Jimquisition: Why The PS4 Is Kicking Xbox One's Arse

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TomWiley

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Jul 20, 2012
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How is the PS4 kicking Xbox One's arse? I just checked the sales for last month out of interest. Microsoft moved 260,000 consoles and Sony moved roughly 287,000. That's not even a 10 percent difference. Now factor in that Sony has released their system in more countries and cost considerable less, it's not even certain that Sony's gained more profit.

I know starting fanboy wars is fun and all but let's not exaggerate things here.
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

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Sep 10, 2008
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DragonDai said:
Deathlyphil said:
BL-4CT said:
Is not a matter from "better than", is more like "less wrong", both consoles still doesn't have backward compatibility.
You do realise just how difficult backwards compatibility between completely different hardware is right? The only way to get it to function properly is to have previous gen hardware in the same box. That means buying two consoles in one, and bumping up the price quite a bit.
I generally just lurk, but I had to comment on this. And all I can say is PC! My PC with all new parts when it was bought 2 years ago runs games that are just now coming out at max settings at 1080p resolution with 60+ FPS, while also playing games from 1995 with little to no hassle (usually no hassle, as in, I install them, they work), and games even older than that with some to little hassle (dosbox is about as "hassle-full" as it gets and really, once you've take the 10-30 mins to figure out how it works the first time you use it, it's never a hassle after that).

So yeah. The only reason the consoles don't have backwards compatibility is because the people making the consoles don't want you to have it. It's as simple as that.
As a fellow PC gamer I'm going to put a massive CITATION NEEDED on your post.

Comparing a PC emulating or using DOSbox to the PS3's CELL processor is a fallacy, most PC emulation is bruteforcing the simulation of the entire console's hardware. This is the main reason why the few (if any) 360 and PS3 emulators require monster specs, combined this with the PC for the most part remaining constant and only increasing in power (and going X86 which isn't much compared to the shift that the consoles did going from 7th to 8th generation) while any sort of backwards compatible PS4 would require a CELL processor if not an entire PS3 inside the new console. Which is what they did to produce the BC PS2.
 

Drummodino

Can't Stop the Bop
Jan 2, 2011
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Thanatos2k said:
This is something I call one of the biggest paradoxes in gaming. Microsoft should be doing everything in their power to promote the PC ecosystem as superior. Why? Because Microsoft is a company that makes the majority of its money making Operating Systems for PCs.

Microsoft should be doing everything they can to promote the PC as a superior gaming platform over consoles. The prevalence of gaming available exclusively for the Windows platform is one of the main reasons why Windows achieved its monopoly. Now that market share erodes daily over to Apple and Linux as Microsoft flounders in its support for PC gaming, offering half baked applications (Games For Windows Live, lol) and empty platitudes about how they "care" about PC gaming as they barely release anything there. Or if they do, it's shoddy PC ports.

It makes no sense for Microsoft to be in the gaming space. They are actively competing with themselves, and screwing their company over the long term. Gaming makes up a very small fraction of Microsoft's overall revenues, most of which come from Windows and enterprise suites for Windows. Fanboys rage whenever you say that Microsoft should be selling the Xbox division but any serious thought about the topic indicates it's something that must be done.
Microsoft is in the gaming industry with Xbox because they make money from every game that gets sold for it. Just think about that - every game that's sold on an Xbox platform. They do not get anything for every PC game that is bought unless it was made by one of their studios.

Microsoft would much rather people were on Xbox and people just used PC for everything else. Let's face it - the vast majority of people who own an Xbox also own a PC with Windows. So they still get the sale of the OS, they will still sell things like Office. The only games Microsoft would prefer be on PC are free to play games and MMOs - they wouldn't make money off free to play titles and they don't want to have to provide the infrastructure for something like WoW.
 

Caiphus

Social Office Corridor
Mar 31, 2010
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TomWiley said:
How is the PS4 kicking Xbox One's arse? I just checked the sales for last month out of interest. Microsoft moved 260,000 consoles and Sony moved roughly 287,000. That's not even a 10 percent difference. Now factor in that Sony has released their system in more countries and cost considerable less, it's not even certain that Sony's gained more profit.

I know starting fanboy wars is fun and all but let's not exaggerate things here.
That would be the NPD statistic which, I believe, only measures sales in the US (it may include Canada, I'm not sure).

Vgchartz measures global sales:

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/251540/ps4-vs-xbox-onevgchartz-gap-chartsfebruary-2014-update/

Which shows that the PS4 sold ~670,000 more consoles worldwide. Less impressive, perhaps, when you consider the Japanese launch would have made up roughly half that difference. Either way, it's still more than 10%.
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

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Sep 10, 2008
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TomWiley said:
How is the PS4 kicking Xbox One's arse? I just checked the sales for last month out of interest. Microsoft moved 260,000 consoles and Sony moved roughly 287,000. That's not even a 10 percent difference. Now factor in that Sony has released their system in more countries and cost considerable less, it's not even certain that Sony's gained more profit.

