect of playing on a couch with friends'. Which is not having to have online access & not having to wait while you install games.

It's not harming PC's much because we have many different online stores to choose from on the PC (where as thats not the case on Xbox who will have one dominating authority that blocks your games and demands payment). We have a economical system based on competitiveness which means customers can get price cuts, special offers, one time only sales/offers, all kinds of cross promotion and other good stuff (Steam, GoG, DotEmu, GamersGate and Desura for indie games).
Essentially Xbox is doing what Origin does on the PC, all of the games you get on Origin are made by EA alot of which you can't get elsewhere so they try to use that against you. Theres no price cuts eventhough the publisher saves money by distributing online
(no shipping or manfucturing costs) and they don't even give discount sales or any price cuts for older games.
They are trying to dominate you like how Xbox is going to try now.

Jim pretty much covered this in his video so all you're doing is trying to polish a turd. EA should replace their company logo with a turd and Microsoft should replace its with a crown and a bloody knife in the background, symbolizing their desire to dominate without wanting to compete.

 

[DragonDai]

Hey look! The giant publishers and console makers are shooting themselves in the foot! Again!

Seriously, Jim, Thank God for You, and thank God for the eventual console crash of 2014/2015/2016. Gana make PC gaming the best/only option in town. And that's a great thing.

 

[Cliche]

Far more convincing argument...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G_f8YBy39M#!

He keeps saying "games industry, games industry", but he never mentions that most of the revenue of new game sales goes to publishers.

I support game studios and developers, but I do not care about publishers in the slightest.

Game devs should follow valve's lead, and push for self-publishing through digital distribution.

 

[vid87]

What exactly happened to our policy on monopolies anyway? Isn't total domination of a market and elimination of competition something within government's power to step in and fix? I mean, the last time I remember an actual instance of monopoly-busting in the modern era was, in fact, Bill Gates and Microsoft.

 

[Do4600]

Bobby Kotick is a piece of crap, he out right said he'd raise the price on SIXTY DOLLAR GAMES?
Is he freaking high?

I'd be okay (not happy, mind you, just okay) with the standard price of a new released video game raising to $70 (or +$10 from current in whatever currency you use), if....

if
IF
IF
IF
IF
IF
IF!!!!!

We could stop all this pre-order bonus DLC and Day 1 DLC bullshit. Of course that's not going to happen, publishers will want to double-dip in any case and nothing can stop them, so at $60 it fucking stays!

To be fair games have cost about $50 US since the mid-ninties. I found a recipt in one of my books recently being used as a book mark for Fallout 2. It cost $49.99 US at the local computer retailer in 1998. Adjusted for inflation it would cost $71.33 US now. So really games have gotten cheaper overall.

 

[biron_w]

Something people seem to be missing about used game sales is risk mitigation. Aside from colossal fuckups on the order of Colonial Marines, I can get a decent chunk of my money back if a game isn't what I wanted, or is really good but just lacks replay value.

This means I'm more willing to actually pay 60$, or even pre-order games that I'm not 100% sure are actually worth 60$. If there's no used game sales, then there's an extremely limited number of titles I'll be willing to buy for 60$, and even fewer I'll be willing to buy at launch.

That's exactly my opinion on this.
I rarely buy used games. But I nearly always trade in a used game when I buy a new game. This makes a game cheaper for me to buy and it means I can buy more new games every year.
If I couldn't trade in then i'd simply buy less games at launch and i'd wait for most games to come down in price.
So by eliminating used games publishers would be getting LESS money from me,not MORE money.

I also completely agree with Jim. I don't think games would suddenly come down in price if the used game market was killed. Publishers have proved time and again that they are far too greedy.

 

[hermes]

I disagree with the industry vilification of consumers in the name of stopping the "evil used games" market, but that doesn't mean I am willing to consider gamestop as the poor victims of this story. I don't know how it works in UK, but in the US, retailers take a lot more than 3% of new games sales, in fact, the number is close to over 15% on new games (with some risk associated with not bought units); and, in the case of used games, they net about 100% of the marked price of the sale.

Console manufacturers and publishers go after the consumers because they don't have the balls to go after the retailers, but they are the real "guilty" of this scenario, and while I have no sympathy for some of the policies they created, I won't cry for gamestop, either.

 

[gridsleep]

Next target they'll center on is the game critics.

 

[WontonTiger]

Far more convincing argument...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G_f8YBy39M#!

He keeps saying "games industry, games industry", but he never mentions that most of the revenue of new game sales goes to publishers.

I support game studios and developers, but I do not care about publishers in the slightest.

Game devs should follow valve's lead, and push for self-publishing through digital distribution.

This video is just annoying. The guy omits as much information as he includes, and makes sweeping generalizations and groupings that are not appropriate. If devs went direct, and removed the publisher, there would be price reductions, and more competition.

The guys over at PA were hinting that the whole model is broken, and all this video did was focus on one part of that broken system, and then reincorporate that broken component, into the context of the broken system.

 

[gyroscopeboy]

I can't even remember the last game I rented...

Some people just can't seem to understand that there will always be more people with less money.

I've pretty much been exclusively renting over 2-3 days for the last 2 years, because the games are just that short.

The last game I will be buying is the new GTA.