I know starting fanboy wars is fun and all but let's not exaggerate things here.
And another even bigger CITATION NEEDED on this one as well folks!

By any chance is this for America only? Because last month Sony released the PS4 in Japan, generating over 300,000 sales in the first two days alone.

There is something to be said about pushing your console out in order to get a large install base in order to get the real money earners as well as (I'm still assuming this is American sales figures we are talking about) beating your opposition in their home country and stronghold of the last generation is something to be amazed about.

It is true that Sony cast its net wide and far in order to achieve this and may not be generating much of a profit on the sale of each console when considering shipping etc, but the Xbone's rather heavy albatross around its neck called Kinect and its associated R&D costs and production isn't doing it any favours either.

And finally as the PS3 showed us its an uphill battle to gain ground against an already entrenched opponent, especially with a higher price point for the most part.
 

Caiphus

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Mar 31, 2010
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daxterx2005 said:
I thought Sony was still in the red...?
They certainly still are having trouble, yes:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-06/sony-forecasts-annual-loss-as-hirai-turnaround-stalls-on-tvs.html

And news from today:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-17/sony-corp-said-to-begin-cutting-jobs-at-entertainment-division.html
 

Nimzabaat

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Feb 1, 2010
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TomWiley said:
How is the PS4 kicking Xbox One's arse? I just checked the sales for last month out of interest. Microsoft moved 260,000 consoles and Sony moved roughly 287,000. That's not even a 10 percent difference. Now factor in that Sony has released their system in more countries and cost considerable less, it's not even certain that Sony's gained more profit.

I know starting fanboy wars is fun and all but let's not exaggerate things here.
Well that's Jim Shil-er-Stirling for you. Only a 7k difference and PS4 is available in 40 more markets than the XB1 is. That's actually kind of pathetic when you think about it.

You have to remember that this is an entertainment website only. This is the last place one should look for informed reporting :)
 

Ed130 The Vanguard

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Sep 10, 2008
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Nimzabaat said:
TomWiley said:
How is the PS4 kicking Xbox One's arse? I just checked the sales for last month out of interest. Microsoft moved 260,000 consoles and Sony moved roughly 287,000. That's not even a 10 percent difference. Now factor in that Sony has released their system in more countries and cost considerable less, it's not even certain that Sony's gained more profit.

I know starting fanboy wars is fun and all but let's not exaggerate things here.
Well that's Jim Shil-er-Stirling for you. Only a 7k difference and PS4 is available in 40 more markets than the XB1 is. That's actually kind of pathetic when you think about it.

You have to remember that this is an entertainment website only. This is the last place one should look for informed reporting :)
Your own advice should go double for internet forums when posters stick up numbers without providing a source.

Mainly because [user]TomWiley[/user]'s number seem to be mysteriously absent of Sony's 300,000 PS4's sold in Japan for the last week of February.

http://www.24-7gamer.com/ps4-japan-sales/

Personally I believe those numbers he put up were for US only, it makes much more sense then. But still, achieveving higher sales numbers in the former MS stronghold of the last generation isn't a good sign for Microsoft.
 

Caiphus

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Mar 31, 2010
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Nimzabaat said:
This is the last place one should look for informed reporting :)
As opposed to you, who saw one unsourced forum post and immediately went "Oh well! Guess Jim must have been wrong then. What a hack."
 

Nimzabaat

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Caiphus said:
Nimzabaat said:
This is the last place one should look for informed reporting :)
As opposed to you, who saw one unsourced forum post and immediately went "Oh well! Guess Jim must have been wrong then. What a hack."
Nimzabaat said:
OT: So the PS4 barely outsold the Xbox One in february and it's being called a win? With PS4 available in 53 markets and Xbox One available in 13 and Sony only barely outsold them? With MS actually making more money in Feb because the Xbox costs more? That actually looks really bad for Sony. It'll be very interesting to see what happens when PS4 and Xbox have the same availability.

http://time.com/#27049/the-playstation-4-won-february-but-by-a-lot-less-than-it-did-in-january/

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2454972,00.asp

EDIT: Okay ninja'd. But that's piss poor garm-jurnalizm if you ask me. Sony is beating MS because they're available in 40 more markets. So even if MS just doubles the amount of markets they sell to, they win, hands down. Now that's something to think about.
Yeah that was pretty much the first thing I put into this post Facts. Weird eh?
 

Caiphus

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Mar 31, 2010
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Nimzabaat said:
Fine, the fact remains that my and Ed130's posts immediately below the one you quoted show that the PS4 actually sold in the region of double the Xbox One during February. Both of your articles use NPD figures, as did Tomwiley's post. Those figures only cover America and (possibly) Canada.

So I don't really take an issue with you being incorrect. Calling Jim a shill, or a "piss poor garm jurnalist" when you haven't actually fully researched the matter, though? Yeah. Facts.
 

WeepingAngels

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Kameburger said:
I'm currently living in Japan and literally were it not for the fact that I work in the Gaming industry, I probably wouldn't know the Xbox one was even out. Aside from the occasional article in Famitsu (the more popular Japanese gaming magazine), there are no advertisements, no signs in stores, no signs for pre-orders, no upcoming titles. Sony even released PS4 late here despite Japan being its "domestic" market. I live in a country where games are literally everywhere, and yet the Xbox one doesn't exist. I've had the occasional conversation about Titan Fall at work, but everyone agrees that they really want to play it but not enough to find an Xbox.
I've read that the PS4 isn't selling well in Japan either.

Apparently even the Wii U had a better launch.

http://wiiudaily.com/2014/03/wii-u-ps4-japan-launch-sales/

First 3 Weeks, Wii U = 557,901

First 3 Weeks, PS4 = 410,083

I don't think I would be bragging about how well the PS4 is doing in Japan.
 

Kameburger

Turtle king
Apr 7, 2012
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WeepingAngels said:
I've read that the PS4 isn't selling well in Japan either.
Yeah but that's to be expected. I think Japan is a bit more used to phasing out its old systems, and having a gradual transition from one gen to the next. You see a lot more cases in Japan of games selling systems in comparison to the US. Monster Hunter for the PSP, Blue dragon for Xbox 360, Hatsune Miku for the Vita, Monster Hunter again for the 3DS. Once the games start rolling in from the Japanese developers sales will probably level out a bit. February is also a pretty harsh release time for things like games in Japan. Schools start up in April, the Financial year starts in April, and while February is still a break for school kids, its the break where most parents are kicking their kids to hit the books and not splurge on Video games. I would say around summer it should probably pick up a bit more. People in Japan usually get a half year bonus around June, and when it starts to heat up people are gonna want to stay inside.

WeepingAngels said:
I've read that the PS4 isn't selling well in Japan either.

Apparently even the Wii U had a better launch.

http://wiiudaily.com/2014/03/wii-u-ps4-japan-launch-sales/

First 3 Weeks, Wii U = 557,901

First 3 Weeks, PS4 = 410,083

I don't think I would be bragging about how well the PS4 is doing in Japan.
Sorry I should have waited for you to finish editing your post. While your point is valid, I think the initial launch has not been and isn't Sony's game. Only PS2 was able to launch very strong, and considering that even in home consoles digital distribution along with revenue streams more focused on DLC rather then one off package purchases like they have been in the past, the general trend has shown that smaller amounts of high paying users account for a lot more of the total revenue. This means that a relatively slow launch in one country means almost literally nothing in today's market.

As for your last comment... for christ sake... who's bragging? I was merely remarking on the surprisingly small presence of Xbox in Japan. But why would you choose that particular word order? Did my somewhat optimistic lean toward Sony bother you so much that you had to choose your words carefully to make your point sound as stuck up as possible?
 

TaintedSaint

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Mar 16, 2011
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Aardvaarkman said:
thespyisdead said:
after all the drm and shit MS tried to push on the xbone, i am actually happy the system is failing! and this is coming from someone who used to swear by Xbox360
The Xbone is lagging slightly behind the PS4 in sales. I'd hardly call that "failing."

It's not like the market can't have more than one successful platform. For one to succeed, the other doesn't have to fail. Last generation, all three major consoles were successful. I think the only likely failure this time around will be Nintendo.
PS4 is out selling xbone 2 to 1 at the moment that is not slight in anyway shape or form.
 

Xyebane

Disembodied Floating Skull
Feb 28, 2009
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Olas said:
You're joking right? Jim is the lord of all things true and righteous, his word is objective scientific truth by the very nature of it coming from Jim Sterling. Perhaps in the future you could be more respectful and appreciative of what Jim does for us.
Science ain't about your pseudo-religious idol worshiping. It's time to school you about how wrong Mr. Stirling is.

"Right now though, the Playstation 4 is killing it on the console scene and it deserves to come out on top as a result. That's just well a scientific fact."

While current sales trends do lend support that the PS4 is outselling the Xbone, the term 'killing it' lacks any quantification and further more is not previously or else where defined. Additionally, it cannot be used in a literal form as neither console is alive and capable of dying nor capable of killing anything directly (unless there is some fault which causes fires or some such that I have never heard of, which should probably be extrapolated upon if true). Thus this statement conveys no information to the viewer about how much the Playstation 4 is out competing the Xbone, only that it is. Very unscientific Jim. Furthermore the statement it deserves to come out on top is a value judgement and statement of opinion. The very language used prevents it from being a scientific fact. If you were to be generous to Mr. Stirling, and were to replace "deserves" with "will" or "has a high probability", both of these terms as well as Mr. Stirlings statement overall (not to take him out of context) imply causality. There is simply no evidence to suggest causality in anything Mr. Stirling has stated in the video.

To demonstrate causality, the best way would be to formalize the hypothesis and perform an experiment. In such a scenario, the hypothesis that supporting Indy developers and Indy content leads to successful console platforms seems appropriate given the context of the rest of the clip. A simple experiment would be to change the Indy game policies of Xbone, PS4, Wii U and Steam and measure how they impact sales. If PS4 strategy of picking only the best Indy games results in a significant increase in all consoles sales vs other strategies, than indeed we have scientifically demonstrated that Mr. Stirling's opinion was correct. However this hasn't been done. Additionally, if we do not observe significant results for all consoles, then it is unlikely that this is the determining factor for a game consoles success. Additionally, if we see a significant increase, but not a complete reversal of Xbone and PS4 sales data when their Indy developer policies are reversed, we can conclude that while a contributing factor, it is not the sole factor for a consoles success. This approach could be applied further, by changing MS and Sonys entire or partial business strategy (which ever you argue is most significant) in a similar method as above.

However such an experiment is highly unlikely to happen as we can't control companies policies for experimentation. A more plausible way to explore this statement would be to look at sales data and perform some statistical analysis to find correlations. For example, we could see if number of Indy titles available correlates with console sales or if number of Indy sales correlates with console sales. In this regard however, it is important to remember that correlation does not imply causality. An equally plausible explanation for such correlations is that the more popular a console is the more games are sold on it, including indy games. Therefore, let me restate that correlation does NOT imply causality. Even if such information was available (and I'm sure that MS and Sony both do look at such data) it cannot be stated as a scientific fact using such correlations as evidence.

There you go. Mr. Stirling has just demonstrated how wrong he can be with such a lingual faux pas ironically in an episode where he spends the end continuously repeating how he is right.

Sorry Mr. Stirling, but you are WRONG. (Although your opinion throughout the rest of the clip maybe correct).
 

Sarge034

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Feb 24, 2011
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Jimothy Sterling said:
But, but, but... I agree with you. I think you are right, you say I'm wrong, but you say you are right.


OT- I think Sony is the mute leading the blind so to speak. All of the systems have substantial drawbacks but the PS4 is just less shit at the moment. Hopefully MS does pull it's head out of its' ass because, admittedly, I do have a biased preference for the Xbox.
 

Willstown

Borderline Crazy Cat Man
Nov 20, 2013
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Jim, the new lightning rig is giving you a halo like glow of inner radiance. That.. or it's a little too bright. I like to think the former.
 

Deathlyphil

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DragonDai said:
Deathlyphil said:
BL-4CT said:
You do realise just how difficult backwards compatibility between completely different hardware is right? The only way to get it to function properly is to have previous gen hardware in the same box. That means buying two consoles in one, and bumping up the price quite a bit.
I generally just lurk, but I had to comment on this. And all I can say is PC! My PC with all new parts when it was bought 2 years ago runs games that are just now coming out at max settings at 1080p resolution with 60+ FPS, while also playing games from 1995 with little to no hassle (usually no hassle, as in, I install them, they work), and games even older than that with some to little hassle (dosbox is about as "hassle-full" as it gets and really, once you've take the 10-30 mins to figure out how it works the first time you use it, it's never a hassle after that).

So yeah. The only reason the consoles don't have backwards compatibility is because the people making the consoles don't want you to have it. It's as simple as that.
It's definitely not as simple as that.

PCs have been running the same processor type (x86) since the early 90s, possibly before. We had the 186 through to the 486, then Pentium 1 (586), and even the latest Pentiums (and AMD chips) are still using the same core architecture. That, plus a few emulators for software that isn't used any more (DOSbox mainly) is why you can play older PC games on your newer PC.

Consoles, on the other hand, have a tendency to use their own chips, or what ever is cheapest/fastest/different enough to make them stand out. It is not as simple as writing a few lines of code, or configuring a few settings. Games will be expecting chipset features that either don't exist, or have changed their function over the years.

Think of it this way. In order to emulate a PS3 game on a PS4, it would be the equivalent of trying to give a speech in English that was written in Ancient Sumerian on the fly, without loosing any of the original meaning and intent of the speech. Oh, and you aren't allowed to pause and look up things, and the first time you saw this speech was just before you started. It has to be a seamless translation. Think you can handle that?

~tl;dr~

It's a hardware issue, not a software issue. Change all the settings you wish, but it won't make a difference.